Dark Cloak now takes you out of stealth when you use it.

Feanor · April 2018

Sun7dance wrote: »

There is no difference! You want to take a big bonus from all classes, because sorcs just don't need it.

Give all classes the opportunity to stack shields and we can talk.

But we would lose diversity!

All classes already can stack Harness/Dampen and Healing Ward if they choose to (and I’m not stacking Hardened/Empowered and Harness/Dampen either). I can pre-buff just as well from stealth as any other class. But I shouldn’t be able to (or do you really think e.g. going major sorcery -> empower -> Meteor -> Rune Cage all from stealth was how gameplay should be?).

But nvm. It’s not gonna happen anyway. Stealth is too dear to all these rogues out there.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

Maulkin wrote: »

In any case, if it's only a self heal it shouldn't pull you out of stealth. Any heals that could affect allies (Mutagen, Heal Ward, Vigor) the sure. But self-heals and self buffs should not. Not just for NB, but across all classes.

1) Do self heals remove you from stealth?

2) If not above, I think the reason Dark Cloak does so is the same reason we can't use it, on live servers, while targeting an npc with "prevent attacking innocents" enabled.
For some reason, they still consider this complete self buff a targeted ability, and even an attack. That just needs to be fixed. Delete the target check code. Just have it automatically apply to self.

aeowulf · April 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

KefkaGestahl wrote: »

It's for tanks. You generally don't want your tank to go invisible. Take the other one if you want to be hidey-stabby.

If the boss got visibly confused for a second, that would be kinda funny. "Hey where'd that tough guy go that I was so mad at about 3 seconds ago?"

This was how it used to work. Taunted bosses just stood there.

I would of gone middle of the road, which is roughly the above - a mob spends a little time searching for the tank before redirecting efforts onto the team, say 1 second or so.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ascan7 wrote: »

The other moph still makes you invisible, so i don't get all this crying

It’s not a good, needed or required change. I love Dark Cloak over the other morph yes one gives one crit hit 100% chance to next attack. But it’s just one attack. Dark Cloak reduces incoming damage by 8% for 5 seconds way more useful in a fight.

This change would not be bad if it was a real skill it was just done to kill the morph. This will not make TankBlades a thing. All other classes can still tank better. Hell then is just Green Dragon Blood over 3 seconds. NB need a burst heal we have DoTs covered. Taking a great morph and making it a watered down version of the shadow of a better skill was never going to go down easy with players.

It's just like how they made Lotus Blossom for Wardens. That increases the heal from a heavy attack, which can also heal others, while Nightblades still have the flat Siphoning Attacks that only heals for one amount, no matter what type of attack you use, and can't heal others.

Newer classes and skills just get everything while the older ones are forced to be less powerful just to be different.
I'm sorry devs but that is failing at your job. If something sucks compared to a very similar other ability and you want them to both be good at the same thing then make them as identical as possible and let the graphics differentiate them.
After all, every last ability in this game can easily be boiled down to only being visually different. You're still instantly hitting a single enemy with a specific amount of health dropping for a specific amount of whatever resource dropping on your end. Fake uniqueness is fake.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

Sun7dance wrote: »

There is no difference! You want to take a big bonus from all classes, because sorcs just don't need it.

Give all classes the opportunity to stack shields and we can talk.

But we would lose diversity!

There is no real diversity. It's all fake. Everything can be boiled down to ( x +- y = z ).
The only diversity is in visuals.

Sure, diversity does come from truly unique utility skills like stealth, but only because other classes don't have that stealth as something that can be recast(stupid potion cooldowns). That should change because it is too powerful to just be in the hands of one class. Crouching is not the same.

Turelus · April 2018

Daus wrote: »

I don't care the for animation. I was hoping for something unique and renamed, but it's the exact same. Looks kinda dumb looking like you're trying to sneak when you're trying to be tanky.

Agreed. If the skill is going to change what it does entirely, then let's at least have the art/animation team give us something interesting and iconic looking.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Should have an animation where you wrap a cloak around you, like this:

In any case, if it's only a self heal it shouldn't pull you out of stealth. Any heals that could affect allies (Mutagen, Heal Ward, Vigor) the sure. But self-heals and self buffs should not. Not just for NB, but across all classes.

