Veteran Overland Mode

MaleAmazon · April 2018

So I just finished the Summerset preview. Nice and all, and I kinda look forward to playing some story, but... it reminded me of the biggest problematic difference between say Fallout 4 and ESO. Solo player game difficulty, or rather the complete lack thereof. Every boss in the Summerset quest was the same. Cue dramatic music, cue boss threats, cue 4.2 seconds of combat...

And this is without optimised gear, but rather just good gear.

No I will not gimp my character. I get it that since we share the world and ZOS doesn´t seem to like to do instancing beyond the MQ, it gets hard to balance.

So here´s what I suggest. I´m sure it´s been suggested before, but really, playing through quests again after I restarted characters, deciding to play more casually, this is a huge hit on enjoyment;

Create a battle-spirit type debuff that players can opt into, like veteran mode for dungeons. Call it "Champion questing mode" or something. Have it debuff player health and damage output, and in return give a little better loot and maybe a chance for unique loot. This way it does not affect lower level players, but you are not forced into gimping yourself to avoid 'auto god mode' when playing anything other than dungeons.

This way some places might actually start to feel dangerous again. Right now I honestly feel like I´m in some kind of cheat mode when questing.

Stovahkiin · April 2018

I wouldn’t mind having this. At the very least, I’d like to see the story boss fights get buffed back up a bit. It’s really anticlimactic to face a villain you’ve been chasing for a long time, only to have them fall down like a bag of potatoes as soon as the fight starts.

Apache_Kid · April 2018

It's been suggested before??? No way!

I sure haven't seen it....

Bigevilpeter · April 2018

I made a post like that a week ago or something.

GreenhaloX · April 2018

Just go solo in Cyrodiil.. This is when I get the urge for veteran HM content. Gets the fix in just right.

Gythral · April 2018

With Vet. skill point & sky shards, I guess I could live with a decent harder mode, without why bother

MaleAmazon · April 2018

I know it´s been suggested before, I´ve suggested it myself. I don´t think it hurts to bring it up, we got jewelry crafting eventually.

And there is a difference now. Before you might say "well you´ve done that content" when it came to regular quests from the base game. And Morrowind was fun regardless.

But now there is a whole new chapter, and it cost me quite a bit to buy. And there is going to be no reasonable way to get a challenge when playing story? And no, gimping yourself, creating alts and refusing to allocate CP, and standing on your head drunk while playing are not reasonable ways.

Just go solo in Cyrodiil.. This is when I get the urge for veteran HM content. Gets the fix in just right.

Is there another way to play Cyro?

starkerealm · April 2018

MaleAmazon wrote: »

But now there is a whole new chapter, and it cost me quite a bit to buy. And there is going to be no reasonable way to get a challenge when playing story? And no, gimping yourself, creating alts and refusing to allocate CP, and standing on your head drunk while playing are not reasonable ways.

To be fair, if they did add in harder difficulty modes, it would still just be gimping yourself. You take a stat debuff, so the enemies are harder?

That said, it might be possible to have a system where you flag yourself and enemies you enter combat with are more aggressive towards you, using additional mechanics, and taking reduced damage. Sort of like vet dungeon hard mode fights.

Thing is, some of the normal Summerset enemies have entirely new mechanics, that are actually pretty cool, and experienced players will almost never see them because of how fast we can burn through trash pulls.

itsfatbass · April 2018

Seriously agreed! Been saying this for years, vet overland really needs a toggle for veteran or normal.

MaleAmazon · April 2018

To be fair, if they did add in harder difficulty modes, it would still just be gimping yourself. You take a stat debuff, so the enemies are harder?

I wouldnt have to switch gear for crappier gear, there could be a small reward like more gold, and I would have to pay some attention to myself in order to survive...

Might even need to switch gears to be tankier in order to beat a solo boss.. imagine that

Thing is, some of the normal Summerset enemies have entirely new mechanics, that are actually pretty cool, and experienced players will almost never see them because of how fast we can burn through trash pulls.

This is a problem and it´s a problem with ESO in general. From vMA being recommended as a DPS race, to players frequently wanting to skip everything they can skip in dungeons...

I mean something like when I solo world bosses. That can get pretty hairy sometimes and it feels like a real fight where you have to pay attention to the mechanics and slowly whittle the boss down.

Honestly the only gold piece on my gear is 1 sword of my DW frontbar, and I could probably burn through every Summerset preview boss in less than 10 seconds.

Berenhir · April 2018

Reset your CP, reset your attributes, reset your passive skill points and use only gear, food and potions you find on your way.

This is how you enable additional difficulty.

Maryal · April 2018

The OP said they didn't want to gimp their character, yet they ask for a battle spirit de-buff that would do exactly what they said they didn't want. Sounds like someone's been dipping into the skooma a bit too much.

