Why aren't maces a thing in PvE??
Bigevilpeter
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I mean it ignores 20% of enemy resistance where bosses have around 18k resistances is equivalent to almost 4k penetration.
Yes in good groups there is high penetration, but if it was enough then people wouldn't be using Twice fanged snake.
Why would people even rather go for swords over maces in PvE?
Yes in good groups there is high penetration, but if it was enough then people wouldn't be using Twice fanged snake.
Why would people even rather go for swords over maces in PvE?
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Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
✭Maces = too slow.
The 20% reduction doesn't make up for the increased DPS obtained with faster weapons.
Your goal is to take out your enemy quickly, not tickle them for a bit before putting them into the ground.
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Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Maces = too slow.
The 20% reduction doesn't make up for the increased DPS obtained with faster weapons.
Your goal is to take out your enemy quickly, not tickle them for a bit before putting them into the ground.
Is there really an attack speed difference between weapons?
I mean skills have the same speed with any weapon and LA and HA I think are also the same
In skyrim maybe but not hereEdited by Bigevilpeter on April 24, 2018 2:41PM0 -
Guarlet✭✭✭✭✭Bigevilpeter wrote: »Maces = too slow.
The 20% reduction doesn't make up for the increased DPS obtained with faster weapons.
Your goal is to take out your enemy quickly, not tickle them for a bit before putting them into the ground.
Is there really an attack speed difference between weapons?
I mean skills have the same speed with any weapon and LA and HA I think are also the same
In skyrim maybe but not here
Yeah, there is. Test it out by heavy attacking with daggers, and then with other 1h weapons. You will feel the difference.
I do wish maces, etc. and other 1h weapons were better, though, perhaps by making the attack speed difference smaller. I am a bit tired of the dagger meta for stam. I want to wield more badass weapons (like an axe and mace or some other combo), dammit!Edited by Guarlet on April 24, 2018 2:44PMAKA The Goblinator, PC/EU2 -
Reverb✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I must pvp too much, because I assumed everyone runs axes for the bleed (even in pve)Edited by Reverb on April 24, 2018 2:48PMBattle not with monsters, lest ye become a monster, and if you gaze into the abyss, the abyss gazes also into you. ~Friedrich Nietzsche1 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maces apply their resistance ignore at the end. After all other sources of penetration are calculated. So you're not getting 20% of 18k. You are getting 20% of what is left after all your other penetration bonuses. So sharpened, TFS, Alkosh, Crusher, Fracture all go first. As you understand the leftover penetration is miserable, now take 20% of that.
And also, there is no speed difference between 1h weapons animations. They are all the same.
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Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh my, yes.Bigevilpeter wrote: »Is there really an attack speed difference between weapons?
Daggers > swords > axes > maces
Skills may cast at the same time (they're technically spells), but LA/HA are not the same.I mean skills have the same speed with any weapon and LA and HA I think are also the same
Try it out. Swing a dagger vs a mace and you should see the dagger works faster.
This isn't Skyrim.In skyrim maybe but not here
Any comparisons between the two games stops at the character creation screen.
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Bladerunner1✭✭✭✭Maxed out raids have been reducing target resistances to 0 up till now.
With Summerset the only things cutting down a Target's resistance will be Alkosh (-3000), crusher enchants (-2108 infused), major fracture (-5280) and minor fracture (-1320). So maces will always have at least a little resistance to cut through. Sharpened trait, TFS and Spriggan's don't place their effects on the target so their penetration doesn't factor into the equation. When using Mechanical Acuity maces may be a much better option if your group doesn't have Alkosh, Sunderflame or NMG.
Daggers are just so strong by comparison, critting heals and buffing DPS to the effect of 3% give or take a little. It has been the most OP weapon for years.Edited by Bladerunner1 on April 24, 2018 3:13PM0 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
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Oh my, yes.Bigevilpeter wrote: »Is there really an attack speed difference between weapons?
