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auction house = too efficient an economy = no auction house!
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭generalmyrick wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.
A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.
You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?
Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.
At least, that's how I understand it.
This conspiracy theory again.
The bidding isn't fixed. The bids are hilariously high. If you really want a Rawl'kha trader, you just need to get your 499 buddies together and sell an absolute metric **** ton of stuff in another kiosk before you trade up. There's no conspiracy here, just don't expect that they're only spending the 10k minimum on a spot and then pocketing the rest of the cash, that doesn't happen.
i have personally overheard a convo between guild leaders.
guild leader A was trying to sell the spot to guild leader B after his attempt to flip the grahtwood spot failed and it was wednesday and he needed to move it before his losses were too high.
And they just had this conversation, openly, in zone, for all to hear, because they're a supersecret cabal that communicates only in /z... right.
in a pvp group chat...
overheard implies sound.
why must some of you be so...obtuse.
Some conspiracy you stumbled onto there.0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game
The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.
A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.
You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?
Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.
At least, that's how I understand it.
This conspiracy theory again.
The bidding isn't fixed. The bids are hilariously high. If you really want a Rawl'kha trader, you just need to get your 499 buddies together and sell an absolute metric **** ton of stuff in another kiosk before you trade up. There's no conspiracy here, just don't expect that they're only spending the 10k minimum on a spot and then pocketing the rest of the cash, that doesn't happen.
Yeah, I ain't playing this game to get a degree in economics, but it still seems like this system makes it hard for new people to break through the ceiling.
I also don't play to enjoy Shopping Simulator: Tamriel Edition; call it being lazy if you want, but that's not my idea of fun. I'm in favor of a centralized trading house because it just seems easier. Give us a way to search all traders from the bank or something. Give non-guild players a place to post their items, and just hike the taxes to offset the convenience. Whatever. Buying valuables at reasonable prices is a chore, and joining guilds just to sell and leave makes me feel like a donkey-hole. I don't shop in the most inconvenient possible way in real life, so why would I do it in a game?
You don't need a degree in economics to participate. You just need to keep an eye on zone, and look for trade guilds who are looking for new members. Because, there's one truth about trade guilds in ESO: They need active sellers. If you're not there, you're not showing up, you're not moving product, they need someone who is. The more desirable the slot, the more pressure that's on the guild to perform. They are always looking for new members.
You might want a degree before you start suggesting sweeping changes to the current system, however. That does require a bit more thought.0 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been following the AH threads for awhile, the reactions are polar opposites for the majority. I can see a compromise system though.
Guild Traders remain unchanged but each zone has a NPC Zone Trader added that consolidates a the guild traders of that zone. A player would gain the benefit of searching one Trader in a zone for all items listed in that zone. In order for this to work a few things need to be done for this special zone trader.
1) API blocked - No addons would be able to bring them into a single addon search. Is meant to be used in game as is.
2) A Surcharge for a purchase added on top of current charges. The Surcharge is removes the gold from the game and is not split with any seller or sellers guild. Say around 2.5% to 5% of the selling price, ZOS would determine at what amount they deem right to add this service.
3) This system would also not list the sellers name nor the guild trader it is on. You either purchase it or go locate is on your own. You at least know at that instant it was located within that zone for sell.
4) Optionally 5 slots could be granted to to each PC to list on any zone trader. This would be a total of 5 slots not 5 for each zone. Is meant to still encourage joining a guild but still gives an option to every player to be able to sell to other players. You would still pay all the fees as well, just the extra amount that would have gone to a guild is removed from the game. Thus ZOS has a incentive to add this feature.
No one system is absolutely perfect. I do think this is a good compromise, something that has always been missing in these threads.1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Been following the AH threads for awhile, the reactions are polar opposites for the majority. I can see a compromise system though.
Guild Traders remain unchanged but each zone has a NPC Zone Trader added that consolidates a the guild traders of that zone. A player would gain the benefit of searching one Trader in a zone for all items listed in that zone. In order for this to work a few things need to be done for this special zone trader.
1) API blocked - No addons would be able to bring them into a single addon search. Is meant to be used in game as is.
2) A Surcharge for a purchase added on top of current charges. The Surcharge is removes the gold from the game and is not split with any seller or sellers guild. Say around 2.5% to 5% of the selling price, ZOS would determine at what amount they deem right to add this service.
3) This system would also not list the sellers name nor the guild trader it is on. You either purchase it or go locate is on your own. You at least know at that instant it was located within that zone for sell.
