I'm sick of these nerf threads. Go away.
Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
Here is the official word from ZOS regarding NBs:
https://twitch.tv/videos/247754193?t=2h46m26s
(see video at 2 hrs. 26 min. 28 seconds)
Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.
Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.
Some would mention sorcs and shieldbreaker. Of course, that's not the kind of thing you mention in polite conversation, so I wouldn't dream of mentioning it.
I have no problem with stamblades/cloak. I have the tools to deal with them. I tend to have bigger problems with anything that reflects (looking at you DK's).. But its all down to build, and most builds should have a weakness (assuming the also have a strength).
Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
Actually they're right so there isn't much I can say. If you're looking to get a 1-0 vs. me in forums debates there it is.The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
I'm camping here till we see Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer
That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer
That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer
That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.
Then finally game balance and no more complaints threads.DRAGON_KILLER_HUNTER wrote: »Might aswell join them until everyone just plays a stamblade.
Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Short answer is DKs likely won't be seeing a ton of changes before we go live; this class is still quite powerful (as it should be being a tank), even after some of the adjustments we've made to other classes and abilities.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer
That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.
Why should people break their build being forced to use special abilities to counter a single class ?
You don't need to sacrifise your build for countering damage shields, block or dodge. You can choose to specialize into coutering one of those, but you are not forced to use it for having the kill.
NB : what about detect poisons guys ? Have u try it ?
Serious question @Seraphayel
What steps have you taken to adjust your build to deal with them?
The game offers plenty of counter play to a Nightblade if you're willing to adjust you build or use alternative consumables.
Most of the time when these threads come up the people complaining are upset their build doesn't work vs a Nightblade but are unwilling to actively work on countering one.
Additionally are you doing pre-made or PUG, if you're a pre-made are you watching each others backs or sharing out skills to counter them. Note if you have your own Nightblade you can also get revealing mark in there to mess with enemy Nightblades.
The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
The problem is however that NB counterskills (outside of mark which is stupid in itself) are not good enough and as a result make you too vulnerable against other targets to warrant a permanent slot.
The problem is not that NBs are too strong - their intended counters just aren´t used bc they´re useless against everything else and you can´t afford to slot them.
Some would mention sorcs and shieldbreaker. Of course, that's not the kind of thing you mention in polite conversation, so I wouldn't dream of mentioning it.
I have no problem with stamblades/cloak. I have the tools to deal with them. I tend to have bigger problems with anything that reflects (looking at you DK's).. But its all down to build, and most builds should have a weakness (assuming the also have a strength).
You can still fight and kill a sorc without shieldbreaker without being in any form disadvantaged.
Shieldbreaker fits the same bill as mark - hardcounter = bad.
Reflect against a pure projectile builds is the same - hardcounter = bad.
Ragnarock41 wrote: »The problem with this approach is: Which other class requires mandatory counterplay measures that are also single purpose and make your build weaker against any target that is not the intended target of the counter?
The answer is none.
I'm camping here till we see @Turelus come up with a response to this. I'm sure he'll come up with some funny statement and completely avoid giving an actual answer
That said I personally think NBs are generally fine as it. If there's anything I would change is probably add some counter-play against Cloak into existing skills of other classes. So you don't have to slot useless skills like Revealing Flare but have some innate ability to deal with invis to a certain level. Might even need to buff Cloak in that case by giving it some benefit that works even if you get pulled out of Cloak, like Snare Purge for example.
Camo hunter/evil hunter could use a massive buff to the actual use of it too. Something like : ''return %50 of cost when you successfully detect a stealthed enemy with it'', would be a good start, as this ability has insane stamina cost.
Why should people break their build being forced to use special abilities to counter a single class ?
You don't need to sacrifise your build for countering damage shields, block or dodge. You can choose to specialize into coutering one of those, but you are not forced to use it for having the kill.
NB : what about detect poisons guys ? Have u try it ?
They let cloak become so overpowered. They couldn't fix anything, so a non functional ability appears weak.
Let's look shall we: on top of the base invisibility which allows great escape.
You become effectively immune to single target abilities. Nothing new can be cast on you. Anything en route to you disappears, even if they were half in you, but for some reason snipes can follow me round corners. The exception is precast on target burst like potl or curse.
You fully negate dot damage whilst in it. A lousy fix to the breaking problem.
It gives you guaranteed critical, if it works.
This unlike other abilities has no increasing cost over time, no regeneration supression, no heal limitation, no limit on number of attacks cloaked, and no scaling of stats. As such it is the best defense in game by a long shot.
But what about the counters? The counters are awful. Aoe would be OK if I could still damage the NB otherwise, but as a reveal, I don't know where the NB is, so they have the advantage, I may have to cast twice. It's melee range or one area, and expensive.
Detect pots are a sacrifice of potion I have to use that are bad against other defenses, and they were nerfed too. 30s downtime, limited range. Not to mention force misses even when revealed.
The only good counter is mark. And that is on an NB, and it is admittedly quite OP.
Unless you have a Zerg to stomach the sacrifices, and swarm the area in reveals and aoes. The counters are in favor of the NB.
The latter two counters should be per person only, so Zerg get less from it. Only Aoe damage should reveal the NB, so it works better as invisibility. But dots should still hit, and any damage en route to target already should hit.
If you thought wings was so OP, cloak is like that x2.