Enough with the stupid nightblade heals (ie, don’t change cloak)

Raraaku · April 2018

davey1107 wrote: »

I am thinking about the various roles, stam and magic based.

My point is that it doesn’t make sense to cram a heal into a skill that eliminates the class’s core perk. Because:

- there are other skills where it makes more sense to add this heal (my choice is malevolent offering, which is a horrible skill already and has two morphs that are weak variations of a horrible skill)

- the 99% of nightblades who are not tanks deserve a solid choice between viable cloak variants. Cloak should be invisibility, then a choice between two different solid perks.

- we’ve been on Zos about problems with shadowy forever, so those of us who use stealth now have the option of a semi-broken stealth skill or nothing.

- why does a NB burst heal have to be an effing choice between that and the core ability? This is like saying sorcs can have hardened Ward or a morph that heals. It creates a stupid choice that I can’t find a similar case for on any other class ability across the five classes.

Have you chosen and regularly used Dark Cloak over Shadowy Disguise? Is the (at max) 5 seconds of minor protection that good? I know it's eliminating the invisibility, but so what? I don't think that ZoS would completely rework a morph that is regularly used among a large player population. Consuming Darkness is being reworked to grant major protection for 8 seconds, even when leaving the area. The vast majority of the time I've seen someone use the cloak abilities, it's Shadowy Disguise.

Malevolent Offering has it's uses, particularly pre-fight for health tanks. But, it's HoT and sacrificing health for a burst heal would be OP/broken as it would be infinitely spammable.

I don't see why offering a burst heal in a skill line that's NB's tanking skill line on a morph that other skills can do much better (outside of invisibility) and who's opposite morph is chosen over it the vast majority of the time due to it being vastly superior to those who would utilize stealth in the first place. If you want to use it as an escape mechanism, it's very meh, especially compared to a burst heal that also would grant you Major Ward/Resolve for at least 3 seconds.

I imagine the two purposes of invisibility are for escape, or for sneak attack multiplies. You still get the latter, and you get an arguably better replacement for the former.

Sevn · April 2018

NB'S are the only class without a dedicated heal, I see this as a step in the right direction. Honestly this change works well for me as I always choose shadowy disguise and I never run cloak when I'm doing group content as it's pointless. I mainly use cloak for stealing and DBH/TG content.

My PvP nb is a brawler anyway, it'll be nice having access to 2 heals and I plan on playing a much tankier nb since cloak is causing so much grief in pvp.

Can't wait until they start complaining about heavy armor 60k health nb's who don't run away but they still can't kill.

Kikke · April 2018

increase cost for incap, keep changes too strife, remove cloak and gut the ult regen. There! I fixed your class Zenimax Style!

Avran_Sylt · April 2018

It promotes build diversity, while at the same time making player choice impactful. If you want to play sneaky, then you don't get a % max HP heal. If you want to play tanky, then you don't get a spammable powerful escape tool. While this may seem restricting, it offers a larger range of options than previously.

It's another method, and a new method, to add in more choice to classes while at the same time attempting to balance them by restricting skill combinations. I hope that ZoS will eventually approach other classes in this manner as well. (Though that does require other classes to have token skills)

temjiu · April 2018

Nope. I like the change. It's obvious that you don't tank on your NB, or you'd realize how nice this is. I'm glad it's here, and it can stay as long as it likes.

NB isn't a stealth class. It's an ESO class with some stealth abilities, and like every other class in ESO, they are (supposed) to be designed to fill any role. Tanking is a role. /thread.

Kierro · April 2018

Not really to the OP but does anyone have a good/great NB healer build for PvP/PvE or one that'd work for both? I have a loadout I've altered a bit, called a Blood Mage (use to play a Blood Mage in Dragon Age 1 & 2 alot). I know Vampire helps with magic, but I hate how it changes my look and the weaknesses it has.

Priyasekarssk · April 2018

davey1107 wrote: »

I play nightblades 85% of the time. I know that we have often asked for heals. But the cloak changes...sigh.

