Remove Passive Dodge

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Remove passive dodge.
Add active dodge+major buff 6s skill
Add active dodge+counter atk skill
Add active dodge +gap creation skill(escape.)
Add passives that benefit those skills.
Rework med armor

Malamar1229 · April 2018

Also for RP purposes, players holding a heavy 2H sword shouldn't be able to dodge roll. That's how eyes get poked out.

RoyJade · April 2018

Minor and major evasion should decrease the cost of dodge roll, and dodge "roll" should be used without pointing a direction (with no movement and same animation as the passive dodge, useful for pve tank). Evasion and dodge might become more interesting that way.

And yes, damage shield also need a change. Absorbing only a percentage of damage, only exterior damage (so no apposed dots) or something like that.

RoyJade · April 2018

Minor and major evasion should decrease the cost of dodge roll, and dodge "roll" should be used without pointing a direction (with no movement and same animation as the passive dodge, useful for pve tank). Evasion and dodge might become more interesting that way.

And yes, damage shield also need a change. Absorbing only a percentage of damage, only exterior damage (so no apposed dots) or something like that.

Royaji · April 2018

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Also for RP purposes, players holding a heavy 2H sword shouldn't be able to dodge roll. That's how eyes get poked out.

Well that is just objectively false. It's not even that hard to roll dodge with a longsword. It's not like your hands are glued to it...

Feanor · April 2018

RoyJade wrote: »

Minor and major evasion should decrease the cost of dodge roll, and dodge "roll" should be used without pointing a direction (with no movement and same animation as the passive dodge, useful for pve tank). Evasion and dodge might become more interesting that way.

And yes, damage shield also need a change. Absorbing only a percentage of damage, only exterior damage (so no apposed dots) or something like that.

Sure, if you give a decent class burst heal (that is not bound to a pet for Sorcs) to compensate.

Wuuffyy · April 2018

I'm a stam build and even I think this is ridiculous. This is on par with incap for longest lasting nonsensical combat related abilities/effects that exist. Like what is this?! We need to keep RNG out of end-game PVP combat scenarios, period.

xaraan · April 2018

Everytime I come to the forums it's just more players asking for abilities to be nerfed to make it easier for them to kill other players. Having played pvp since the game launched, I can think of only a handful of things that actually needed a strong nerf b/c it was just broken/not balanced/bugged and most of the things was just the 'majority' of players being lazy and wanting the game made easier for them. Evasion has never been a huge issue when fighting someone, even when it was 20% and able to be cast by any armor type and with all the un-dodge-able attacks now it would be even less so. Now we've moved onto crying that it's in the game period as an effect. I hate the saying, but sometimes the problem isn't the ability, but really is a L2P issue.

Rianai · April 2018

This isn't about nerfing something op, it is about removing/reworking bad design.

xaraan · April 2018

Rianai wrote: »

This isn't about nerfing something op, it is about removing/reworking bad design.

No, it's about nerfing something that's not even OP.

Nothing is wrong with Evasion, it's really not the end of the world to deal with.

Amdar_Godkiller · April 2018

1 time out of 10 an attack misses its because of evasion, in my experience.

9 times out of 10 its actually just a nightblade cloaking.

Rianai · April 2018

xaraan wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

This isn't about nerfing something op, it is about removing/reworking bad design.

No, it's about nerfing something that's not even OP.

Nothing is wrong with Evasion, it's really not the end of the world to deal with.

Please quote the post that is asking for a nerf to Evasion, because i can't find one here.
All i can find is players asking for removal/replacement. L2Read issue?

RoyJade · April 2018

Feanor wrote: »

Sure, if you give a decent class burst heal (that is not bound to a pet for Sorcs) to compensate.

Well, as long as it's totally unique and useable for every classes (and not broken, of course), I'm entirely for it. Perhaps not burst heal, but strong short hot for some.

Kanar · April 2018

AmericanSpy wrote: »

Sky_WK wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

L2P issue. Evasion is fine.

