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To The Player That Tried To Vote Kick A CP 173 Player From The Group In PUG Veteran White Gold Tower

Trinity_Is_My_Name
Trinity_Is_My_Name
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Yesterday I PUGGED Vet WGT and as soon as I ported in one of the DPS immediately voted to kick the CP 173 player which happened to be our Healer. Since we declined to kick the Healer that player immediately exited Group. I had Crown so I opted for a replacement DPS. Our Party looked like this: CP 1050 DK Tank, CP 173 Sorc Healer, CP 547 DPS (sorry, don't remember what class) and a CP 767 Magicka Sorc DPS. This turned out to be an amazing run. We blasted through the dungeon like we were in a race. When we got to the Planar Inhibitor the CP 767 DPS suggested we do the burn method on the boss. I agreed. We burned her down so quickly she never hit Blue phase and we never touched the Pinion. Quickest boss fight I had the pleasure of being part of in Vet WGT. We reached the final boss and read the scroll. Hard mode. Oh yeah. The CP 547 DPS slipped and died and the Attro spawned and locked me down. We wiped. We immediately respawned and read the scroll again. Hard Mode! We burned her quick and it was done. We ended up getting FIVE Achievements for that run including Speed Run and Hard mode and one I never knew existed: Surviving the fire of the Pinion Boss.

So for the guy or girl that instantly voted to kick someone due to low CP I hope you read this and think twice before instantly voting to kick a player. But you probably did us a favor since the replacement DPS had high skill level and a ton of damage. Give people a chance to see what they can do.
  • Guarlet
    Guarlet
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    Having a low CP healer is never going to be much of an issue. If that was a damage dealer, the run might have been a little different. I would've probably kept the healer but if there was a DD who was cp 173 in a vet DLC i would've voted to kick.

    Glad your run went great. Always fun to get all those achievements at one time.

    Yep. Having a low-CP DD in a DLC dungeon is just painful. Also good low-CP players in vet dungeons sadly tend to be the exception, not the rule. I am willing to give them a chance to prove themselves on the run (more than some would do), but if they can't pull their weight, then they are out.
    AKA The Goblinator, PC/EU
  • Arobain
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    Doubt this alot tbh; even when I used my tank DPs build that does respectable damage and I queued as tank; it wasn't this fast
    Edited by Arobain on April 26, 2018 2:15PM
  • Priyasekarssk
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    In Summerset, players have to be CP 300 to queue for Vet DLC dungeons.

    So its awesome that your run was great and the CP 173 healer was fantastic. Its a great example of why not to judge a player by their CP. I'm glad to hear it, since I'm of the option that everyone should get a chance to show they can handle themselves.

    But its not like ESO isn't also changing to reflect the reality that most players need higher CP to PUG Vet DLC dungeons effectively.

    Probably , he is a max cP noob. Low CPs are not an issue when heale or tanks. DPS CP level is real concern. Difference in raw DPS numbers alone is 50 percent between max cp vs CP160. If other factors counted , A CP 750 level player is twice powerful than than CP160 of same skill level based on raw numbers alone. Again I never equate skill with CPs. A vast majority of max cp players in this game downright noobs.

    We did same white gold tower & bloodforge on hard mode speed run with all achievements with no death. We have a tank with 225 CP and healer with 205 CP and 2 DPS around 500CP.+ & 700 CP+. We did it in no time. Tank is extremely good for his level. In fact , I would say he was one the best tank ever come across. He just group the mobs in no time. He debuffs the boss consistently , shields players at right time. Use warhorn at right time. When mobs spawn, he just pulled every mob in no time with the boss.
    Since 2 DPS are pretty strong melted mob in no time.

    For DPS CP levels does matter in veteran dungeons especially in hard mode. This is coming from a player who did assasin achievements on hard mode from all vet dungeons. Tanks & Healers CP does not matter, their skills matter a lot. For dps its extremely difficult to pull the numbers constant pace even with good skill. I can definitely support a low weight in non DLC veteran dungeons. For DLC vet dungeons on hard mode I expect my fellow DPS should be atleast 300 CP+ in addition to his skills , if I am pressing on time.

