Enough with the stupid nightblade heals (ie, don’t change cloak)

davey1107

I play nightblades 85% of the time. I know that we have often asked for heals. But the cloak changes...sigh.

For those who don’t know, the Summerset pts will include a morph of cloak (dark cloak) that provides ZERO stealth but heals you for 33%. The other morph remains a stealth skill. This is why I think the change is stupid:

- nightblades are increasingly being crippled with changes to their tool box that make skills unviable. This will be an unviable skill. It will be yet another change that pushes me into a meta build because OF COURSE your dps stealth class is going to choose stealth and crit over a lame heal. Every skill that has been reworked since launch has become garbage. The balances have been fine...but the retooled skills have been destroyed.

- nightblades don’t need a weak heal. The stupid “30% max health” heals on every other class stink. My magblades are still going to run harness and soul swallow, and use a restro heal if I need it. My stamblades are going to still run vigor and mark/execute for heals. I’m not going to waste a slot on this entirely unnecessary and underperforming heal.

- there are other skills in the box that could become heals if one is so direly needed. How about that idiotic skill where you sacrifice health to give your allies a tiny bit more health? That skill is stupid...play with that one.

- from an rpg perspective, how does it make sense that a skill called dark cloak heals you?

- this is a STEALTH CLASS, and there are a dozen things that dark cloak could do that would offer an attractive alternative to shadowy disguise (I mean, if a change is needed. Dark cloak was kinda good). It could extend the duration one second. It could increase your speed while cloaked. It could make you immune to AOEs. It could make you immune to magelight. Cloak is about stealth and mobility. Making it a heal is just...sigh.

This is a bad change. It’s not the end of the world, because hey, we can just toss the morph in the trash with everything else you’ve done for nightblades in the past two years. But it’s also unnecessary to mess up a morph when it could have been made a stealth skill with attractive features instead.

Avran_Sylt

This skill is for End-game NB TANKING.

And it could be easily renamed to Soothing Mantle or something more fitting.

Didaco

Mate calm down, it's meant for tanking.

Checkmath

Just wanted to say something similar. This is the bone nightblade tanks will get, since they lost so much with the changes last year. Nb tanks suddenly became extinct and this will help them recover.
I dont thinks its a bad move to take the unused morph of cloak to make something usable with it. Sure magnbs wont use it with all their hots and healing ward and stamnbs will not use it either, since the other morph is more desired to recover in cloak. And exactly thats why they tool the unused morph for this new tool. Only the other morph was used so far because if the crit healing inside cloak. Doesnt matter if you are defiled and low health, vigor and rally both critting to 100% will get you up.

Sixty5

- nightblades are increasingly being crippled with changes to their tool box that make skills unviable. This will be an unviable skill. It will be yet another change that pushes me into a meta build because OF COURSE your dps stealth class is going to choose stealth and crit over a lame heal. Every skill that has been reworked since launch has become garbage. The balances have been fine...but the retooled skills have been destroyed.

Except that this is giving tanky nightblades a new tool to use. You are able to play a high health nightblade tank, and have access to something that is going to heal you for a lot.

- nightblades don’t need a weak heal. The stupid “30% max health” heals on every other class stink. My magblades are still going to run harness and soul swallow, and use a restro heal if I need it. My stamblades are going to still run vigor and mark/execute for heals. I’m not going to waste a slot on this entirely unnecessary and underperforming heal.

The a 33% HP heal that can crit, and scales off of all your healing amps, so you are looking at 20k plus heals on tankblades in PVE. That is pretty disgusting tbh.
And the morph isn't meant to be used by offensive builds, given that they do have access to those other heals.

- there are other skills in the box that could become heals if one is so direly needed. How about that idiotic skill where you sacrifice health to give your allies a tiny bit more health? That skill is stupid...play with that one.

That skill did get a buff, now it works a lot more like breath of life, and is meant to help out nightblade healers.

- from an rpg perspective, how does it make sense that a skill called dark cloak heals you?

The same way it makes sense for the Shadow Tree to have a passive that increases your max HP for each ability slotted. Dark Vigor is a thing, so the link is there.

- this is a STEALTH CLASS, and there are a dozen things that dark cloak could do that would offer an attractive alternative to shadowy disguise (I mean, if a change is needed. Dark cloak was kinda good). It could extend the duration one second. It could increase your speed while cloaked. It could make you immune to AOEs. It could make you immune to magelight. Cloak is about stealth and mobility. Making it a heal is just...sigh.

"Change the morph to something that removes counters to stealth" No.
And Dark cloak wans't good. Minor Protection is a nice buff, but the invisibility aspect made it non-viable for Nightblade tanks, and for other Nightblades being able to cloak up and heal to full was better survivability.

This is a bad change. It’s not the end of the world, because hey, we can just toss the morph in the trash with everything else you’ve done for nightblades in the past two years. But it’s also unnecessary to mess up a morph when it could have been made a stealth skill with attractive features instead.

Except that Nightblades are overperforming in both PVP and PVE, and the actual good morph of the skill was untouched.
Killing a hipster skill to give other varients of the class more viability isn't exactly killing the class either.

