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Why are there no "Aldmeris" ruins in Summerset like Auridon?

RVFFVS
RVFFVS
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If we analyze all Elven ruins scattered by Tamriel, including Auridon, (excluding dwemers, logically) we might assume that they deal with an ancestral architectural style, which could be called typically "Aldemeri" or "Old Aldemeri". The existing ruins at Summerset could even be classified as "Late Aldemeri" or "Old Altmer", but there should also be remnants of this ancestral architectural style (typical Aldemeri) common to all elven "clans" who later came into separate races. Also missing references of the previous occupation of the island by the Sloads.
Edited by RVFFVS on April 30, 2018 3:38AM

Best Answer

  • Hymzir
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    The topic of Aldmeri ruins on Auridon and Summerset has been discussed before on these forums. Here's something I had to say about it in Summerset Architecture thread:
    they already added Aldmer ruins in ESO. Auridon has several of them. And they look pretty much the same as Ayleid stuff. You know, the ancient elven design style, that was originally created for Oblivion.

    They even gave a bit of in universe lore about the subject, Lawrence Schick gave an interview where he RPd Phrastus of Elinhir - this is what he claimed back then:
    Nights Knight: Have traditionally been described as the offshoot of ancient Aldmer who conquered Cyrodiil specifically and succumbed to certain forms of ... Padomaic influence, we see that it is described as Ayleid ruins in Auridon itself, and Ayleid is occasionally used to simply mean 'ancestral elf'. Is this distinction between Ayleids and Altmer firmly maintained in ESO? This may seem like abject nerdery, but is it important to the self-perception of Altmer as Anuic, unchanged descendants of the Aldmer?

    Phrastus: Well, hmph, any description of Elven ruins in the Summerset Isles as 'Ayleid' is an ignorant mistake! Probably made by someone who can't tell Heartland Elf architecture from High Elf. Look, it's quite simple: if you go into an Ayleid ruin, they're lit by these spooky, eerie blue lights, these-these Varla stones and Welkynd stones. Whereas, if you go into an Altmeri ruin, it will be lit by the golden glow of the Culanda and Malondo stones. So, uh that's one easy way to tell them apart, even if they may look superficially similar. However, despite these superficial similarities, it is incontrovertible that all the various races of the elves derive from Altmeri- Aldmeri root stock. Don't confuse your 'D's with your 'T's. Next!

    So... If Altmer are preserving the traditions of their ancestors, then their buildings should look pretty much like the Ayleid ruins we are familiar with, since they look pretty much the same as Aldmer ruins. Just with different colored lighting. And if humans just copied the style of Aldmer, then human buildings should also resemble Ayleid ruins.

    But they don't. And that's actually a good thing. Internal logic and consistency often takes a back seat when artistic design choices are pondered. Am actually okay with that. Retcons are a thing, and am never been one to get too attached to any lore of any setting or world I explore for entertainment. These things are not actual worlds, they are figments of imagination and their creators are just humans, who, as we well know, are prone to err. So mistakes will be done. Things will change with time. New ideas will take root and nothing is ever really set in stone.

    Furthermore the load screen for Ezduiin in Auridon has this to say: "There are obvious similarities between Altmer architecture and that of their cousins the Ayleids, but there are clear differences as well. High Elven architecture is cleaner and more direct, with less baroque ornamentation than that of the Wild Elves."

    But that was then and this is now, and the stuff coming with Summerset chapter follows a completely different set of aesthetics. The bottom line here is that they want to sell us something, 'cause that's what they do. And they though they'd get a better return for their investments by coming up with new stuff, than by recycling old stuff. If they had kept the earlier designs, then lore nerds would've praised them, but others would've have derided them for being lazy and recycling old assets and having the galls to charge us for it.

    Personally, I would've preferred internal consistency and all that, but I'm not really bothered by retconning either. I just wish they'd gone with something tad more imaginative than the stuff they went with. But yeah, those ruins in Auridon are not Ayleid, they're Aldmer, and they are supposedly built by the same folk who made the ruins on the main isle.

