What is your opinion of the Summerset chapter PTS being invite-only and under NDA again?

Saturn

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In observation the PTS is supposed to be there to help the developer uncover and address X, Y and Z

What's occurring instead is customers are using it to test builds, theory craft, find glitches, make guides, get better without penalty, etc. That isn't good for the game when its a new update, its better that those who will text, actually do the testing and provide feedback.


That and the amount of bugs that you encounter initially, id rather the more experienced and willing testing be invited.

NDA....that's something I could argue for or against but at this point I'll suggest its good.

People will invariably uncover bugs in the various parts of the game by doing such things, and the theorycrafters and build testers are a vital part of the endgame community. If you look at how many people actually spend their time testing the game for free it isn't many. ZOS already employs a QA team, who they pay, so in order to incentivise players who are paid nothing to "test" they are allowed to do these activities. It's sort of like a carrot on a stick, plus it's better to uncover the game-breaking bugs that occur in the normal way people play the game first, and then tackle obscure / less intrusive bugs later.

Ragnarock41

I am indifferent

I'm not buying till I see the balance changes either way. NDA or not. I wont buy into the hype. I'll patiently wait, see the actual thing, then decide on buying.

Saturn

eso_nya wrote: »

Closed pts was very good. Very constructive, few qq.

Should defo do it again. The cryhards already started "nerf this" posts after hearing the name of one of the new skills.

I disagree, I thought it was sad to see a lot of the constructive criticisms on the negative impact the sustain changes with Morrowind would have on the game be completely ignored. I know that the people mostly affected by this (the endgame community) is a minority in ESO, but it felt rather cruel to have our concerns just ignored. There were threads on the closed beta forum that had thousands of views and hundreds of comments with not a single reply from a dev or even a forum mod, and then tiny threads about lore-specific issues were immediately answered. Just seemed incredibly telling of the way ZOS treats some of their audience.

Saturn

Faulgor wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

I took part in the Morrowind test last year, and was pretty frustrated with the whole ordeal, since the feedback from the "closed beta" testers was mostly ignored, unless it was lore specific, and it seemed like closing off the test server and employing an NDA was more to avoid any negative information leaking out (and thereby killing the hypetrain), than it was to avoid story-spoilers being leaked, as ZOS claims.

Huh? They ignored all lore-based feedback we gave. Or else bonemold wouldn't be grey.

Well, they replied to most of the ones I saw, whereas bigger threads with high amounts of comments were without a single developer response.

zaria

I am indifferent

jedtb16_ESO wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

OutLaw_Nynx wrote: »

Wait, only the storyline is under NDA? @Flaminir, could you link that for me?

@OutLaw_Nynx

This NDA is specific to the Summerset main quest and its story, but you are free to stream and talk about anything you experience in Summerset with the exception of the Chapter's main story line beyond its first quest (titled “The Queen's Decree"). You can share any other quest lines (such as the Psijic Order) or side quests you find. The NDA will be lifted on May 1.

I misread as well, actually seems kind of weird to have such an oddly specific NDA, but I guess it's less restrictive than Morrowind's which is a good thing.

it's a relief to see that the nda is not so restrictive this time round.

with morrowind it was pia.... there was so much, how can i put it?, cattle *** and misinformation on the general forum but we could say nothing to put it right.

Problem with morrowind was the mega nerf who did major damage.
Summerset looks overall good with an few exceptions like my gold NMG weapons.

Having an quest NDA to avoid spoilers does not matter much.
We all know the trials guilds will buy it and do an +10 minute clear. Main factor is more about download speed

starkerealm

I think it is a good idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

Flaminir wrote: »

Well its not anything to do with 'Stopping negative info getting out'.... the only thing thats under NDA is the storyline.... which is clearly to avoid spoilers!

So people can talk about anything else they wish... positive or negative.

So yeah... its a good thing. I want to test the new systems, but I don't want the storyline spoiled until I get to play it on live.

Yeah, that's basically it. There's a little more encompassed under it, but most of that is still, like you said, spoilers.

To be fair, I can certainly understand that the Morrowind NDA left people a little gunshy. I know that we had some good conversations with the devs on a wide variety of subjects, and we'll see what suggestions they take in the coming year.

With the caveat that this was my first time out there, I'd like to think that a few of those conversations will lead to real improvements.

MasterSpatula

I am indifferent

Basically everyone got invited last year. I barely have time for the live game these days, anyway.