Murador178

Checkmath wrote: »

Just wanted to say something similar. This is the bone nightblade tanks will get, since they lost so much with the changes last year. Nb tanks suddenly became extinct and this will help them recover.
I dont thinks its a bad move to take the unused morph of cloak to make something usable with it. Sure magnbs wont use it with all their hots and healing ward and stamnbs will not use it either, since the other morph is more desired to recover in cloak. And exactly thats why they tool the unused morph for this new tool. Only the other morph was used so far because if the crit healing inside cloak. Doesnt matter if you are defiled and low health, vigor and rally both critting to 100% will get you up.

JUST no. Sry Check but not a single decent stamblade used that morph. Even so there is a forum troll campaign telling us over and over how strong crit cloak is. Crit cloak gets cosumed by the first dot tick. So to use crit cloak reliable u would need to drop shadow image and Poison injection , bleeds. The crit healing is a myth - almost as funny as people thinking mending affects shields . So I see the change as a -8% defense nerf. But the shadow image change will compensate that openworld.

@Sixty5 For u Sir aswell - dark cloak was the good morph. So cloak will still be too strong unmarked and u will still be marked vs all the zergs....

Checkmath

Then i want to buy nbs healings...also want to refill my whole health bar in seconds while being invisible...even with defile on me...i need healing!

Murador178

Checkmath wrote: »

Then i want to buy nbs healings...also want to refill my whole health bar in seconds while being invisible...even with defile on me...i need healing!

I dont get it. Most nbs u are facing are not using shadow cloak - neither is cyndis, me or masterken. It doesnt work except u play without dots.

PS: rallye just heals that much - thats why almost no stam build can drop 2h...

Checkmath

In bergama there are a lot og gankblades duelling. All they do is hit and cloak.
and in open world they are even more present. I dont mind the stamnbs duelers, who do not use cloak

Skander

Also the second morph will still cloak, so no.

This topic is useless


I can tho at least play a heavy magblade with a reliable heal in pvp

Checkmath

Skander play mageblade and doesnt like cloak, fantastic ^^
But actually thr only thing useless in this topic are useless comments like yours Skander. How about not participating in a topic, as long as you cant say something constructive?

TheDoomsdayMonster

The OP is thinking about the change as pertains PvP...

Its clear to me that he didn't give it any thought as pertains to tanking in PvE...


Thus, the overreaction...

Atleast that's how I see it...

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

To clarify, it is 33% health over the 3 seconds, so you get 3 ticks of 11%.

Vapirko

It will possibly be useful to brawler NBs in PvP, although probably not since like Warden spores it looks decent on paper but in reality you end up dropping it for other skills. The name the game for solo heals in PvP these days is hots and why would you slot this over vigor? You definitely wouldn’t use it over forward momentum since that has a snare removal and rally is far stronger. Idk it just seems like it won’t have much of anplace. I really don’t agree with the moves to make all classes capable of everything but that’s what the masses want apparently.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

.why would you slot this over vigor?

You wouldn't, it is a tank skill, for 30k+ health pve tanks. This is like people that complain that artic wind is bad on a dps build. Well duh, it is a tank skill you are trying to use. Or sun sheild or green dragons blood or the clanfear heal.

Come to think of it, templars are the only class without a percentage health based heal now. They only have sun sheild.

Ragnaroek93

Checkmath wrote: »

In bergama there are a lot og gankblades duelling. All they do is hit and cloak.
and in open world they are even more present. I dont mind the stamnbs duelers, who do not use cloak

I use Dark Cloak too. Losing Minor Protection for a guaranteed dot crit isn't worth it

Strider__Roshin

Not every Nightblade likes to hide like a coward. I only used Dark Cloak for its ability to purge DoTs. When they removed that ability I took it off my bar, and never slotted it again. I'm personally looking forward to trying this new Dark Cloak out, and I will most likely end up putting it on my bar to use in conjunction with Vigor.

Aztlan

I'm a heavy armor NB brawler in PvP as well, and dots are an important part of my kit, so I also took Dark Cloak. I understand why they're making the change, but now I'll be faced with either trying to make use of this skill and doing without stealth, or going back to Shadowy Disguise. It'll probably be the latter.

ccfeeling

Have u tank in end game trial or DLC vdun HM with NB?

New dark cloak is required.

You won't understand because u pvp only.

Brutusmax1mus

I'm actually really excited about this for pvp. My build lets me stack into health @Lightspeedflashb14_ESO is that confirmed?

Raraaku

As someone who plays a NB tank, I like the change. It also makes sense if you compare the shadow cloak morphs. If you're DPS you are (most likely) going to choose Shadowy Disguise for the guraunteed crit as well as stealth. Dark Cloak, while the minor protection is nice, being invisible is extremely counter intuitive to your role as tank. Also, it would further help NB tanks via the Shadow passives. Many of them are geared towards tanks, Dark Vigor and Shadow Barrier in particular comes to mind.

