arctic wind needs further improvements

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Sketchy wording aside, warden tanks still have no good emergency self heal. The best option my warden tank has right now is budding seeds, which requires a double cast and I'm lucky if I get a 12k heal out of it. Even at 12% initial heal, arctic wind is only a 5k non crit heal for me at 37k health.

As comparison, I've gotten up to 28k out of green dragon blood on my dk, and dark cloak is similar over a 3 second duration. Dk tanks also have ash cloud as a heal now for keeping health topped off.

Arctic wind and morphs need to be made at least a 20% max health initial heal with 10% over 10 seconds to be useful to warden tanks. Otherwise we're stuck relying on inefficient and low power green balance heals that are designed to be used with the magicka and recovery levels a healer would have, not a tank.

DeadlyRecluse · April 2018

I'm lowkey still laughing at how "20% more" was interpreted universally as an increase from a 10% to 30% heal when they meant a 20% increase (from 10% to 12%).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

You are right on point with that It really needs to be at least the 20% of the players health, it really doesn't make sense that it is not.

xaraan · April 2018

Agreed.

As a tank aimed self heal, this skill isn't doing the job right now and bumping it up by 2% doesn't change that.

If you keep your budding seeds down, it makes a better heal every time vs. this skill and even if you don't have it down already, you are often able to spam it a few times to put it down/trigger quickly enough that it doesn't matter.

Even if they kept the damage portion from the other morph or the heal an ally portion the same capping at 10%, the self heal portion needs to be 20%. This still keeps DK and Sorc tanks and now possibly NBs as well ahead of Wardens (and poor templar) tanks for tanking certain situations in the hardest content.

And personally, I have this belief that if one class can't do the base required job in any content of another class for no other reason than class skills not being good enough - then they need a buff. And you go backwards from there making sure there are limitations to keep any craziness out of player vs player balances and the like.

Virtually every tank in the game can tell you why DK makes the best tanks and what needs to happen to other classes to bring them up to par (even if some of the strengths/weaknesses don't match 1 to 1) and ZoS repeatedly ignores the advice. Or close to it - I mean, thanks for making silver leash a chain pull option for all other classes after years and years of being told the problem. This might sound like I'm just bashing, but no - it's just frustration. Like, the answers are right there in front of you, this is not a hard fix, just do it frustration.

Even bumping Arctic Wind up to 20% it wouldn't be the strongest self heal in the game, but it would have the small HoT following it that gives it different flavor. Nobody is running it for the HoT though, that's just the flavor part, like nobody runs DB for the stam regen buff -- you have to make the basic reason people take the skill useful.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Right now we've got the following for emergency tank self-heals:

Dragon blood:
33% of missing health (in most cases, you'll be using this around the 20% health threshold, which makes it a 25%~ max health heal on average)
-Also grants major fortitude (+20% health recovery)
-Also grants major endurance (+20% stamina recovery) and minor vitality (+8% healing received) with green dragon blood, the preferred tank morph
-DK has easy access to major mending via igneous shield, meaning this will always heal for 25% more
-Draconic Power passives give 12% more healing received when an ability is slotted (GDB activates this)
-Also grants 5% extra health recovery via passives for being slotted

Dark Cloak:
33% of max health over 3 seconds (11% each second). Will always heal for the same amount regardless of your health threshold, unlike dragon blood.
-Also grants minor protection (-8% damage taken)
-Also grants major resolve and ward via shadow barrier passives
-Increases max health by 3% while slotted via shadow passives

Clannfear:
35% of max health for you and the clannfear, will always heal for that amount regardless of your health threshhold.
-Downside, it has to be double barred to remain active.
-Upside, it's a pet and deals constant single target and aoe damage for no additional cost.
-Passives increase your health and stamina recovery by 20% while the pet is slotted
-Passives increase your max health by 8% while the clannfear is active

Notice how all of these give you, on average, 30% of your max health before any healing modifiers are taken into account. Now we come to arctic wind and it's morphs:

Arctic Wind:
12% of max health (at any health threshold) and 10% over 10 seconds (2% every 2 seconds).
-Can potentially heal a single ally within melee range, or deal periodic frost damage to enemies in melee range
-Grants 500 physical and spell resistance with passives

Note that warden does not gain access to major mending unless using a GREEN BALANCE heal on an ally below 50% health. This means that you have to slot another heal (not typically part of a tank's toolkit) just to get major mending, and unlike DK igneous shield that mending buff is unreliable (only works if it actually heals someone below 50% health, 51% and you're SOL).