    Try to do any DLC dungeon in hard mode with 2 below 200 CP level DPS. You will understand , what I am telling.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 26, 2018 2:57PM
  • josiahva
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    Considering I first completed vWGT with 73CP as a tank...back before the nerfed the inhibitor into the ground countless times, I really dont understand why people automatically vote to kick anyone. I mean...I have sucessfully completed vROM with a CP173 and CP220 DPS just fine, people seem to act as if its the CP that matters...it doesn't matter very much honestly as long as its over 160...at that point its really up to player skill...and some people level toons almost entirely in dungeons(I know I do, even on my first toon, over half my time was spent in dungeons grinding to VR16) so some players may well surprise you.
  • Anotherone773
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    Having a low CP healer is never going to be much of an issue. If that was a damage dealer, the run might have been a little different. I would've probably kept the healer but if there was a DD who was cp 173 in a vet DLC i would've voted to kick.

    Glad your run went great. Always fun to get all those achievements at one time.

    As a healer, ive ran with some high cp characters that couldnt manage 10k dps, that couldnt take a hit, and that died every 5 minutes on trash. Ive ran with some low cp players that could hit 30k dps, moved like a cat, and knew mechanics. Which do you think i rather run with?

    Ive also ran with high cp tanks that just want to ignore taunting anything and swing a two hand. You have no idea how hard it is to heal a group when the tank wants to just DPS everything and your getting the *** beat out of you and trying to keep the actual DPS alive while the tank is all impressed with himself and telling everyone that he is carrying them.

    In real life, ive had carpenters with 2 years of experience in their early 20s that were brilliant. Ive had carpenters in their late 40s with 20 years of experience that could *** up an anvil with a rubber mallet.

    CP means nothing, experience means nothing. Life lesson.
    Edited by Anotherone773 on April 26, 2018 2:26PM
  • MaxwellC
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    I don't blame the person from leaving, I too have had my unexpected runs with low CP who done pretty good but in contrast I've had far too many of them in a vet dungeon Pug where I would spend 2 hours doing a vet dungeon that normally takes 30 mins or less.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
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    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
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    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
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  • Priyasekarssk
    Priyasekarssk
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    josiahva wrote: »
    Considering I first completed vWGT with 73CP as a tank...back before the nerfed the inhibitor into the ground countless times, I really dont understand why people automatically vote to kick anyone. I mean...I have sucessfully completed vROM with a CP173 and CP220 DPS just fine, people seem to act as if its the CP that matters...it doesn't matter very much honestly as long as its over 160...at that point its really up to player skill...and some people level toons almost entirely in dungeons(I know I do, even on my first toon, over half my time was spent in dungeons grinding to VR16) so some players may well surprise you.

    Do you really complete it in veteran hard mode ? CP levels for DPS does matter a lot for hard mode. DPS has to be both skilled as well as above 300 CP+. For veteran hardmode, you need atleast 50000+ single target with 2 dps combined with good sustain. DPS may be skilled , but you cannot get those numbers. If you want people to agree, put a video of DLC dungeons on hard mode with 2 DPS on below 200 CP levels.

    No one will believe the comments, unless its proved. Majority of vet hardmode is DPS race. And DPS CP levels matter a lot in addition to his skills.

    Again many of the decent max CP players dont kick. They simply leave themselves telling some blah blah.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 26, 2018 2:33PM
  • DMuehlhausen
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    Having a low CP healer is never going to be much of an issue. If that was a damage dealer, the run might have been a little different. I would've probably kept the healer but if there was a DD who was cp 173 in a vet DLC i would've voted to kick.

    Glad your run went great. Always fun to get all those achievements at one time.

    But why? For all you know they have been getting pulled through all vet trials and dungeons and being given gear and could be in full gold gear with the best setup and know their class. Sure they don't have max CP points used in the constellations, but that couple % points are going to make that big of a difference ultimately.

