Magblade changes

Ectheliontnacil · April 2018

Note: I speak from a pvp point of view.

I would like to address the issue of magblade balance changes. With the launch of morrowind, the nightblade class has undergone some major transformations. Sustain nerfs have impacted magblades greatly and the strife nerf will continue this trend of fundamentally altering the playstyle of this class.

Pre morrowind nightblades had siphoning attacks. This meant almost endless sustain, as long as you were able to weave light attacks consistently. Magblades weren't op however, they never were op in pvp. All this endless sustain did, was allow magblades to spec heavily into damage. Without 2 damage sets (e.g. spinner's, necro), magblades could not compete with sorcerer's or stamina's superior burst. The nightblade class was always about sustain! It was about elegantly maintaining a balance between healing and attacking. And it was fine that way!

Magblades never had frontloaded and easily accessible burst, so they need other perks to compensate for these shortcomings, if they're to perform well in openworld pvp.

Zenimax seems intent on completely destroying the uniqueness of this class. Even now a lot of magblades run 2h (wannabe stamblade) over a staff so they can finally move in pvp. With the massive strife nerf, crushing shock will simply be superior in every which way. Hot builds will take a hit and sustaining will become harder still. Magblades are one step closer to becoming another generic class, heavily reliant on destro skills.

Idk depending on the severity of these nerfs I might play sorc in the next patch.

Note: Yes, I'm hyped for the 2h change and for shadow image...but taking away the class spammable is very upsetting to me.

AchlysNox · April 2018

I'm fine with strife the way it is, every class should have access to spammable DPS that is cheaper than weapon skills, or else every class will simply use the weapon skill and every class will play exactly the same (kinda already happened to most stam builds).

The only thing on a nightblade that needs a nerf is Incap Strike. I'll say it again, a 70 cost ultimate on a class that gets 20 ultimate simply from drinking a potion is ridiculous. In PVP you can almost guarantee beeing hit with incap strike twice in 10 seconds if you live that long. Make it cost 120, it'd still be a cheap ultimate compared to most. At this point it's almost as spammable as strife $:\$

Ectheliontnacil · April 2018

@AchlysNox

Hmm ye I agree. Also I find it very odd, that stamblades were left untouched by the nerf hammer.

Knootewoot · April 2018

Some people believe magblade is OP because 1 or 2 guys are really good playing it (destro/restro). But the majority of the magblades die so quick when wearing light armor and especially the rare melee (dual wield) maglblades who lack the burst like their stamblade counterparts but also their movibility. A snare ruins a melee magblades day quick, which is the reason a lot of them moved to 2-handed.
Next update will ruin magblade even more but you still have the same choice like now:
play a lesser ranged sorc
play a lessesr melee stamblade

Yes, a few guys are really good playing magblade, but those same guys are even more OP when playing their stamblades or sorc or any class.
The mediocre players will have a rough time playing magblade next update. I will stick to it tough because i just don't like any other class.

Getern · April 2018

Well its not the first time, Zose destroys iconic class skills and not the last. Since 2 years they are trying to make most class weapon based for some reason, while it should exacly opposite, so u could feel the class difference.

My recommendation is to stop playing this garbage game. The only reason I stayed around ESO, is to discourage other players from it. Note: I dont play the game at all no more. I was maining Magblade for 3 years and I am feeling ripped off since 2.3 changes.

ShadowMonarch · April 2018

Knootewoot wrote: »

Some people believe magblade is OP because 1 or 2 guys are really good playing it (destro/restro). But the majority of the magblades die so quick when wearing light armor and especially the rare melee (dual wield) maglblades who lack the burst like their stamblade counterparts but also their movibility. A snare ruins a melee magblades day quick, which is the reason a lot of them moved to 2-handed.
Next update will ruin magblade even more but you still have the same choice like now:
play a lesser ranged sorc
play a lessesr melee stamblade

Yes, a few guys are really good playing magblade, but those same guys are even more OP when playing their stamblades or sorc or any class.
The mediocre players will have a rough time playing magblade next update. I will stick to it tough because i just don't like any other class.

Yup this.