SkillzMFG · April 2018

Berenhir wrote: »

Reset your CP, reset your attributes, reset your passive skill points and use only gear, food and potions you find on your way.

This is how you enable additional difficulty.

Play with one hand tied behind your back, while blindfolded, using a broken keyboard and dial-up connection while in a forest.

MaleAmazon · April 2018

The OP said they didn't want to gimp their character, yet they ask for a battle spirit de-buff that would do exactly what they said they didn't want. Sounds like someone's been dipping into the skooma a bit too much.

I suppose I shouldnt even bother to respond to people who can´t be bothered to read, yet love to post useless text chunks. But anyway:

Deliberately gimping your character by not upgrading your gear despite being able to, not allocating CP despite being able to, etc, is different from turning the difficulty up. By the logic of some people here nothing can ever be too easy in a computer game, you just adjust it by deliberately playing worse.

And turning the difficulty up by reducing high-end players´ stats is the only way to ensure content can be completed by all players.

You can of course give better loot as well, similar to veteran dungeon mode.

SkillzMFG · April 2018

MaleAmazon wrote: »

The OP said they didn't want to gimp their character, yet they ask for a battle spirit de-buff that would do exactly what they said they didn't want. Sounds like someone's been dipping into the skooma a bit too much.

I suppose I shouldnt even bother to respond to people who can´t be bothered to read, yet love to post useless text chunks. But anyway:

Deliberately gimping your character by not upgrading your gear despite being able to, not allocating CP despite being able to, etc, is different from turning the difficulty up. By the logic of some people here nothing can ever be too easy in a computer game, you just adjust it by deliberately playing worse.

And turning the difficulty up by reducing high-end players´ stats is the only way to ensure content can be completed by all players.

You can of course give better loot as well, similar to veteran dungeon mode.

Hey at least they bothered enough to write a sentence or two, you'd be surprised how many constructive forums posts are met with 'NO' as an answer...No idea why people do that.

With that said I fully agree with you and would like to see some sort of choice in difficulty when it comes to overland content. Everything is just a faceroll at this point, even without decent gear and max CP!

AlienatedGoat · April 2018

I'll just leave this here

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401048/this-is-what-veteran-overland-should-look-like/p1

MaleAmazon · April 2018

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/401048/this-is-what-veteran-overland-should-look-like/p1

Yeah, those were good ideas. I think a player debuff has the advantage that

1) It is really simple, you don´t need to do anything except add a status effect and things like more XP and gold (which could serve as rewards) have already been used in the game (prosperous trait).

2) it´s what was used for PvP so there is precedent and they have experience with it.

AlienatedGoat · April 2018

MaleAmazon wrote: »

Yeah, those were good ideas. I think a player debuff has the advantage that

1) It is really simple, you don´t need to do anything except add a status effect and things like more XP and gold (which could serve as rewards) have already been used in the game (prosperous trait).

Thanks.

I could maybe get behind a player scaleback, but I'd still tell myself its the monsters getting stronger, not me getting weaker >_<

I'd muchly prefer just upscaling monsters/bosses. That way vet players and norm players could still play and work together to bring strong mobs down if they're in the wild.

IDK, there are so many different ways to approach it, and many of them would be viable and fun. I just wish ZOS would at least look into it.

I'm not even excited for Summerset overland/story content because I already know it's just another faceroll.

Vaoh · April 2018

A Veteran overland mode has been suggested many times. Your idea of having a sort of manually activated Battle Spirit debuff is very good though! This way we can still play in the same world as “lowbies” but now deal very little damage and take way less hits.

ZOS could implement this as a 12hr debuff attached to a momento earned at the end of the main quest, similar in functionality to anniversary cake XP buffs. Ofc you can delete the debuff in your character sheet too.

MaleAmazon · April 2018

I could maybe get behind a player scaleback, but I'd still tell myself its the monsters getting stronger, not me getting weaker >_<

Sometimes when I solo aoe down giants I remember how they used to be in Skyrim..

You are ridiculously strong as it is in ESO, it´s more reminiscent of Diablo than TES

starkerealm · April 2018

MaleAmazon wrote: »

To be fair, if they did add in harder difficulty modes, it would still just be gimping yourself. You take a stat debuff, so the enemies are harder?

I wouldnt have to switch gear for crappier gear, there could be a small reward like more gold, and I would have to pay some attention to myself in order to survive...

Might even need to switch gears to be tankier in order to beat a solo boss.. imagine that

Thing is, some of the normal Summerset enemies have entirely new mechanics, that are actually pretty cool, and experienced players will almost never see them because of how fast we can burn through trash pulls.

