Absolutely not. You want the population to really decline that much? Once you’ve completed it and have the mechanics down, yeah sure it’s easy. The ten million attempts beforehand are soul destroying.

I always encourage people do vMA to train their environment awareness. From my own exp, people who already beat vMA get used to avoiding wolves in Fang Lair, jumping in and out of stuffs on time in Scalecaller, dodge boss heavy attack in case tank die... much quicker, while those who have no environment awareness keep dying again and again to those mechanic even after they understand what needed to do. They just don't keep an eye on what's going on around and focus on their rotation or whatever they're doing.

Knowledge wrote: »

TheDarkShadow wrote: »

I always encourage people do vMA to train their environment awareness. From my own exp, people who already beat vMA get used to avoiding wolves in Fang Lair, jumping in and out of stuffs on time in Scalecaller, dodge boss heavy attack in case tank die... much quicker, while those who have no environment awareness keep dying again and again to those mechanic even after they understand what needed to do. They just don't keep an eye on what's going on around and focus on their rotation or whatever they're doing.

So you agree with this proposal?

I agree we should encourage them, but it's on them to decide if they want to push that much though.

I don't think anyone should HAVE to do vMA - but , if they are really interested in pushing their end game as far as it can go - they should be encouraged.

And helped.

There's no doubt you come out a better player than you went in - but it's not what you would call a fun learning experience lol.

timb16_ESO85 wrote: »

/sarcasm

Yes, let healers and tank be tested in vMA, that's a great idea. If they can complete it with a completely different build than is required for their role, they sure have a good grasp on the game. We could certainly use more tanks who think their role is running in and making sure everything either dies or attacks and kills the healer in dungeon finder groups.

/end sarcasm

The other day I brought a new tank in my guild to try out vet Scalecaller. He has better stats than my tank. I've explained to him what needed to do. We were on discord and I kept remind him when the yellow circle/ice pillar came up so he could jump in/hide behind pillar. The only thing he needed to watch out is the orge heavy attack. And he kept dying. From heavy attack, from not hiding behind pillar... We couldn't get pass that boss after 1 hour trying. That's environment awareness, to look around and see what's going on while also keep an eye on what you're doing (blocking boss heavy attack for example), and that's what you learn in vMA. You can complete vMA on a dps and still have that environment awareness experience on your tank and healer.

normal one, sure

If they did that I'd quit. Awful idea.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

It doesn't teach you anything in any of the other game modes, the setup for VMA is completely different and forces you to rely on you self for healing/sustain and debuffing. Also every dungeon has its own mechanic perfetcting one won't make you better at the other one.

This is a really dumb suggestion since already the BiS bow and staff which are used all the time by stam and magika dps are gated behind VMA.

if you wanna kill the playerbase then sure your suggestion is head on

It does teach you a lot actually.

Knowledge wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

It doesn't teach you anything in any of the other game modes, the setup for VMA is completely different and forces you to rely on you self for healing/sustain and debuffing. Also every dungeon has its own mechanic perfetcting one won't make you better at the other one.

This is a really dumb suggestion since already the BiS bow and staff which are used all the time by stam and magika dps are gated behind VMA.

if you wanna kill the playerbase then sure your suggestion is head on

It does teach you a lot actually.

wow that was such and explicit explanation!!

Anyways I beat it a lot and it still didnt affect my playstyle in any of the other game modes, because its completely different.

Running around all the time is bad for trials and dungeons, relying on self sustain skills and healing will drop your dps in other modes you don't have a tank in Vma which makes the fight compltetely different, rotation is also compltetely different.

The only thing you learn in VMA is to dodge red, which you can learn in any of the harder game modes

Knowledge wrote: »

Sparr0w wrote: »

Wouldn't force it on anyone, especially stam characters. Heals are based on doing damage, killing stuff or Vigor which forces them to PVP.

If you get hit with anything inbetween mobs spawning you're a gonner, take that from someone who failed countless times between CP200-300 on a DW StamBlade...

However I'd say yes do suggest it at higher CP as it's a decent training ground, but mostly it's just memorising where everything spawns to avoid damage.

Most fights in the game are scripted. If you do Veteran Scalecaller Hardmode the mechanics don't change and what the boss does doesn't change. Memorizing what she does and when is a part of the process. Because vMA is scripted, like most fights in the game, it shouldn't be devalued.

But its a completely different script so mastering VMA's script won't mean anything in scalecallers peak

VMA is still too hard for a large part of the playerbase for this to work out.
As much as it may seem trivial for veteran players it´s still an obstacle that can´t be overcome at all for many.

It´s already contentgating mandatory pve weapons. I think that´s enough.

Gulp... I fully concur with the first half. I agree, that vMA taught me healing, defence, positioning - all transferable to PvP. It also makes you have at least good burst if not decent DPS. Anyone that talks about doing hard content I suggest try vMA.

That I agree on

However gating it is a very bad suggestion. Mainly (as you well know) it would force people to buy Orsinium. Admittedly its like 350 crowns in anniversary sale) however you can't gate behind DLC.

Also, many people like to feel good. And vMA can teach them that they aren't. And in this liberal world of play how you want etc etc etc people would cry about this alot. And likewise it would put people off alot of content. It would be detrimental overall.

Right now I / a group can carry a player thru a Vet DLC dungeon. That would stop if gated.

And honestly, you are talking about a community that want more double XP events and want to buy CP in a crown store LOL. We already have enough bad high CP players. This would fully go against that train of thought. (which I'm anti, grinding ruins the game)

Personally - I use vMA to 'gate' my alts / builds. As I k ow if it works well in there its in the zone.

So....shockingly I'm with you on what vMA is good for, but totally opposed to any form of fixed gating. Can the community self gate? Yes. As for stormproof/Flawless titles only in group.

I did MA on normal long time ago. After some time I also did it on veteran. But I as far as I remember I have never done vMA again... why ? Well that is because I simply did not have any motivation to do so. All I can get is a weapon that I will probably not use. I Always play group content as a tank. And tanks have a LOT of options when it comes to gear. And seeing how I am not playing 12-man trials (mostly because there is no group finder for them for some odd reason) - those MA weapons are simply useless for me. And After next patch 2H weapon will count as 2pcs for a set bonus. So I will have even less reasons to do vMA...

I already encourage friends to do vMA, as its a good way to learn more about their class outside of a dungeon/trial setup.

I would never dream of forcing it on them.