Magblade has a major identity crisis and the answer is simple. ZOS has been pushing this class to be nothing more then a Bombing class, just the way it is and its something they have been pushing for a very long time.

As a long time magblade main I am actually considering other class's for summerset, simply because this class is not the class I fell in love with and its just not as fun a playstyle as it used to be. The entire Siphon skill line needs a rework. I think the only thing that has held me back from switching class is I would have to grind out my Mount speed, lorebooks, skyshards, passives, most of which should be account wide.

It wouldn't be so bad if they would just pick a direction and push us into it.

Still hoping I can make or find a tankier playstyle for magblade or a saptank maybe, we will see.

JobooAGS · April 2018

AchlysNox wrote: »

I'm fine with strife the way it is, every class should have access to spammable DPS that is cheaper than weapon skills, or else every class will simply use the weapon skill and every class will play exactly the same (kinda already happened to most stam builds).

The only thing on a nightblade that needs a nerf is Incap Strike. I'll say it again, a 70 cost ultimate on a class that gets 20 ultimate simply from drinking a potion is ridiculous. In PVP you can almost guarantee beeing hit with incap strike twice in 10 seconds if you live that long. Make it cost 120, it'd still be a cheap ultimate compared to most. At this point it's almost as spammable as strife $:\$

Unless you can seperate pvp and pve, which zos will likely never do, I will have to say a flat NO to your cost increase change. Look at the defile or the stun instead

AchlysNox · April 2018

JobooAGS wrote: »

AchlysNox wrote: »

I'm fine with strife the way it is, every class should have access to spammable DPS that is cheaper than weapon skills, or else every class will simply use the weapon skill and every class will play exactly the same (kinda already happened to most stam builds).

The only thing on a nightblade that needs a nerf is Incap Strike. I'll say it again, a 70 cost ultimate on a class that gets 20 ultimate simply from drinking a potion is ridiculous. In PVP you can almost guarantee beeing hit with incap strike twice in 10 seconds if you live that long. Make it cost 120, it'd still be a cheap ultimate compared to most. At this point it's almost as spammable as strife $:\$

Unless you can seperate pvp and pve, which zos will likely never do, I will have to say a flat NO to your cost increase change. Look at the defile or the stun instead

Incap strike is also one of the reasons that nightblades are the highest performing DPS in PVE. 20% extra damage while you proc Mechanical Acuity for 100% crits leads to some ridiculous numbers. Incap strike needs a cost nerf, not just a stun/defile nerf.

jssriot · April 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

@AchlysNox

Hmm ye I agree. Also I find it very odd, that stamblades were left untouched by the nerf hammer.

Of all the builds I've played, stamblade is probably the hardest to succeed with, in either pve or pvp. They are not easy to play, at least not well. Squishy af without the Undaunted passives, proper meta and top tier gear, plus sustain is always an issue and the meta is an effing headache. Wonder why you see so many stambaldes hanging back and cheesily spamming Snipe? LOL, that's why.

People rage at have powerful stamblades are. They're raging at a very, very small percentage of stamblade players who managed to git gud. The rest are WIP at best, although many are, and I say this out of stamblade sympatico, chronic fails.

The nightblade class heavily favors mag builds, as do all the classes. But with stamblades, just making it work is a lot harder than people who don't play stamblades realize. And if they nerfed them hard, no one except the hardcore will play them, and that's really not a good thing for this fabled "balance" thing you hear about.

JobooAGS · April 2018

AchlysNox wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

AchlysNox wrote: »

I'm fine with strife the way it is, every class should have access to spammable DPS that is cheaper than weapon skills, or else every class will simply use the weapon skill and every class will play exactly the same (kinda already happened to most stam builds).

The only thing on a nightblade that needs a nerf is Incap Strike. I'll say it again, a 70 cost ultimate on a class that gets 20 ultimate simply from drinking a potion is ridiculous. In PVP you can almost guarantee beeing hit with incap strike twice in 10 seconds if you live that long. Make it cost 120, it'd still be a cheap ultimate compared to most. At this point it's almost as spammable as strife $:\$

Unless you can seperate pvp and pve, which zos will likely never do, I will have to say a flat NO to your cost increase change. Look at the defile or the stun instead

Incap strike is also one of the reasons that nightblades are the highest performing DPS in PVE. 20% extra damage while you proc Mechanical Acuity for 100% crits leads to some ridiculous numbers. Incap strike needs a cost nerf, not just a stun/defile nerf.