    I'm glad they are changing it to 300 I guess in Summerset. Though if any change needs to happen you should be CP 160 and be able to queue for any dungeon. I've completed the DLC dungeons, most of them with people below 300. And sure I've gotten through the original ones with people below 160. I do think though you should at least be the same level as the mobs you are going to be fightning before you can queue for the content.
  • vamp_emily
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    I'm sure it would be a different story if the low CP was a dps instead of a healer.

    I don't kick any players from dungeons but when I see a low DPS CP character in a Vet DLC dungeon I know it will not end well.


    If you want a friend, get a dog.
    AW Rank: Legate Grade 2 ( level 40 )

  • VexingArcanist
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    You do realize your PSA will likely not even be seen by whoever it was as not everyone reads the forums so this is just chest thumping...
  • Apache_Kid
    Apache_Kid
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    Having a low CP healer is never going to be much of an issue. If that was a damage dealer, the run might have been a little different. I would've probably kept the healer but if there was a DD who was cp 173 in a vet DLC i would've voted to kick.

    Glad your run went great. Always fun to get all those achievements at one time.

    As a healer, ive ran with some high cp characters that couldnt manage 10k dps, that couldnt take a hit, and that died every 5 minutes on trash. Ive ran with some low cp players that could hit 30k dps, moved like a cat, and knew mechanics. Which do you think i rather run with?

    Ive also ran with high cp tanks that just want to ignore taunting anything and swing a two hand. You have no idea how hard it is to heal a group when the tank wants to just DPS everything and your getting the *** beat out of you and trying to keep the actual DPS alive while the tank is all impressed with himself and telling everyone that he is carrying them.

    In real life, ive had carpenters with 2 years of experience in their early 20s that were brilliant. Ive had carpenters in their late 40s with 20 years of experience that could *** up an anvil with a rubber mallet.

    CP means nothing, experience means nothing. Life lesson.

    CP doesn't mean "nothing". CP gives a lot of DPS that doesn't have anything to do with skill because CP has damage and resource bonuses that give you damage.

    While yes, CP doesn't guarantee a player will have high DPS, it is a much higher probability that a CP 720 player will have higher dps than a CP 173 player. While I have had plenty of low DPS high CP players in a activity finder run before, I have had countless more low CP players who are even lower in DPS. Obviously the Devs agree with me as you now have to be CP 300 to go into vet DLC dungeons in the next update so the debate is moot really.
  • Apache_Kid
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    Having a low CP healer is never going to be much of an issue. If that was a damage dealer, the run might have been a little different. I would've probably kept the healer but if there was a DD who was cp 173 in a vet DLC i would've voted to kick.

    Glad your run went great. Always fun to get all those achievements at one time.

    But why? For all you know they have been getting pulled through all vet trials and dungeons and being given gear and could be in full gold gear with the best setup and know their class. Sure they don't have max CP points used in the constellations, but that couple % points are going to make that big of a difference ultimately.

    I'm glad they are changing it to 300 I guess in Summerset. Though if any change needs to happen you should be CP 160 and be able to queue for any dungeon. I've completed the DLC dungeons, most of them with people below 300. And sure I've gotten through the original ones with people below 160. I do think though you should at least be the same level as the mobs you are going to be fightning before you can queue for the content.

    CP adds a lot more damage than people realize. You are missing out on a lot of max resources being CP 170 compared to CP 720.

    Yeah I don't know if any player is any good or not, what I do know is that damage dealing is a difficult role to play adequately for a vet DLC dungeon for most players and there is a better chance of a high CP player being better than a low CP player. A CP 170 player probably isn't even fully geared out.
  • Priyasekarssk
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    Apache_Kid wrote: »
    Having a low CP healer is never going to be much of an issue. If that was a damage dealer, the run might have been a little different. I would've probably kept the healer but if there was a DD who was cp 173 in a vet DLC i would've voted to kick.

    Glad your run went great. Always fun to get all those achievements at one time.