Daggers > swords > axes > maces
Skills may cast at the same time (they're technically spells), but LA/HA are not the same.I mean skills have the same speed with any weapon and LA and HA I think are also the same
Try it out. Swing a dagger vs a mace and you should see the dagger works faster.
This isn't Skyrim.In skyrim maybe but not here
Any comparisons between the two games stops at the character creation screen.
Please, stop misinforming people. There is no difference in animation speed between all 1h weapons. They are all the same.8 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭Crit and bleed (and for more nooby players, a basic damage increase) are so tempting I don't think many people stop to consider the value of maces.@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.0 -
Zinaroth✭✭✭✭✭
✭LMAO at people thinking there's difference in attack speed on weapon types and spreading misinformation.
Daggers provide more critical chance.
Swords provide more raw damage.
Axes provide bleed.
Maces provide penetration.
That's it.
Also even if there were difference in attack speeds it would make little difference since you're not weapon swinging back to back - you only do light and heavy attacks in between using abilities.
So it's either a heavy attack weaved into a skill (the skill cancels some of the animation of the heavy attack) or a skill weaved into a light attack (the light attack cancels some of the animation of the skill).
The only time attack speed was a thing in this game was back before the trait overhaul where you had one of the traits provide attack speed. This was literally useless because of animation cancelling and was thus replaced with Charged or something else - I can't remember.8 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭LMAO at people thinking there's difference in attack speed on weapon types and spreading misinformation.
Daggers provide more critical chance.
Swords provide more raw damage.
Axes provide bleed.
Maces provide penetration.
That's it.
Also even if there were difference in attack speeds it would make little difference since you're not weapon swinging back to back - you only do light and heavy attacks in between using abilities.
So it's either a heavy attack weaved into a skill (the skill cancels some of the animation of the heavy attack) or a skill weaved into a light attack (the light attack cancels some of the animation of the skill).
The only time attack speed was a thing in this game was back before the trait overhaul where you had one of the traits provide attack speed. This was literally useless because of animation cancelling and was thus replaced with Charged or something else - I can't remember.
As of right now as far as I'm aware, this is correct. There should not currently be any differences in attack speed in ESO. If there were, there probably wouldn't be the ability to make your axe look like a dagger in the outfit customization. TESV: Skyrim had differences, but this is ESO, not TESV.Edited by Marginis on April 24, 2018 3:33PM@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.2 -
Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Speed difference between 1H daggers, swords, axes and maces? LOL! Who said that atrocity?2 -
Ahzek✭✭✭✭✭
✭thatlaurachick wrote: »
That has been changed years ago. Every target can bleed.
Axes are not used as commonly in PvE because they provide a mostly flat damage boost, making them very good in setups with otherwise low/ok damage (like most PvP setups). Daggers increase your damage proportionally to the damage you already deal. Thus, in high damage setups there comes a point where the % bonus damage from daggers is more DPS than the flat axe bleed.
This point where daggers surpass axes varies on a case to case basis however. For example daggers become even more effective with good crit damage multipliers and less effective when mechanical acuity is use etc..Jo'Khaljor1 -
jedtb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭messed around with all possible dual wield combinations and found that any combination involving a mace was less effective than any other combination.1 -
Marginis✭✭✭✭✭
See below.Dragonnord wrote: »Speed difference between 1H daggers, swords, axes and maces? LOL! Who said that atrocity?Yeah, there is. Test it out by heavy attacking with daggers, and then with other 1h weapons. You will feel the difference.
Oh my, yes.Bigevilpeter wrote: »Is there really an attack speed difference between weapons?
Daggers > swords > axes > maces
Skills may cast at the same time (they're technically spells), but LA/HA are not the same.I mean skills have the same speed with any weapon and LA and HA I think are also the same
Try it out. Swing a dagger vs a mace and you should see the dagger works faster.
Edited by Marginis on April 24, 2018 3:57PM@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.1 -
Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not as though my information was intentionally misleading. The same information was told to me by others.Please, stop misinforming people. There is no difference in animation speed between all 1h weapons. They are all the same.