NB tanks also lack an on-deman burst heal. By that I mean while NB has some very nice burst heals via Mark Target and Killer's Blade, they are activated by kills. Tanks are meant to hold/position bosses and absorb their blows. If the healer goes down, or is otherwise busy, a NB tank doesn't really have access to an on-demand burst heal for when things go downhill quickly. DK has dragon blood and obsidian shard. Sorcerers have Clannfear and Matriarch. Templars and Wardens have entire skill lines devoted to healing. Only NBs don't have such a burst heal. I rather like the change.

Ragnarock41

This skill is for nb tanks. Your pvp nb needs no buffs and you should be glad nbs didnt get morrowind dk treatment.

Silver_Strider

What exactly is the point of Minor Protection on an ability designed to hide you from enemies? I mean, if you get found out, you either kill or get killed, in which case either morph of Cloak is viable for that purpose as 1 makes it so that you can put more pressure on the enemy and the other is so you can play more defensively, only now the defensive morph is getting a heal attached to it but losing out on the stealth aspect of it, which is pointless a lot of the time as any good player will keep you out of stealth once they've found you. Sorcs will just Hurricane or Streak to get you out of cloak, DK just Talons you, Spiked Armor or Inhale you out, NBs mark you making cloak redundant, Templars have a jabs that rip you out of cloak and a very large AoE DoT to prevent you from going back into stealth. Only Warden's are hardpressed to keep a NB out of stealth and even then, Mage Light and Detect Pots are things.

Of course, that isn't to say that Shadowy Disguise isn't without its problem, most of which could be solved if Shadowy Disguise was made to only use up its crit buff on the next Direct Hit ability only, but it's still better suited to play to a NB's strength, which is bursting down your opponent and guaranteed Crits on their burst skills can really put the hurt on anyone if not outright kill them and while it would be nice not to have to worry about our DoTs wasting that crit bonus, it's just how it is currently (it's also why I opt to not use Axes in PvP on my Stamblade, to limit the number of DoTs I'll have to be careful of).

So maybe, instead of complaining about this buff to NB tanks, we should be speaking more about changing Shadowy Disguise to not interact with DoT ticks, how's that?

Lynx7386

And here we have another player who thinks DPS DPS DPS DPS DPS!!11!! is the only thing in this game. I hope you're forever cursed with fake tanks in any dungeon you ever have to run.

And FYI, the 'other class' 30% max heals being useless? Far from it. My dragonknight with 32k health gets a 28k crit heal out of dragon blood at 20% health or lower. The new dark cloak will be healing for similar amounts at -any- range of health.

redspecter23

I stopped reading when you said the skill would be unviable. I'm not sure you've given this any thought at all.

Finedaible

I think Summerset cloak will be a good change. At the very least, it might provide a better healing option for the solo Stamblade other than relying on that PvP, crutch-skill Vigor. I just hope this does turn out to be good heal for stamblades, as the Malevolent Offering offers nothing for them.

Besides, you can't stealth Group Dungeons and Trials, so I'd rather heal and give myself minor protection.

xaraan

Gotta love the forums lol. This change is amazing. I've dreamed of a burst self heal for my NB tank for so long and making players choose between a burst heal and invis for pvp is a good bit of balancing on top of it. And frankly, the morph that gets minor protection is the one that should go into the tanking NB toolkit.

Gilvoth

Checkmath wrote: »

Then i want to buy nbs healings...also want to refill my whole health bar in seconds while being invisible...even with defile on me...i need healing!

then use a healing staff like they do.
because that is how thier healing, has nothing to do with cloak.

davey1107

Its clear to me that he didn't give it any thought as pertains to tanking in PvE...

I am thinking about the various roles, stam and magic based.

My point is that it doesn’t make sense to cram a heal into a skill that eliminates the class’s core perk. Because:

- there are other skills where it makes more sense to add this heal (my choice is malevolent offering, which is a horrible skill already and has two morphs that are weak variations of a horrible skill)

- the 99% of nightblades who are not tanks deserve a solid choice between viable cloak variants. Cloak should be invisibility, then a choice between two different solid perks.

- we’ve been on Zos about problems with shadowy forever, so those of us who use stealth now have the option of a semi-broken stealth skill or nothing.

- why does a NB burst heal have to be an effing choice between that and the core ability? This is like saying sorcs can have hardened Ward or a morph that heals. It creates a stupid choice that I can’t find a similar case for on any other class ability across the five classes.

redspecter23

davey1107 wrote: »

- why does a NB burst heal have to be an effing choice between that and the core ability? This is like saying sorcs can have hardened Ward or a morph that heals. It creates a stupid choice that I can’t find a similar case for on any other class ability across the five classes.

That is likely the exact reason that the NB burst heal takes up the same slot as invisibility. ZOS understands that both are powerful defensive abilities and they don't want both to be available at the same time on the same build. It's a purposeful change that forces hard choices instead of being able to just take the best ability every time.

Colecovision

There should have always been a basic heal. Glad they’re fixing the mistake. We can’t do it while invisible, fine, I understand. Just make changing skill morphs like cp. I shouldn’t have to go to a shrine and redo everything to be sneaky and then have a heal. The skills aren’t even related.