    As a healer, ive ran with some high cp characters that couldnt manage 10k dps, that couldnt take a hit, and that died every 5 minutes on trash. Ive ran with some low cp players that could hit 30k dps, moved like a cat, and knew mechanics. Which do you think i rather run with?

    Ive also ran with high cp tanks that just want to ignore taunting anything and swing a two hand. You have no idea how hard it is to heal a group when the tank wants to just DPS everything and your getting the *** beat out of you and trying to keep the actual DPS alive while the tank is all impressed with himself and telling everyone that he is carrying them.

    In real life, ive had carpenters with 2 years of experience in their early 20s that were brilliant. Ive had carpenters in their late 40s with 20 years of experience that could *** up an anvil with a rubber mallet.

    CP means nothing, experience means nothing. Life lesson.

    I dont blame you. But, factor is DPS numbers are scaled with CP numbers and game mechanics is such like that.
    30K single target dps from a low CP player sustained ? Anyone can tell anything in forums. There must be some people to believe it and respond to it.
    People just ignore comments like these.

    Dont take CP numbers with skills. I already mentioned in other post , many max cp level players are noobs when compared to other games.
    You cannot expect a level 10 player with no CPs to complete veteran malestrom arena, without using any kind of exploit. No matter even best player in the world , even if ESO allowed to do that.
    For tanks & healers skills matter a lot. For DPS numbers matters and vet hard mode is DPS number game. Even world best players cannot get those numbers without good CPs.
    Again dont take CP numbers with skills. Take CP levels with numbers.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 26, 2018 6:13PM
  • Meld777
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    I made the suggestion multiple times to make only max gear level visible (max CP160) to other players and hide the rest CP, the way it was when veteran levels existed.

    Sadly, ZOS doesn't read this or doesn't care.

    @ZOS_GinaBruno Please?
    Edited by Meld777 on April 26, 2018 3:14PM
    Maelstrom Arena Champion | Undaunted | Fighters Guild Victor

    Level 50 Magicka NB | CP160+

    nAA | vCoH1 HM | nSO | nCoA2 | nDSA | nMA | vVoM

    PC EU
  • The_Brosteen
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    I bet this happened on pc na. I once had someone tell me they wouldnt do darkshade 2 on vet with anyone lower than 500cp or a dps with less than 30k.

    Darkshade 2. This person felt it warranted 30k dps requirement. It ain't that serious. You could have 30k group dps and finish fine.

    Just the mentality of alot of people on pc na, kinda ridiculous.
    PC NA
    Formerly xbox NA
  • FloppyTouch
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    I'm fine with a low cp healer not like they are really needed in most cases any heals are better then none. It's when the low cp player is a tank or dps that makes vet dungeons suck
    Edited by FloppyTouch on April 26, 2018 3:17PM
  • Feanor
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    The run wouldn’t have been as smooth with the original DD who tried to kick most likely. He was probably looking for a carry himself. ;)
    Main characters:
    Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 41 - Stormproof (PC EU)
    Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)

    Other characters:
    Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial Necromancer (lvl 8)
    Fearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)
    Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)
    Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDK
    Valirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBlade
    Turuna - AD Altmer magBlade
    Kheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDK
    Kibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - Stormproof
    Yavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWarden
    Azog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWarden
    Vidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDK
    Marquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - Stormproof
    Rawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWarden
    Tu'waccah - AD Redguard Stamplar

    All chars 50 @ CP 1000+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on Bahlokdaan PC EU.
  • Priyasekarssk
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    I bet this happened on pc na. I once had someone tell me they wouldnt do darkshade 2 on vet with anyone lower than 500cp or a dps with less than 30k.

    Darkshade 2. This person felt it warranted 30k dps requirement. It ain't that serious. You could have 30k group dps and finish fine.

    Just the mentality of alot of people on pc na, kinda ridiculous.