You also realize it is also because of a set (War Machine) its 5 piece that with using an ultimate, you get major force for 10 seconds. That and incap are the reasons why that stamblades are in trials, they provide no other group utility except for minor savagery which can easily be put up by a magblade, and at range nonetheless. You increase the cost, you remove stamblade from endgame pve.

Wrubius_Coronaria · April 2018

AchlysNox wrote: »

I'm fine with strife the way it is, every class should have access to spammable DPS that is cheaper than weapon skills, or else every class will simply use the weapon skill and every class will play exactly the same (kinda already happened to most stam builds).

The only thing on a nightblade that needs a nerf is Incap Strike. I'll say it again, a 70 cost ultimate on a class that gets 20 ultimate simply from drinking a potion is ridiculous. In PVP you can almost guarantee beeing hit with incap strike twice in 10 seconds if you live that long. Make it cost 120, it'd still be a cheap ultimate compared to most. At this point it's almost as spammable as strife $:\$

Let's be objective a litte bit. No one is able to spam incap strike twice in 10 seconds, even with a build built for generate ultimates quickly. Unless you exaggerate dramatically trying to have sympathy from those who read?

Incapacitating strike is monotarget ultimate, can be dodged or blocked easily, that's why it's a cheap ultimate skill. Increasing its cost would be bad for stamina nightblades. And how the class was designed. There is no need to nerf it even more, really.

Believe it or not their burst is not anymore what it used to be. And killing instantly players from stealth is part of the past now. Unless they are low level players with zero impen and low max health. ^^

(this morph is also viable for magicka nightblades, there is one small counter part your damages tooltip will be lower, but no so much)

And the number you wrote are not better or objective neither to justify your request for nerfing it.

Let's compare it to dawnbreaker, it cost 125 ultimates, it's undodgeable, aoe stun, aoe damages and damages over time.

Incap strike, mono target, 70 ultimates, major defile, increased damages, stun.

Instead of nerfing endlessly (which led us to homogeneous classes mostly that we have nowadays) , I sugget to see where are the problems with some skills and mechanics, i.e. snares, roots and mobilty to begin with.

I think snares and roots are what causing problems mainly to magicka nightblades actually. That's why zenimax should think giving snare removal from cloak. And revert a bit the sustain nerf (for all classes). Which is in my opinion has been nerfed too much.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Note: I speak from a pvp point of view.

I would like to address the issue of magblade balance changes. With the launch of morrowind, the nightblade class has undergone some major transformations. Sustain nerfs have impacted magblades greatly and the strife nerf will continue this trend of fundamentally altering the playstyle of this class.

Pre morrowind nightblades had siphoning attacks. This meant almost endless sustain, as long as you were able to weave light attacks consistently. Magblades weren't op however, they never were op in pvp. All this endless sustain did, was allow magblades to spec heavily into damage. Without 2 damage sets (e.g. spinner's, necro), magblades could not compete with sorcerer's or stamina's superior burst. The nightblade class was always about sustain! It was about elegantly maintaining a balance between healing and attacking. And it was fine that way!

Magblades never had frontloaded and easily accessible burst, so they need other perks to compensate for these shortcomings, if they're to perform well in openworld pvp.

Zenimax seems intent on completely destroying the uniqueness of this class. Even now a lot of magblades run 2h (wannabe stamblade) over a staff so they can finally move in pvp. With the massive strife nerf, crushing shock will simply be superior in every which way. Hot builds will take a hit and sustaining will become harder still. Magblades are one step closer to becoming another generic class, heavily reliant on destro skills.

Idk depending on the severity of these nerfs I might play sorc in the next patch.

Note: Yes, I'm hyped for the 2h change and for shadow image...but taking away the class spammable is very upsetting to me.

The cost increase of strife is not the end of the class.

I don't agree with this nerf because it reduce the sustain even more. Who has already been nerfed so much with Morrowind. (or should I say Nerfowind?)

