ESO vs TES *opinion

Vhozek · April 2018

Anyone else feel something wrong with ESO? I started out TES games with Skyrim and I'm currently playing Morrowind (TES3). I noticed something different when I decided to play both ESO and Morrowind at the same time. The other TES games feel FAR more alive. I don't know what it is, but ESO npc and enemies just feel like fixed algorithms.

Lyserus · April 2018

because melee and magic fighting always suck in all TES including eso, and the most fun way of fighting in other TES games, stealth bow/blade, and the entire stealth system in eso, is quite useless in pve except for few dark brotherhood/ thief guild dailies.

But I guess it's only part of the reason.
ESO's enemy doesn't look around, barely chat, and they eithet find you or they give up trying to find you in an instance.
Also there is “geography”. Having high ground doesn't give you advantage, you can't keep stealth even if you are in dark/ out of enemy sight in a dungeon fight, and most of boss fight are in plain ground with little interaction with its surroundings. There are many things a MMO can't do that single player games can.

I strongly recommend nHOF trial tho, it has the most fun and challenging mechnics for casual players, the bosses are actually unique

Gythral · April 2018

its TSR vs Chaosium

Aliyavana · April 2018

Mmos tend to be less realistic for far too many reasons to list. I'm grateful zos captured the tes feel in an mmo

Mannox · April 2018

I have what I think is an unpopular opinion. I don't find ESO to be at all like a proper TES game. Every TES game that has come out always tried to add something new to the lore and especially the gameplay. It was never a mockery or a parody of itself. I find ESO to be a weak parody of Skyrim. ZOS, I think, went to some effort to make sure ESO felt awkward so that it could mimic as many summary experiences of Skyrim as it could. I see it in the combat, the lore, the movement. Everywhere. Even the 'floaty' jumping characters have. So much of what one encounters in ESO is bloated. Just look at the quests. So tremendously trite or tacky that I don't even bother to read or listen anymore. For me that's sad because I'm not the type to skip interesting writing or lore. My mind is able to predict nearly every NPC venture and their words. That's not because I'm clever It's just not a proper TES game to me and probably I never will consider it to be. I know ESO has been accepted as official but I don't care. To me its something of sham.

AlienatedGoat · April 2018

Mannox wrote: »

I have what I think is an unpopular opinion. I don't find ESO to be at all like a proper TES game. Every TES game that has come out always tried to add something new to the lore and especially the gameplay. It was never a mockery or a parody of itself. I find ESO to be a weak parody of Skyrim. ZOS, I think, went to some effort to make sure ESO felt awkward so that it could mimic as many summary experiences of Skyrim as it could. I see it in the combat, the lore, the movement. Everywhere. Even the 'floaty' jumping characters have. So much of what one encounters in ESO is bloated. Just look at the quests. So tremendously trite or tacky that I don't even bother to read or listen anymore. For me that's sad because I'm not the type to skip interesting writing or lore. My mind is able to predict nearly every NPC venture and their words. That's not because I'm clever It's just not a proper TES game to me and probably I never will consider it to be. I know ESO has been accepted as official but I don't care. To me its something of sham.

And yet here you are. Obviously you can't think the game is that bad if you're here.

AlienatedGoat · April 2018

There is no versus.

ESO is TES.

Anyone who thinks it isn't is wrong.

Aliyavana · April 2018

Mannox wrote: »

I have what I think is an unpopular opinion. I don't find ESO to be at all like a proper TES game. Every TES game that has come out always tried to add something new to the lore and especially the gameplay. It was never a mockery or a parody of itself. I find ESO to be a weak parody of Skyrim. ZOS, I think, went to some effort to make sure ESO felt awkward so that it could mimic as many summary experiences of Skyrim as it could. I see it in the combat, the lore, the movement. Everywhere. Even the 'floaty' jumping characters have. So much of what one encounters in ESO is bloated. Just look at the quests. So tremendously trite or tacky that I don't even bother to read or listen anymore. For me that's sad because I'm not the type to skip interesting writing or lore. My mind is able to predict nearly every NPC venture and their words. That's not because I'm clever It's just not a proper TES game to me and probably I never will consider it to be. I know ESO has been accepted as official but I don't care. To me its something of sham.