This is a problem and it´s a problem with ESO in general. From vMA being recommended as a DPS race, to players frequently wanting to skip everything they can skip in dungeons...

I mean something like when I solo world bosses. That can get pretty hairy sometimes and it feels like a real fight where you have to pay attention to the mechanics and slowly whittle the boss down.

Honestly the only gold piece on my gear is 1 sword of my DW frontbar, and I could probably burn through every Summerset preview boss in less than 10 seconds.

There's, at least two, you can't. Maybe three. They simply have mechanics that make an immediate burn impossible (in two cases), and very unlikely in a third. (There's another one that I've fought, but honestly can't remember the mechanics at all.)

There's also another detail here, the idea that you'd get better rewards. I mean, this makes sense. Run harder content, get better goodies. But, the way ESO is set up, no reward is really going to be meaningful, outside of something like vMA. The only reasons vet trial and dungeon completes matter is because of the monster sets, and the gold jewelry. That's not really better rewards, that's unique stuff you can't get elsewhere. And, the gold jewelry is going to be a lot easier to collect once Summerset hits live. (Okay, maybe not, "a lot easier," but there will be more options.)

AlienatedGoat · April 2018

MaleAmazon wrote: »

I could maybe get behind a player scaleback, but I'd still tell myself its the monsters getting stronger, not me getting weaker >_<

Sometimes when I solo aoe down giants I remember how they used to be in Skyrim.. You are ridiculously strong as it is in ESO, it´s more reminiscent of Diablo than TES

Yeah, overland is very much a theme park right now. The only place you can get any challenge as a PvE vet is in hard group content. Which is already in short supply compared to the oodles of faceroll PvE content.

When 90% of the game is literally autopilot faceroll past c160, it basically forces vets to do the same old small pool of group content, and that gets boring fast, and that leads to burnout. If ZOS wants to really help player retention, we need a vet overland PvE option.

MaleAmazon · April 2018

But, the way ESO is set up, no reward is really going to be meaningful, outside of something like vMA. The only reasons vet trial and dungeon completes matter is because of the monster sets, and the gold jewelry. That's not really better rewards, that's unique stuff you can't get elsewhere. And, the gold jewelry is going to be a lot easier to collect once Summerset hits live. (Okay, maybe not, "a lot easier," but there will be more options.)

Well this is kind of true. OTOH people like to spend imo ridiculous amounts of cash on simple XP pots, when you can simply play the game and get good enough to do almost all content in a few weeks, especially with festivals (I leveled my new main from 1-50 in like 3 days during the 2-festival season and that was 90% without xp farming). So I dont understand really what motivates some people anyway

Also it's not really about the reward, it´s just nice to get one. And a gold reward would be enough for me, gold can be turned into anything else via traders anyway. The only thing I really want for in this game is gold tempers (and houses, but I want something like the pirate ship in Oblivion before I buy)...

AndyMac · April 2018

A vet overland option would be great. The original vet overland zones and Craglorn were a lot of fun back in the day.

I don't want to slot bad armor or undo and then redo 700 + CP each time I just want to progress a chapter story line or do a few overland quests .

I get that ZOS wants the new zones to be playable by new players from the outset, but they are far too easy - and, yep, I have tried them with a new toon and no CP applied - very, very easy imo.

I'm paying what new players are paying for new content and I'd like to get some new, fun game play for my money like they are.

As it is, that's not happening.

SugaComa · April 2018

MaleAmazon wrote: »

So I just finished the Summerset preview. Nice and all, and I kinda look forward to playing some story, but... it reminded me of the biggest problematic difference between say Fallout 4 and ESO. Solo player game difficulty, or rather the complete lack thereof. Every boss in the Summerset quest was the same. Cue dramatic music, cue boss threats, cue 4.2 seconds of combat...

And this is without optimised gear, but rather just good gear.

No I will not gimp my character. I get it that since we share the world and ZOS doesn´t seem to like to do instancing beyond the MQ, it gets hard to balance.

So here´s what I suggest. I´m sure it´s been suggested before, but really, playing through quests again after I restarted characters, deciding to play more casually, this is a huge hit on enjoyment;

Create a battle-spirit type debuff that players can opt into, like veteran mode for dungeons. Call it "Champion questing mode" or something. Have it debuff player health and damage output, and in return give a little better loot and maybe a chance for unique loot. This way it does not affect lower level players, but you are not forced into gimping yourself to avoid 'auto god mode' when playing anything other than dungeons.

This way some places might actually start to feel dangerous again. Right now I honestly feel like I´m in some kind of cheat mode when questing.

I've always said new characters after cp160 should be linked with the first character sharing sky shards and CP and achievements, but the play through is on a harder difficulty making the over land world more interesting