But honestly, the nerf is not really significant, on PTS strife cost 2300 magicka with 5 pieces of light armor, which is only 600 more in comparison of live server.

Ectheliontnacil · April 2018

Caitsith wrote: »

I think snares and roots are what causing problems mainly to magicka nightblades actually. That's why zenimax should think giving snare removal from cloak. And revert a bit the sustain nerf (for all classes). Which is in my opinion has been nerfed too much.

Yep, snares hurt magblades most of all magicka classes. I posted a couple of threads addressing this issue, but zeni gave dks snare removal. Thx a lot.

Caitsith wrote: »

The cost increase of strife is not the end of the class.

I don't agree with this nerf because it reduce the sustain even more. Who has already been nerfed so much with Morrowind. (or should I say Nerfowind?)

But honestly, the nerf is not really significant, on PTS strife cost 2300 magicka with 5 pieces of light armor, which is only 600 more in comparison of live server.

Well a 600 cost increase is 1,2k regen loss, when spamcasting the ability. And even in a regular pvp or pve e rotation I would estimate this to equal a 300-500 regen loss.

And I didn't say this change would break the class, I said it would be inferior to crushing shock in almost every way. My point is, that Zeni's nerfing yet another class spammable into uselessness. Now magblade is even more of a wannabe sorc

.

AchlysNox · April 2018

Caitsith wrote: »

Let's be objective a litte bit. No one is able to spam incap strike twice in 10 seconds, even with a build built for generate ultimates quickly. Unless you exaggerate dramatically trying to have sympathy from those who read?

I wouldn't call that a dramatic exaggeration. Pop a potion and get 20 ultimate, now you just have to generate 50 ultimate in 10 seconds. You get 30 simply from completely normal generation, and the last 20 you can get from a number of sources - minor/major heroism, 2-H asylum weapon, soul harvest, champion point passives and/or ultimate generating set bonuses.

No, a getting double hit by incap strike in around 10 seconds is not that unusual in battlegrounds PVP.

Ectheliontnacil · April 2018

@AchlysNox

You also generate 20 ulti for killing a player with the initial incap burst, if you have the AvA passive.

JobooAGS · April 2018

AchlysNox wrote: »

Caitsith wrote: »

Let's be objective a litte bit. No one is able to spam incap strike twice in 10 seconds, even with a build built for generate ultimates quickly. Unless you exaggerate dramatically trying to have sympathy from those who read?

I wouldn't call that a dramatic exaggeration. Pop a potion and get 20 ultimate, now you just have to generate 50 ultimate in 10 seconds. You get 30 simply from completely normal generation, and the last 20 you can get from a number of sources - minor/major heroism, 2-H asylum weapon, soul harvest, champion point passives and/or ultimate generating set bonuses.

No, a getting double hit by incap strike in around 10 seconds is not that unusual in battlegrounds PVP.

You cannot have incap and soul harvest that the same time? Plus with soul harvest you need to get kills with it slotted to benefit. For 2h asylum to really benefit, the target would need to be at low hp, which means you are likely dead anyway. Major and minor heroism outside of sets would require snb and for you to be less than 20% hp. If you are using sets to aquire these buffs you are not using other set combinations that work better overall, although bloodspawn is very useful.

Wrubius_Coronaria · April 2018

AchlysNox wrote: »

Caitsith wrote: »

Let's be objective a litte bit. No one is able to spam incap strike twice in 10 seconds, even with a build built for generate ultimates quickly. Unless you exaggerate dramatically trying to have sympathy from those who read?

I wouldn't call that a dramatic exaggeration. Pop a potion and get 20 ultimate, now you just have to generate 50 ultimate in 10 seconds. You get 30 simply from completely normal generation, and the last 20 you can get from a number of sources - minor/major heroism, 2-H asylum weapon, soul harvest, champion point passives and/or ultimate generating set bonuses.

No, a getting double hit by incap strike in around 10 seconds is not that unusual in battlegrounds PVP.

OK then, provide me some maths and facts, if it's possible. Which is obviously not possible in my opinion. Maths on paper and testing this in fight are 2 differents things. Because that's cool to write a list of buffs and bonuses and not giving attention how they work. But, alsot I forgot to add you can't use use 2 differents morphs of the same skill / ultimate.

