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Make the Swarm Mother monster set useful!

Iron_Blurr
Iron_Blurr
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As it is right now any non dk/warden tank can not pull mobs during trash fights. This set was probably introduced to give non dk/warden tanks some way of pulling in ranged mobs but in practice this set is not effective. Imagine this situation, you walk into a room as tank and see a lot of ranged mobs that you want to pull into your dd's AoE attacks. So what do you do? You can ranged taunt all of them while holding block but ranged taunt consumes a lot of resources and will not apply Major Fracture/Breach meaning that your group will not being doing max damage to the mobs you pull in. The whole point of this set is to group mobs to optimize damage done for getting through mobs quickly. But if an entire group of mobs is not affected by your Major fracture/breach or your infused crusher enchant since range taunt does not proc weapon enchants I seriously question this sets utility. So lets say you want to debuf the enemies as well as pull them in. What you would have to do is ranged taunt, hold block the whole time so you can pull enemies in, bar swap while holding block, and melee taunt at least most of the adds in melee range to debuff. This does not work in practice because double taunting each mob and holding block constantly will not proc your weapon enchants and will consume a HIGH amount of resources. Ok, well maybe you can run into a room and use a wide radius AoE attack like caltrops to gain natural aggro(damage enemies so they attack you without using taunt) and hold block the whole time as each mob is pulled in with 1 second cooldown. Then as they are pulled in you can melee taunt each mob to debuff their armor. Although this strategy could work on paper, the 1 second cooldown on each mob pulled in means your group will have to stay back and be careful not to attack any mobs you have not taunted that have also not been pulled in. This means for a group of 10 enemies your group will have to stand there and do nothing for 10 seconds to ensure you can create a pile of enemies and at least taunt most of them. That is not even considering the fact that a tank having to use a really weak ability like caltrops just to get a monster set to work is like putting a band-aid over a Gaping Hole. Overall, this monster helm is rarely used right now in Dragonbones and will NEVER see use when Summerset is released and every class has access to a ranged taunt through the Fighters guild ability silver leash.

I am posting this to give my opinion on a potential solution to this whole mess that will make Swarm mother useful even after every class has a ranged taunt. This solution will not affect pvp in any way so people dont have to worry about some Overpowered setup pulling you into a zerg in cyrodil. The solution is to make it so while wearing the Swarm Mother monster set, whenever you block, a shock-wave of damage radiates out from your position and can hit every mob in the area. For the sake of this example lets say the shockwave has a 15-20 meter radius. This shockwave of damage will have to do very low damage so that you can not spam block multiple times to do high damage or affect pvp in any meaningful way. For this example lets say the shockwave does 100-500 damage each time you bring up your block. To balance this set this 100-500 damage will have to be broken up and done over lets say 5 seconds in tiny damage ticks. The next thing that needs to change about this monster set to make it functional is that the cooldown on pulling targets needs to be removed. A 1 second cooldown is not much of a cooldown to begin with and I dont think removing it will make the set overpowered. I understand that in pvp you cant always tell what monster helm a person is using and removing the cooldown could mean someone can use eye of the storm or dk standard on you and keep pulling you into it as they block. To prevent this from affecting pvp but also remove the 1 second cooldown from pve this set will need this condition, it only pulls enemies in a 15-20 meter range if they have been affected by the 5 second DoT applied in the shockwave that happens when you bring up block. These changes would make it so a tank can walk into a room, press block which causes a shockwave and applies a 5 second DoT to all enemies in a 15-20 meter radius and then hold block as mobs get pulled in quickly allowing you to melee taunt each of them to debuf their armor. It would also make it so if you are in cyrodil and lets say standing up on a keep wall attacking someone wearing swarm mother below you, the shockwave would not reach you to pull you off of the wall. Also, the dot can be purged to remove the DoT preventing you from being pulled off the wall. This new Swarm Mother could still have the condition that only enemies 5 meters or farther away from you can be pulled, which would prevent this set from being overpowered in duels which usually take place in close range combat.