4) Optionally 5 slots could be granted to to each PC to list on any zone trader. This would be a total of 5 slots not 5 for each zone. Is meant to still encourage joining a guild but still gives an option to every player to be able to sell to other players. You would still pay all the fees as well, just the extra amount that would have gone to a guild is removed from the game. Thus ZOS has a incentive to add this feature.
No one system is absolutely perfect. I do think this is a good compromise, something that has always been missing in these threads.
I've been arguing for such an enhancement to the present system for a very long time. For me, replacing the guild trader system with an auction house is better than leaving the present system alone but it is by no means my preferred option.
I would have a single NPC trader in the main city trading locations, with anyone able to list a very small number of items at an inflated commission to be divided between the guilds trading in that location. It would enable casual sellers who don't have enough stuff to hold down a slot in a trading guild to sell their items at no loss to trading guilds, as well as catering for those sellers whose guilds either don't trade or else haven't won a trader for that week, along with those who prefer not to join guilds (or don't have spare guild slots for trading guilds if they're fully guilded for PvP, roleplay, trials etc). It would cut down on trade spamming in zone chat which wouldn't be a bad thing.
I'd take the idea further and introduce a quest for new characters to use the NPC trader in order to familiarise them with the trading system and on completion of which they would be able to move on to trading guilds if they so wished. Trading guilds would thus benefit from both the commission and recruitment potential.
Add in a proper search function and the guild trader system would be fully functional for all, at least on PC. The problem still remains of needing to overhaul the base trading system across the platforms so that console players are not disadvantaged by their inability to use addons - without which frankly most PC traders would be clamoring for change.1 -
Grimm13✭✭✭✭✭
✭Been following the AH threads for awhile, the reactions are polar opposites for the majority. I can see a compromise system though.
Guild Traders remain unchanged but each zone has a NPC Zone Trader added that consolidates a the guild traders of that zone. A player would gain the benefit of searching one Trader in a zone for all items listed in that zone. In order for this to work a few things need to be done for this special zone trader.
1) API blocked - No addons would be able to bring them into a single addon search. Is meant to be used in game as is.
2) A Surcharge for a purchase added on top of current charges. The Surcharge is removes the gold from the game and is not split with any seller or sellers guild. Say around 2.5% to 5% of the selling price, ZOS would determine at what amount they deem right to add this service.
3) This system would also not list the sellers name nor the guild trader it is on. You either purchase it or go locate is on your own. You at least know at that instant it was located within that zone for sell.
4) Optionally 5 slots could be granted to to each PC to list on any zone trader. This would be a total of 5 slots not 5 for each zone. Is meant to still encourage joining a guild but still gives an option to every player to be able to sell to other players. You would still pay all the fees as well, just the extra amount that would have gone to a guild is removed from the game. Thus ZOS has a incentive to add this feature.
No one system is absolutely perfect. I do think this is a good compromise, something that has always been missing in these threads.
I've been arguing for such an enhancement to the present system for a very long time. For me, replacing the guild trader system with an auction house is better than leaving the present system alone but it is by no means my preferred option.
I would have a single NPC trader in the main city trading locations, with anyone able to list a very small number of items at an inflated commission to be divided between the guilds trading in that location. It would enable casual sellers who don't have enough stuff to hold down a slot in a trading guild to sell their items at no loss to trading guilds, as well as catering for those sellers whose guilds either don't trade or else haven't won a trader for that week, along with those who prefer not to join guilds (or don't have spare guild slots for trading guilds if they're fully guilded for PvP, roleplay, trials etc). It would cut down on trade spamming in zone chat which wouldn't be a bad thing.
I'd take the idea further and introduce a quest for new characters to use the NPC trader in order to familiarize them with the trading system and on completion of which they would be able to move on to trading guilds if they so wished. Trading guilds would thus benefit from both the commission and recruitment potential.
Add in a proper search function and the guild trader system would be fully functional for all, at least on PC. The problem still remains of needing to overhaul the base trading system across the platforms so that console players are not disadvantaged by their inability to use addons - without which frankly most PC traders would be clamoring for change.
I think the proposal I made would benefit all platforms, granting consoles a quicker narrowing search if they like or pay a small premium to have a one stop in the zone to buy at.
Also no existing addons would be taken away but would stop a new one to use that included the zone trader.
I did forget that a search function needs to be added to all traders, with a key word search function capability.
