Well only good can come from it

Open PTS for such a big expansion is stupid imo

On the one hand, beta testing is great because you get to hunt for bugs, try out new stuff and make suggestions (that sometimes get implemented).

On the other hand, it spoils the surprise - sometimes so much so that you aren't all that excited when it goes live. It's kinda like been there, done that, now I have to do it all over again because all my effort got wiped out.

I was in all pts including morrowind so I be in this one as well.

Anyone apart from Morrowind PTS testers got their Summerset PTS invitationon email?

Saturn wrote: »

In their most recent news post to the site, ZOS confirmed that the PTS for Summerset will be a closed test accessed only by those invited, and with an NDA agreement, like they did with the Morrowind chapter last year.

I took part in the Morrowind test last year, and was pretty frustrated with the whole ordeal, since the feedback from the "closed beta" testers was mostly ignored, unless it was lore specific, and it seemed like closing off the test server and employing an NDA was more to avoid any negative information leaking out (and thereby killing the hypetrain), than it was to avoid story-spoilers being leaked, as ZOS claims. This year the NDA is only story-specific (as someone corrected me on), so that does change things a bit.

I know, however, that I might be in the minority with such an opinion, so I'm interested to see what other people think about it being closed off. If you could also comment whether or not you took part in Morrowind's closed PTS that would be nice.

Pretty standard for expansions to MMORPGS

While i'm looking forward to the beta I remember too well that they didn't change a single thing about the Telvanni Tower house even though they got overwhelmingly negative feedback on it. I feel it's pretty clear that unless something is discovered to be literally game breaking they don't listen to the feedback they get from the playtesters at all.

It's literally just the main story under nda...

GatheredMyst wrote: »

Thinking that an NDA, something that is used for a lot of beta tests in a lot of MMO's, is just to "hide the bad news", is extremely paranoid, IMO.

@GatheredMyst
That was literally what happened last year though. No negative information could get out, and thus people who pre-ordered it weren't fully informed about what they were getting. I know a lot of people who quit after Morrowind's release and were very upset about the nerf bomb being dropped on them out of nowhere. Granted that won't be an issue this time around, but it was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the words NDA (and then missed the "story-specific" part, lol). I don't think it's paranoia if it's based in prior experience from the same company. And let's be honest, ZOS isn't as transparent as they claim, and a lot of their shady business models still persist despite community outrage, so it's no surprise they care more about revenue streams than customer satisfaction, and thus will do what they can to prevent any potential losses. It's a smart business move, sure, but it doesn't exactly scream "transparency". So no, I don't believe it's paranoia.

Joy_Division wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

This year the NDA is only story-specific (as someone corrected me on), so that does change things a bit.

That's the right way to go about it I think.

Yeah it's not a bad thing, and I'm glad we can at least openly talk about the rest of the game, as I believe we should have been allowed to with Morrowind. I'm glad they at least adjusted their standpoint on that.

I like it. I agree with the above comments about spoilers or people putting out content before the release. Part of their sales tactic is the suspense and surprise.

Invite only is ok as well. I believe they did the same for morrowind. They are using PTS to try and gather value feedback around mechanics and 2) people to play and hopefully find bugs. MMOs are too large, along with open world games, to find every bug with a testing team. They need people that know the game and will participate instead of sea of voices and have to pick through the responses.

Danikat wrote: »

I don't think most of the Morrowind feedback was ignored because it was done under NDA. If they didn't want player feedback they could simply have said Morrowind (and Summerset) would not be on the PTS. The same thing happens with DLC and balance patches.

Instead I think it's the usual mix of factors:

• Feedback that's terrible and/or contradictory: if one person says a skill is OP and the damage needs to be reduced and another says it's weak and the damage should be increased they can't implement both - they have to pick one and 'ignore' the other...or take it as a sign that it's actually fine and 'ignore' both
• Feedback which they don't have time to implement, for example adding access to Red Mountain and those islands in the north, there was no way ZOS could build all that between the expansion hitting the PTS and being released, even if they wanted to
• Feedback which does not fit their vision - at least one person actually said they should pull the entire main story from Morrowind and re-make the story from TES 3 instead...even though it wouldn't fit the lore.
• Bug reports they can't/don't have time to act on. Some bugs take a long time to identify and fix, so if someone reports it (or the report is only picked up) the week before release there may not be time to do anything about it.