NyassaV

I am indifferent

If they want to ignore us they will ignore us. An NDA won't change too much

Anne_Firehawk

Everyone and their dog got invited last year so who the hell cares?

MTijhuis

I think it is a bad idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

I wasn't around last year. I don't mind a NDA. But I do mind a closed beta.

In my opinion every that is interested should be able to participate. That way you have a big pool of players that find different aspects of the game important. More content gets covered and more bugs get found.

phileunderx2

OK I got an invite last year for my ps4 account and wasn't able to use it as zos wouldn't let me transfer the invite to my pc account. So am I going to have to try to jump through all of the zos customer service bs again and be denied yet again. I hope not.

Marginis

I think it is a good idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

So as far as this affects me - and just me - I don't have the urgent need to play this on the PTS, as it wouldn't count to my progression, and would only satisfy the need for immediate gratification (which I lack because I am going to enjoy taking my time and playing this for the first time on xbox, my preferred system). If I get an invite, I will likely check things out, because I like testing stuff and it might increase my hype a bit for when I play the full release. I might also be able to plan out my jewelry crafting progression, but it doesn't seem like that will be terribly difficult as is. But as to this being a closed test and under NDAs? I'm actually kind of glad, so that there won't be a million spoilers to try and navigate around. I also think that because it's a closed test, it should alleviate any concerns from people who cannot play on the PTS who would feel the need to if it were open. Think about if ZOS gave out a reward for playing early, like they did with the monkey for playing the original beta? If you weren't able to get on PTS then, you'd feel bad for missing out. With a closed test however, ZOS wouldn't implement any such reward - like they gave the beta monkey out but they didn't have a reward for playing the alpha, which was closed.

As far as this affects other people? I think the generalities should apply, so I feel like there shouldn't be any huge downside to this to others, but I can respect that other people are different and might not share, let's say, my same patience, or my dislike of spoilers.

MeltyLotus

I am indifferent

Apache_Kid wrote: »

I'm still trying to get over the fact that PC even gets a PTS while us console users always get a patch that was tested by infinitely less people, thus resulting in us getting a patch filled with the bugs missed on PC and brand new ones introduced for consoles.

Hate to say it but that's what you get for playing a PC game on a console.

SugaComa

I think it is a good idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

Im all for it ... But it should also be on console

Violynne

Saturn wrote: »

In their most recent news post to the site, ZOS confirmed that the PTS for Summerset will be a closed test accessed only by those invited, and with an NDA agreement, like they did with the Morrowind chapter last year.

Maybe my memory is off a bit, but wasn't this a limited timed event before they opened the PTS for everyone?

I don't mind a closed invite. ZoS seems to focus on getting all types of players for feedback, but the real "meat" comes when PTS is opened for all.

I recall Morrowind got several patches once it was opened up, after they "patched" glaring issues the closed version got.

Again, this is from memory, and it's been a year.

Waffennacht

I think it is a bad idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

Boo

Esha76

I am indifferent

I try to be as useful to ZOS as possible when testing these things. I follow Gina's guidelines and provide feedback on what they are looking for. I'll report any additional bugs that I come across. Though I never felt my feedback was of much use. I am far from any kind of elite gamer, I know next to nothing about the numbers behind the pretty graphics and animations. I was shocked I got an invite 1st round to Morrowind, and to early closed beta of the game itself. Guess I am useful to them in testing after all, if nothing more than just another body on stress tests.

KRBMMO

I think it is a good idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

There are a few big problems that are simply avoided with NDA invite only.
- You don't have "the sky is falling everything is ruined" people getting everyone upset before the thing is even properly tested and adjusted. OK, people can break the NDA but only once.
- You don't have anonymous accounts going in and trolling everyone - or at least it happens a bit less often. You will still get trolls like in Battlegrounds, for example - but at least you know who it is and so it's done less often that if someone could just make multiple anon accounts.
- Of course you obviously have fewer spoilers being published.

I guess the only drawback really from ZoS' viewpoint is that you don't get any noobs testing, which is their primary target market.

I actually don't like testing a game that I want to play. I want it to be in its finished, polished state when I play it. If I get paid in some kind of in-game reward that would be different but there are enough problems in the "finished game" that frustrate me. Why would I want to play a game that has even more problems, lol.

The way I like to use PTS is just to test out some random wild builds that usually don't work - but at least I didn't spend in-game gold to respec, lol. But I don't need to be in on the "super secret exclusive NDA" PTS.