Using a potion highly depend of the situation, hitting successfully your opponent is not 100% guaranteed with your finisher for proc asylum 2h enchant (if you use it at least), same with killing an opponent (it requires some efforts and often to use your ultimate for burst), etc... And I'm not counting the time spent to kite if you are outnumbered and so on.

I've played nightblade a main since release, (all kinds of builds and both magicka and stamina, even weird hybrids builds sometimes), played a lot pvp (I got grand overlord one year ago), both battlegrounds and cyrodiil and I've never been hit by 2 incap strike from the same player in 10 seconds as you are saying again. Never, not even once. Or never did it myself.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Yep, snares hurt magblades most of all magicka classes. I posted a couple of threads addressing this issue, but zeni gave dks snare removal. Thx a lot.

I think the zenimax logic is: shadow image does not requite anymore to target one opponent for casting it, then it's a buff to mobility (which is not false), hence this class does not need a snare removal.

If that's how they see that, I don't agree at all with them. Because snares and roots are really too many and out of control. And the tools for counter them should be more varied.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Well a 600 cost increase is 1,2k regen loss, when spamcasting the ability. And even in a regular pvp or pve e rotation I would estimate this to equal a 300-500 regen loss.

And I didn't say this change would break the class, I said it would be inferior to crushing shock in almost every way. My point is, that Zeni's nerfing yet another class spammable into uselessness. Now magblade is even more of a wannabe sorc .

From my point of view, I see a lot of magicka nightblade playing ranged builds spamming strife, and just a few are playing melee in pvp.
I have the feeling strife is used mainly because of its lower cost and its effects. I admit they are quite powerfull.
http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Strife

Personally, I always slot this skill (aslo for heal over time and increased heals), because concealed weapon cost too much, same for crushing shock. But also because their others effects does not interest me as strife.
I understand when zenimax says they increase its cost to align it with the second skill mentionned above, but that's just another step into homogenization of classes and skills.

About magicka loss and regen, I can't reply, I have to calculate it first, but I'm sure it will be manageable and barely noticable.

exeeter702 · April 2018

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Caitsith wrote: »

I think snares and roots are what causing problems mainly to magicka nightblades actually. That's why zenimax should think giving snare removal from cloak. And revert a bit the sustain nerf (for all classes). Which is in my opinion has been nerfed too much.

Yep, snares hurt magblades most of all magicka classes. I posted a couple of threads addressing this issue, but zeni gave dks snare removal. Thx a lot.

Caitsith wrote: »

The cost increase of strife is not the end of the class.

I don't agree with this nerf because it reduce the sustain even more. Who has already been nerfed so much with Morrowind. (or should I say Nerfowind?)

But honestly, the nerf is not really significant, on PTS strife cost 2300 magicka with 5 pieces of light armor, which is only 600 more in comparison of live server.

Well a 600 cost increase is 1,2k regen loss, when spamcasting the ability. And even in a regular pvp or pve e rotation I would estimate this to equal a 300-500 regen loss.

And I didn't say this change would break the class, I said it would be inferior to crushing shock in almost every way. My point is, that Zeni's nerfing yet another class spammable into uselessness. Now magblade is even more of a wannabe sorc .

Its inferior to pulse in raw damage, as it has always been. You dont get to ommit the obvious strengths of strife when weighing the abilities side by side. Strife has utility baked into it that easily qualify it to be on the same tier as pulse. Magblades always would use pulse if they wanted the highest damage in a rotation.

This ridiculous notiion that class abilities should for some reason be weighted differently becuase they are class abilities needs to stop. That is not how this game is designed. Do you want more damage for a 28m cast? You get to use pulse, do you want to bring the unique strength of magnbs 28m cast(healing, ult gen) then take your pick. Resource cost is no longer the factor. Both abilities are weighted exactly the same. As it should be. Ive said it nunerous times, but the cost of each skill should be matched, but the base cost should not be 2700 to begin with.

I swear m its like sone people will only be content, when classes becone COMPLETELY independent and are able to perform each role exclusively with class skills, and weapon skill lines devolve into glorified stat sticks with baked in passives.