I disagree. Buffing up from stealth should absolutely take you out if it. The advantage of hitting first is great enough as it is.

Ganking is a part of war. I have no idea where this “honorable fight” idea in games comes from but armies paid fair wages for a good soldier. Good archer could name their price. When you have 100 soldier 50 have to be right in front of the enemy open to a lucky hit and 50 can kill 200 men before they come face to face which one do you want more of? No one wants a fair fight they want to win. If I can kill you in open battle with archers good if I can send a few good men to burn your food stores in your camp and weaken you with hunger even better. There is no honor in war, just death.

If you can kill without risk to yourself that’s just what you do. I can’t fine the direct quote just news sources using it but a US General once said he doesn’t want a fair fight, he want to win and all his troops to come home.
In war you want to do as much unseen as possible. Risking the lives of your men, when a stealth attack is possible is just not something Commands did.

If I get to a field solo, stealth up, avoid zergs and wait to pick that one or two guys riding in a war zone alone without defenses up then I deserve that kill. I did the work made sacrifices for max damage, and take less AP then Zerg surfing nets. I shouldn’t be seen self buffing. Buffing allies or shared buffs that’s fair game pull them from stealth but a self buff should let you say hidden.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Should have an animation where you wrap a cloak around you, like this:

In any case, if it's only a self heal it shouldn't pull you out of stealth. Any heals that could affect allies (Mutagen, Heal Ward, Vigor) the sure. But self-heals and self buffs should not. Not just for NB, but across all classes.

I disagree. Buffing up from stealth should absolutely take you out if it. The advantage of hitting first is great enough as it is.

Ganking is a part of war. I have no idea where this “honorable fight” idea in games comes from

No person pays for an unfair game. Money talks. End of story.

Feanor · April 2018

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Should have an animation where you wrap a cloak around you, like this:

In any case, if it's only a self heal it shouldn't pull you out of stealth. Any heals that could affect allies (Mutagen, Heal Ward, Vigor) the sure. But self-heals and self buffs should not. Not just for NB, but across all classes.

I disagree. Buffing up from stealth should absolutely take you out if it. The advantage of hitting first is great enough as it is.

Ganking is a part of war. I have no idea where this “honorable fight” idea in games comes from but armies paid fair wages for a good soldier. Good archer could name their price. When you have 100 soldier 50 have to be right in front of the enemy open to a lucky hit and 50 can kill 200 men before they come face to face which one do you want more of? No one wants a fair fight they want to win. If I can kill you in open battle with archers good if I can send a few good men to burn your food stores in your camp and weaken you with hunger even better. There is no honor in war, just death.

If you can kill without risk to yourself that’s just what you do. I can’t fine the direct quote just news sources using it but a US General once said he doesn’t want a fair fight, he want to win and all his troops to come home.
In war you want to do as much unseen as possible. Risking the lives of your men, when a stealth attack is possible is just not something Commands did.

If I get to a field solo, stealth up, avoid zergs and wait to pick that one or two guys riding in a war zone alone without defenses up then I deserve that kill. I did the work made sacrifices for max damage, and take less AP then Zerg surfing nets. I shouldn’t be seen self buffing. Buffing allies or shared buffs that’s fair game pull them from stealth but a self buff should let you say hidden.

Real war analogies really have no impact on these discussions. You’re fighting pixels with other pixels. Thus balance is a concern. Going by your analogy it would be best if everyone could one shot everyone. Because fights don’t need to be fair, right? It’s a moot point though. There are so many people attracted to the stealth ninja type apparently that ZOS doesn’t dare to touch it after they removed the bonus damage from stealth.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

It would be great if every class had some individuality. Every patch they are becoming more and more alike. Everyone can heal, everyone can tank, everyone can dps. Its becoming more like SP TES everyday. One character, master of all trades.

Edit: I would love to play ESO with Rifts character system. Where you actually have to make choices.

Mystrius_Archaion · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

It would be great if every class had some individuality. Every patch they are becoming more and more alike. Everyone can heal, everyone can tank, everyone can dps. Its becoming more like SP TES everyday. One character, master of all trades.