For those who don’t know, the Summerset pts will include a morph of cloak (dark cloak) that provides ZERO stealth but heals you for 33%. The other morph remains a stealth skill. This is why I think the change is stupid:

- nightblades are increasingly being crippled with changes to their tool box that make skills unviable. This will be an unviable skill. It will be yet another change that pushes me into a meta build because OF COURSE your dps stealth class is going to choose stealth and crit over a lame heal. Every skill that has been reworked since launch has become garbage. The balances have been fine...but the retooled skills have been destroyed.

- nightblades don’t need a weak heal. The stupid “30% max health” heals on every other class stink. My magblades are still going to run harness and soul swallow, and use a restro heal if I need it. My stamblades are going to still run vigor and mark/execute for heals. I’m not going to waste a slot on this entirely unnecessary and underperforming heal.

- there are other skills in the box that could become heals if one is so direly needed. How about that idiotic skill where you sacrifice health to give your allies a tiny bit more health? That skill is stupid...play with that one.

- from an rpg perspective, how does it make sense that a skill called dark cloak heals you?

- this is a STEALTH CLASS, and there are a dozen things that dark cloak could do that would offer an attractive alternative to shadowy disguise (I mean, if a change is needed. Dark cloak was kinda good). It could extend the duration one second. It could increase your speed while cloaked. It could make you immune to AOEs. It could make you immune to magelight. Cloak is about stealth and mobility. Making it a heal is just...sigh.

This is a bad change. It’s not the end of the world, because hey, we can just toss the morph in the trash with everything else you’ve done for nightblades in the past two years. But it’s also unnecessary to mess up a morph when it could have been made a stealth skill with attractive features instead.

Play other classes which you think overpowered. Problem solved.

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

kikkehs wrote: »

increase cost for incap, keep changes too strife, remove cloak and gut the ult regen. There! I fixed your class Zenimax Style!

If nothing else works, just let wrobel do his thing

ChefZero · April 2018

Step 1: equip Heavy Armor

Step 2: drop Restro and equip S&B with extra health on board

Step 3: slot Dark Clock

Step 4: slot Healthy Offering

Step 5: ENJOY IT

RavenSworn · April 2018

ChefZero wrote: »

Step 1: equip Heavy Armor

Step 2: drop Restro and equip S&B with extra health on board

Step 3: slot Dark Clock

Step 4: slot Healthy Offering

Step 5: ENJOY IT

That's what I plan for my magnb tank. Add sap essence, healthy offering and funnel health...

exeeter702 · April 2018

ChefZero wrote: »

Step 1: equip Heavy Armor

Step 2: drop Restro and equip S&B with extra health on board

Step 3: slot Dark Clock

Step 4: slot Healthy Offering

Step 5: ENJOY IT

Naw.. healthy offering really gets its mileage out of magicka and sp on a properly built Nb healer, if you are shooting for high hp values to get the most out of the new cloak, your healthy offering is going to be very weak especially since you also wont be getting much at all out of minor mending.

Dark cloak for high health NBs
Healthy offering for healing NBs

ChefZero · April 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Step 1: equip Heavy Armor

Step 2: drop Restro and equip S&B with extra health on board

Step 3: slot Dark Clock

Step 4: slot Healthy Offering

Step 5: ENJOY IT

Naw.. healthy offering really gets its mileage out of magicka and sp on a properly built Nb healer, if you are shooting for high hp values to get the most out of the new cloak, your healthy offering is going to be very weak especially since you also wont be getting much at all out of minor mending.

Dark cloak for high health NBs
Healthy offering for healing NBs

Well this is your opinion.
IMO Offering is freaking strong anyways. One tick of Offering and Funnel outheal the costs. So you can keep a HoT on cooldown without touching your magicka pool.
And I don't know why a max health % heal automatically implies that I have to rush for health as hell and sacrifice magicka.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

Offering wont be useful to me until they remove that godawful targeting system. Whoever thought that was a good idea should get a stapler to the back of the head.

You'd be better off slotting swallow soul for the passive healing taken bonus and then using dark cloak.