    Veteran mode alteast one DPS has to be above 300 CP is good for any non DLC veteran content. Othewise, you may able to complete, but brag down a lot. I dont even bother a low CP DPS with me on non DLC veteran dungeons which includes darkshade 2. I know I can easily pull it off. I dont think , 30K dps is even required for non DLC vet dungeons even on hard mode unless looking for assassin achievements for veteran dungeons.

    http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Veteran+Dungeons+Achievements


    For DLC veteran hardmode , 50000+ single target dps as a group is requirement . You people always equate CPs with skills ,which is not correct. ZOS made veteran DLC dungeons for only 300 CP+ for a reason.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 26, 2018 3:32PM
  • Priyasekarssk
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    I'm fine with a low cp healer not like they are really needed in most cases any heals are better then none. It's when the low cp player is a tank or dps that makes vet dungeons suck

    For Tanks and healers , you need good skills rather than CP levels. Support group should be aware, when to debuffs, how to group mobs with boss. Understand boss mechanics and when to shield . Most of the time what support group does is putting up buffs and debuffs, which doesn't scale much with CP levels. But, they have to use buffs/debuffs at right time and understand boss mechanics well. And there are no sustain issues when compared to DPS , and should be able to survive most of the time.

    Some of the best tanks in the game for veteran content, I have come across comes from lower CP levels. But individual experiences vary.
    Edited by Priyasekarssk on April 26, 2018 4:51PM
  • josiahva
    josiahva
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    josiahva wrote: »
    Considering I first completed vWGT with 73CP as a tank...back before the nerfed the inhibitor into the ground countless times, I really dont understand why people automatically vote to kick anyone. I mean...I have sucessfully completed vROM with a CP173 and CP220 DPS just fine, people seem to act as if its the CP that matters...it doesn't matter very much honestly as long as its over 160...at that point its really up to player skill...and some people level toons almost entirely in dungeons(I know I do, even on my first toon, over half my time was spent in dungeons grinding to VR16) so some players may well surprise you.

    Do you really complete it in veteran hard mode ? CP levels for DPS does matter a lot for hard mode. DPS has to be both skilled as well as above 300 CP+. For veteran hardmode, you need atleast 50000+ single target with 2 dps combined with good sustain. DPS may be skilled , but you cannot get those numbers. If you want people to agree, put a video of DLC dungeons on hard mode with 2 DPS on below 200 CP levels.

    No one will believe the comments, unless its proved. Majority of vet hardmode is DPS race. And DPS CP levels matter a lot in addition to his skills.

    Again many of the decent max CP players dont kick. They simply leave themselves telling some blah blah.

    lol, this is vWGT I am talking about... vet HM DOES NOT take 50k combined DPS....thats a flat out lie...I have rarely seen a group maintain that type of DPS on Kena while dealing with all the rest of the mechanics there. Most times group DPS on Kena is about 30k or so because of all the movement required, the DPS pause while she is under shield...the DPS pause while the DPS focus the atro etc, at least according to combat metrics. Anyway, the point is that high DPS is only required for a few vet DLCs in the game...50k combined is needed for...the tree minder in vROM, its needed for... the Earthgore Amalgam in vBF...for Domihaus in vFH...and that's all that comes to mind at the moment, the rest can be completed with lower DPS with a good knowledge of mechanics.

    p.s. Oh, and that rock atro boss in vBF can be a real pain if the DPS isnt high enough for his burn phase
    Edited by josiahva on April 26, 2018 3:58PM
  • Priyasekarssk
    Priyasekarssk
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    josiahva wrote: »
    josiahva wrote: »
    Considering I first completed vWGT with 73CP as a tank...back before the nerfed the inhibitor into the ground countless times, I really dont understand why people automatically vote to kick anyone. I mean...I have sucessfully completed vROM with a CP173 and CP220 DPS just fine, people seem to act as if its the CP that matters...it doesn't matter very much honestly as long as its over 160...at that point its really up to player skill...and some people level toons almost entirely in dungeons(I know I do, even on my first toon, over half my time was spent in dungeons grinding to VR16) so some players may well surprise you.

    Do you really complete it in veteran hard mode ? CP levels for DPS does matter a lot for hard mode. DPS has to be both skilled as well as above 300 CP+. For veteran hardmode, you need atleast 50000+ single target with 2 dps combined with good sustain. DPS may be skilled , but you cannot get those numbers. If you want people to agree, put a video of DLC dungeons on hard mode with 2 DPS on below 200 CP levels.