EDIT: While nice that you want to make it so sells could be routed through to a guild. I think it complicates things for ZOS in programing. I was looking for an approach that ZOS gets a added benefits, so they are encouraged to make the change. Your approach does not do that.
The 5 slots per PC I propose that could be listed on a zone trader, comes close to what you had proposed. By limiting to the new zone traders, there is no new code needed for the existing traders. Just the ability for the zone trader to instant search all the traders in the zone.
It is a hard balance to update the current system to improve without getting it too far towards the polar end.
Edited by Grimm13 on April 29, 2018 10:34PM0 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Jewellery crafting was also never supposed to happen... Also I remember abundant amount of threads "make 2 handed weapon count as 2 set pcs" - oh and look what we have in new update.. hmm...
But anyway - it doesn't need to be am auction house where there are actual "auctions" going on. Just a "trading" house so it would work kind-of like a steam market.
You post an item, with a price and wait... Or if you want to buy something you search for it. Similar to a current trading guild - vendor system - except it should have some limitations (like selling & buying limited number of items per week or something like that - to keep current trading guilds relevant but offer something to smaller guilds & solo players to be an alternative to spamming zone chat with WTS xyz... because this it literally the worst trading system I have ever seen in a mmo...
ff14 has a market board, not an Auction house. You just list items and people buy it. No auctions. It uses a retainer system to limit when you can put stuff up (was suppose to limit rmt.... lol) And honestly I hated it. It was easy to manipulate the market by rmt, or by high end crafters. A ton of people would make thread after thread after thread, complaining about undercutting.
ff14 is gonna release an app for $5 a mnth to make it easier to list stuff on the MB with use of a bought currency. People are literally quitting the game over it.
It was hard to make gil from the MB unless you knew and watched the prices and kept up to date on what popular.
As for the zone chat stuff, though spammy, it is a non issue. Makes ESO lively. Like people actually talk. What they could do is make chat tabs, and let you customize them so you don't have to see zone chat.
I prefer how ESO does it, it limits rmt to a degree as you start to know what guild sells stuff with the best price, and i rather not see "pvp.c0m 10Kgold $2" like how bad i saw it in ff14
traveling is a non issue as you can zone jump free. Just let ppl have chat tabs, and turn off zone chat.
Traveling is an issue if most people can only be on for about 2 hours a day, you can only get to about 6-9 vendors in about 30 minutes of searching and zoning and alot longer with an older computer, this system does not favor buyers whatsoever.
where do you get that data from?
Does everything have to be backed by hard data? That was a reasonable assumption to make. (And before someone goes on about "what happens when people assume," I assume the sun will rise tomorrow, so get back to me when it doesn't and make your point then.)
Shopping around is basically this rotation:
Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Sprint -> Annoying interface -> Scroll, scroll -> Disappointment -> Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Repeat.
This is a waste of valuable game time, and woe betide the person who dares have slow internet or try to port into a zone so busy that they ctd.
the reason i raised the question is because i don't think it's a reasonable assumption.
You also didn't point out anything particularly unreasonable, so I noted the main reason travel-shopping is an issue for people who don't have a lot of time on their hands. It takes forever in a perfect world, and in an imperfect one, you might as well give up. Why else would the "hub spots" be so popular in the first place? Because they're convenient, you say? Wouldn't that mean all the other aspects of this system are inconvenient for the masses?
I don't see why you'd need a chart or spreadsheet to point that out; you could just as easily look around."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.2 -
Cpt_Teemo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Azuramoonstar wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Jewellery crafting was also never supposed to happen... Also I remember abundant amount of threads "make 2 handed weapon count as 2 set pcs" - oh and look what we have in new update.. hmm...
But anyway - it doesn't need to be am auction house where there are actual "auctions" going on. Just a "trading" house so it would work kind-of like a steam market.
You post an item, with a price and wait... Or if you want to buy something you search for it. Similar to a current trading guild - vendor system - except it should have some limitations (like selling & buying limited number of items per week or something like that - to keep current trading guilds relevant but offer something to smaller guilds & solo players to be an alternative to spamming zone chat with WTS xyz... because this it literally the worst trading system I have ever seen in a mmo...
ff14 has a market board, not an Auction house. You just list items and people buy it. No auctions. It uses a retainer system to limit when you can put stuff up (was suppose to limit rmt.... lol) And honestly I hated it. It was easy to manipulate the market by rmt, or by high end crafters. A ton of people would make thread after thread after thread, complaining about undercutting.
ff14 is gonna release an app for $5 a mnth to make it easier to list stuff on the MB with use of a bought currency. People are literally quitting the game over it.