Edit: I would love to play ESO with Rifts character system. Where you actually have to make choices.

Every game eventually homogenizes if they didn't start that way.
I'm not sure about Rift, but I bet they're more homogenized than you think.

It is necessary for balance to have everyone have the exact same options, especially when it isn't easy to switch class at the drop of a hat on the same character.
The most balanced PVE and PVP games are actually generic first person shooter games where everybody literally is the same with the same weapon options. A lot of those weapons are also just visual changes from one another.

It's like people. Do you think 2 people are truly different because one is white and the other is black? If they are equal in every other regard, their color has nothing to do with it but certainly makes them obviously different.
It's all cosmetic.

The only true diversity is cosmetic. Everything can be broken down into the same 1s and 0s just like the entire universe can be broken down into the same small protons and electrons and neutrons.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2018

Mystrius_Archaion wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Should have an animation where you wrap a cloak around you, like this:

In any case, if it's only a self heal it shouldn't pull you out of stealth. Any heals that could affect allies (Mutagen, Heal Ward, Vigor) the sure. But self-heals and self buffs should not. Not just for NB, but across all classes.

I disagree. Buffing up from stealth should absolutely take you out if it. The advantage of hitting first is great enough as it is.

Ganking is a part of war. I have no idea where this “honorable fight” idea in games comes from

No person pays for an unfair game. Money talks. End of story.

You can make it fair it’s called armor it’s really not my problem that you want to go so deep in damage that you can take a hit. If you have the same resistance as a ganker. You have a problem cause I put all I have in damage with no first thought to defenses. If you do the same with a normal build that you have your death coming.

If they keep nerfing stealth they may as well have a permanent spawn at the keep like Imperial City and Battle Grounds if their is no damage to riding back to a fight way have the space add a timer per death and be done with it.

Feanor wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Maulkin wrote: »

Should have an animation where you wrap a cloak around you, like this:

In any case, if it's only a self heal it shouldn't pull you out of stealth. Any heals that could affect allies (Mutagen, Heal Ward, Vigor) the sure. But self-heals and self buffs should not. Not just for NB, but across all classes.

I disagree. Buffing up from stealth should absolutely take you out if it. The advantage of hitting first is great enough as it is.

Ganking is a part of war. I have no idea where this “honorable fight” idea in games comes from but armies paid fair wages for a good soldier. Good archer could name their price. When you have 100 soldier 50 have to be right in front of the enemy open to a lucky hit and 50 can kill 200 men before they come face to face which one do you want more of? No one wants a fair fight they want to win. If I can kill you in open battle with archers good if I can send a few good men to burn your food stores in your camp and weaken you with hunger even better. There is no honor in war, just death.

If you can kill without risk to yourself that’s just what you do. I can’t fine the direct quote just news sources using it but a US General once said he doesn’t want a fair fight, he want to win and all his troops to come home.
In war you want to do as much unseen as possible. Risking the lives of your men, when a stealth attack is possible is just not something Commands did.

If I get to a field solo, stealth up, avoid zergs and wait to pick that one or two guys riding in a war zone alone without defenses up then I deserve that kill. I did the work made sacrifices for max damage, and take less AP then Zerg surfing nets. I shouldn’t be seen self buffing. Buffing allies or shared buffs that’s fair game pull them from stealth but a self buff should let you say hidden.

Real war analogies really have no impact on these discussions. You’re fighting pixels with other pixels. Thus balance is a concern. Going by your analogy it would be best if everyone could one shot everyone. Because fights don’t need to be fair, right? It’s a moot point though. There are so many people attracted to the stealth ninja type apparently that ZOS doesn’t dare to touch it after they removed the bonus damage from stealth.

This world has magic like people use portals to jump to whole different dimensions yet we have walls why if you can open a portal on the other side then the wall is pointless. People can call rocks from space yet towns and cities are a thing. If I fought a guy that could drop the sky on me I wouldn’t put my people in one place.

I going on my edge here and say it’s there cause it’s a part of our real world. When you can jump, float and fly over a wall it’s not that good when you can open a doorway on both sides it’s more useless.