If sorcs had their own 28m casted ability that hit as hard as FP and costed 2700 but had different criteria to use or different functionality (like wardens dive), would nb still be a sorc wannabe? Force pulse "belongs" on sorc no less than it "belongs" on a NB if maximum dps is the end desire. It just so happens that nbs have a unique 28m anagolous skill that fills a different niche.

Datthaw · April 2018

Caitsith wrote: »

AchlysNox wrote: »

Caitsith wrote: »

Let's be objective a litte bit. No one is able to spam incap strike twice in 10 seconds, even with a build built for generate ultimates quickly. Unless you exaggerate dramatically trying to have sympathy from those who read?

I wouldn't call that a dramatic exaggeration. Pop a potion and get 20 ultimate, now you just have to generate 50 ultimate in 10 seconds. You get 30 simply from completely normal generation, and the last 20 you can get from a number of sources - minor/major heroism, 2-H asylum weapon, soul harvest, champion point passives and/or ultimate generating set bonuses.

No, a getting double hit by incap strike in around 10 seconds is not that unusual in battlegrounds PVP.

OK then, provide me some maths and facts, if it's possible. Which is obviously not possible in my opinion. Maths on paper and testing this in fight are 2 differents things. Because that's cool to write a list of buffs and bonuses and not giving attention how they work. But, alsot I forgot to add you can't use use 2 differents morphs of the same skill / ultimate.

Using a potion highly depend of the situation, hitting successfully your opponent is not 100% guaranteed with your finisher for proc asylum 2h enchant (if you use it at least), same with killing an opponent (it requires some efforts and often to use your ultimate for burst), etc... And I'm not counting the time spent to kite if you are outnumbered and so on.

I've played nightblade a main since release, (all kinds of builds and both magicka and stamina, even weird hybrids builds sometimes), played a lot pvp (I got grand overlord one year ago), both battlegrounds and cyrodiil and I've never been hit by 2 incap strike from the same player in 10 seconds as you are saying again. Never, not even once. Or never did it myself.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Yep, snares hurt magblades most of all magicka classes. I posted a couple of threads addressing this issue, but zeni gave dks snare removal. Thx a lot.

I think the zenimax logic is: shadow image does not requite anymore to target one opponent for casting it, then it's a buff to mobility (which is not false), hence this class does not need a snare removal.

If that's how they see that, I don't agree at all with them. Because snares and roots are really too many and out of control. And the tools for counter them should be more varied.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Well a 600 cost increase is 1,2k regen loss, when spamcasting the ability. And even in a regular pvp or pve e rotation I would estimate this to equal a 300-500 regen loss.

And I didn't say this change would break the class, I said it would be inferior to crushing shock in almost every way. My point is, that Zeni's nerfing yet another class spammable into uselessness. Now magblade is even more of a wannabe sorc .

From my point of view, I see a lot of magicka nightblade playing ranged builds spamming strife, and just a few are playing melee in pvp.
I have the feeling strife is used mainly because of its lower cost and its effects. I admit they are quite powerfull.

Personally, I always slot this skill, because concealed weapon cost too much, same for crushing shock.
I understand when zenimax says they increase its cost to align it with the second skill mentionned above, but that's just another step into homogenization of classes and skills.

About magicka loss and regen, I can't reply, I have to calculate it first, but I'm sure it will be manageable and barely noticable.

Lol this is exactly what zos it thinking. Better drop that image behind a rock. Problem you really get 1 image and it better be well placed. Otherwise cc snare gapclose and you're standing on top your new image and can't make distance from it.

Kuramas9tails · April 2018

I love my mageblade. Always have. It's more forgiving than a stamblade which that's how I started. I never found my Mageblade better than my MagicSorc in any way but I still love her.

jao0199 · April 2018

Those who are saying that magblades still need more nerfs:
just look into magdk, the new meta for summerset. You'll realize whats op. Unkillable with high burst in pvp. Just see...

jrgray93 · April 2018

Not saying I disagree with the points made here but magblade easily has the highest performance ceiling. It doesn't matter if it's just the good players who reach it, a good magblade in PvP is almost unstoppable and can shred you in seconds with their absurd kit. Incap is ridiculous, for starters. Then again, I'm saying this as the dumpster fire that is magicka templar.