It was hard to make gil from the MB unless you knew and watched the prices and kept up to date on what popular.
As for the zone chat stuff, though spammy, it is a non issue. Makes ESO lively. Like people actually talk. What they could do is make chat tabs, and let you customize them so you don't have to see zone chat.
I prefer how ESO does it, it limits rmt to a degree as you start to know what guild sells stuff with the best price, and i rather not see "pvp.c0m 10Kgold $2" like how bad i saw it in ff14 traveling is a non issue as you can zone jump free. Just let ppl have chat tabs, and turn off zone chat.
Traveling is an issue if most people can only be on for about 2 hours a day, you can only get to about 6-9 vendors in about 30 minutes of searching and zoning and alot longer with an older computer, this system does not favor buyers whatsoever.
i used to play mmo 2 hrs a day. traveling is a non issue. -_- once you know what trade vendor sells, what at what price (which is not hard to do in 2 hours) you just go to that vendor/trade guild.
I found this favors buying very easily as i'm not seeing 10K recipe prices for a low level recipe. It is what I do, and i've only been playing for 4-7 days. I'm on ps4 with a not so good internet.
i suggest playing ff14 for a week then tell me how good that system is -_-;;
Better than ESO tbh2 -
knaveofengland✭✭✭because this can be a bone of contention , i do think eso will make some changes over time , after all if a large portion of the player base is unhappy that can be loss of revenue for eso , so i can tell you they do look into these things, but does take time to sort out .
there are many more options , to name a few that would actually help , and of course there will be more trader locations with summerset , so that go a long way to help .
wish you all well
.
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jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Jewellery crafting was also never supposed to happen... Also I remember abundant amount of threads "make 2 handed weapon count as 2 set pcs" - oh and look what we have in new update.. hmm...
But anyway - it doesn't need to be am auction house where there are actual "auctions" going on. Just a "trading" house so it would work kind-of like a steam market.
You post an item, with a price and wait... Or if you want to buy something you search for it. Similar to a current trading guild - vendor system - except it should have some limitations (like selling & buying limited number of items per week or something like that - to keep current trading guilds relevant but offer something to smaller guilds & solo players to be an alternative to spamming zone chat with WTS xyz... because this it literally the worst trading system I have ever seen in a mmo...
ff14 has a market board, not an Auction house. You just list items and people buy it. No auctions. It uses a retainer system to limit when you can put stuff up (was suppose to limit rmt.... lol) And honestly I hated it. It was easy to manipulate the market by rmt, or by high end crafters. A ton of people would make thread after thread after thread, complaining about undercutting.
ff14 is gonna release an app for $5 a mnth to make it easier to list stuff on the MB with use of a bought currency. People are literally quitting the game over it.
It was hard to make gil from the MB unless you knew and watched the prices and kept up to date on what popular.
As for the zone chat stuff, though spammy, it is a non issue. Makes ESO lively. Like people actually talk. What they could do is make chat tabs, and let you customize them so you don't have to see zone chat.
I prefer how ESO does it, it limits rmt to a degree as you start to know what guild sells stuff with the best price, and i rather not see "pvp.c0m 10Kgold $2" like how bad i saw it in ff14 traveling is a non issue as you can zone jump free. Just let ppl have chat tabs, and turn off zone chat.
Traveling is an issue if most people can only be on for about 2 hours a day, you can only get to about 6-9 vendors in about 30 minutes of searching and zoning and alot longer with an older computer, this system does not favor buyers whatsoever.
where do you get that data from?
Does everything have to be backed by hard data? That was a reasonable assumption to make. (And before someone goes on about "what happens when people assume," I assume the sun will rise tomorrow, so get back to me when it doesn't and make your point then.)
Shopping around is basically this rotation:
Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Sprint -> Annoying interface -> Scroll, scroll -> Disappointment -> Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Repeat.
This is a waste of valuable game time, and woe betide the person who dares have slow internet or try to port into a zone so busy that they ctd.
the reason i raised the question is because i don't think it's a reasonable assumption.
You also didn't point out anything particularly unreasonable, so I noted the main reason travel-shopping is an issue for people who don't have a lot of time on their hands. It takes forever in a perfect world, and in an imperfect one, you might as well give up. Why else would the "hub spots" be so popular in the first place? Because they're convenient, you say? Wouldn't that mean all the other aspects of this system are inconvenient for the masses?
