Night mothers gaze discussion

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

Smaxx wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

TFS is less pen than NMG for vMA.
You could drop lover for warrior AND TFS for NMG and you'll be sitting on 9.6k pen which is around perfect for the last boss, especially now that you can get NMG jewellery.

Not sure I can follow.

Twice-Fanged Serpent gets you 5 stacks of 860 penetration (if golden; with 1 purple ring I'm at 850), add 5,280 from Surprise Attack, and you're at 9,560 physical penetration in total.

For solo content this is probably more than enough.

For raids you can add 2,108 from crusher and 3,010 from Roar of Alkosh (and Major Fracture from another source). So we're totaling in 14,678; or more specifically: 3,522 left. If you really want to, you can get that remaining from Champion Points or the Lover Mundus Stone, but I don't really see the appear to maximize it at all costs. (Using one club might be another option.)

Most adds die in vma before you get a full stack and there is a lot of down time before they spawn more, so on average, he is say you would have better results with nmg.

And the Mobs in vma have either 9.1k, 12.5 or 18.2k.

Weps · April 2018

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Lord_Dexter wrote: »

Applying Major Fracture and Breach can be useful in Solo contents like VMA,

Can be useful for Stam Sorc, DK and Templar.

You could already get more than enough pen for vMSA even without this change...

Not on Stamina toons (but still its easy content with low penetration stats) or even this is useful where tank not running in dungeons!

Bosses in vMA have, on average, way lower resistances than trials bosses

Smaxx wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

TFS is less pen than NMG for vMA.
You could drop lover for warrior AND TFS for NMG and you'll be sitting on 9.6k pen which is around perfect for the last boss, especially now that you can get NMG jewellery.

Not sure I can follow.

Twice-Fanged Serpent gets you 5 stacks of 860 penetration (if golden; with 1 purple ring I'm at 850), add 5,280 from Surprise Attack, and you're at 9,560 physical penetration in total.

For solo content this is probably more than enough.

For raids you can add 2,108 from crusher and 3,010 from Roar of Alkosh (and Major Fracture from another source). So we're totaling in 14,678; or more specifically: 3,522 left. If you really want to, you can get that remaining from Champion Points or the Lover Mundus Stone, but I don't really see the appear to maximize it at all costs. (Using one club might be another option.)

The problem is that with Sunderflame and NMG all the stamina don't need TFS, thus resulting in more damage for everyone else. You don't need maces, you can go with two daggers or a dagger and an axe. More damage for the group. You don't need lover, you can go with the Warrior. I think there is a lot of misconception about why this change is one of the very few changes that are misliked about this patch. It's not about single target DPS on a skeleton, it's not about reaching or not reaching pen cap for all the stamina.
The topic is about diversity, optimization and losing 12% overall damage for all the stamina in a raid optimised group. And that's just enough damage to make people say, why should we bring 3 stamDKs when magDKs do the same amount of single target and they have better defensive mechanisms?

Smaxx · April 2018

Ah, yes, of course. But as soon as you can/want to take down at least a few adds first, stacks should be building fast again.

Wayshuba · April 2018

Smaxx wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

TFS is less pen than NMG for vMA.
You could drop lover for warrior AND TFS for NMG and you'll be sitting on 9.6k pen which is around perfect for the last boss, especially now that you can get NMG jewellery.

Not sure I can follow.

Twice-Fanged Serpent gets you 5 stacks of 860 penetration (if golden; with 1 purple ring I'm at 850), add 5,280 from Surprise Attack, and you're at 9,560 physical penetration in total.

For solo content this is probably more than enough.

For raids you can add 2,108 from crusher and 3,010 from Roar of Alkosh (and Major Fracture from another source). So we're totaling in 14,678; or more specifically: 3,522 left. If you really want to, you can get that remaining from Champion Points or the Lover Mundus Stone, but I don't really see the appear to maximize it at all costs. (Using one club might be another option.)

Don't forget, for self-penetration buffing you can also run Kra'gh's (or at least the shoulders) for another 1487. Add another 5280 from the tank's pierce armor, and you have all but wiped out the 18,200 cap.

Smaxx · April 2018

Surprise Attack and Pierce Armor both apply the same debuff, so these won't stack (same with the reworked NMG).

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · April 2018

Wayshuba wrote: »

Smaxx wrote: »

Tannus15 wrote: »

TFS is less pen than NMG for vMA.
You could drop lover for warrior AND TFS for NMG and you'll be sitting on 9.6k pen which is around perfect for the last boss, especially now that you can get NMG jewellery.

Not sure I can follow.

Twice-Fanged Serpent gets you 5 stacks of 860 penetration (if golden; with 1 purple ring I'm at 850), add 5,280 from Surprise Attack, and you're at 9,560 physical penetration in total.

For solo content this is probably more than enough.

