A friend left a garbage Steam review and quit because "Summerset is P2W".

drkfrontiers · April 2018

your friend is a noob.. drop him.

abigfishy · April 2018

This game did have a bad gear grind but now that you can transmute traits I would suggest that this has the least brutal gear grind of any MMO I can think of especially for alts. Perhaps the one exception is gold jewelery but I am always happy with purple anyway.

PS: If you think this game is P2W go and play Archage or STO and then see what P2W is really like.

shauny.gibbsb16_ESO · April 2018

I often think if the guys that claim p2w to everything played something like Archeage and Black Desert Online they'd have a heart attack, there's worse games than them out there too.

The only gripe I have is the Transmuting side of things, but that's p2convenience in my book if you can still get what you need from the Guild stores or in game content. If there are rings that can't be gotten at all if you don't have Summerset then I'd have to admit that falls under the p2w title.

eso_nya · April 2018

If u consider a game p2w, dropping it for something else is the only thing u can do about it.

Its also nice not to rant at your friends for an hour.

MrWesleyPipes · April 2018

can i have his stuff?

themaddaedra · April 2018

Game is not pay to win, but i also feel that it's going that way. And it's not because you can't craft jewellery without Summerset chapter, you can buy jewellery anyways, but it's because of how trait researching is coming with this chapter. You can't research more than one trait at a time (on other craftings you can go up to 3) and even if you use research scrolls via vouchers, they have cooldown(20 big hours).

But if you use research scrolls via crown store, they don't have a cooldown. This is where people with crowns can go way far from those who don't.

And when ZoS says they introduced this whole system to make an even gamefield, i would doubt this as long as they don't put the same cooldown on crown scrolls as well.

Scorpiodisc · April 2018

Phage wrote: »

Also said jumping is crap and the gear grind is worst of any MMO, among other ridiculous things in about half an hours rant to me. He played nearly 1k hours.

Not sure we can be friends anymore.

How's everyone elses week going so far?

He sounds like a "bad". Probably all for the best. Best of luck to him.

Aurielle · April 2018

LMAO. ESO’s gear grind is the worst of any MMORPG? Guessing he never played LOTRO, where you have to grind up your weapon levels (with help from the cash store, cause there’s no way you’re doing that on your own), and grind for essences to slot into your armour, because designing sets with base stats is too complicated for the devs?

jcm2606 · April 2018

MajBludd wrote: »

It's P2W because they don't want to pay for it? What exactly do you not have access too, other than physically crafting jewelry?

If you save $1 a day til Summerset comes out you can buy it.

Transmuting bind-on-pickup jewelry.

Any of the new traits outside of crafted sets.

A way to skip potentially long and arduous grinds.

It definitely isn't fully P2W, but it is certainly pointing in the direction of P2W, as it gives players with the chapter some distinct advantages over those without. In my opinion, the way Zenimax should treat jewelry crafting is the same they treated transmutation. In-world jewelry stations require the chapter to interact with, but players with the chapter can choose to purchase a furnishing station with writ vouchers, which is open to all players, regardless of whether they have the chapter or not. That way it still incentivises players to purchase the chapter, to be able to craft their own set pieces, but it doesn't alienate those without the chapter nearly as much as it does currently, if at all.

Not sure why Zenimax didn't go with this in the first place, as in my opinion they nailed transmutation with this system.

efduncanub17_ESO · April 2018

how is the gear grind hard? now it is soooo easy with transmute it use to be harder...you want insane grind go play The Secret world....Sommerset is not P2W...play to win is buying items that others cant earn in game that allow you an advantage...New features in expacs is standard in mmos...The P2W arguments all seem to be from people who are not supporting the game and want more free things...

jcm2606 · April 2018

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

how is the gear grind hard? now it is soooo easy with transmute it use to be harder...you want insane grind go play The Secret world....Sommerset is not P2W...play to win is buying items that others cant earn in game that allow you an advantage...New features in expacs is standard in mmos...The P2W arguments all seem to be from people who are not supporting the game and want more free things...

Pay to win is any sort of distinct advantage that one player has over another, simply because the player with the advantage(s) shelled out more money than the other player. This can extent to items, boosters, buffs, overpowered classes, overpowered skill lines, to even crafting lines.