Just to ensure, I did a search and, sure enough, my information is not correct. Sorry about that.
But more telling: quite a few people carry this misconception.
It's not like the game has the best tutorial.
I'd venture to say it probably stemmed from the animation. Daggers do look faster when compared to the others.
Well, now that I'm more informed... I have some axes to grind.
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Marginis✭✭✭✭✭
It's not as though my information was intentionally misleading. The same information was told to me by others.Please, stop misinforming people. There is no difference in animation speed between all 1h weapons. They are all the same.
Just to ensure, I did a search and, sure enough, my information is not correct. Sorry about that.
But more telling: quite a few people carry this misconception.
It's not like the game has the best tutorial.
I'd venture to say it probably stemmed from the animation. Daggers do look faster when compared to the others.
Well, now that I'm more informed... I have some axes to grind.
It's really great when people (especially on these forums) are able to recognize when they made a small mistake and can correct it. I know I've made more than my share of them...
And your second point is definitely a problem with ESO - it's not very transparent at all. It could be a good thing, but ends up not being so, the way the combat system is set up. Our only real solution to it so far is to gather and share info here, on the forums, and do what testing we can in-game (this is why setting up a build takes me weeks at a time, if you include all the research into the game's mechanics and in-game testing).@Marginis on PC, Senpai Fluffy on Xbox, Founder of Magicka. Also known as Kha'jiri, The Night Mother, Ma'iq, Jane Shepard, Damia, Kintyra, Zoor Do Kest, You, and a few others.3 -
EvilAutoTech✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not that my setup is MMO gold or anything but I back bar an axe and dagger on my tank. It's fun to be a snowflake.Edited by EvilAutoTech on April 24, 2018 4:51PM0 -
Guarlet✭✭✭✭✭
It's not as though my information was intentionally misleading. The same information was told to me by others.Please, stop misinforming people. There is no difference in animation speed between all 1h weapons. They are all the same.
Just to ensure, I did a search and, sure enough, my information is not correct. Sorry about that.
But more telling: quite a few people carry this misconception.
It's not like the game has the best tutorial.
I'd venture to say it probably stemmed from the animation. Daggers do look faster when compared to the others.
Well, now that I'm more informed... I have some axes to grind.
Huh. That, too, was the conception I've been under for a long time. It certainly does seem that way from the visual animation alone. Interesting to know that that is not in fact the case.
I guess the dagger crit from Twin Blade and Blunt alone really is that OP. I still wish the other 1H weapons were considered as good, though. Bashing in a skull with a mace is definitely cooler than stabbing someone with a flurry of toothpicks.AKA The Goblinator, PC/EU0 -
Violynne✭✭✭✭✭
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Indeed. It bothers me when people refuse to acknowledge their information is incorrect, as if their pride comes before being right. I refuse to engage in this practice, especially if I was burdened with misinformation from the start.It's really great when people (especially on these forums) are able to recognize when they made a small mistake and can correct it. I know I've made more than my share of them...
I'll admit that, since coming back to the game, I feel more lost than a new player will. It's so hard to get rid of information about the game when it was released, and still believing the information is still viable.And your second point is definitely a problem with ESO - it's not very transparent at all. It could be a good thing, but ends up not being so, the way the combat system is set up. Our only real solution to it so far is to gather and share info here, on the forums, and do what testing we can in-game (this is why setting up a build takes me weeks at a time, if you include all the research into the game's mechanics and in-game testing).
I saw this new "Skill Advisor" guide was available when I came back. I was setting up skills based on its "advice", only to discover weeks later I was following the skill path of a magBlade, not a stamBlade.
I was furious. I didn't even know I could set the advisor to a different skill set.
So I reset my skills and have been playing my way. I also disabled that useless advisor (though I will admit it did pick the same skills as I did for the stamBlade).
There's just so much to this game I still don't know, but I'll learn. Hopefully with more up-to-date information from other players.