    Maybe they had some odd custom that prevented them from building in the same style they used on the main isle anywhere else. That certainly seems to be the case for the current Altmer - the stuff on the main isle bear no resemblance to any other High Elf structure featured anywhere else in ESO.
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  • Aliyavana
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    I think first hold needs to be updated to mainland altmer architecture since it was the first aldmeri settlemeny
  • Chaos2088
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    The Mer ruins across Tamriel are of the Ayleids not Aldmer.

    The Altmer are what is left over from the Aldmer, so the buildings in Summerset are Aldmer.

    Lore masters please correct me if I am wrong. :)
    @Chaos2088 PC EU Server | AD-PvP
  • MLGProPlayer
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    Chaos2088 wrote: »
    The Mer ruins across Tamriel are of the Ayleids not Aldmer.

    The Altmer are what is left over from the Aldmer, so the buildings in Summerset are Aldmer.

    Lore masters please correct me if I am wrong. :)

    This is my understanding as well.

    The Ayleids were daedra-worshipping Aldmer that moved from Summerset to mainland Tamriel (much like the Chimer). The Aldmer who stayed on Summerset and continued to worship the 8 Divines were eventually renamed to the Altmer. Think of it as the Hellenistic Greeks becoming the Byzantine Greeks. They are just an evolution of the same culture.
    Edited by MLGProPlayer on April 30, 2018 8:00AM
  • adriant1978
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    The same style was used for Aldmer (or ancient Altmer, not sure exactly when one became the other) ruins in Auridon such as Tanzelwil and for Ayleid ruins in other zones.

    This might just be lazy recycling of assets, or it might indicate a common Aldmeri architectural style which the Ayleids carried with them to mainland Tamriel.
  • AEAltadoonPadhome
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    Personally I think in Auridon they indeed recycled the Ayleid ruins invented in TESIV:Oblivion.
    Now they are making up for that by creating new architecture for summerset.
    If you want a lore explanation, perhaps some Ayleids that fled cyrodiil during the Alessian rebellion ended up in Auridon, just like some fled to Valenwood. However, ruins like Tanzelwil have a function in the rites of legitimizing the Queen of the Dominion as we see in the quest, so that contradicts it.

    I assume it is retconned because it is "boring and therefore wrong (tm)"
  • adriant1978
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    A whole bunch of new Redguard architecture and decorations were added with the Thieves Guild which are seen nowhere in Alik'r or Bangkorai, so they have form on the whole "we are making fancy new stuff for the DLCs even if it contradicts what we put in the base game" front.
  • WhiteCoatSyndrome
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    Personally I think in Auridon they indeed recycled the Ayleid ruins invented in TESIV:Oblivion.
    Now they are making up for that by creating new architecture for summerset.
    If you want a lore explanation, perhaps some Ayleids that fled cyrodiil during the Alessian rebellion ended up in Auridon, just like some fled to Valenwood.

    Other way around - Firsthold was first, hence the name. Note also that an alternate name for the Ayleids is 'Heartland High Elves.'
    #proud2BAStarObsessedLoony
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  • Earrindo
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    I am continually perplexed by their apparent distaste for introducing new art assets to older zones.

    Why not replace the ayleid ruins on auridon with the new aldmeri ruins? I cant imagine that players would be angry. They didnt have the time/resources at launch to make separate aldmeri ruins.
    Ok.
    Now they have them, so lets spruce up an older zone with the newer assets?

    Morrowind has a number of glaring examples that would truly benefit from the assets in the chapter. Ordinators, anything involving House Hlaalu, Redoran or Telvanni, shrines, clutter, furnishings etc.

    I would find it to be a great way to breathe some new life back into older zones, as well as showing off the better assets made for the chapters and DLC.

    Just a thought for a future update perhaps.
  • adriant1978
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    Earrindo wrote: »
    I am continually perplexed by their apparent distaste for introducing new art assets to older zones.

    Bottom line is, unfortunately, the bottom line. They don't make any money through doing this as they can't sell it in the Crown Store, so they won't spend developer and artist time on it.