While I don't think the gating of jewelry crafting behind Summerset is fully P2W, it does give those with the chapter some clear advantages over those without, which I outlined above.

ak_pvp · April 2018

ESOs gear grind is nothing. Absolutely nothing. You can do normal trials easily, and get gear crafted for you. The grindiest part is research. Transmute exists, upgrading is easy, drops are per person, tradable, and guaranteed. Just look to BDO for endless gear and character grind its awful.

And no. ESO isn't P2W. I think paywalling balance related "content." to force buys is skeevy, but its not P2W, nothing win worthy you can buy separate, and chapters at least have other content, and often come with base game.Its natural progression, and you need nothing extra to be competitive. Sets are a 1/2% stats either way, and some like shackle, mechacc you can buy of guildies.

I will say the game is erring towards hypermonetization though. Anything quickly monetary is massively prioritized and pumped out like mad, whereas balance and bugfixed you are lucky to get even quarterly. There are bugs and lag that still exist from launch.

DieAlteHexe · April 2018

I just smile every time I see "P2W". How does someone "win" in an MMO? Sure as you get to the pinnacle of content (not easily done usually) along comes an expansion and off we go again, still not having won.

Violynne · April 2018

Phage wrote: »

Also said jumping is crap and the gear grind is worst of any MMO, among other ridiculous things in about half an hours rant to me. He played nearly 1k hours.

Oh, thank the stars! Another whiner gone from the forums! Tell your friend "Thank you" for leaving the game!

Now, as for my day, better after reading your post.

efduncanub17_ESO · April 2018

jcm2606 wrote: »

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

how is the gear grind hard? now it is soooo easy with transmute it use to be harder...you want insane grind go play The Secret world....Sommerset is not P2W...play to win is buying items that others cant earn in game that allow you an advantage...New features in expacs is standard in mmos...The P2W arguments all seem to be from people who are not supporting the game and want more free things...

Pay to win is any sort of distinct advantage that one player has over another, simply because the player with the advantage(s) shelled out more money than the other player. This can extent to items, boosters, buffs, overpowered classes, overpowered skill lines, to even crafting lines.

While I don't think the gating of jewelry crafting behind Summerset is fully P2W, it does give those with the chapter some clear advantages over those without, which I outlined above.

Its normal MMO practice...has been for decades...this is why I wish we didn't have solid level cap and the game was still sub model

Smasherx74 · April 2018

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Your friend is garbage jumping to conclusions.

I've put in over 1k hours, and I agree with him. The game is P2W in the sense of having the most optimal build. I don't know what god awful things they have planned for summerset, but I suppose I'll see.

The grinding is very stupid, I never have been able to stick with ESO for more than a few months because of how lousy the achievement factor feels in this game. Not to mention cyrodil is essentially unplayable for me outside of running zergs. It's not like I'll ever be able to 1vX or 1v1 with many people around me because of the lag. What's amazing is I actually went from a laptop to a desktop build only to find out since I had a FX series cpu chip cyrodil was still broken for me. 3-4 years later cyrodil still sucks and is not even worth going to. I'm a competitive person especially when it comes to video games, so I avoid that *** by all means. Maybe if this games main PVP wasn't so literally bad then I'd have stuck around more consistently instead of coming and going over the years.

jcm2606 · April 2018

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

jcm2606 wrote: »

efduncanub17_ESO wrote: »

how is the gear grind hard? now it is soooo easy with transmute it use to be harder...you want insane grind go play The Secret world....Sommerset is not P2W...play to win is buying items that others cant earn in game that allow you an advantage...New features in expacs is standard in mmos...The P2W arguments all seem to be from people who are not supporting the game and want more free things...

Pay to win is any sort of distinct advantage that one player has over another, simply because the player with the advantage(s) shelled out more money than the other player. This can extent to items, boosters, buffs, overpowered classes, overpowered skill lines, to even crafting lines.

While I don't think the gating of jewelry crafting behind Summerset is fully P2W, it does give those with the chapter some clear advantages over those without, which I outlined above.

Its normal MMO practice...has been for decades...this is why I wish we didn't have solid level cap and the game was still sub model

How does that justify it, though? Just because MMO's in the past have done something that can be considered to be P2W (or at least encroaching on P2W), that doesn't make it just that all MMO's do it.

Odnoc · April 2018

Sounds like they don’t know what P2W means.