GatheredMyst

I think it is a good idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

Thinking that an NDA, something that is used for a lot of beta tests in a lot of MMO's, is just to "hide the bad news", is extremely paranoid, IMO.

rumple9

I think it is a bad idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

I wont buy it unless I get to beta test it first

Seraphayel

I think it is a bad idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

Oh man, the NDA won't overcome reality where 1/3 of Summerset isn't accessible due to ruins or mountains...

And I am pretty excited to see what's the Summerset version of Morrowind's sustain nerf.

Vanthras79

I think it is a good idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

Because HYPE!

Doctordarkspawn

I think it is a bad idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

If people dont want spoilers they dont go far into the content. Like we didn't when Orsinium was released.

What it's currently giving is people a leg up on figuring out the class changes and builds and such.

Sorry, but I gotta vote nay.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I am indifferent

Saturn wrote: »

I took part in the Morrowind test last year, and was pretty frustrated with the whole ordeal, since the feedback from the "closed beta" testers was mostly ignored

But how is this different from normal PTS runs? The bit about avoiding killing the hypetrain is probably accurate though.

Faulgor wrote: »

Saturn wrote: »

I took part in the Morrowind test last year, and was pretty frustrated with the whole ordeal, since the feedback from the "closed beta" testers was mostly ignored, unless it was lore specific, and it seemed like closing off the test server and employing an NDA was more to avoid any negative information leaking out (and thereby killing the hypetrain), than it was to avoid story-spoilers being leaked, as ZOS claims.

Huh? They ignored all lore-based feedback we gave. Or else bonemold wouldn't be grey.

The Indoril Flags were partially changed, but:
1.) It took (IIRC) a solid month of @Enodoc 'banging the drum' as I believe the Loremaster put it
2.) It was a relatively simple, minor change from a development standpoint - swap out a few textures
3.) Even then it was only done partially, as I /bugged that wolfhead appearing on a tomb maybe a month ago

Joy_Division

I think it is a good idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

Saturn wrote: »

This year the NDA is only story-specific (as someone corrected me on), so that does change things a bit.

That's the right way to go about it I think.

Kingslayer513

I think it is a bad idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

What's the criteria for being invited? Unfortunately, I wasn't around during morrowind PTS so I don't get automatic access, but I would love to test and provide feedback this time around. I'd be pretty disappointed if I don't get an invite...

Others have indicated that practically everyone got an invite last time, but if that's the case then I don't understand the need for a closed invite PTS in the first place. I assume that most of the ESO playerbase doesn't use the PTS and it's really only players from the forums anyways.

Danikat

I am indifferent

I don't think most of the Morrowind feedback was ignored because it was done under NDA. If they didn't want player feedback they could simply have said Morrowind (and Summerset) would not be on the PTS. The same thing happens with DLC and balance patches.

Instead I think it's the usual mix of factors:

• Feedback that's terrible and/or contradictory: if one person says a skill is OP and the damage needs to be reduced and another says it's weak and the damage should be increased they can't implement both - they have to pick one and 'ignore' the other...or take it as a sign that it's actually fine and 'ignore' both
• Feedback which they don't have time to implement, for example adding access to Red Mountain and those islands in the north, there was no way ZOS could build all that between the expansion hitting the PTS and being released, even if they wanted to
• Feedback which does not fit their vision - at least one person actually said they should pull the entire main story from Morrowind and re-make the story from TES 3 instead...even though it wouldn't fit the lore.
• Bug reports they can't/don't have time to act on. Some bugs take a long time to identify and fix, so if someone reports it (or the report is only picked up) the week before release there may not be time to do anything about it.

It doesn't bother me that Summerset is under an NDA, and it wouldn't even if it was for the whole thing and not just the story. It's pretty much standard practice in the industry. (Whether it's necessary is another thing, but it's certainly not uncommon.)

I am a bit disappointed that I didn't get an invite, but I'll get over it. I can play it when it's released.

Kodrac

Didn't everyone get into lat year's? I did but I never downloaded it. Ain't nobody got time for that.

tuwtle

I think it is a good idea that it is a closed test with an NDA

I played morrowind in PTS then when I bought it much later I was much less engaged with it because ... I had already done it all before. I normally don't mind spoilers. Actually I should have chosen indifferent because it is easy enough to avoid, oh well.

Raraaku

I am indifferent

I'm indifferent, I see both sides to it. Outside of finding and fixing bugs, I imagine that a big focus will be thoroughly testing all the balance changes as well as large scale testing of the Psijic Order skill line and jewelry crafting and how everything meshes across a vast range of different builds/sets/etc.