_Salty_ · April 2018

Im a Nightblade tank. I love the change.

datgladiatah · April 2018

Raraaku wrote: »

davey1107 wrote: »

I am thinking about the various roles, stam and magic based.

My point is that it doesn’t make sense to cram a heal into a skill that eliminates the class’s core perk. Because:

- there are other skills where it makes more sense to add this heal (my choice is malevolent offering, which is a horrible skill already and has two morphs that are weak variations of a horrible skill)

- the 99% of nightblades who are not tanks deserve a solid choice between viable cloak variants. Cloak should be invisibility, then a choice between two different solid perks.

- we’ve been on Zos about problems with shadowy forever, so those of us who use stealth now have the option of a semi-broken stealth skill or nothing.

- why does a NB burst heal have to be an effing choice between that and the core ability? This is like saying sorcs can have hardened Ward or a morph that heals. It creates a stupid choice that I can’t find a similar case for on any other class ability across the five classes.

Have you chosen and regularly used Dark Cloak over Shadowy Disguise? Is the (at max) 5 seconds of minor protection that good? I know it's eliminating the invisibility, but so what? I don't think that ZoS would completely rework a morph that is regularly used among a large player population. Consuming Darkness is being reworked to grant major protection for 8 seconds, even when leaving the area. The vast majority of the time I've seen someone use the cloak abilities, it's Shadowy Disguise.

Malevolent Offering has it's uses, particularly pre-fight for health tanks. But, it's HoT and sacrificing health for a burst heal would be OP/broken as it would be infinitely spammable.

I don't see why offering a burst heal in a skill line that's NB's tanking skill line on a morph that other skills can do much better (outside of invisibility) and who's opposite morph is chosen over it the vast majority of the time due to it being vastly superior to those who would utilize stealth in the first place. If you want to use it as an escape mechanism, it's very meh, especially compared to a burst heal that also would grant you Major Ward/Resolve for at least 3 seconds.

I imagine the two purposes of invisibility are for escape, or for sneak attack multiplies. You still get the latter, and you get an arguably better replacement for the former.

Well... actually healthy offering is becoming a burst heal next xpack so...

aeowulf · April 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

And here we have another player who thinks DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS!!11!! is the only thing in this game. I hope you're forever cursed with fake tanks in any dungeon you ever have to run.

And FYI, the 'other class' 30% max heals being useless? Far from it. My dragonknight with 32k health gets a 28k crit heal out of dragon blood at 20% health or lower. The new dark cloak will be healing for similar amounts at -any- range of health.

Completely agree, there are WAY too many people that think like this

Anyone not being aware their class can perform multiple roles means they are lacking in class knowledge

Anyone not taking that into consideration is erm... not considerate!

Just wanted to add, assassinate is DPS tree, shadow is tank tree. Any changes that make the trees more DPS's or tanky respectively get my vote.

davey1107 · April 2018

And here we have another player who thinks DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS!!11!!

Keyboard got away from you there at the end.

What I actually said was that cloak should morph into two stealth skills, the second offering some sort of defensive perk. And I suggested that the heal would be fine as a morph elsewhere in the skill tree where it makes more sense.

Brrrofski · April 2018

Irony is that I doubt I'll use it on my saptank. With high spell damage and magica pool, refreshing path, funnel health and sap give me so much healing that I don't need any more. I have no room for it on my bar either.

Lord_Ninka · April 2018

Useless? Sounds very useful to my nightblade tank. The only real weakness of that build is the lack of an instant heal like that. My only worry would be classes becoming too similar and losing their individual personalities, but the that new cloak really does sound super useful.

Oh, and btw, offering is a very useful skill for my healer. Effective as well as interesting to use.

Stealth class, sure, but spamming cloak isn't the only viable nightblade play style, nor should it be imo. I play nightblades far most of the time, too, and I have lots of fun with builds that don't use invisibility or stealth at all in combat. Let other people's builds have a bit of love as well as your own, yeah?

Feanor · April 2018

When someone suggests a more “interesting” morph for stealth it’s going to be some overpowered stuff 99% of times. As this thread shows NB Tanks welcome the change, it’s not always about damage (and no ones really uses cloak for damage dealing in harder content in PvE anyway).

