auction house = too efficient an economy = no auction house!

generalmyrick · April 2018

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!

that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?

dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)

Anotherone773 · April 2018

You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.

Cpt_Teemo · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.

And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game

Jameliel · April 2018

Tamriel Trade Centre's webpage search performs almost exactly as a central auction house search. As for the weak argument, "not as many people use TTC as you think", anyone very invested and who would attempt to manipulate the market surely uses it. Not having an in-game centralized search is just another example of ZOS trying too hard to be unique. All it does is cost players more time. Some don't mind it, some do.

DuskMarine · April 2018

generalmyrick wrote: »

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!

that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?

dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)

a auction house is not even close to a profitable and useful way to sell stuff in any game yall need to stop trying to force this failure of a system. it makes everything in a game worth nothing at all because everyone undercuts everyone to the point everybody stops selling all together and then the economy dies. that is why a auction should never ever be brought to a game period.

generalmyrick · April 2018

DuskMarine wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!

that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?

dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)

a auction house is not even close to a profitable and useful way to sell stuff in any game yall need to stop trying to force this failure of a system. it makes everything in a game worth nothing at all because everyone undercuts everyone to the point everybody stops selling all together and then the economy dies. that is why a auction should never ever be brought to a game period.

i was in a big time trading guild and as soon as I put something in I'd check back in an hour to see 2 to 3 identical items lower in price...soooooo?

kargen27 · April 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.

And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game

The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.

A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.

You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?

DanteYoda · April 2018

As long as its not like Guildwars 2 economy its why i quit that mmo.. God everything was overpriced to the point of insanity..

zaria · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.

This, also that ESO has 6 servers, wow has hundreds, not only would this might be an performance issue at least with macro trading, but as you say it would be forever underbidding for common items, now if you are an buyer an action house will benefit you, just one place to look and prices would be lower,
For the seller it would be worse unless you got something very rare

Hanokihs · April 2018

kargen27 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.

And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game

The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.

A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.

You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?

Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.

At least, that's how I understand it.

DuskMarine · April 2018

generalmyrick wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!

that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?

dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)

a auction house is not even close to a profitable and useful way to sell stuff in any game yall need to stop trying to force this failure of a system. it makes everything in a game worth nothing at all because everyone undercuts everyone to the point everybody stops selling all together and then the economy dies. that is why a auction should never ever be brought to a game period.

i was in a big time trading guild and as soon as I put something in I'd check back in an hour to see 2 to 3 identical items lower in price...soooooo?

thats 2 or 3 imagine 20-30 thousand...........all listing for the same or lower........or even another 20-30 thousand listing the same thing even lower than those 20-30 thousand. its a never ending cycle thats the point. youd kill the market system with this idea.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.

And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game

Not even close to 75% use a centralized system and most of the ones that do have the population divided into dozens and hundreds of servers. I would be like Scourge McDuck with a centralized system swimming in a tower full of gold. Ive had a lot of practice at trade manipulation in Eve over the last decade.

DuskMarine wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!

that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?

dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)

a auction house is not even close to a profitable and useful way to sell stuff in any game yall need to stop trying to force this failure of a system. it makes everything in a game worth nothing at all because everyone undercuts everyone to the point everybody stops selling all together and then the economy dies. that is why a auction should never ever be brought to a game period.

This is the other bad thing about a central system, what you get in lower prices and convince makes things not worth listing because of penny wars. We already have people that arent smart enough to vendor something for 3 gold each and instead list it on a trader for 2 gold each. All we need is people having penny wars to further drive prices down. Then people stop listing stuff and then those rock bottom prices on things no longer exist because no one makes anything off them. Almost every central AH ive seen has been mostly dead and not worth buying or selling in.

Hanokihs wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.

And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game

The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.

A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.

You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?

Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Only people who pay higher prices go to popular hubs. I sell in ebonheart and i sell in mournhold currently. My guild in mournhold does about 5 times the sales as the one in ebonheart. But i will list two identical items one in mournhold and one ebonheart and i can get a much higher price in mournhold AND sell it faster. So if you buy items from me you will pay about 25% more in mournhold than you would if i listed in ebonheart. I find good deals at hole in the wall traders. Not so much in major hubs and when you do they are gone in 10 minutes or less anyway so unless your spamming search when its being added your probably not going to get that good deal in those major hubs. In a remote trader it will still be there after an hour or even a few hours depending on the time of the day.

generalmyrick wrote: »

DuskMarine wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

that's why! farmers in this game are the best i've ever seen. you folks are amazing! just imagine a guild where you had infinite slots or access to every buyer in the game!

that why! too GOOD of an economy would be bad for the game! right?

dead horse memes? at least i brought a different point! too fluid and good of an economy! :-)

a auction house is not even close to a profitable and useful way to sell stuff in any game yall need to stop trying to force this failure of a system. it makes everything in a game worth nothing at all because everyone undercuts everyone to the point everybody stops selling all together and then the economy dies. that is why a auction should never ever be brought to a game period.

i was in a big time trading guild and as soon as I put something in I'd check back in an hour to see 2 to 3 identical items lower in price...soooooo?