In summary:
Make swarm mother do this..
1. Blocking applies a 100-500 damage dot over 5 seconds on all enemies in a 15-20 meter radius.
2. Only enemies affected by this dot can be pulled if you block one of their attacks.
3. This can only happen when you block an attack from an enemy that is further than 5 meters from you.
4. This effect has a 0 second cooldown. ( the cooldown is built into the dot not the pull)

What do you guys think?
  • Arobain
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    if anything it should do like what the set is called, swarm mother, make it summon a spider for a limited time each time you get hit
  • Arobain
    Arobain
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    P.S. its awesomely useful in pvp
  • ForsakenSin
    ForsakenSin
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    Thank THANOS you had summary there OP , my eyes were hurting so i stopped trying to read all of that without having a number of separate paragraphs.

    Having said that, what you stated in summary that would be cool set for tanks.
    "By many i am seen as hero...as a savior of the Tamriel i will not stop until every Daedra every evil there is in Tamriel is vanquish by my hands..
    However i do this for my own purpose to gain trust of mortals to worship me and to eliminate my competition i will not bend my knee to lead your army to serve you Molag Bal , i will simply just take it from you.."--- Forsaken Sin( Magica Sorc)



    Arise From Darkness Forsaken SIn
    "You have been a loyal High Elf Magica Sorc
    Conjure of Darkness, Master of Magic
    Killer of Molag Bal and Savior of Ebonheart Pact
    Until Dark Brotherhood killed you...
    but now..NOW its time to Arise From Darkness once again..."

  • VaranisArano
    VaranisArano
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    Its not a bad set for a magicka non-DK tank, as long as you are willing, as you said, to stand, range taunt, and hold block the entire fight with adds and maybe throw a few CCs in there.

    In my experience, it was situationally very useful against lots of adds with good DPS who could burn them down but also situationally extremely useless. There's no point in wearing it for any boss fight with no adds compared to most other monster sets.

    PVP is another matter entirely, of course. There, ranged grabs are pretty nice.
  • fred4
    fred4
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    Arobain wrote: »
    P.S. its awesomely useful in pvp
    Such was posited by Sypher when the set came out, and yet I never see it (PC EU, open world).

    What kills it for me a little bit is, why does a set that requires you to block have stam regen? It's a wasted stat for a tank.
    PC EU (EP): Magicka NB (main), Stamina NB, Stamina DK, Stamina Sorcerer, Magicka Warden, Magicka Templar, Stamina Templar
    PC NA (EP): Magicka NB
  • Silver_Strider
    Silver_Strider
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Arobain wrote: »
    P.S. its awesomely useful in pvp
    Such was posited by Sypher when the set came out, and yet I never see it (PC EU, open world).

    What kills it for me a little bit is, why does a set that requires you to block have stam regen? It's a wasted stat for a tank.

    Not if you use a Frost Staff ;)
    Argonian forever
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    Arobain wrote: »
    P.S. its awesomely useful in pvp

    It is very bugged set in PvP. If a target hit you from more than 22m then you cannot pull the target. Also if there are some obstacles between you and the target, even that the projectile hit you the target cannot be pulled.
    Edited by Bashev on April 20, 2018 7:29AM
    Because I can!
  • hydrocynus
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    This set is fantastic in vDSA. I even use it on my DK tank there.

    I have a Sorc Tank too and it uses this set to great effect.

    Remember that if you can get an eruption or caltrops on the spawn area of the mobs then when they spawn you have initial aggro so in dungeons with big trash pulls a single caltrops is usually enough to pull the whole room to you on very short time. Tell DDs to aim at you not the mobs with their dots and then your dots will claim first aggro and pull the ranged mobs to their dots

    I would be really sad to see this monster set changed. I love it as it is.
    My internet is invalid
  • Iron_Blurr
    Iron_Blurr
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    Everyone is replying that the set is good in pvp but ive never seen it used since Morrowind when it was first bugged and never patched(same time all gap closers broke). Other people are saying it works if you slot caltrops or some other aoe dps skill. But the whole point of this post is why does a monster helm have to rely on a tank using an ability they should not otherwise be using in order to get a broken set to work? The fact is, the mechanics for a monster set should be built into the monster set not some obscure ability that will take up a bar slot for a tank when they could be using anything else infinitely more useful.
    Point of thread was asking community if you guys think this set should be buffed or fixed to be more useful since in summerset every class will have access to a ranged pull like the dk chains. Doesnt that make this set obsolete with its radius, 1 second cooldown and conditions meaning you have to use an AoE dot or ranged taunt just to get it to work? Couple that with the fact that the set gives stam regen but requires perma blocking and you have a recipe for disaster.
  • hydrocynus
    hydrocynus
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    Iron_Blurr wrote: »
    Other people are saying it works if you slot caltrops or some other aoe dps skill. But the whole point of this post is why does a monster helm have to rely on a tank using an ability they should not otherwise be using in order to get a broken set to work? The fact is, the mechanics for a monster set should be built into the monster set not some obscure ability that will take up a bar slot for a tank when they could be using anything else infinitely more useful.