I don't see why you'd need a chart or spreadsheet to point that out; you could just as easily look around.
i notice, with some amusement, that you are trying, desperately, to spin the whole issue away from the substantive point i.e. 'most people only have two hours a day to play' still waiting for something to back that up.
it's easy to make wild claims to support whatever argument but it does nothing to enhance the debate.0 -
datgladiatah✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Anotherone773 wrote: »You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.
Fallacy. The only people who play “penny wars” are no-lifers or people who control 99% of the gold anyhow. Those people exist regardless of the trade system in place and I’ve seen enough manipulation from corrupt GMs and dummy kiosks in this game to rival the worst in MMORPGs.
Newsflash: not having centralized trade and demand-driven prices hurts only the little guy or medium-tier seller—they are never involved in the micromanaging and wars of dedicated financiers.
Where is this idea that there's no demand-driven pricing? If a trader doesn't have what you're looking for, you look somewhere else. If you notice it's rare, the natural instinct is to lower your expectations on a higher price. Eventually you'll take it wherever you can find it. This can go for mats too, sometimes you'll just want to buy what you can find and mat farmers can't fill up one singular trader with as much as you need, and traders in the area might not have anything at all. Taking note of what's easy to find and what's difficult to find is all I need to decide what my price range should be.
TTC and MM helps but MM only documents the guild traders I'm a part of. My collective values different things. It doesn't follow the same rules as other traders, and I generally find for example that 1. Set pieces are way overvalues in Rawlkha and 2. mats are undervalued in rawlkha in comparison because my guild traders gain most of their income through mats or motifs. That level of depth in the market doesn't exist in an AH. It's not nearly as realistic to depend on all sales at all times in one area so that all pricing is set at a consistent range at all points. It doesn't benefit buyers whatsoever.0 -
Androconium✭✭✭✭✭
✭blahablahbalah.
If a better system was available, someone else has already thought of a way to scam it.
WE DONT WANT WHAT WoW HAS. BUILD A FREAKIN BRIDGE - AND GET OVER IT.
on and
on and
on and
on AND
ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
gifts us an autionz housezx likez what didz havez in WoW.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> no. <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
go back to wow if it was so good there. Otherwise, STFU.
1 -
anitajoneb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Androconium wrote: »blahablahbalah.
.../...
go back to wow if it was so good there. Otherwise, STFU.
LoL ! You said it in a somewhat "raw" format, but I kind of agree with you : arguments revolving around "other MMOs do it better" are tiresome. ESO isn't your typical MMO, nor does it claim to be, nor does it aim to be. It's ESO, it's nothing else, it's different, it doesn't copy/paste, and that's why we love it.
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Motherball✭✭✭✭this system needs improvements but we dont need a central system. In a year, two max the economy would be so screwed up the only thing worth putting on the market will be high end rare items. And right now i can sell lockpicks, soul gems, and wheat on the market and turn a small profit on them. a central system comes into play and what is sellable on the market will be reduced to the top 25% of high end items.
It sounds like you are suggesting that demand for common items like wheat will just disappear because its easier to find, which is silly. If there is a demand there will be a supply, likely a much cheaper supply. Why would anyone pay 20g for wheat when they can get it for 6g? The current trade system doesnt allow players to even have the knowledge that wheat is on sale for 6g instead of 20g, which is not better imo.
That’d fix the economy right up, wouldn’t it? Careful what you wish for. Im sure a lot more players would participate in the economy if it wasnt so annoying. Why would you be happy to drive players away from the game?go back to wow if it was so good there.Edited by Motherball on April 30, 2018 3:02PM1 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭so, sounds like we are in agreement!
an auction house would make things too easy and efficient.
folks who against auction house even admit this with comments like, "guild system rewards hard work.""The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.2 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭generalmyrick wrote: »so, sounds like we are in agreement!
an auction house would make things too easy and efficient.
folks who against auction house even admit this with comments like, "guild system rewards hard work."
no, we aren't.1 -
wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Jewellery crafting was also never supposed to happen... Also I remember abundant amount of threads "make 2 handed weapon count as 2 set pcs" - oh and look what we have in new update.. hmm...
But anyway - it doesn't need to be am auction house where there are actual "auctions" going on. Just a "trading" house so it would work kind-of like a steam market.