Over the full duration, 10 seconds (far too long for any emergency heal to require), you still only get 22% of your max health - a full 8% less than the average for other abilities of the same nature. Arctic wind also does not provide the same benefits via passives or it's own morphs that the other abilities do: it's damage is negligible as arctic blast, it doesnt provide any real protection (500 resistance is hardly equal to minor protection), and it doesnt boost recovery or healing taken.

At the very least, this skill should be 20% initial + 10% over time. More appropriate would be 25% initial and 10% over time, or 20% initial and 15% over time. Much of that 'over time' heal is lost due to overheal anyways, assuming you're not the only person healing yourself.

This ability is completely useless as an emergency self heal right now.

Ralamil · April 2018

I would even be ok with it being brought up to 15% max health up front + 15% max health over 10 seconds. That brings it closer inline to the other heals in terms of %, but keeps it different from the other classes. And this is also the base ability behavior, whereas the other panic-button heals for tanks are all morphs of skills.

You could then bump the polar wind morph to heal an ally for 15% of your max health, which allows warden tanks to have a panic-button for an ally as well, taking some pressure off healers and maybe keeping someone alive who would have died. And perhaps change the other morph into something else entirely... I highly doubt anyone uses it for its added damage.

Silver_Strider · April 2018

Buff it so that the end result equals 30% of your max health (20% up front + 10% over 10 seconds preferred but I can take whatever at this point)

Ally Heal morph - Up the radius to 12m radius (8 is just pitiful) and have them gain the new upfront heal value.
This skill just blows as it currently is. At 20% upfront, it at least has a decent shot to help someone instead of the current iteration that barely moves their health bar, if it can even reach them.

Lughlongarm · April 2018

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

RoyJade · April 2018

I disagree too. A reliable and strong damage morph for arctic wind ? Okay. But the other morph should really be the tank self emergency heal.
Make arctic blast a magicka scaling aoe around the caster with both a direct damage and a dot component, and give polar wind a much needed higher heal.

In order to be unique, what I propose is to give arctic wind a much stronger hot. Keep the 10% heal, but give a 25% heal over time or something like that. Then, polar wind may act as a smart reactive heal by giving you all the remaining hot if your life fall behind 40% ; that's also mean if you use it under 30% of your health you'll get the full 35% immediately. This would be fairy different than DK's immediate reactive burst, Sorc's unreliable and solid burst, and NB's strong hot.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

That's actually not a bad idea, kinda like mutagen. The important thing is that we need a burst heal.

As an example, the other night I was tanking the whisperer in vet hm spindleclutch. I was tanking on my dk at the time, and even through igneous and permablock her heavy attacks were dropping me from full (32k health) to nearly dead (around 2-4k health). If it weren't for hitting dragon blood and getting 28k crit heals with it after every heavy attack, that fight would not have been possible with the group i was in. No way in hell I could have done that with my warden.

Lughlongarm · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

That's actually not a bad idea, kinda like mutagen. The important thing is that we need a burst heal.

As an example, the other night I was tanking the whisperer in vet hm spindleclutch. I was tanking on my dk at the time, and even through igneous and permablock her heavy attacks were dropping me from full (32k health) to nearly dead (around 2-4k health). If it weren't for hitting dragon blood and getting 28k crit heals with it after every heavy attack, that fight would not have been possible with the group i was in. No way in hell I could have done that with my warden.

Not blocking heavy attacks?
I know block only applies after shield, but still block them or you are likely to eat it.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

That's actually not a bad idea, kinda like mutagen. The important thing is that we need a burst heal.

As an example, the other night I was tanking the whisperer in vet hm spindleclutch. I was tanking on my dk at the time, and even through igneous and permablock her heavy attacks were dropping me from full (32k health) to nearly dead (around 2-4k health). If it weren't for hitting dragon blood and getting 28k crit heals with it after every heavy attack, that fight would not have been possible with the group i was in. No way in hell I could have done that with my warden.