Explain.

How do you actively counter a passive ability? Please TEACH me how to hit an RNG roll.

The game has an ACTIVE Dodge mechanic, how about you L2P with that and not hide behind RNG and claim "skill".

Just like the game has an ACTIVE block mechanic and so all resistances should be removed, right?

Plenty of skills are undodgeable. Those are active counters to a passive ability.

Beardimus · April 2018

Agreed.

xaraan · April 2018

Rianai wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

This isn't about nerfing something op, it is about removing/reworking bad design.

No, it's about nerfing something that's not even OP.

Nothing is wrong with Evasion, it's really not the end of the world to deal with.

Please quote the post that is asking for a nerf to Evasion, because i can't find one here.
All i can find is players asking for removal/replacement. L2Read issue?

LOL.

OK, so removal isn't nerfing something to the ultimate degree??

C'mon man, you aren't fooling anyone with comments like that.

Nerftheforums · April 2018

So, since you want to take the passive portion of the medium armor skill line away, we shall add something like "every 8 seconds you are granted a free dodge roll"? Since casting the LA shield against any magicka class grants you A LOT of magicka back, I guess a sustain passive like the one I proposed makes sense. Yet, I already see people crying how op that would be (somehow). How would you make shuffle not rng based?

Rianai · April 2018

Not if it is replaced with something better and nobody wants it to removed without compensation.

Kanar wrote: »

AmericanSpy wrote: »

Sky_WK wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

L2P issue. Evasion is fine.

Explain.

How do you actively counter a passive ability? Please TEACH me how to hit an RNG roll.

The game has an ACTIVE Dodge mechanic, how about you L2P with that and not hide behind RNG and claim "skill".

Just like the game has an ACTIVE block mechanic and so all resistances should be removed, right?

Plenty of skills are undodgeable. Those are active counters to a passive ability.

Resistances aren't RNG based. Not compareable to Evasion. Aside from this, undodgeable skills being too strong is bad design too, because it doesn't only invalidate passive dodges.

I really don't understand what's so appealing about RNG, care to explain?

NyassaV · April 2018

xaraan wrote: »

Everytime I come to the forums it's just more players asking for abilities to be nerfed to make it easier for them to kill other players. Having played pvp since the game launched, I can think of only a handful of things that actually needed a strong nerf b/c it was just broken/not balanced/bugged and most of the things was just the 'majority' of players being lazy and wanting the game made easier for them. Evasion has never been a huge issue when fighting someone, even when it was 20% and able to be cast by any armor type and with all the un-dodge-able attacks now it would be even less so. Now we've moved onto crying that it's in the game period as an effect. I hate the saying, but sometimes the problem isn't the ability, but really is a L2P issue.

It's not a L2P issue if there is no counter play

If you check this user's signature you'll notice he plays stamina character mostly so of course they don't have an issue with it. For the record I play a magblade and I use Mirage which grants major evasion and I still want this skill gone.'

As part of the NDA you agreed to give non-biased feedback. Please uphold it to the best of your ability

NyassaV · April 2018

Kanar wrote: »

AmericanSpy wrote: »

Sky_WK wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

L2P issue. Evasion is fine.

Explain.

How do you actively counter a passive ability? Please TEACH me how to hit an RNG roll.

The game has an ACTIVE Dodge mechanic, how about you L2P with that and not hide behind RNG and claim "skill".

Just like the game has an ACTIVE block mechanic and so all resistances should be removed, right?

Plenty of skills are undodgeable. Those are active counters to a passive ability.

This used to be a valid argument. But since things are dodgable now it's hard to make this arguement

xaraan · April 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Everytime I come to the forums it's just more players asking for abilities to be nerfed to make it easier for them to kill other players. Having played pvp since the game launched, I can think of only a handful of things that actually needed a strong nerf b/c it was just broken/not balanced/bugged and most of the things was just the 'majority' of players being lazy and wanting the game made easier for them. Evasion has never been a huge issue when fighting someone, even when it was 20% and able to be cast by any armor type and with all the un-dodge-able attacks now it would be even less so. Now we've moved onto crying that it's in the game period as an effect. I hate the saying, but sometimes the problem isn't the ability, but really is a L2P issue.