You post an item, with a price and wait... Or if you want to buy something you search for it. Similar to a current trading guild - vendor system - except it should have some limitations (like selling & buying limited number of items per week or something like that - to keep current trading guilds relevant but offer something to smaller guilds & solo players to be an alternative to spamming zone chat with WTS xyz... because this it literally the worst trading system I have ever seen in a mmo...
ff14 has a market board, not an Auction house. You just list items and people buy it. No auctions. It uses a retainer system to limit when you can put stuff up (was suppose to limit rmt.... lol) And honestly I hated it. It was easy to manipulate the market by rmt, or by high end crafters. A ton of people would make thread after thread after thread, complaining about undercutting.
ff14 is gonna release an app for $5 a mnth to make it easier to list stuff on the MB with use of a bought currency. People are literally quitting the game over it.
It was hard to make gil from the MB unless you knew and watched the prices and kept up to date on what popular.
As for the zone chat stuff, though spammy, it is a non issue. Makes ESO lively. Like people actually talk. What they could do is make chat tabs, and let you customize them so you don't have to see zone chat.
I prefer how ESO does it, it limits rmt to a degree as you start to know what guild sells stuff with the best price, and i rather not see "pvp.c0m 10Kgold $2" like how bad i saw it in ff14 traveling is a non issue as you can zone jump free. Just let ppl have chat tabs, and turn off zone chat.
Traveling is an issue if most people can only be on for about 2 hours a day, you can only get to about 6-9 vendors in about 30 minutes of searching and zoning and alot longer with an older computer, this system does not favor buyers whatsoever.
where do you get that data from?
Does everything have to be backed by hard data? That was a reasonable assumption to make. (And before someone goes on about "what happens when people assume," I assume the sun will rise tomorrow, so get back to me when it doesn't and make your point then.)
Shopping around is basically this rotation:
Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Sprint -> Annoying interface -> Scroll, scroll -> Disappointment -> Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Repeat.
This is a waste of valuable game time, and woe betide the person who dares have slow internet or try to port into a zone so busy that they ctd.
Ok. I'm getting back to you.
The "Hard Data" is the sun didn't rise this morning. The sun is stationary, it doesn't move. It is more a "earth rise".
So, not all assumptions,are correct. (I used to use this argument for "Relative Truth vs Absolute Truth" discussions).
I do agree that yes it takes time to shop in ESO. There is 183 kiosks. That is why manipulation of the current system is practically impossible unlike how easy a AH is to control and manipulate. Current system is fine.
My 2 drakes..Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
"Not All Who Wander are Lost"
#MOREHOUSINGSLOTS“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)0 -
xilfxlegion✭✭✭✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »3 guilds on xb na controle all the main traders and prices items are selling for tell me that not manipulation.
how is that tin foil hat fitting you today ?0 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Jewellery crafting was also never supposed to happen... Also I remember abundant amount of threads "make 2 handed weapon count as 2 set pcs" - oh and look what we have in new update.. hmm...
But anyway - it doesn't need to be am auction house where there are actual "auctions" going on. Just a "trading" house so it would work kind-of like a steam market.
You post an item, with a price and wait... Or if you want to buy something you search for it. Similar to a current trading guild - vendor system - except it should have some limitations (like selling & buying limited number of items per week or something like that - to keep current trading guilds relevant but offer something to smaller guilds & solo players to be an alternative to spamming zone chat with WTS xyz... because this it literally the worst trading system I have ever seen in a mmo...
ff14 has a market board, not an Auction house. You just list items and people buy it. No auctions. It uses a retainer system to limit when you can put stuff up (was suppose to limit rmt.... lol) And honestly I hated it. It was easy to manipulate the market by rmt, or by high end crafters. A ton of people would make thread after thread after thread, complaining about undercutting.
ff14 is gonna release an app for $5 a mnth to make it easier to list stuff on the MB with use of a bought currency. People are literally quitting the game over it.
It was hard to make gil from the MB unless you knew and watched the prices and kept up to date on what popular.
As for the zone chat stuff, though spammy, it is a non issue. Makes ESO lively. Like people actually talk. What they could do is make chat tabs, and let you customize them so you don't have to see zone chat.
I prefer how ESO does it, it limits rmt to a degree as you start to know what guild sells stuff with the best price, and i rather not see "pvp.c0m 10Kgold $2" like how bad i saw it in ff14 traveling is a non issue as you can zone jump free. Just let ppl have chat tabs, and turn off zone chat.
Traveling is an issue if most people can only be on for about 2 hours a day, you can only get to about 6-9 vendors in about 30 minutes of searching and zoning and alot longer with an older computer, this system does not favor buyers whatsoever.
where do you get that data from?