Not blocking heavy attacks?
I know block only applies after shield, but still block them or you are likely to eat it.

I was permablocking, that boss is just one of those that hits stupidly hard. She also debuff your armor/resistances.

There are numerous bosses in the game that will nearly one shot tanks even when you're blocking and shielded. Most of these bosses also have aoe or adds that require your healer's attention, which is why a burst self heal is absolutely essential for any tank (and one of many reasons why dk tanks are still king)

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

what are you not getting? tanks do not have the max mag and spell damage to make the heals from the green balance tree worth a crap. tanks need health percentage based heal to get themselves out of binds, like the situation that @Lynx7386 was saying.

tank also need to be using warhorn, so wardens cant waste their ulti on trees.

Lughlongarm · April 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

what are you not getting? tanks do not have the max mag and spell damage to make the heals from the green balance tree worth a crap. tanks need health percentage based heal to get themselves out of binds, like the situation that @Lynx7386 was saying.

tank also need to be using warhorn, so wardens cant waste their ulti on trees.

Chill, Soothing Spores scales with stamina and weapon dmg, same for healing thicket. Horn can be used in rotations between tanks and healers.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

what are you not getting? tanks do not have the max mag and spell damage to make the heals from the green balance tree worth a crap. tanks need health percentage based heal to get themselves out of binds, like the situation that @Lynx7386 was saying.

tank also need to be using warhorn, so wardens cant waste their ulti on trees.

Chill, Soothing Spores scales with stamina and weapon dmg, same for healing thicket. Horn can be used in rotations between tanks and healers.

But the meta, which became the design goal apparently, is to spend 0 on stamina and magicka and spend it all on health and enchant for health and use healthy jewelry so you're at base stamina and magicka.

I ignore the meta and build how I feel works and do just fine, but that person saying "needs warhorn" is obviously talking about "the meta of what is agreed is absolutely the best even if only by 1%".

Lughlongarm · April 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

what are you not getting? tanks do not have the max mag and spell damage to make the heals from the green balance tree worth a crap. tanks need health percentage based heal to get themselves out of binds, like the situation that @Lynx7386 was saying.

tank also need to be using warhorn, so wardens cant waste their ulti on trees.

Chill, Soothing Spores scales with stamina and weapon dmg, same for healing thicket. Horn can be used in rotations between tanks and healers.

But the meta, which became the design goal apparently, is to spend 0 on stamina and magicka and spend it all on health and enchant for health and use healthy jewelry so you're at base stamina and magicka.

I ignore the meta and build how I feel works and do just fine, but that person saying "needs warhorn" is obviously talking about "the meta of what is agreed is absolutely the best even if only by 1%".

If we talk "meta", we shouldn't even talk about tank wardens...

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

what are you not getting? tanks do not have the max mag and spell damage to make the heals from the green balance tree worth a crap. tanks need health percentage based heal to get themselves out of binds, like the situation that @Lynx7386 was saying.

tank also need to be using warhorn, so wardens cant waste their ulti on trees.

Chill, Soothing Spores scales with stamina and weapon dmg, same for healing thicket. Horn can be used in rotations between tanks and healers.

But the meta, which became the design goal apparently, is to spend 0 on stamina and magicka and spend it all on health and enchant for health and use healthy jewelry so you're at base stamina and magicka.

I ignore the meta and build how I feel works and do just fine, but that person saying "needs warhorn" is obviously talking about "the meta of what is agreed is absolutely the best even if only by 1%".

If we talk "meta", we shouldn't even talk about tank wardens...

Thus why this thread was created....
Somebody wants it buffed somehow to be part of "the meta".

Why was this not obvious?

Lughlongarm · April 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

what are you not getting? tanks do not have the max mag and spell damage to make the heals from the green balance tree worth a crap. tanks need health percentage based heal to get themselves out of binds, like the situation that @Lynx7386 was saying.

tank also need to be using warhorn, so wardens cant waste their ulti on trees.

Chill, Soothing Spores scales with stamina and weapon dmg, same for healing thicket. Horn can be used in rotations between tanks and healers.

But the meta, which became the design goal apparently, is to spend 0 on stamina and magicka and spend it all on health and enchant for health and use healthy jewelry so you're at base stamina and magicka.