    No one will believe the comments, unless its proved. Majority of vet hardmode is DPS race. And DPS CP levels matter a lot in addition to his skills.

    Again many of the decent max CP players dont kick. They simply leave themselves telling some blah blah.

    lol, this is vWGT I am talking about... vet HM DOES NOT take 50k combined DPS....thats a flat out lie...I have rarely seen a group maintain that type of DPS on Kena while dealing with all the rest of the mechanics there. Most times group DPS on Kena is about 30k or so because of all the movement required, the DPS pause while she is under shield...the DPS pause while the DPS focus the atro etc, at least according to combat metrics. Anyway, the point is that high DPS is only required for a few vet DLCs in the game...50k combined is needed for...the tree minder in vROM, its needed for... the Earthgore Amalgam in vBF...for Domihaus in vFH...and that's all that comes to mind at the moment, the rest can be completed with lower DPS with a good knowledge of mechanics.

    p.s. Oh, and that rock atro boss in vBF can be a real pain if the DPS isnt high enough for his burn phase
    josiahva wrote: »
    josiahva wrote: »
    Considering I first completed vWGT with 73CP as a tank...back before the nerfed the inhibitor into the ground countless times, I really dont understand why people automatically vote to kick anyone. I mean...I have sucessfully completed vROM with a CP173 and CP220 DPS just fine, people seem to act as if its the CP that matters...it doesn't matter very much honestly as long as its over 160...at that point its really up to player skill...and some people level toons almost entirely in dungeons(I know I do, even on my first toon, over half my time was spent in dungeons grinding to VR16) so some players may well surprise you.

    Do you really complete it in veteran hard mode ? CP levels for DPS does matter a lot for hard mode. DPS has to be both skilled as well as above 300 CP+. For veteran hardmode, you need atleast 50000+ single target with 2 dps combined with good sustain. DPS may be skilled , but you cannot get those numbers. If you want people to agree, put a video of DLC dungeons on hard mode with 2 DPS on below 200 CP levels.

    No one will believe the comments, unless its proved. Majority of vet hardmode is DPS race. And DPS CP levels matter a lot in addition to his skills.

    Again many of the decent max CP players dont kick. They simply leave themselves telling some blah blah.

    lol, this is vWGT I am talking about... vet HM DOES NOT take 50k combined DPS....thats a flat out lie...I have rarely seen a group maintain that type of DPS on Kena while dealing with all the rest of the mechanics there. Most times group DPS on Kena is about 30k or so because of all the movement required, the DPS pause while she is under shield...the DPS pause while the DPS focus the atro etc, at least according to combat metrics. Anyway, the point is that high DPS is only required for a few vet DLCs in the game...50k combined is needed for...the tree minder in vROM, its needed for... the Earthgore Amalgam in vBF...for Domihaus in vFH...and that's all that comes to mind at the moment, the rest can be completed with lower DPS with a good knowledge of mechanics.

    p.s. Oh, and that rock atro boss in vBF can be a real pain if the DPS isnt high enough for his burn phase
    josiahva wrote: »
    josiahva wrote: »
    Considering I first completed vWGT with 73CP as a tank...back before the nerfed the inhibitor into the ground countless times, I really dont understand why people automatically vote to kick anyone. I mean...I have sucessfully completed vROM with a CP173 and CP220 DPS just fine, people seem to act as if its the CP that matters...it doesn't matter very much honestly as long as its over 160...at that point its really up to player skill...and some people level toons almost entirely in dungeons(I know I do, even on my first toon, over half my time was spent in dungeons grinding to VR16) so some players may well surprise you.

    Do you really complete it in veteran hard mode ? CP levels for DPS does matter a lot for hard mode. DPS has to be both skilled as well as above 300 CP+. For veteran hardmode, you need atleast 50000+ single target with 2 dps combined with good sustain. DPS may be skilled , but you cannot get those numbers. If you want people to agree, put a video of DLC dungeons on hard mode with 2 DPS on below 200 CP levels.