It's not a L2P issue if there is no counter play

If you check this user's signature you'll notice he plays stamina character mostly so of course they don't have an issue with it. For the record I play a magblade and I use Mirage which grants major evasion and I still want this skill gone.'

As part of the NDA you agreed to give non-biased feedback. Please uphold it to the best of your ability

Counter play is attacking again and the chance that they will again dodge is pretty nil. Or... I don't know... using an undodgeable skill?

For the record, I don't use the skill much at all on any character and fight against people that use it and don't care.

And disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm not giving non-biased feedback. That was a pretty lame comment.

Plus, no, I actually have an even amount of every class and spec. Again, lame attempt at discredit. I have one mag of each class, one stam of each class, and one support of each class.

Better luck next time.

NyassaV · April 2018

xaraan wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Everytime I come to the forums it's just more players asking for abilities to be nerfed to make it easier for them to kill other players. Having played pvp since the game launched, I can think of only a handful of things that actually needed a strong nerf b/c it was just broken/not balanced/bugged and most of the things was just the 'majority' of players being lazy and wanting the game made easier for them. Evasion has never been a huge issue when fighting someone, even when it was 20% and able to be cast by any armor type and with all the un-dodge-able attacks now it would be even less so. Now we've moved onto crying that it's in the game period as an effect. I hate the saying, but sometimes the problem isn't the ability, but really is a L2P issue.

It's not a L2P issue if there is no counter play

If you check this user's signature you'll notice he plays stamina character mostly so of course they don't have an issue with it. For the record I play a magblade and I use Mirage which grants major evasion and I still want this skill gone.'

As part of the NDA you agreed to give non-biased feedback. Please uphold it to the best of your ability

Counter play is attacking again and the chance that they will again dodge is pretty nil.

For the record, I don't use the skill much at all on any character and fight against people that use it and don't care.

And disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm not giving non-biased feedback. That was a pretty lame comment.

Plus, no, I actually have an even amount of every class and spec. Again, lame attempt at discredit. I have one mag of each class, one stam of each class, and one support of each class.

Better luck next time.

Doesn't make your comment anymore creditable. You're use of the word counter play is extremely lackluster and borderline (if not already) incorrect

Lining up a kill combo after 2 mins waiting for an opening, just to have it be passive dodged and them survive twice in a row is pretty BS

xaraan · April 2018

NyassaV wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

NyassaV wrote: »

xaraan wrote: »

Everytime I come to the forums it's just more players asking for abilities to be nerfed to make it easier for them to kill other players. Having played pvp since the game launched, I can think of only a handful of things that actually needed a strong nerf b/c it was just broken/not balanced/bugged and most of the things was just the 'majority' of players being lazy and wanting the game made easier for them. Evasion has never been a huge issue when fighting someone, even when it was 20% and able to be cast by any armor type and with all the un-dodge-able attacks now it would be even less so. Now we've moved onto crying that it's in the game period as an effect. I hate the saying, but sometimes the problem isn't the ability, but really is a L2P issue.

It's not a L2P issue if there is no counter play

If you check this user's signature you'll notice he plays stamina character mostly so of course they don't have an issue with it. For the record I play a magblade and I use Mirage which grants major evasion and I still want this skill gone.'

As part of the NDA you agreed to give non-biased feedback. Please uphold it to the best of your ability

Counter play is attacking again and the chance that they will again dodge is pretty nil.

For the record, I don't use the skill much at all on any character and fight against people that use it and don't care.

And disagreeing with you doesn't mean I'm not giving non-biased feedback. That was a pretty lame comment.

Plus, no, I actually have an even amount of every class and spec. Again, lame attempt at discredit. I have one mag of each class, one stam of each class, and one support of each class.

Better luck next time.