Does everything have to be backed by hard data? That was a reasonable assumption to make. (And before someone goes on about "what happens when people assume," I assume the sun will rise tomorrow, so get back to me when it doesn't and make your point then.)
Shopping around is basically this rotation:
Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Sprint -> Annoying interface -> Scroll, scroll -> Disappointment -> Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Repeat.
This is a waste of valuable game time, and woe betide the person who dares have slow internet or try to port into a zone so busy that they ctd.
Ok. I'm getting back to you.
The "Hard Data" is the sun didn't rise this morning. The sun is stationary, it doesn't move. It is more a "earth rise".
So, not all assumptions,are correct. (I used to use this argument for "Relative Truth vs Absolute Truth" discussions).
I do agree that yes it takes time to shop in ESO. There is 183 kiosks. That is why manipulation of the current system is practically impossible unlike how easy a AH is to control and manipulate. Current system is fine.
My 2 drakes..
oh dear. the sun is orbiting the centre of the galaxy, travelling at around 830 000 km/hr and takes about 230 million years to complete the orbit. if you are going to use 'facts' make sure they are.0 -
Korah_Eaglecry✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »Androconium wrote: »blahablahbalah.
.../...
go back to wow if it was so good there. Otherwise, STFU.
LoL ! You said it in a somewhat "raw" format, but I kind of agree with you : arguments revolving around "other MMOs do it better" are tiresome. ESO isn't your typical MMO, nor does it claim to be, nor does it aim to be. It's ESO, it's nothing else, it's different, it doesn't copy/paste, and that's why we love it.
And yet it seems over time ZOS has given into those arguments, which lends credence to others. Text Chat on Console, Buff & Debuff Counters, Combat Text. All of them at one point or time was argued that "this isnt other games" by those that thought they were protecting something different and special. All of them eventually came to pass because the masses didnt agree with the vocal minority here on the forums.
The games economy continues to limp on in its current state because it is an afterthought to most players. They dont jump in to play the market, they dont get online to buy a motif page or weapon. They jump on to play the game. So the impact of having to bounce from kiosk to kiosk isnt felt immediately or all the time. And so it doesnt get the sort of pushback that it probably deserves. But outside of these forums and a handful of players that also visit Reddit youre gonna have a hard time finding people praising this system.Penniless Sellsword CompanyCaptain Paramount - Jorrhaq VhentKorith Eaglecry * Enrerion Aedihle * Laerinel Rhaev * Caius Berilius * Seylina Ithvala * H'Vak the GrimjawlTenarei Rhaev * Dazsh Ro Khar * Yynril Rothvani * Bathes-In-Coin * Anaelle Faerniil * Azjani Ma'LesAban Shahid Bakr * Kheshna gra-Gharbuk * Gallisten Bondurant * Etain Maquier * Atsu Kalame * Faulpia SeverinusWhat is better, to be born good, or to overcome your evil nature through great effort? - Paarthurnax0 -
wenchmore420b14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭jedtb16_ESO wrote: »wenchmore420b14_ESO wrote: »jedtb16_ESO wrote: »Azuramoonstar wrote: »Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »Jewellery crafting was also never supposed to happen... Also I remember abundant amount of threads "make 2 handed weapon count as 2 set pcs" - oh and look what we have in new update.. hmm...
But anyway - it doesn't need to be am auction house where there are actual "auctions" going on. Just a "trading" house so it would work kind-of like a steam market.
You post an item, with a price and wait... Or if you want to buy something you search for it. Similar to a current trading guild - vendor system - except it should have some limitations (like selling & buying limited number of items per week or something like that - to keep current trading guilds relevant but offer something to smaller guilds & solo players to be an alternative to spamming zone chat with WTS xyz... because this it literally the worst trading system I have ever seen in a mmo...
ff14 has a market board, not an Auction house. You just list items and people buy it. No auctions. It uses a retainer system to limit when you can put stuff up (was suppose to limit rmt.... lol) And honestly I hated it. It was easy to manipulate the market by rmt, or by high end crafters. A ton of people would make thread after thread after thread, complaining about undercutting.
ff14 is gonna release an app for $5 a mnth to make it easier to list stuff on the MB with use of a bought currency. People are literally quitting the game over it.
It was hard to make gil from the MB unless you knew and watched the prices and kept up to date on what popular.
As for the zone chat stuff, though spammy, it is a non issue. Makes ESO lively. Like people actually talk. What they could do is make chat tabs, and let you customize them so you don't have to see zone chat.