    No one will believe the comments, unless its proved. Majority of vet hardmode is DPS race. And DPS CP levels matter a lot in addition to his skills.

    Again many of the decent max CP players dont kick. They simply leave themselves telling some blah blah.

    lol, this is vWGT I am talking about... vet HM DOES NOT take 50k combined DPS....thats a flat out lie...I have rarely seen a group maintain that type of DPS on Kena while dealing with all the rest of the mechanics there. Most times group DPS on Kena is about 30k or so because of all the movement required, the DPS pause while she is under shield...the DPS pause while the DPS focus the atro etc, at least according to combat metrics. Anyway, the point is that high DPS is only required for a few vet DLCs in the game...50k combined is needed for...the tree minder in vROM, its needed for... the Earthgore Amalgam in vBF...for Domihaus in vFH...and that's all that comes to mind at the moment, the rest can be completed with lower DPS with a good knowledge of mechanics.

    p.s. Oh, and that rock atro boss in vBF can be a real pain if the DPS isnt high enough for his burn phase

    I dont want to argue for specific scenarios and bosses. My statement is very generic one . DPS should not include dps idle time.
  • Priyasekarssk
    Priyasekarssk
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    Good story. Now replace one of the high cp dds with a 173cp and read the scroll. Tell me what happens after the second immunity phase of molag kena.

    lol. You are funny.
  • Grendel_at_ESO
    Grendel_at_ESO
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    I find it funny how PvE is taken so seriously in this game. I have mostly played PvP games for the last 20 years or so and I've seen this attitude there but usually the PvE carebears are pretty good at helping out new players, not here though, seems to be the other way around.
  • Jarryzzt
    Jarryzzt
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    DPS should not include dps idle time.

    This statement confuses me.

    Possibly because I've always approached DPS as a dual concept - dummy DPS vs. live DPS. The former represents sustainable potential; the latter, what you can actually do in an environment where you have to dodge attacks, work with broken or partial rotations, handle different immunities or resistances (and you people better pray to all the dark gods no-one ever makes an SMT MMO...), deal with stuns or position displacement, interrupt burn phases with encounter mechanics, and so on.

    Granted, some boss encounters in this game might as well be dummy-like. Nevertheless. This is why I set my personal DPS benchmarks in vet dungeons against live opponents, because dummy DPS is not especially meaningful much of the time.


    On topic. One, as people have pointed out, CP 173 healer is not the same as CP 173 DPS, especially since high DPS reduces the burden on the healer specifically. Two, statistically there are great CP 173 players and awful CP 700 players, and I've seen more than a bit of both.

    Where I fault the idiot who tried to punt the healer and then ended up getting punted themselves is in that a number of vet dungeons, and WGT in particular, are very much about knowing the mechanics. CP might mean something in a trial or in content where you have to meet a DPS threshold (arguably vet Skoria, though I've had a couple of fights where we burned him down well after he blew up all of the islands - lots and lots of shield spells...). In vet HM WGT? Please...

    ...that said, statistically speaking idiots are not a small demographic in MMOs in general and MMO PUGs in particular.

  • Guarlet
    Guarlet
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    I find it funny how PvE is taken so seriously in this game. I have mostly played PvP games for the last 20 years or so and I've seen this attitude there but usually the PvE carebears are pretty good at helping out new players, not here though, seems to be the other way around.

    Well, the problem comes when you try to help new players who don't want to be helped. Also it would be too impractical and time-consuming to try and help every single new/underperforming player in dungeons, of which there are many. To those who have the patience to do so, sincerely, kudos to them-- but it is understandable why not everyone may want to do so.

    Most people have limited time to play, and repeatedly getting dragged down by a team member who does not carry their weight gets tiring. (Hence why I am glad I have a guild to do pledges with.)
    Edited by Guarlet on April 26, 2018 5:37PM
    AKA The Goblinator, PC/EU
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