Minno wrote: »

FYI, Hasty Prayer with breton, Light Armor and Templar passives is a 6051 mag cost spell.

CLAP HEAL META

Them zerglings gonna need some regen and cost reduction now

The Good
Healing Ritual no longer has a cast time. It's about time! This has needed to happen for years.
Hasty Ritual gives Minor Expedition. Great: this is a useful group utility buff.
Changing Enduring Rays to a fixed increase is better than a percentage increase.

The Bad
Healing Ritual's cost increase is severely disproportionate and unjustified compared to other heals in the game. For the price we're paying, and to make up for the many nerfs we've endured, this skill needs to grant Templars Major Mending.

The nerf to Breath of Life kills a class-defining skill. Just remove the pathetic secondary heal and make this morph a dedicated self-heal.

One of the two Sun Shield morphs still needs to scale off Max Magicka instead of health.

Solar Barrage is clunky and useless in a DPS rotation. Remove the cast time! (And this time do so without doubling the cost.)

Remove the minimum range requirement for Focused Charge and morphs.

Javelin is still garbage that makes no sense in the Templar toolkit. It should pull, not knock back!

The Ugly
Templar passives need serious work. We have too many passives that are limited to a skill line or specific skills, and not enough global passives.

Burning Light needs a per-target cooldown. The 9% damage buff is absolutely useless when this passive has a global cooldown and accounts for a tiny percentage of our total damage output. Increase the cooldown from 0.5 sec to 1 sec, but make it per target instead of global.

Balanced Warrior is not "balanced" at all. 6% Weapon Damage does nothing for a Magicka Templar. This passive should grant 6% "to whichever is higher". Also, it should grant both Physical and Spell Resistance.

Enduring Rays needs to add 3 sec instead of 2 secs to the listed abilities. As yet another skill-specific passive, this needs to be very powerful to make up for being non-global. With a mere 2 sec increase, Nova is losing one tick of damage. Reflective Light is only boosted to 7 sec, which doesn't quite fit the Templar's 8 sec DPS rotation. Bumping this passive up to 3 secs will make it strong enough to justify its skill-specific limitations.

Also we dont have an ability that gives us health back with our light attacks like almost all the other classes have... this needs to be worked in some how

How about this for Repentance?

Double the resources restored per corpse, but cap the amount of corpses consumed per cast at 2 or 3. This allows multiple stamplars in medium-large fights to benefit from the skill, but still allows me to "steal" corpses from an enemy stamplar in smaller fights. It would also be a buff to stamplar sustain when there aren't a ton of corpses available (i.e., the situation in which they struggle the most).

NyassaV wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

FYI, Hasty Prayer with breton, Light Armor and Templar passives is a 6051 mag cost spell.

CLAP HEAL META

Them zerglings gonna need some regen and cost reduction now

It's funny because the heal will be around 6-7k with all that reduction but the cost will still be more than BOL lol.

Zerglings are going to drop this ability for healing springs again.

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

@Cinbri thanks for the initial tests!

I'll need to create my 5pc shackle again before I can test if jabs dropped compared to live. They copied my toon before I made my shacklebreaker set.

What are your thoughts to buffing Templar through underused spells? I listed some above, maybe we can convince zos to make adjustments this patch on those abilities so that buff defensive/offensive abilities for Templars.

Well, for what its worth... I like some stamina way to get empower. Solar barrage as well as dark flare are just wasted on stamplar. (sry to say, but thats how it is, I am not sure wether magplars can get the buff this way... probably better to use mage guild skills, anyways)

Can you magplars spare one class ability morph for us? Do you use both morphs of sun fire ?

It's annoying because mage skills synergize better with instant cast abilities than channels. Solar barrage works better with jabs because you don't have to think about recasting it in between each jabs.

Do other stamina classes have access to empower?

Yes, NB with ambush (instant cast).