    Only times they will revisit the base game zones is to add things which enable new features (duelling arenas, jewellery crafting stations) especially if those new features are attached to some kind of monetization.

  • Lord_Ninka
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    Probably because the two zones aren't designed by the same people at the same time.

    If you need an in-universe explanation then I suppose you could pretend the Altmer don't care as much about clearing up the ruins of their buffer-island as they care about keeping the mainland neat.
    Edited by Lord_Ninka on April 30, 2018 12:55PM
  • Chaos2088
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    Earrindo wrote: »
    I am continually perplexed by their apparent distaste for introducing new art assets to older zones.

    Why not replace the ayleid ruins on auridon with the new aldmeri ruins? I cant imagine that players would be angry. They didnt have the time/resources at launch to make separate aldmeri ruins.
    Ok.
    Now they have them, so lets spruce up an older zone with the newer assets?

    Morrowind has a number of glaring examples that would truly benefit from the assets in the chapter. Ordinators, anything involving House Hlaalu, Redoran or Telvanni, shrines, clutter, furnishings etc.

    I would find it to be a great way to breathe some new life back into older zones, as well as showing off the better assets made for the chapters and DLC.

    Just a thought for a future update perhaps.

    I think maybe not this year, but sometime soon the base game will be getting a visual update to match it to the same quality as the current dlc zones and alot of what you stated like Dunmer houses motifs on NPCs etc, Aldmer ruins etc will be updated then.
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  • RVFFVS
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    Thinking about the "clearing up ruins" in Summerset, this might explain the architecture of the Crystal Tower entrance and the situation of Alinor and Lilandril, but would indicate an unusual "disregard" of the Altmer culture if we look at Skywatch. This cultural problem would also worsen in thinking of the work they had to remove all the "ancestral" traits of their culture in "rebuilding" all cities or keeps, which were later abandoned as well ...

    Yes, the introduction of new styles is very cool, but I am attached to coherence, even in a fantasy worlds. So if there is no way (yet) to modify Auridon, "traces" of Admeris ruins should be placed in Summerset, even with the prevalence of this "new style" Altmer.
    Edited by RVFFVS on April 30, 2018 4:11PM
  • Hymzir
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    RVFFVS wrote: »
    Yes, the introduction of new styles is very cool, but I am attached to coherence, even in a fantasy worlds. So if there is no way (yet) to modify Auridon, "traces" of Admeris ruins should be placed in Summerset, even with the prevalence of this "new style" Altmer.

    On a principle level, I agree with you. And back before Summerset hit PTS and we could check things out for ourselves, I made a point about there better being some Auridon type Aldmer ruins on the main isle, or internal consistency is thrown outta the window.

    I also expected there to be some, since they already had the assets and did not really think ZOS would allocate resources in coming up with completely new stuff. I expected them to expand the existing stuff, not replace it with a whole another set. But, well... They went that way in the end, and now people are even more confused about Elder Scroll lore.

    However, I am not all that surprised about this state of things either, 'cause like I said, design choices do not follow established lore first and foremost, they follow what ever the current crowd of devs consider cool and hip and sellable at the time.

    This happened with the Dwemer back in Skyrim - Remember how Dwemer stuff used to look in Morrowind? (The game, not the chapter that is.) Remember how they ended up looking in Skyrim? Before Skyrim happened, fans made several mods for Oblivion featuring Dwemer stuff in the Morrowind style, and my own build for that game has a bunch of them dotting the border between Cyrodiil and Morrowind.

    But then came Skyrim, Bethesda decided to "update" the look, and that is the one we got for ESO as well. And now ESO Morrowind has Skyrim style Dwemer ruins...

    If Bethesda will do any part of Summerset for TES6, I would not be all that surprised if the style will change once more. Although, I think that TES6 might indeed take place in Akavir and not Tamriel - the reason being that Tamriel is reserved for ESO from henceforth, and the guys at Bethesda will go do their own thing elsewhere on Nirn.
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