Oh thats nothing. On a central system you wouldnt even be on the first few pages( sorted by price) of results in an hour with the server population ours have if its a high volume item.

kargen27 · April 2018

Hanokihs wrote: »

kargen27 wrote: »

Cpt_Teemo wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You obviously have not done serious trading in a game with a centralized trade system. It makes it very easy to manipulate the market and also you have to play "penny wars" if your not a high end trader.

And yet 99.99% of the current MMO's use a centralized auction house, its no more manipulative than this system, tbh this system is more manipulative than anything i've seen in any online game

The MMOs that use a centralized auction house for the most part have multiple servers to divide the population. ESO has a much bigger player base on each server. If you go to the forums of those other MMOs you will find a multitude of threads complaining about monopolizing rare items or price gouging on the common items.

A centralized auction house would in ESO cause common items to drop in price and would allow three or four players to monopolize any rare item they wish.

You are really going to try and tell us that it is easier to manipulate a system that has over 150 independent traders than it is to manipulate a system that has one central trader? That is going to be your argument?

Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.

At least, that's how I understand it.

I would like to see an intuitive search function inside the trader menu so you can easier see if what you want is listed. This would speed up looking for items you want/need but would still require visiting many traders if you are bargain shopping. How I shop kind of depends on what I need. If it is a common item I usually just hit a main hub because prices will be similar. Higher priced items I tend to shop around more because the prices can be all over the place. Really rare items I grab as soon as I see them unless the price is silly.

I also tend to make it a point when I am out and about to go out of my way a little to hit those isolated traders and see what they have. Not because I am looking for a great bargain though I grab them when I see them but because I like buying something from them when I can.

Like anything else the trade system has players that really like it and players that really dislike it. I know a few players who play mainly because of how the trade system works. They try to hit every trader in the game at least once a week and are in three or more trade guilds. To them playing the market is the best part of the game. I don't see any reason to take that part of the game away from them especially with a system that is so easily abused.

I think some changes need to be made but a central market isn't a good idea. A search function inside the trader menu is sorely needed.

Azuramoonstar · April 2018

As someone who has played WoW, ff11, ff14 etc. I honestly prefer how ESO does it. You start getting familur with which trade guild have the best prices, and get to know which traders they snag.

Most stuff i found has been pretty cheap, for stuff i've seen in other mmo. Getting gold is easy in this game with out doing trading from my experience so far.

In ff14 basic basic stuff that is easy to get can be between 40g-10Kg

Money in ff14 not easy to make until you get a retainer. quests don't give enough gold.

radiostar · April 2018

Hanokihs wrote: »

Isn't it easier to manipulate because most buyers use the same hub spots over and over? Since the guilds like to "fix" the bidding in these kiosks so that the same groups always get the highest traffic areas, the same people make all the coin because nobody is gonna go hunting and shopping around for a thing they want. Especially without a search function.

At least, that's how I understand it.

Yes.

anitajoneb17_ESO · April 2018

Elder Forums Online proudly presents : the ever-reviving, never-dying and immortal .... (drums)... Auction House Thread !

Beardimus · April 2018

So, you have a poll about making gold, with some inefficient ways to do so and a thread about AH.

Clearly you haven't mastered the right way to make gold in the game. And are thus fighting against the system.

Tall with a trading guild GM, they will help you. We dont need a AH wrecking the ESO trading system. As a buyer I much prefer it now you just need to out some darn effort in

DoctorESO · April 2018

generalmyrick wrote: »

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

As the supply of a particular item reached infinity, the price of that item would reach zero.

Turelus · April 2018

No dead horse gif yet so posting one to make this a true AH thread.

bellatrixed · April 2018

Having extensively played WoW & SWTOR, which both have global (though server split) auction houses, I'm just kind of mind blown why people want them so bad.

They basically force you to undercut to make a quick sale or else you have to babysit your auctions.

In ESO I can list my items at MM value and they'll almost all be gone by the next day.