Raraaku · April 2018

datgladiatah wrote: »

Well... actually healthy offering is becoming a burst heal next xpack so...

it is? How is that going to work? That could be interesting, but I'm trying to think of a way it could be implemented without infinitely spammed. Unless it's one of those types where you can toggle for a burst heal but it heals for less than the HoT.

KRBMMO · April 2018

davey1107 wrote: »

I play nightblades 85% of the time. I know that we have often asked for heals. But the cloak changes...sigh.

For those who don’t know, the Summerset pts will include a morph of cloak (dark cloak) that provides ZERO stealth but heals you for 33%. The other morph remains a stealth skill. This is why I think the change is stupid:

- nightblades are increasingly being crippled with changes to their tool box that make skills unviable. This will be an unviable skill. It will be yet another change that pushes me into a meta build because OF COURSE your dps stealth class is going to choose stealth and crit over a lame heal. Every skill that has been reworked since launch has become garbage. The balances have been fine...but the retooled skills have been destroyed.

- nightblades don’t need a weak heal. The stupid “30% max health” heals on every other class stink. My magblades are still going to run harness and soul swallow, and use a restro heal if I need it. My stamblades are going to still run vigor and mark/execute for heals. I’m not going to waste a slot on this entirely unnecessary and underperforming heal.

- there are other skills in the box that could become heals if one is so direly needed. How about that idiotic skill where you sacrifice health to give your allies a tiny bit more health? That skill is stupid...play with that one.

- from an rpg perspective, how does it make sense that a skill called dark cloak heals you?

- this is a STEALTH CLASS, and there are a dozen things that dark cloak could do that would offer an attractive alternative to shadowy disguise (I mean, if a change is needed. Dark cloak was kinda good). It could extend the duration one second. It could increase your speed while cloaked. It could make you immune to AOEs. It could make you immune to magelight. Cloak is about stealth and mobility. Making it a heal is just...sigh.

This is a bad change. It’s not the end of the world, because hey, we can just toss the morph in the trash with everything else you’ve done for nightblades in the past two years. But it’s also unnecessary to mess up a morph when it could have been made a stealth skill with attractive features instead.

They destroyed SAP tanks so now they have to rebuild something to fill the gap.

exeeter702 · April 2018

Raraaku wrote: »

datgladiatah wrote: »

Well... actually healthy offering is becoming a burst heal next xpack so...

it is? How is that going to work? That could be interesting, but I'm trying to think of a way it could be implemented without infinitely spammed. Unless it's one of those types where you can toggle for a burst heal but it heals for less than the HoT.

Its a smart heal for a target in front of you, similar to how BOL works, and the health cost is applied to you as an oblivion damage dot over 8 seconds for each target you heal with it. Honestly i am against this change. The smart heal change is fine, but the heavy emphasis on very potent heal over time effects it what really makes the NB healer standout. When played right, NB healers NEVER needed a strong single target burst heal.

MalakithAlamahdi · April 2018

Buff cloak so it makes you dissapear from the server after use.

Koensol · April 2018

ChefZero wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Step 1: equip Heavy Armor

Step 2: drop Restro and equip S&B with extra health on board

Step 3: slot Dark Clock

Step 4: slot Healthy Offering

Step 5: ENJOY IT

Naw.. healthy offering really gets its mileage out of magicka and sp on a properly built Nb healer, if you are shooting for high hp values to get the most out of the new cloak, your healthy offering is going to be very weak especially since you also wont be getting much at all out of minor mending.

Dark cloak for high health NBs
Healthy offering for healing NBs

Well this is your opinion.
IMO Offering is freaking strong anyways. One tick of Offering and Funnel outheal the costs. So you can keep a HoT on cooldown without touching your magicka pool.
And I don't know why a max health % heal automatically implies that I have to rush for health as hell and sacrifice magicka.