DirkRavenclaw · April 2018

If it is a Gaming Friend only, forget about hom/her. If it is a Friend in RL, dont argue about a Game. Me, for one, i play since around 13 Months ESO, ESO is the very first MMO i ever played, Im 35 years old and have multiple mental Problems(Borderline, ADHD, panicattacks when leaving the House to name just a few). I have only around 200 Euro to life on, actually, now on April 12, i have to see how to eat the next 2 weeks, but i still sub and i still bought Summerset because, whatever the Problems, and yes, there are some, this Game is so diverse, there is so much to do, the community is so caring, if you get behind the zonechat after school is out and enter the World of Guilds. Bottomline, this Game gave me a way to communicate with the outside world, this game helps to keep me sane. There are Gaming Friends out there that have Cancer, or other ilnesses, ESO is Top and hopefully will be Top for Years to come. Peace and Love

Peekachu99 · April 2018

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Your friend is garbage jumping to conclusions.

I've put in over 1k hours, and I agree with him. The game is P2W in the sense of having the most optimal build. I don't know what god awful things they have planned for summerset, but I suppose I'll see.

The grinding is very stupid, I never have been able to stick with ESO for more than a few months because of how lousy the achievement factor feels in this game. Not to mention cyrodil is essentially unplayable for me outside of running zergs. It's not like I'll ever be able to 1vX or 1v1 with many people around me because of the lag. What's amazing is I actually went from a laptop to a desktop build only to find out since I had a FX series cpu chip cyrodil was still broken for me. 3-4 years later cyrodil still sucks and is not even worth going to. I'm a competitive person especially when it comes to video games, so I avoid that *** by all means. Maybe if this games main PVP wasn't so literally bad then I'd have stuck around more consistently instead of coming and going over the years.

If you’re going to say something like this, you need to provide specifics. What, specifically, do you have to pay for to be competitive? Keep in mind that absolute freeloaders get eventual access to ALL monster helms via the Golden Vendor. So it can’t be that.

I’m really boggled by how much this generation (I’m assuming you’re a millennial) expects for free, and by how blind they are to what is being offered.

Peekachu99 · April 2018

myskyrim26 wrote: »

P2W?! Advise him to play Neverwinter Online, so that he could see what IS a p2w.

“Johobeans has acquired the Sparklepony Dragon Plus!!!”

“Kittycarfarmer has aquired the Neclace of Cash Shop Worship!!!”

And so on, every 30s splashed across your screen.

Lapin_Logic · April 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Jewelry crafting is absolutely P2W.

We'll see how P2W it is when you buy your rings off a guild trader.

You can't buy transmuted gear.

Can't transmute if can't research.

Try again. P2W.

after summerset drops jewelry will drop in all traits (how else would anyone research them) and improvement items will drip from crafting nodes that have already been stated to be appearing "all over tamriel".

if you want 2 crafted sets then, as current non crafting characters do, you would ask a crafter friend or purchace the item. it is a convenience, nothing more.

also dungeon DLC items are locked behind a wall, no one says a dickiebird, the warden and imperial are DLC they are not pay to win, PVE warden is actually the worst DPS.

kyria.paganb16_ESO · April 2018

To be fair - jumping in this game really is lacking. :P

JaJaLuka · April 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

Phage wrote: »

usmcjdking wrote: »

Jewelry crafting is absolutely P2W.

We'll see how P2W it is when you buy your rings off a guild trader.

You can't buy transmuted gear.

Can't transmute if can't research.

Try again. P2W.

You know you can get those same scrolls that let you research quickly without having to pay any real life money right?

jedtb16_ESO · April 2018

a 'friend' you say?

hmmm......ok.

/walk away slowly...... whistling.

drkfrontiers · April 2018

Crafting is a quintessential part of the Elder Scrolls.

Crafting is about acquiring knowledge to make something great, and I like that it takes time.

Hell I wish it took long, and that progression was much more slower.

I hate the new millennial instant-gratification mindset.

Alcast · April 2018

Can I have his stuff? Geargrind is easier than in most other MMOs, same goes for leveling.
I guess your bud needs to l2MMO

Player angry so start throwing P2W arguments around

Alamakot · April 2018

usmcjdking wrote: »

Jewelry crafting is absolutely P2W.

I can say more:
having bought TESO is P2W (in comparison to some other games I've tried XD

Franieck · April 2018

I care less about the jewelery thing than I do about the WC drop rates. But then again, I think there are much more serious issues with ESO than these two.

Easily_Lost · April 2018

The first thing I thought of when I read the OP was why did it take him so long ( 1K hours, about 41 days of playtime ) to figure out the jumping is "crap" ( how else do you jump, lol ). He must want his gear handed to him with out any "work" what so ever to get better gear.