In TOR/WoW I'd list at 9999 and then someone else would undercut to 9998 and none of my merchandise would move unless I unlisted and relisted at 9997.

How fun...

DoctorESO · April 2018

Turelus wrote: »

No dead horse gif yet so posting one to make this a true AH thread.

DoctorESO · April 2018

bellatrixed wrote: »

Having extensively played WoW & SWTOR, which both have global (though server split) auction houses, I'm just kind of mind blown why people want them so bad.

They basically force you to undercut to make a quick sale or else you have to babysit your auctions.

In ESO I can list my items at MM value and they'll almost all be gone by the next day.

In TOR/WoW I'd list at 9999 and then someone else would undercut to 9998 and none of my merchandise would move unless I unlisted and relisted at 9997.

How fun...

It is fun for the buyers!

Betsararie · April 2018

This post title didn't make sense. What is he taking about?

Turelus · April 2018

bellatrixed wrote: »

Having extensively played WoW & SWTOR, which both have global (though server split) auction houses, I'm just kind of mind blown why people want them so bad.

They basically force you to undercut to make a quick sale or else you have to babysit your auctions.

In ESO I can list my items at MM value and they'll almost all be gone by the next day.

In TOR/WoW I'd list at 9999 and then someone else would undercut to 9998 and none of my merchandise would move unless I unlisted and relisted at 9997.

How fun...

This was one aspect I appreciated in EVE's system, you could edit your orders every x mins to just change the pennies. Rather than take everything down and relist it over and over.

generalmyrick · April 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

So, you have a poll about making gold, with some inefficient ways to do so and a thread about AH.

Clearly you haven't mastered the right way to make gold in the game. And are thus fighting against the system.

Tall with a trading guild GM, they will help you. We dont need a AH wrecking the ESO trading system. As a buyer I much prefer it now you just need to out some darn effort in

Clearly! All other possibilities are clearly, clearly, explored by you and are quite, clearly, out of the question. Thank you for your clear post and, clearly, spectacular, if not nearly translucent, logic.

Gave you an awesome for your insightful clarity. Clearly, it was me...

generalmyrick · April 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

As the supply of a particular item reached infinity, the price of that item would reach zero.

As I'm reading it, that would NEVER happen because someone would go buying it all up. Or...did I get that wrong?

Tommy_The_Gun · April 2018

Jewellery crafting was also never supposed to happen... Also I remember abundant amount of threads "make 2 handed weapon count as 2 set pcs" - oh and look what we have in new update.. hmm...

But anyway - it doesn't need to be am auction house where there are actual "auctions" going on. Just a "trading" house so it would work kind-of like a steam market.
You post an item, with a price and wait... Or if you want to buy something you search for it. Similar to a current trading guild - vendor system - except it should have some limitations (like selling & buying limited number of items per week or something like that - to keep current trading guilds relevant but offer something to smaller guilds & solo players to be an alternative to spamming zone chat with WTS xyz... because this it literally the worst trading system I have ever seen in a mmo...

Beardimus · April 2018

DoctorESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

No dead horse gif yet so posting one to make this a true AH thread.

Seriously?

Beardimus · April 2018

bellatrixed wrote: »

Having extensively played WoW & SWTOR, which both have global (though server split) auction houses, I'm just kind of mind blown why people want them so bad.

They basically force you to undercut to make a quick sale or else you have to babysit your auctions.

In ESO I can list my items at MM value and they'll almost all be gone by the next day.

In TOR/WoW I'd list at 9999 and then someone else would undercut to 9998 and none of my merchandise would move unless I unlisted and relisted at 9997.

How fun...

Nice point. Normally the pro AH guys talk about how glorious AH is in all other MMOs nice to hear the truth said about it.

Current system rewards effort. Folks can be lazy, folks want AH

DoctorESO · April 2018

Beardimus wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

No dead horse gif yet so posting one to make this a true AH thread.

DoctorESO wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

No dead horse gif yet so posting one to make this a true AH thread.

Seriously?

If you have to ask...

DoctorESO · April 2018

generalmyrick wrote: »

DoctorESO wrote: »

generalmyrick wrote: »

because the market would be too fluid.

as im farming i would be dumping everything in the market at crazy low starting bids and have a max bid that would be just below what i thought market is wanting...i'd farm this game all day making crazy money.

As the supply of a particular item reached infinity, the price of that item would reach zero.

As I'm reading it, that would NEVER happen because someone would go buying it all up. Or...did I get that wrong?

As supply reaches infinity, it would be too much for someone to buy it all up. And people wouldn't want to anyway because the item's value approaches zero.