For raids you can add 2,108 from crusher and 3,010 from Roar of Alkosh (and Major Fracture from another source). So we're totaling in 14,678; or more specifically: 3,522 left. If you really want to, you can get that remaining from Champion Points or the Lover Mundus Stone, but I don't really see the appear to maximize it at all costs. (Using one club might be another option.)

Don't forget, for self-penetration buffing you can also run Kra'gh's (or at least the shoulders) for another 1487. Add another 5280 from the tank's pierce armor, and you have all but wiped out the 18,200 cap.

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Smaxx wrote: »

Surprise Attack and Pierce Armor both apply the same debuff, so these won't stack (same with the reworked NMG).

Weps · April 2018

Again, the point is not reaching or not pen Cap.
Is how much group damage you're going to lose in order to do so.

With Sunderflame you're fully optimised and can have 1 or 2 stam ( for certain trials even the other 3 ) run with full damage setups, making your group stronger and all the stamina classes wanted and appreciated in trials, despite the high-risk playstyle. Because the 4 stam guys are doing more damage and bringing both high single target and high AoE / Cleave.

Going in with the dummy test build isn't going to optimise your damage in trial, isn't going to help out the group pulling more damage. And is basically pidgeon-holding stam guys back into the prehistorical Twice Fanged + VO setup. It's a TON of damage loss for no particular reason.

Kolzki · April 2018

Here are the current sources of major fracture, quoting from:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/284053/buffs-and-debuffs-a-full-list-updated-for-dragon-bones/p1

-One Hand and Shield Ability: Puncture+Morhps
-Nightblade Assassination Ability: Mark Target+Morphs
-Nightblade Shadow Ability: Surprise Attack (Morph of Veiled Strike)
-Dragonknight Ardent Flame Ability: Noxious Breath (Morph of Fiery Breath)
-Warden Animal Companion Ability: Subterranean Assault (Morph of Scorch)

So any content involving a tank or a stam nightblade, dragonknight or warden already has major fracture applied. This means the new nmg only really has a place on a stam sorc or Templar running solo.

Major fracture may be tempting for pvp on those two classes, but with two other set bonuses being for crit chance, I’m not sure how it would compare to e.g. spriggans to do the same job.

JerryAlder · April 2018

I feel that this is not a matter of can we reach pen cap it's how we do it. We can spend 100 points into piercing and get pen cap with a broom but that's not the point. For raids I want this as everything to be a group effort. Tank and healer use some buffs and debuffs while different class dds can bring something else to the table. These sets have been the ONLY group utility stam players really have with some small exceptions. I don't count war machine since it's a selfish set that happens to also maybe do something usefull to someone. This game desperately needs more sets for groups and trials. And also for dds not just tanks and healers.

NyassaV · April 2018

Sunder change makes stamplar slightly unnecessary now

crobarXIII · April 2018

Instead of nerfing these sets, why not add group oriented mag dps sets? Maybe something like making elemental succession a group set, have it apply it's rotating buff to the group. I would also like to see powerful assault buffed a bit like replacing the health bonus now that every stam dps uses caltrops.

Facefister · April 2018

Kragh+TFS+30 points on penetration=Problem solved

Smaxx · April 2018

JerryAlder wrote: »

These sets have been the ONLY group utility stam players really have with some small exceptions.

Roar of Alkosh, anyone? Yes, I know, it's a staple for the tank (and as such I wouldn't call it "small"), since that way it's a lot easier to organize having exactly one in the raid (and get some other DPS set on the DPS), but in the end it would actually be a a Stamina DPS set. Period.

Maybe they want to get away from one or two being responsible for penetration alone, while everyone else just stacks damage?

caperon · April 2018

Facefister wrote: »

Kragh+TFS+30 points on penetration=Problem solved

And trial dps down the drain. But if the point is become elder staves online, we are on the way.

Nifty2g · April 2018

First of all, you are all making assumptions on what you think you want the games direction to be and ZOS has proven otherwise countless of other times with different sets.

The only logical reason I see behind this nerf is to put it into a buff category instead of having flat values. Most sets if not all are like this now I think the only one is the exception of Alkosh. But they might leave Alkosh as is because it's one of the most unique sets.

The way I see it is a way to handle Power Creeps.

xaraan · April 2018

This set is worthless now IMO.

Even solo for most classes - you get the same debuff from class skills that are commonly used for most classes already.

But more than anything, it kind of is a kick in the pants for StamDPSers - they won't have the pen of Magicka builds anymore, even with running TFS or Spriggans. But they still have to be up by the boss/mobs in danger and taking more damage than Mag builds PLUS don't have anything good in the way of shielding. This isn't even bringing up the fact that some fights are just going to lower a stam's DPS from having to worry more about positioning even without any nerfs or changes. Sure they can compensate with different stones and traits, but if the mag don't have to, then it still results in a loss of DPS in comparison.

And as a Tank that is bored of having to run Ebon/Alkosh, Ebon/Alkosh, Ebon/Alkosh on every tank build, this makes Alkosh even more important for the tank to have to run. So no hope for less boring builds on my tanks next patch. Yay?