DKs could use empowering flame (it got buffed to 2 pulses empower, is instant cast and costs moderate magica)

2H can use wreckling blow (instant cast)

---> its only templars that (again) got the clunky 1.1s channel mechanic tied to the buff ... Oh well, stamdens and stamsorcs didn't get anything which will rightfully be debated. But stamplars are screwed in 2 ways, they have access to the buff in theory and magplars even got 2 morphs to choose from. However, the choice would be use the clunky 1.1s channel or the clunky 1.1s channel. ... at least maplars may find usefull mage guild skills, stamplars not so much.

Ok thanks! Sorry I couldn't remember all the sources of empower.

I'm not sure what's the correct move to give Templar empower. Honestly, they could receive better offensive buffs while keeping empower to the current sources.

Here’s a legitimate question: what makes Templar unique? Does each other class have something that makes them unique?

My perspective is significantly different than many here as my only points of reference are the first 6 months after release to today, but back at that time the intention seemed to be that each class would have things that made them uniquely suited to specific roles. It appears that this isn’t the case anymore.

I’d argue that the stated “play how you want” can still be met while assigning stronger class roles to each character type through unique abilities and passives. Trying to balance all the classes in all roles just waters things down. Pick some areas of uniqueness for each class and hold fast to those, stop normalizing everything.

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Darrett wrote: »

Here’s a legitimate question: what makes Templar unique?

Excessive cast-time and channeled abilities

Templars are the best class to play while snacking. With practice, one can dip and eat a chip during one jabs channel.

casparian wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Darrett wrote: »

Here’s a legitimate question: what makes Templar unique?

Excessive cast-time and channeled abilities

Templars are the best class to play while snacking. With practice, one can dip and eat a chip during one jabs channel.

Nah, any class can do that with Dizzy Swing. Takin a swig of beer during the Dizzy Swing channel is the American way to play.

Yeah, but if the enemy moves during Dizzy swing it might get canceled! With templars you just stand there poking the air and enjoying your refreshment. #prostrats.

casparian wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Darrett wrote: »

Here’s a legitimate question: what makes Templar unique?

Excessive cast-time and channeled abilities

Templars are the best class to play while snacking. With practice, one can dip and eat a chip during one jabs channel.

Nah, any class can do that with Dizzy Swing. Takin a swig of beer during the Dizzy Swing channel is the American way to play.

Americans would need to brew beer first for this to work out. #germansdon'thavehumor

Minno wrote: »

DeadlyRecluse wrote: »

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

Darrett wrote: »

Here’s a legitimate question: what makes Templar unique?

Excessive cast-time and channeled abilities

Templars are the best class to play while snacking. With practice, one can dip and eat a chip during one jabs channel.

I tried to play other classes and realized I needed to put down my beer.

People keep wondering why I'm still playing Templar, and that's my answer lol.

We've been going at this all wrong. Mobility? Resource management? Skills-that-grant-empower-without-empowerable-followups? That's not the problem.

We need more channels. Longer channels. Why stop at a sip of beer. Let me hit a channel and go put a pizza in the oven. Watch a show. Read a book to my son. 2018 will be the year of the channelplar.

I run Dizzy, Jabs, and Remembrance, so I can channel before I channel. Meditate will be a massive buff to my playstyle.

LeifErickson wrote: »

Sorry I'm late to the party. Was the "give blazing spear its stun back" already said yet as well as the "allow repentence to give stam to group members so templars don't have to compete against each other for stam" said yet as well? If not, then I will say something quick.

Why were these things changed? They were not overpowered, no one complained about them, and the new versions have left the skills not even worth slotting a lot of the time, not to mention being significantly less fun to use. Templars might have the worst resource management in the game. Repentence allowed them to get resources back from something. Now templars have to compete against each other for the stam. Templar ccs are also terrible now that Blazing Spear had its cc removed. There was no reason to remove it. It should get its stun back.

Everyone here agrees with you, but ZOS hasn't listened. Wrobel's only response if I remember correctly was that they wanted Blazing Spear to be for DPS and Luminous Shards to be for group support -- which of course doesn't explain why either of those can't have a CC.

Welcome back, though.

Solinur wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

@Cinbri thanks for the initial tests!

I'll need to create my 5pc shackle again before I can test if jabs dropped compared to live. They copied my toon before I made my shacklebreaker set.