I was even using healthy offering on stamblade in pvp, because it was that good.

exeeter702 · April 2018

ChefZero wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Step 1: equip Heavy Armor

Step 2: drop Restro and equip S&B with extra health on board

Step 3: slot Dark Clock

Step 4: slot Healthy Offering

Step 5: ENJOY IT

Naw.. healthy offering really gets its mileage out of magicka and sp on a properly built Nb healer, if you are shooting for high hp values to get the most out of the new cloak, your healthy offering is going to be very weak especially since you also wont be getting much at all out of minor mending.

Dark cloak for high health NBs
Healthy offering for healing NBs

Well this is your opinion.
IMO Offering is freaking strong anyways. One tick of Offering and Funnel outheal the costs. So you can keep a HoT on cooldown without touching your magicka pool.
And I don't know why a max health % heal automatically implies that I have to rush for health as hell and sacrifice magicka.

I mean i guess... it objectively scales very poorly at sub 25k magicka, just saying, there are better was to net yourself survival sustain when building around higher hp tank than healthy offering, which really isnt an opinion. But if you would be so kind to maybe post a tool tip of offerings hot value on a tanky high hp setup..

Heavy armor magicka nb makes incredible use of it, but for dark cloak to be worth slotting you really want to make use of the 35 percent missing health heal, so at 25k hp its meh. The 2 skills simply do not complement each other, i mean i guess, if you glyph and build around aiming for 30k hp 30k magicka you will get average tool tip values out of both but that terrible.

Rohamad_Ali · April 2018

I share these feelings op . Completely and wish a new skill that made sense would of been added for our Tankblade friends . Why do they change iconic abilities and fear adding new ? That leads to more diversity right ?

Joshuagm1991 · April 2018

Your class truly is not crippled.

ChefZero · April 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

exeeter702 wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

Step 1: equip Heavy Armor

Step 2: drop Restro and equip S&B with extra health on board

Step 3: slot Dark Clock

Step 4: slot Healthy Offering

Step 5: ENJOY IT

Naw.. healthy offering really gets its mileage out of magicka and sp on a properly built Nb healer, if you are shooting for high hp values to get the most out of the new cloak, your healthy offering is going to be very weak especially since you also wont be getting much at all out of minor mending.

Dark cloak for high health NBs
Healthy offering for healing NBs

Well this is your opinion.
IMO Offering is freaking strong anyways. One tick of Offering and Funnel outheal the costs. So you can keep a HoT on cooldown without touching your magicka pool.
And I don't know why a max health % heal automatically implies that I have to rush for health as hell and sacrifice magicka.

I mean i guess... it objectively scales very poorly at sub 25k magicka, just saying, there are better was to net yourself survival sustain when building around higher hp tank than healthy offering, which really isnt an opinion. But if you would be so kind to maybe post a tool tip of offerings hot value on a tanky high hp setup..

Heavy armor magicka nb makes incredible use of it, but for dark cloak to be worth slotting you really want to make use of the 35 percent missing health heal, so at 25k hp its meh. The 2 skills simply do not complement each other, i mean i guess, if you glyph and build around aiming for 30k hp 30k magicka you will get average tool tip values out of both but that terrible.

Seems like we are talking about different scenarios. My thoughts are about solo PvE and PvP generally. Atm I'm running a light armor 5/1/1 setup with 44k+ magicka and 26k+ health on live. So both skills (Offering on live and Cloak on PTS, Offering on PTS sucks IMO) would be wonderful and castable without restro. Also a heavy armor build for summerset is on my schedule with some less magicka and some more health.

bpmachete · April 2018

It would have made more sense to put this heal on the Mirage Morph, its an ability that NB Tanks use and the heal on that would have been perfect for that morph and then have Double Take remove snares would be perfect for regular nightblades. Taking away a morph of Cloak and removing a 3 second minor protection from a stealth nightblade doesn't make room for variety and now nightblades will be more likely to use stealth more and use the crit to attack, where more brawler style nightblades used to use Dark Cloak for a 3 second respite of 8% damage mitigation while getting zerged down with every skill breaking the cloak.

@ZOS_GinaBruno please see if the Devs can think about how it makes much more sense to make it a Blur Morph, and rework Blur to be more in line with other classes, like Wardens Minor protection, and DK's health percent heals.