Ectheliontnacil · April 2018

jrgray93 wrote: »

Not saying I disagree with the points made here but magblade easily has the highest performance ceiling. It doesn't matter if it's just the good players who reach it, a good magblade in PvP is almost unstoppable and can shred you in seconds with their absurd kit. Incap is ridiculous, for starters. Then again, I'm saying this as the dumpster fire that is magicka templar.

I am not saying I disagree with you either

. But at the same time I cant completely agree with your argument.

It is very important to differentiate between 1v1s or duels and openworld pvp. 1v1 magblades are really good, openworld not so much. I don't mean to sound vain here but I think I am among the best magblades on PC EU, so I do know how strong the class is when played well.

The main issue, as I see it, is the fact that openworld pvp is too dynamic for magblades. Magblades have a deadly rotation and build up insane burst, but they need time to do this. When fighting in openworld or 1vXing, you don't have much control of the fight, you need to be able to kite/heal/reset and burst within a short window of time. In all of these areas nightblades are comparatively weak.

Best to illustrate what I mean with an example: Openworld magsorcs are a joke in 1v1s. Unless they run some cheesy setup or camp mines, you can obliterate even the best magsorcs. At best they'll be able to tank your dmg, but that's it.

In openworld pvp magsorcs have it so much easier than magblades though. They have a reliable source of mobility, they have 3 shields making them more tanky AND they have an easily accessible burst combo that potentially has an over 50k tooltip.

But well this isn't a thread about overall pvp balance. Just wanted to say that strife was an unnecessary nerf.

jrgray93 · April 2018

That makes sense. All of my gripes with magblades are in non-CP, small-scale, or 1v1 scenarios. I haven't considered their viability in open world. Funny enough, magplar feels to be the absolute opposite in that regard. We only excel when we have other players around us.

Ectheliontnacil · April 2018

jao0199 wrote: »

Those who are saying that magblades still need more nerfs:
just look into magdk, the new meta for summerset. You'll realize whats op. Unkillable with high burst in pvp. Just see...

Magdk will be very powerful for sure

.

red_emu · April 2018

Just remove classes all together ZOS. MagBlade is a very very squishy spec in non-CP. Does pulse heal me for 25%? No! So why compare those two skills? Why not increase the cost of mages wrath so it's on par with dizzying swing? Why not increase the cost of inner fire because it's cheaper than some class/weapon ability? It doesn't make sense! Strife is a ultility spam that keeps us alive! You already nerfed refreshing path that heals for like 700 hp a sec. Why do you design a class that's clearly meant to be a blood mage (all skills unmorphed cost magica) and then force it to be a bowtard?

Ectheliontnacil · April 2018

@red_emu

Yes, I don't understand either, why all spammable abilities need to have the same cost. Crushing shock for instance has a number of perks that strife doesn't have (interrupt, non reflectable, more penetration, elemental dmg, and unlocks the destro passive), imo that explains the higher cost.

Also I think class abilities should always be more effective. If a class lacks a certain ability, that's because they're strong in other areas. So having to resort to a (weaker) weapon ability is a way of balancing classes that are already strong.

Sorcs are the perfect example of this. They have awesome burst and an execute along with powerful passives BUT they need to use a more expensive spammable than magblades

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Massive_Stain · April 2018

Caitsith wrote: »

AchlysNox wrote: »

I'm fine with strife the way it is, every class should have access to spammable DPS that is cheaper than weapon skills, or else every class will simply use the weapon skill and every class will play exactly the same (kinda already happened to most stam builds).

The only thing on a nightblade that needs a nerf is Incap Strike. I'll say it again, a 70 cost ultimate on a class that gets 20 ultimate simply from drinking a potion is ridiculous. In PVP you can almost guarantee beeing hit with incap strike twice in 10 seconds if you live that long. Make it cost 120, it'd still be a cheap ultimate compared to most. At this point it's almost as spammable as strife $:\$

Let's be objective a litte bit. No one is able to spam incap strike twice in 10 seconds, even with a build built for generate ultimates quickly. Unless you exaggerate dramatically trying to have sympathy from those who read?