Doesn't make your comment anymore creditable. You're use of the word counter play is extremely lackluster and borderline (if not already) incorrect

Lining up a kill combo after 2 mins waiting for an opening, just to have it be passive dodged and them survive twice in a row is pretty BS

It's amazing I've ever killed anyone using evasion then by those standards

I never knew I was so OP.

And after the attempt you made to discredit me with random BS comments like disagreeing with you was violating the NDA or I'm biased b/c you can't read think I have too many stam characters, you are the one that no one will find very credible.

You don't have to convince me of your argument. You don't' have to convince anyone that will click agree just b/c they agree with the title before even reading any discussion. You have to convince ZoS and when they see posts like that, you can forget it.

Aznox · April 2018

i play in heavy armor almost exclusively, but i find passive dodge add some skill to the fight against medium : you need to react on a dodged ability and decide immediately if you go for a recast, adjusting your rotation as the fight goes.

Of course it is very strong, and by nature, random,but getting your CC dodged 3 times in a row does not happen every fight and is not very different than getting a crit on all the damages of a burst combo

also, lol at math :

Counter play is attacking again and the chance that they will again dodge is pretty nil. 15%

xaraan · April 2018

Aznox wrote: »

i play in heavy armor almost exclusively, but i find passive dodge add some skill to the fight against medium : you need to react on a dodged ability and decide immediately if you go for a recast, adjusting your rotation as the fight goes.

Of course it is very strong, and by nature, random,but getting your CC dodged 3 times in a row does not happen every fight and is not very different than getting a crit on all the damages of a burst combo

also, lol at math :

Counter play is attacking again and the chance that they will again dodge is pretty nil. 15%

lol, too true, good point, though you did edit out the rest of the sentence that pointed out actual counter play just to make a funny point about the chance of 15% proc'ing twice in a row being low

ecru · April 2018

Subversus wrote: »

I agree with you. 30% dodge chance in pvp is absurdly broken in a fast paced game like eso.

And yes, to all those wondering, I know I said 30%. If you don’t know what I’m talking about then balance discussions are probably not for you.

where are people getting 30% dodge chance from? also i agree, passive avoidance isn't really something that should exist in any pvp game of any type.

Kanar wrote: »

L2P issue. Evasion is fine.

it can't be a L2P issue since there is no direct counterplay to passive avoidance when using abilities that can be dodged--no amount of learning will make those abilities land.

josiahva · April 2018

Whats the difference between this and a shield? Oh, thats right...a shield negates the damage 100% of the time. You are looking at it wrong, think of shuffle as a type of sub-par shield.

AmericanSpy · April 2018

Kanar wrote: »

AmericanSpy wrote: »

Sky_WK wrote: »

Kanar wrote: »

L2P issue. Evasion is fine.

Explain.

How do you actively counter a passive ability? Please TEACH me how to hit an RNG roll.

The game has an ACTIVE Dodge mechanic, how about you L2P with that and not hide behind RNG and claim "skill".

Just like the game has an ACTIVE block mechanic and so all resistances should be removed, right?

Plenty of skills are undodgeable. Those are active counters to a passive ability.

Man guess your right. Semi trucks and jet fighters ARE the same thing. IDK what I was thinking.

Next time, at least attempt to be coherent.

Minno · April 2018

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

LOL.

The only change to dodge that is necessary is that evasion needs to be removed from sets that aren't medium armor. MA is already way behind the other two in PVP. This would be game-breaking.

by that logic, should CP also remove access to dodge roll reduction for everyone that isn't using 5pc medium?

Absolutely

Ok. What are your suggestions to help out classes that don't use a shield but use active dodge rolling already without medium armor?

NyassaV · April 2018

josiahva wrote: »

Whats the difference between this and a shield? Oh, thats right...a shield negates the damage 100% of the time. You are looking at it wrong, think of shuffle as a type of sub-par shield.

You still get hit therefore you can still me snared, or defiled. Wards are far more comparable to blocking.