I ignore the meta and build how I feel works and do just fine, but that person saying "needs warhorn" is obviously talking about "the meta of what is agreed is absolutely the best even if only by 1%".

If we talk "meta", we shouldn't even talk about tank wardens...

Thus why this thread was created....
Somebody wants it buffed somehow to be part of "the meta".

Why was this not obvious?

This thread was created to discuss "arctic wind" and not warden tanking, so no, it was not obvious.

Seraphayel · April 2018

I mean the "20% increase" is such a hilarious buff, I still don't know what to say. It's the ultimate middlefinger from ZOS to all Warden players. From 10% to 12% hahaha, I am still laughing.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

what are you not getting? tanks do not have the max mag and spell damage to make the heals from the green balance tree worth a crap. tanks need health percentage based heal to get themselves out of binds, like the situation that @Lynx7386 was saying.

tank also need to be using warhorn, so wardens cant waste their ulti on trees.

Chill, Soothing Spores scales with stamina and weapon dmg, same for healing thicket. Horn can be used in rotations between tanks and healers.

But the meta, which became the design goal apparently, is to spend 0 on stamina and magicka and spend it all on health and enchant for health and use healthy jewelry so you're at base stamina and magicka.

I ignore the meta and build how I feel works and do just fine, but that person saying "needs warhorn" is obviously talking about "the meta of what is agreed is absolutely the best even if only by 1%".

If we talk "meta", we shouldn't even talk about tank wardens...

Thus why this thread was created....
Somebody wants it buffed somehow to be part of "the meta".

Why was this not obvious?

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Lughlongarm wrote: »

This skill is weak and useless. Wardens have a full skill tree dedicated to heals. This skill should be about frost damage,
1 morph based on HP 1 morph scale with magicka. No need for the heal part.

Sorry but i disagree. None of the green balance heals are useful as burst heals for a tank. Growth doesn't heal for enough, budding seeds requires a double cast and also has a pretty meager heal amount, and the rest of the green balance abilities are small heal over time effects.

Currently the only emergency heal that tank wardens have (that actually works at all) is healing thicket. We should not have to rely on an ultimate to do what other classes get with a basic ability.

I hear you, but also as it is , the skill is not designed as a "burst heal". Even if you buff it it to be 20% instant heal - 20% over time heal, it's still a weak heal for it's cost, Soothing Spores is probably just better option as a "burst heal" . regarding ultimate and healing thicket, wardens are not exactly like other classes as it's got the ultimte regen aspect on steroids. This even got more emphasized with the up coming patch. And now in summerset, warden tanks can run Tava's Favor+Hist Bark+Deceptive Predator+bloodspwan and spam healing thickets all the time. Nature’s Grasp and Shimmering Shield will also boost this concept in situational fights and PVP tanking.

what are you not getting? tanks do not have the max mag and spell damage to make the heals from the green balance tree worth a crap. tanks need health percentage based heal to get themselves out of binds, like the situation that @Lynx7386 was saying.

tank also need to be using warhorn, so wardens cant waste their ulti on trees.

Chill, Soothing Spores scales with stamina and weapon dmg, same for healing thicket. Horn can be used in rotations between tanks and healers.

But the meta, which became the design goal apparently, is to spend 0 on stamina and magicka and spend it all on health and enchant for health and use healthy jewelry so you're at base stamina and magicka.

I ignore the meta and build how I feel works and do just fine, but that person saying "needs warhorn" is obviously talking about "the meta of what is agreed is absolutely the best even if only by 1%".

If we talk "meta", we shouldn't even talk about tank wardens...

Thus why this thread was created....
Somebody wants it buffed somehow to be part of "the meta".

Why was this not obvious?

This thread was created to discuss "arctic wind" and not warden tanking, so no, it was not obvious.

It's in the first line:

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Sketchy wording aside, warden tanks still have no good emergency self heal.

Could only be more obvious their intent if they had a M1A1 Abrams picture up there.

_Ahala_ · April 2018

It would be nice if zos also threw Magden a bone after buffing wind to be a reasonable tanking skill by making blast function as a single target ice dot and stun... I read somewhere a suggestion that it should freeze the opponent solid after 3 seconds which would fit the patient playstyle of magden, give then access to a class based stun, and open up the option of using ice comet in high level pvp