Are you seriously mocking eso's quest lines? Skyrims characters are pretty unimaginative and forgettable and eso has far better written sidequests and character and to call eso a parody of skyrim is an insult. Most of my gameplay sessions after the first playthrough were hoping I don't get sent to the same Nordic ruin because after you visit one you visited them all. And eso has added more to the lore of the tes universe than any other single elder scrolls game has

AlienatedGoat · April 2018

Aliyavana wrote: »

Mannox wrote: »

I have what I think is an unpopular opinion. I don't find ESO to be at all like a proper TES game. Every TES game that has come out always tried to add something new to the lore and especially the gameplay. It was never a mockery or a parody of itself. I find ESO to be a weak parody of Skyrim. ZOS, I think, went to some effort to make sure ESO felt awkward so that it could mimic as many summary experiences of Skyrim as it could. I see it in the combat, the lore, the movement. Everywhere. Even the 'floaty' jumping characters have. So much of what one encounters in ESO is bloated. Just look at the quests. So tremendously trite or tacky that I don't even bother to read or listen anymore. For me that's sad because I'm not the type to skip interesting writing or lore. My mind is able to predict nearly every NPC venture and their words. That's not because I'm clever It's just not a proper TES game to me and probably I never will consider it to be. I know ESO has been accepted as official but I don't care. To me its something of sham.

Are you seriously mocking eso's quest lines? Skyrims characters are pretty unimaginative and forgettable and eso has far better written sidequests and character and to call eso a parody of skyrim is an insult.

Yeah I'd agree. There are some great storylines in ESO.

Honestly, its the Skyrim fanboys that are the most annoying. They invoke Skyrim like it is the perfect game, and the best TES title, and it is far from both. Those of us who actually grew up with and played games like Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion know that.

CatchMeTrolling · April 2018

No reason to compare an mmo to a single player game, they’ll always feel different. But personally I do think they have captured TES pretty well, and I’ll play this mmo over any other because of the fact it’s rooted in TES lore.

Only thing that’s not alive about the game is the npcs don’t do their own thing but in some ways they contribute to the story still. When you complete certain quests or manage a certain feat they’ll know. Where as in other TES related games you can do something extraordinary and no one knows, even though it’s a quest. They all have their flaws if you want to dig deep into it.

Quest wise the writers actually did a good job, if you follow what’s going on you’ll see that they’re good stories.

SydneyGrey · April 2018

I think they might feel more alive just because in ESO there are so many people who are constantly breaking our immersion. In previous games, we could get 100% into the story without any immersion-breaking flaming camels (or whatever) running past us.

Phage wrote: »

Honestly, its the Skyrim fanboys that are the most annoying. They invoke Skyrim like it is the perfect game, and the best TES title, and it is far from both. Those of us who actually grew up with and played games like Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion know that.

Some of us ALSO grew up with and played Daggerfall, Morrowind (original) and Oblivion, and still think Skyrim was the best out of the bunch. I didn't play Daggerfall, but I played and loved all the others. It's just personal preference. Your personal preference is different; it's no reason to be condescending and rude just because someone liked Skyrim better.

Mannox · April 2018

Phage wrote: »

Mannox wrote: »

I have what I think is an unpopular opinion. I don't find ESO to be at all like a proper TES game. Every TES game that has come out always tried to add something new to the lore and especially the gameplay. It was never a mockery or a parody of itself. I find ESO to be a weak parody of Skyrim. ZOS, I think, went to some effort to make sure ESO felt awkward so that it could mimic as many summary experiences of Skyrim as it could. I see it in the combat, the lore, the movement. Everywhere. Even the 'floaty' jumping characters have. So much of what one encounters in ESO is bloated. Just look at the quests. So tremendously trite or tacky that I don't even bother to read or listen anymore. For me that's sad because I'm not the type to skip interesting writing or lore. My mind is able to predict nearly every NPC venture and their words. That's not because I'm clever It's just not a proper TES game to me and probably I never will consider it to be. I know ESO has been accepted as official but I don't care. To me its something of sham.

And yet here you are. Obviously you can't think the game is that bad if you're here.

I don't. There's a lot I enjoy about ESO. I'm also a longtime fan of MMOs. What I wrote earlier is my opinion on the narrative and setting. Although I will leave if the monetization continues to get worse.

Xoelarasizerer · April 2018

Well considering that ESO, an MMORPG, is a different kinda game from a different dev team to Morrowind, Oblivion and Skyrim, that were all made to be Single player sandbox FPSRPGs...

Then yes! I can certainly see a different set of priorities to match the different kind of game and it's genre. Is it something I feel is wrong? No. ESO handles and plays like a decent MMO (best? probably not, I've only ever played one other MMO so I don't call myself an expert in the genre.)

Beyond your own opinion and preference, it's not worse: it's different.

Mannox wrote: »

I have what I think is an unpopular opinion. I don't find ESO to be at all like a proper TES game. Every TES game that has come out always tried to add something new to the lore and especially the gameplay.