Incapacitating strike is monotarget ultimate, can be dodged or blocked easily, that's why it's a cheap ultimate skill. Increasing its cost would be bad for stamina nightblades. And how the class was designed. There is no need to nerf it even more, really.

Believe it or not their burst is not anymore what it used to be. And killing instantly players from stealth is part of the past now. Unless they are low level players with zero impen and low max health. ^^

(this morph is also viable for magicka nightblades, there is one small counter part your damages tooltip will be lower, but no so much)

And the number you wrote are not better or objective neither to justify your request for nerfing it.

Let's compare it to dawnbreaker, it cost 125 ultimates, it's undodgeable, aoe stun, aoe damages and damages over time.

Incap strike, mono target, 70 ultimates, major defile, increased damages, stun.

Instead of nerfing endlessly (which led us to homogeneous classes mostly that we have nowadays) , I sugget to see where are the problems with some skills and mechanics, i.e. snares, roots and mobilty to begin with.

I think snares and roots are what causing problems mainly to magicka nightblades actually. That's why zenimax should think giving snare removal from cloak. And revert a bit the sustain nerf (for all classes). Which is in my opinion has been nerfed too much.

Ectheliontnacil wrote: »

Note: I speak from a pvp point of view.

I would like to address the issue of magblade balance changes. With the launch of morrowind, the nightblade class has undergone some major transformations. Sustain nerfs have impacted magblades greatly and the strife nerf will continue this trend of fundamentally altering the playstyle of this class.

Pre morrowind nightblades had siphoning attacks. This meant almost endless sustain, as long as you were able to weave light attacks consistently. Magblades weren't op however, they never were op in pvp. All this endless sustain did, was allow magblades to spec heavily into damage. Without 2 damage sets (e.g. spinner's, necro), magblades could not compete with sorcerer's or stamina's superior burst. The nightblade class was always about sustain! It was about elegantly maintaining a balance between healing and attacking. And it was fine that way!

Magblades never had frontloaded and easily accessible burst, so they need other perks to compensate for these shortcomings, if they're to perform well in openworld pvp.

Zenimax seems intent on completely destroying the uniqueness of this class. Even now a lot of magblades run 2h (wannabe stamblade) over a staff so they can finally move in pvp. With the massive strife nerf, crushing shock will simply be superior in every which way. Hot builds will take a hit and sustaining will become harder still. Magblades are one step closer to becoming another generic class, heavily reliant on destro skills.

Idk depending on the severity of these nerfs I might play sorc in the next patch.

Note: Yes, I'm hyped for the 2h change and for shadow image...but taking away the class spammable is very upsetting to me.

The cost increase of strife is not the end of the class.

I don't agree with this nerf because it reduce the sustain even more. Who has already been nerfed so much with Morrowind. (or should I say Nerfowind?)

But honestly, the nerf is not really significant, on PTS strife cost 2300 magicka with 5 pieces of light armor, which is only 600 more in comparison of live server.

This ^ stop crying for cost increases, ya babies.

Ectheliontnacil · April 2018

@Massive_Stain

Yep, all these sustain nerfs do, is make the game more sluggish.

I remember Zos saying they wanted the game to be more fast paced with the morrowind changes!

D0PAMINE · April 2018

Strife wasnt nerfed, it was increased in cost. My magicka reserve is pitiful on my MagNB and I didnt notice the cost increase, even while sustaining kena.

ccfeeling · April 2018

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Strife wasnt nerfed, it was increased in cost. My magicka reserve is pitiful on my MagNB and I didnt notice the cost increase, even while sustaining kena.

Magblade with kena ms set and no sustain problem?

Have u test on skelly?

D0PAMINE · April 2018

ccfeeling wrote: »

D0PAMINE wrote: »

Strife wasnt nerfed, it was increased in cost. My magicka reserve is pitiful on my MagNB and I didnt notice the cost increase, even while sustaining kena.

Magblade with kena ms set and no sustain problem?

Have u test on skelly?

I've actually never compared with or without kena as i've been using the set since pre Morrowind. You need to use a HA after kena proc is over. Im using War Maiden + Julianos with the usual Witchmothers.