What are your thoughts to buffing Templar through underused spells? I listed some above, maybe we can convince zos to make adjustments this patch on those abilities so that buff defensive/offensive abilities for Templars.

Well, for what its worth... I like some stamina way to get empower. Solar barrage as well as dark flare are just wasted on stamplar. (sry to say, but thats how it is, I am not sure wether magplars can get the buff this way... probably better to use mage guild skills, anyways)

Can you magplars spare one class ability morph for us? Do you use both morphs of sun fire ?

It's annoying because mage skills synergize better with instant cast abilities than channels. Solar barrage works better with jabs because you don't have to think about recasting it in between each jabs.

Do other stamina classes have access to empower?

Yes, NB with ambush (instant cast).

DKs could use empowering flame (it got buffed to 2 pulses empower, is instant cast and costs moderate magica <- edit: would not mind a 2 pulse magica based skill costing 4k mag giving me: a pull to an enemy, dealing [x] Flame Damage and granting you Empower,(2 pulses),
granting Major Expedition, for 6 seconds.
This attack cannot be dodged or reflected. Really I would take the mag cost with this any time!)

2H can use wreckling blow (instant cast)

---> its only templars that (again) got the clunky 1.1s channel mechanic tied to the buff ... Oh well, stamdens and stamsorcs didn't get anything which will rightfully be debated. But stamplars are screwed in 2 ways, they have access to the buff in theory and magplars even got 2 morphs to choose from. However, the choice would be use the clunky 1.1s channel or the clunky 1.1s channel. ... at least maplars may find usefull mage guild skills, stamplars not so much.

Solar Barrage gives 4x Empower now (after each pulse, every 2s). I did some testing and with the additional tick it seems to be about the same Damage, if not slightly better than Sweeps (without considering empower)

Does that consider burning light as well?

Solinur wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Elsterchen wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

@Cinbri thanks for the initial tests!

I'll need to create my 5pc shackle again before I can test if jabs dropped compared to live. They copied my toon before I made my shacklebreaker set.

What are your thoughts to buffing Templar through underused spells? I listed some above, maybe we can convince zos to make adjustments this patch on those abilities so that buff defensive/offensive abilities for Templars.

Well, for what its worth... I like some stamina way to get empower. Solar barrage as well as dark flare are just wasted on stamplar. (sry to say, but thats how it is, I am not sure wether magplars can get the buff this way... probably better to use mage guild skills, anyways)

Can you magplars spare one class ability morph for us? Do you use both morphs of sun fire ?

It's annoying because mage skills synergize better with instant cast abilities than channels. Solar barrage works better with jabs because you don't have to think about recasting it in between each jabs.

Do other stamina classes have access to empower?

Yes, NB with ambush (instant cast).

DKs could use empowering flame (it got buffed to 2 pulses empower, is instant cast and costs moderate magica <- edit: would not mind a 2 pulse magica based skill costing 4k mag giving me: a pull to an enemy, dealing [x] Flame Damage and granting you Empower,(2 pulses),
granting Major Expedition, for 6 seconds.
This attack cannot be dodged or reflected. Really I would take the mag cost with this any time!)

2H can use wreckling blow (instant cast)

---> its only templars that (again) got the clunky 1.1s channel mechanic tied to the buff ... Oh well, stamdens and stamsorcs didn't get anything which will rightfully be debated. But stamplars are screwed in 2 ways, they have access to the buff in theory and magplars even got 2 morphs to choose from. However, the choice would be use the clunky 1.1s channel or the clunky 1.1s channel. ... at least maplars may find usefull mage guild skills, stamplars not so much.

Solar Barrage gives 4x Empower now (after each pulse, every 2s). I did some testing and with the additional tick it seems to be about the same Damage, if not slightly better than Sweeps (without considering empower)

Toss in a light attack/Imbue Weapons rotation and you'll have a potent replacement for Sweeps. A replacement robbed of all the Templar soul and lacking everything that made the old Blazing Spear/Sweeps combo fun, but it will give you better numbers.