ESO adds alot to the lore, regardless of if you feel it's a parody, sham or uninteresting. I think ESO has way better writing at a number of parts than Skyrim could ever dream of. And certainly dosen't rehash the exact same gameplay as the Bethesda games, due to obvious reasons above. So I'd count it as something new to the gameplay.

Ilithyania · April 2018

Vhozek wrote: »

Anyone else feel something wrong with ESO? I started out TES games with Skyrim and I'm currently playing Morrowind (TES3). I noticed something different when I decided to play both ESO and Morrowind at the same time. The other TES games feel FAR more alive. I don't know what it is, but ESO npc and enemies just feel like fixed algorithms.

MMORPG vs single player RPG

Two very different gametypes

ESO is NOT TES6

AlienatedGoat · April 2018

SydneyGrey wrote: »

I think they might feel more alive just because in ESO there are so many people who are constantly breaking our immersion. In previous games, we could get 100% into the story without any immersion-breaking flaming camels (or whatever) running past us.

Phage wrote: »

Honestly, its the Skyrim fanboys that are the most annoying. They invoke Skyrim like it is the perfect game, and the best TES title, and it is far from both. Those of us who actually grew up with and played games like Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion know that.

Some of us ALSO grew up with and played Daggerfall, Morrowind (original) and Oblivion, and still think Skyrim was the best out of the bunch. I didn't play Daggerfall, but I played and loved all the others. It's just personal preference. Your personal preference is different; it's no reason to be condescending and rude just because someone liked Skyrim better.

Skyrim is objectively a worse RPG. It is watered down compared to the others. That is a fact.

Nothing I said was rude or condescending. Skyrim fanboys who never played the other TES titles or never gave them as much playtime are annoying. These are the same fanboys that were everywhere at ESO launch and utterly trashed the game because it wasn't Skyrim. Those fanboys are annoying. I stand by that. Especially the ones that trash the other games without having even played them. I would like to throw them all into Red Mountain.

Also, Daggerfall is life.

TheShadowScout · April 2018

Vhozek wrote: »

I don't know what it is, but ESO npc and enemies just feel like fixed algorithms.

That is exactly what it is.

In other TES games, they could spend a great deal more processing resources on making all the NPCs act more "alive" - in a MMO game, all that would have to be shared among all participients, making the data transfer bottleneck all the worse, and thus they put all the NPCs on "bare minimum" action scope so they can have the game go more smoothly for all the players.

Makes you wish we had computers and data transfer methods advanced enough to do it all, huh? And then wish we also had "full dive" technology to play ESO SAO-style...

AzraelKrieg · April 2018

Comparing a single player to an MMO is the worst thing you can do since they are vastly different beasts.

LordSkyKnight · April 2018

Theme park MMO vs a single player offline open world rpg. What didn't help at release was the fact that all those teenagers wanted a Skyrim 2 online and didn't understand the differences between the two game types. To this day when they post on social media those toxic window lickers still flood the posts screaming for a Elder Scrolls 6. Often times not even understanding that it's two completely different studios that work on the games.

mwo1480 · April 2018

Phage wrote: »

There is no versus.

ESO is TES.

Anyone who thinks it isn't is wrong.

both zos and beth confirmed it, but think the OP ask about how the solo games feel more alive thn the MMO, wich is easy to awnser as an MMO has more restrictions and makeing it more alive can cause lot of lagg

DanteYoda · April 2018

ESO is a fun game but its not very TES imo.. its a mmorpg with a TES skin thrown over it like a tablecloth.

Violynne · April 2018

Vhozek wrote: »

Anyone else feel something wrong with ESO? I started out TES games with Skyrim...

Well, I see the problem.

I'm definitely going to be of a minority opinion here, but to me, Skyrim is not the TES game in this franchise.

It's been stupidly dumbed down, black-boxed (your character doesn't matter), and is a shell of anything I'd call "TES".

If you want to see what a real TES game is: Oblivion. Best game in the entire franchise.

Skills! Classes! Proper leveling! It had it all!

Then "Skyrim" came along and watered down the franchise that calling it an RPG is an insult to "Role", "Playing", and "Game".

As I've been trying to tell so many of you new players: ESO can't be compared to a single player TESO game.

It's like comparing a potato with a frisbee. Sure, they're both round, but there the similarities end.

For those who don't like ESO, by all means, go back to Skyrim.

If you want a real game, play Oblivion.