I prefer how ESO does it, it limits rmt to a degree as you start to know what guild sells stuff with the best price, and i rather not see "pvp.c0m 10Kgold $2" like how bad i saw it in ff14 traveling is a non issue as you can zone jump free. Just let ppl have chat tabs, and turn off zone chat.
Traveling is an issue if most people can only be on for about 2 hours a day, you can only get to about 6-9 vendors in about 30 minutes of searching and zoning and alot longer with an older computer, this system does not favor buyers whatsoever.
where do you get that data from?
Does everything have to be backed by hard data? That was a reasonable assumption to make. (And before someone goes on about "what happens when people assume," I assume the sun will rise tomorrow, so get back to me when it doesn't and make your point then.)
Shopping around is basically this rotation:
Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Sprint -> Annoying interface -> Scroll, scroll -> Disappointment -> Map -> Mark -> Wayshrine/Teleport -> Loading screen -> Repeat.
This is a waste of valuable game time, and woe betide the person who dares have slow internet or try to port into a zone so busy that they ctd.
Ok. I'm getting back to you.
The "Hard Data" is the sun didn't rise this morning. The sun is stationary, it doesn't move. It is more a "earth rise".
So, not all assumptions,are correct. (I used to use this argument for "Relative Truth vs Absolute Truth" discussions).
I do agree that yes it takes time to shop in ESO. There is 183 kiosks. That is why manipulation of the current system is practically impossible unlike how easy a AH is to control and manipulate. Current system is fine.
My 2 drakes..
oh dear. the sun is orbiting the centre of the galaxy, travelling at around 830 000 km/hr and takes about 230 million years to complete the orbit. if you are going to use 'facts' make sure they are.
Correct. The sun orbits the galaxy, not the earth, so technically, the term "sun-rise" is still a misconception..
By hey! Thank you ! This was fun...:)
Back to the thread, this subject has been hashed out since kiosks were introduced into the game.
Before we had traders, EVERYONE wanted a way to sell to the world. Then we got trader kiosks. Took about a week before AH arguments started. Been going ever since with lots of assumptions and born in air facts.
Fact: Is system perfect? No. But completely redesigning & reprogramming it into something that "most" of us don't want and imo will be terrible for the economy is not the answer. UI improvement, such as Awesome Guild Store has is the most realistic and best option for now.
Fact: Does AH work in other MMO's? Yes. But ESO is not other MMO's and from day one, ZoS has said that was their goal, to be apart from other MMORPG's.
I propose we "necro" less AH threads and more "Guild Tools" threads. Give GM's more tools and options and improve basic UI search functions in Guild stores and Guild banks..
Drakon Koryn~Oryndill, Rogue~Mage,- CP ~Doesn't matter any more
NA / PC Beta Member since Nov 2013
GM~Conclave-of-Shadows, EP Social Guild, ~Proud member of: The Wandering Merchants, Phoenix Rising, Imperial Trade Union & Celestials of Nirn
Sister Guilds with: Coroner's Report, Children of Skyrim, Sunshine Daydream, Tamriel Fisheries, Knights Arcanum and more
"Not All Who Wander are Lost"
#MOREHOUSINGSLOTS“When the people that can make the company more successful are sales and marketing people, they end up running the companies. The product people get driven out of the decision making forums, and the companies forget what it means to make great products.”
_Steve Jobs (The Lost Interview)0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DuskMarine wrote: »generalmyrick wrote: »because the market would be too fluid.
as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.
that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!
that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?
dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)
a auction house is not even close to a profitable and useful way to sell stuff in any game yall need to stop trying to force this failure of a system. it makes everything in a game worth nothing at all because everyone undercuts everyone to the point everybody stops selling all together and then the economy dies. that is why a auction should never ever be brought to a game period.
It's true that at least common drops become hard to find on an auction house. However, in ESO, common or low level items became scarce (or outrageously priced) within weeks of the introduction of the guild trader system. This is because of the relatively low number of players that have access to hub trading guilds, the selling requirements imposed on hub traders by their guilds and the 30 item selling cap.
A perfect example from the past is style stones, which a many people were destroying to make room in their inventory. The scarcity on guild traders became so bad that ZoS eventually made many of these common items available from NPC merchants...
In the present, a good example is green recipes. Sure, you can find green cp150 writ recipes at the hubs, but otherwise, be prepared to wait for even common recipes. Or search every guild trader daily... You can, however, buy the low level green writ recipes from NPC's, added for the same reason as the style stones.
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