    In my opinion, regardless of whether you use this monster helm or not, eruption/caltrops is a pretty worthwhile skill for a tank to use as an opener when faced with lots of trash.

    There is nothing worse than watching a DD or healer throw a spear or liquid lightning before the tank gets a chance to aggro everything because those mobs gravitate to the player who cast the skill and by the time you have them aggroed you have no resources less. Cast 1 eruption(which even gives you stamina back!!!) And you have the mobs it hits aggroed on you in 1 cast.

    So no I don't agree that caltrops/eruption is a skill to be avoided by a tank anymore than lightning destruction staff is not intended to be used by a healer

    My internet is invalid
  • Arobain
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    fred4 wrote: »
    Arobain wrote: »
    P.S. its awesomely useful in pvp
    Such was posited by Sypher when the set came out, and yet I never see it (PC EU, open world).

    What kills it for me a little bit is, why does a set that requires you to block have stam regen? It's a wasted stat for a tank.

    I mean it doesn't have to be used by a tank: it's not very used because it requires a specific build style, and you don't block 100 percent of the time but I agree
  • Checkmath
    Checkmath
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    i dont see a problem with the set not how it works. lets compare it to a dk, who has chains and stuff. you are in the middle of a room with mobs, fight has already started. you either start chaining them and add a puncture to each chain. so that makes two skills. when you are unlucky and they just gained cc immunity, because some stupid pets or whatever, then your chain doesnt work and you end up range taunting it. so in the end you also spent at least 2 seconds for ending up with a ranged taunt and no pull. now chain isnt that cheap, especially on a tank, which have low magicka/stamina pools and mostly poor regen. you cant really spam that skill, after some pulls you are empty of magicka. now with SS everyone gets a stamina chain, which surely also will be expensive, especially for tanks with sword and shield. they dont want more stamina skills actually, because they want to block. so in the end the set atm is very useful for any non-dk/warden tanks, because only a bit of blocking and a ranged taunt will get the adds to you. there are also other sources of major fracture and breach, so especially on adds its not that tragic, when they arent debuffed for some second. and if we talk about progress content, then anyway nobody will use swarmmother, since you will be a dk or warden. in my opinion a nice set to move non typical tanks more into the tanking job.
    ok the cooldown...i dont know....adds normally attack all 2-3 seconds from range.....
  • Merlin13KAGL
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    You know you're not obligated to (initially) stand still as a tank, right?

    You can, in fact, run around, Pierce Armor / Inner fire, and stack mobs that way, as well?

    Next patch, Silver Leash with be Stam non-DK's chains, as another option.
    fred4 wrote: »
    Arobain wrote: »
    P.S. its awesomely useful in pvp
    Such was posited by Sypher when the set came out, and yet I never see it (PC EU, open world).

    What kills it for me a little bit is, why does a set that requires you to block have stam regen? It's a wasted stat for a tank.

    @fred4 because you don't always have to block. During those times, you stam regen can still tick.

    You drop block to Heavy attack for resources. You drop block when you dodge, bar swap, cast skils, etc.

    In situations where you're needing to permablock, the occasional stray ranged add is probably not your primary concern anyway.
    Edited by Merlin13KAGL on April 20, 2018 4:22PM
    Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...

    Earn it.

    IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.
    I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
    Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS
  • Iron_Blurr
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    All of this is besides the point of this thread being about swarm mother being obsolete as soon as every class gets access to the ranged pull silver leash in fighters guild. I personally think something must be done to make using this monster set worth it over simply slotting the fighters guild pull and calling it a day. As far as tanks running aoe abilities caltrops etc why not just slot the new ranged pull instead of slotting an aoe dot that might gain agro long enough to maybe proc a pull with crappy 1 second cooldown and distance restrictions from this monster set? It's going to become obsolete if it's not changed.. I mean who would run this set over having a reliable restriction free ranged pull and deal with the stam regen 1 piece bonus and overall lackluster performance? Next patch swarm mother set is Rip.
    Edited by Iron_Blurr on April 20, 2018 5:00PM
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