It doesn't bother me that Summerset is under an NDA, and it wouldn't even if it was for the whole thing and not just the story. It's pretty much standard practice in the industry. (Whether it's necessary is another thing, but it's certainly not uncommon.)

I am a bit disappointed that I didn't get an invite, but I'll get over it. I can play it when it's released.

@Danikat
Well, the thing I was mostly referring to was feedback specifically on the major sustain changes made with Morrowind, which is something I believe they asked for, and there was a lot of well-thought-out criticism that pointed out the problems with these major changes. And while the nerfs were scaled back slightly, it still vastly altered the way the game was played, which is what a lot of people were dreading. I think it's fine not to listen to certain feedback when it goes counter to the vision you have for your creation, but then don't ask for feedback, if you don't care about negative comments. When you ask for feedback, and say that you listen to your community, it just seems like a very disingenuous to completely ignore a major part of your audience and what they have to say. The game has more or less recovered since then, but a lot of builds still involve heavy attacks, which slow down the rotations and the touted, "fast-paced combat" really only applies to PvP now, with the exception of a few PvE builds.

Saturn wrote: »

Violynne wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

In their most recent news post to the site, ZOS confirmed that the PTS for Summerset will be a closed test accessed only by those invited, and with an NDA agreement, like they did with the Morrowind chapter last year.

Maybe my memory is off a bit, but wasn't this a limited timed event before they opened the PTS for everyone?

I don't mind a closed invite. ZoS seems to focus on getting all types of players for feedback, but the real "meat" comes when PTS is opened for all.

I recall Morrowind got several patches once it was opened up, after they "patched" glaring issues the closed version got.

Again, this is from memory, and it's been a year.

As I recall the NDA closed Morrowind PTS lasted until release. Which is why the embargo was lifted on release day and you had a thousand Morrowind videos made public on YouTube all at once.

Yeah, in this case, the primary embargo was just in step with press outlets. So, that's why there was mechanical information already coming out almost two weeks ago. So, in general, information is a lot more open. ZOS is more concerned about spoilers at this point, as in actually undermining the surprise at finding new things or following the story, than they are about balance changes.

Saturn wrote: »

GatheredMyst wrote: »

Thinking that an NDA, something that is used for a lot of beta tests in a lot of MMO's, is just to "hide the bad news", is extremely paranoid, IMO.

@GatheredMyst
That was literally what happened last year though. No negative information could get out, and thus people who pre-ordered it weren't fully informed about what they were getting. I know a lot of people who quit after Morrowind's release and were very upset about the nerf bomb being dropped on them out of nowhere. Granted that won't be an issue this time around, but it was the first thing that came to mind when I saw the words NDA (and then missed the "story-specific" part, lol). I don't think it's paranoia if it's based in prior experience from the same company. And let's be honest, ZOS isn't as transparent as they claim, and a lot of their shady business models still persist despite community outrage, so it's no surprise they care more about revenue streams than customer satisfaction, and thus will do what they can to prevent any potential losses. It's a smart business move, sure, but it doesn't exactly scream "transparency". So no, I don't believe it's paranoia.

Yeah. I wasn't there for last year's testing. (I mean, the PTS testing, sure, but not the closed round before that.) From what I've been told, this was a lot more open to feedback than that one was. I think I've already said, "anyone who's feeling some anxiety after last year is justified," but I think the team has actually taken a step back and is approaching this a bit differently.

To be fair, as I recall, a lot of the negative publicity last year was centered around complaints that the warden would be P2W, sight unseen. This year, we're getting some of that from the jewelry crafting paywall, but it's not the same thing. There was also a glitch last year, where some people who didn't have PC accounts were granted PTS access. This, unfortunately, overlapped with a subsection of the community who'd been crying the loudest about P2W on the public boards, and they immediately set about starting fires on the PTS boards, and spilling info back over onto the general boards, while painting everything in the worst possible light to support their agenda. It was a mess.

Also, to be fair, a lot of people left because of the nerfs, not because of how ZOS handled them. I mean, the handling was a contributing factor, but the issue was the nerfs themselves, and how that affected gameplay. The handling of PTS testing just aggravated that wound.

I could nore care less