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DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As I understand it, the reason maces aren't as good as they look is:
1. Well organized raids are essentially ignoring armor already
2. Even when solo, the mace reduces the armor value that is left after your other penetration stats (and armor debuffs) are applied. So it's not 20% of total enemy armor, it's 20% of remaining armor...which is a much smaller amount.
...weapon swing speed is from other games lol.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not as though my information was intentionally misleading. The same information was told to me by others.Please, stop misinforming people. There is no difference in animation speed between all 1h weapons. They are all the same.
Just to ensure, I did a search and, sure enough, my information is not correct. Sorry about that.
But more telling: quite a few people carry this misconception.
It's not like the game has the best tutorial.
I'd venture to say it probably stemmed from the animation. Daggers do look faster when compared to the others.
Well, now that I'm more informed... I have some axes to grind.
I've been around along time and had to read almost all the comments.
I carried the same interpretation until reading this for since 2014....this mean when dual weild for magic was my thing.....
Edited by NewBlacksmurf on April 24, 2018 5:20PM-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Royaji✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not as though my information was intentionally misleading. The same information was told to me by others.Please, stop misinforming people. There is no difference in animation speed between all 1h weapons. They are all the same.
Just to ensure, I did a search and, sure enough, my information is not correct. Sorry about that.
But more telling: quite a few people carry this misconception.
It's not like the game has the best tutorial.
I'd venture to say it probably stemmed from the animation. Daggers do look faster when compared to the others.
Well, now that I'm more informed... I have some axes to grind.
People who admit they were wrong on ESO forums? Damn, that's new... Thank you, have an awesome!
I'm actually surprised to see more people have this misconception. Maybe you're right and it happens because of the animation. But still there is no mention under any tooltips or skill descriptions about weapons having different light and heavy attack speed.Edited by Royaji on April 24, 2018 5:24PM0 -
kylewwefan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If they made one little change in the maths.....mauls/maces would be OP AF.
I think Masel or waffenacht or one of them theory crafting dudes wrote up maces not too long ago. IIRC they’re not as bad you might think, but not good enough to become new meta.
Many players have preferred mauls in PvP though.
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Dragonnord✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not as though my information was intentionally misleading. The same information was told to me by others.Please, stop misinforming people. There is no difference in animation speed between all 1h weapons. They are all the same.
Just to ensure, I did a search and, sure enough, my information is not correct. Sorry about that.
But more telling: quite a few people carry this misconception.
It's not like the game has the best tutorial.
I'd venture to say it probably stemmed from the animation. Daggers do look faster when compared to the others.
Well, now that I'm more informed... I have some axes to grind.
It's really great when people (especially on these forums) are able to recognize when they made a small mistake and can correct it. I know I've made more than my share of them...
@Marginis Glad you accept your mistake after pointing me to see what others were incorrectly saying. I've been dual wielding for 4 years now (that's why I firmly said they have no speed difference) and so I really had no need to "trust" in what others were trying to GUESS here.0 -
Oreyn_Bearclaw✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Simply put, any good group is going to calculate their penetration values down to the point (assuming all their buffs are up). Maces dont work with flat pen values, so frankly, they screw up the math and become pretty worthless in a good group. They are certainly not useless when solo or when you have a group that doesnt pay attention to group penetration.
Over the event, I actually changed a pair of VO maces I had lying around to Training for a grind set. Haha.0 -
Bigevilpeter✭✭✭✭✭
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It's not as though my information was intentionally misleading. The same information was told to me by others.Please, stop misinforming people. There is no difference in animation speed between all 1h weapons. They are all the same.
Just to ensure, I did a search and, sure enough, my information is not correct. Sorry about that.
But more telling: quite a few people carry this misconception.
It's not like the game has the best tutorial.
I'd venture to say it probably stemmed from the animation. Daggers do look faster when compared to the others.
Well, now that I'm more informed... I have some axes to grind.
Like I said that was in skyrim not eso0