Disclaimer: please remember opinions are not facts and this post is an opinion.

crjs1 · April 2018

I think they have done a good job catching the TES feel within the limitations of a MMO. I have no complaints about questing, indeed it is probably ESO’s best feature IMO and feels like TES questing (Witcher it is not unfortunatly) I would definitely like the world to be more alive and responsive to changes but that is much easier to do in a single player than a MMO

Zinaroth · April 2018

Lyserus wrote: »

because melee and magic fighting always suck in all TES including eso, and the most fun way of fighting in other TES games, stealth bow/blade

Zinaroth · April 2018

Violynne wrote: »

I'm definitely going to be of a minority opinion here, but to me, Skyrim is not the TES game in this franchise.

Actually that's more like a majority opinion - since that's what every long time fan of Elder Scrolls says; "Skyrim sucked!".

adriant1978 · April 2018

I miss the combat lines from Oblivion and Skyrim.

"You'll make a fine pair of boots, lizard!"

"By Ysmir, you won't leave here alive!"

"A pox on the Empire!"

"You dare fight a Dunmer?"

"Die n'wah!"

The occasional generic "circle around!" and such we get from ESO enemies just doesn't measure up and makes the combat feel less alive to me.

yiasemi · April 2018

crjs1 wrote: »

I think they have done a good job catching the TES feel within the limitations of a MMO. I have no complaints about questing, indeed it is probably ESO’s best feature IMO and feels like TES questing (Witcher it is not unfortunatly) I would definitely like the world to be more alive and responsive to changes but that is much easier to do in a single player than a MMO

I'll go with that. My problem is we are definitely delaying the next TES installment. But I guess the success is deserved. And to be honest, I've seen more of Tamriel now than I ever thought I would. And I'm a Morrowind>Daggerfall>Skyrim>Oblivion for the record.

ShadowMonarch · April 2018

Its becuase ZOS has built a world based on tes, not a world of tes.

Even the world map is butcher'd, were did western morrowind go and were is winterhold? Seems like whoever made the map slid the entire zone with windhelm too far east, and why is slotheim connected to it, well almost connected only separated by about a hundred feet of water.

They have butcher'd the lore a ton, in which they go back to try to say "ohh well really its like this", but the damage is done.

Characters feel generic and really do not have much character to them, even less so then skyrim which was great at shallow characters. Go make a new character on AD and just start doing quests, add up everytime you get thrown in jail/prison.... its insane.... LAZY WRITING. The entire main story line is a rip off of Tes4 but with the gates opening in the sky and molag bal rather then mehrunes dagon.

ESO is a mmo set in a "tes like" universe.

As far as past tes games go, #1 morrowind for its great world immersion #2 Oblivion for its awsome quests. #3 skyrim, 3rd because while it looks pretty the characters are shallow, the quests are dull and something I would expect out of a morrowind aged game, its rather linear, and the combat system really wasn't a huge improvement. Oh and its terrible god awful, worst in the series, very limiting magika system.

ESO is definitely delaying the next TES installment and at this point I am afraid eso has become THE tes6 the way swtor became THE kotor3.

Here's to hoping they revamp the nb siphon skill line and tes6 returns to its RPG roots and is amazing!

Rungar · April 2018

the only thing really missing is a first person server where 3rd person is disabled.

the game would be a lot harder but way better. It doesn't make any sense to handicap just yourself as you become a liability to your dungeon team and easier prey in pvp.

if everyone had to do it though it would be interesting.

VaranisArano · April 2018

ESO is an Elder Scrolls game, though admittedly one set in a time frame where the canon explanation is that practically all the lore was lost in the coming games due to the general war, chaos, upheaval and death.

Which is why no one in TES IV: Oblivion is like "Mehrunes Dagon, you copy-cat! Tsk, tsk, taking over Nirn via Planemeld is so 2nd Era."

I figure the only entities that will remember lore from this time period are Daedric princes and other long lived folks like the Tribunal (and Vicec, Sotha Sil, and various defeated Princes would probably like to forget most of this happened because getting you butt kicked or your butt saved by a mortal is a wee bit embarassing.)

I do think ESO is closest to Arena in terms of the extent of its content necessarily requires less depth than say, Morrowind, which could pour tons of detail into one province.

jokeaccount · April 2018

you can't effectively compare a singleplayer game to an mmo just because they're set in the same universe™

Doctordarkspawn · April 2018

Phage wrote: »

There is no versus.

ESO is TES.

Anyone who thinks it isn't is wrong.

Well that's a bit of a twitish statement, opinions cant be wrong.

ESO is a MMO first, a TES game second. It tried to be DAOC with a TES skin.

The writing is TES, the story and visuals are too. The game? Not so much.