Thoughts on Stamplar/Magplar for PVP?

MrKushion · April 2018

Are Templars viable in PVP?

Checkmath · April 2018

Yes they are.
Magplars dont have mobility without being a vamp, but crazy heals and cleanse keeps them alive. Stamplar can have absurd damage. Both certainly viable, not the best but more than viable.

rileynotzb14_ESO · April 2018

Stamplar is very strong in PvP.

Mr_Nobody · April 2018

Stamplar is ok, works while killing nabs, however you wont kill anyone competent. Stamplar excels in group fights, up to 6 people with no other Stamplar around.

Magplar is the best at running in a ball group. Sucks at soloing, brings very little in small groups due to uberlow dps which you have to sacrifice so you dont die in 2 hits. Kind of OK, i am still wrecking people left and right but takes 1 day to complete kill Templars quest on PC-DC-NA, explains a lot.

Ashamray · April 2018

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Stamplar is ok, works while killing nabs, however you wont kill anyone competent. Stamplar excels in group fights, up to 6 people with no other Stamplar around.

Magplar is the best at running in a ball group. Sucks at soloing, brings very little in small groups due to uberlow dps which you have to sacrifice so you dont die in 2 hits. Kind of OK, i am still wrecking people left and right but takes 1 day to complete kill Templars quest on PC-DC-NA, explains a lot.

Magplar ok in very small group, because everyone like minor sorcery buff, purge synergy every 20 sec, shards to restore magicka \ stamina and heals, ofc.
Magplar is mediocre when we speak about damage, yes

Checkmath · April 2018

I play solo magplar and actually it is very much possible to 1vX with it. I dont have the best burst damage, but anything below really good players dies in 5-10 seconds in a good combo.

Koensol · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

I play solo magplar and actually it is very much possible to 1vX with it. I dont have the best burst damage, but anything below really good players dies in 5-10 seconds in a good combo.

Just because it is possible doesn't mean it isn't bad. Tbh, compared to most other classes Magplar sucks major donkey balls for solo play. *** sustain, *** mobility, *** defense and above all, *** ults. Damage can be good, but it is usually at a trade of for sustain and defence.

It is in quite a sad state and I hate to see it, because magplar is my favourite spec in pvp after stamnb. The only time I enjoy playing magplar ia in battlegrounds, where you don't get zerged by people you cannot escape from.

Checkmath · April 2018

Didnt say that they are good, OP or whatever. I just stated that also 1vX is possible. You are right, stamina templars sustain is lacklustering behind those of other stamina toons. For magplars i cant agree that their sustain is ***, but in the templars toolkit sadly nowhere is a regen buff, only a small cost reduction. In my first answer i already sad that mobility is only granted by vampire for magplars, stamplar at least may use FM or shuffle and dodgeroll with a bow. Defense isnt good, all we got is blocking actually. Since we dont have real hots, we are stuck in blockcasting breath of life when pressured. For the ultimates, the healing ultimate is crucial for group play and the empowering sweep is decent. Nova will see some pvp changes soon, but so far only is seen in rare occasions of pve. But for solo play there are better ultis like bat swarm and shield ultimate, which provide better defense and dawnbreaker or meteor are bettet offensive ultimates. Empowering sweep is somewhere between.
Magplar can be good if played nicely, but the class actually suffered quite a bit.

GeorgeBlack · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

Didnt say that they are good, OP or whatever. I just stated that also 1vX is possible. You are right, stamina templars sustain is lacklustering behind those of other stamina toons. For magplars i cant agree that their sustain is ***, but in the templars toolkit sadly nowhere is a regen buff, only a small cost reduction. In my first answer i already sad that mobility is only granted by vampire for magplars, stamplar at least may use FM or shuffle and dodgeroll with a bow. Defense isnt good, all we got is blocking actually. Since we dont have real hots, we are stuck in blockcasting breath of life when pressured. For the ultimates, the healing ultimate is crucial for group play and the empowering sweep is decent. Nova will see some pvp changes soon, but so far only is seen in rare occasions of pve. But for solo play there are better ultis like bat swarm and shield ultimate, which provide better defense and dawnbreaker or meteor are bettet offensive ultimates. Empowering sweep is somewhere between.
Magplar can be good if played nicely, but the class actually suffered quite a bit.

Oh hi

Koensol · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

Didnt say that they are good, OP or whatever. I just stated that also 1vX is possible. You are right, stamina templars sustain is lacklustering behind those of other stamina toons. For magplars i cant agree that their sustain is ***, but in the templars toolkit sadly nowhere is a regen buff, only a small cost reduction. In my first answer i already sad that mobility is only granted by vampire for magplars, stamplar at least may use FM or shuffle and dodgeroll with a bow. Defense isnt good, all we got is blocking actually. Since we dont have real hots, we are stuck in blockcasting breath of life when pressured. For the ultimates, the healing ultimate is crucial for group play and the empowering sweep is decent. Nova will see some pvp changes soon, but so far only is seen in rare occasions of pve. But for solo play there are better ultis like bat swarm and shield ultimate, which provide better defense and dawnbreaker or meteor are bettet offensive ultimates. Empowering sweep is somewhere between.
Magplar can be good if played nicely, but the class actually suffered quite a bit.

Well I am not speaking for stamplar, I have no experience with that. But I wouldn't agree that magplar sustain is at an acceptable level. Especially when you also want to deal good damage and have good defense. I feel the class needs to sacrifice too much in order to be able to sustain well. For example, if you want your sustain tool, you need to sacrifice rune focus which gives amazing mitigation.

To work around this issue, I am currently running a very weird build experiment with a heavy armor build in Ulfnor's Favor and resto staff backbar, Spinner frontbar + 2 Skoria and tristat food and stacking in tenacity CP for even more heavy attack magicka return. The damage is really good because you can totally drop regen and put all enchants into damage and penetration. It is easy to burst people down, but it only works in group play where you can safely use at least 2 heavy attacks after one another. I absolutely hate sustaining with dw + snb so I am forced to try weird stuff like this to even enjoy my magplar when comparing my gameplay experience to stamblade or any other class for that matter.

I know you are a very good player and I believe you can make 1vx work, because I have played against you in duels and seen you beat many people. It is just that 1vx or any solo play in cyrodiil is so much more tedious and harder on a magplar than on any other class besides maybe magdk. Having to run vampire on a templar is something I just refuse to do. It makes literally zero sense and ZOS can go screw themself if they think this is an acceptable state of affairs.

Checkmath · April 2018

You are totally right, magplar has pretty much zero mobility and other important things you need for pvp. And its ridiculous, that we have to look for that and other buffs like major sorcery outside of our toolkit. But i think the sustain isnt bad, if its possible to sustain with something between 1.5-2k magregen. Other classes like sorcs and nightblades mostly run with more regen than that.

Brutusmax1mus · April 2018

Everything's pretty balanced and depends on the players skill more than anything. Both stamplar and magplar are extremely versatile with gear choices and play styles. Definitely viable, definitely fun.

NobleX35 · April 2018

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Stamplar is ok, works while killing nabs, however you wont kill anyone competent. Stamplar excels in group fights, up to 6 people with no other Stamplar around.

Magplar is the best at running in a ball group. Sucks at soloing, brings very little in small groups due to uberlow dps which you have to sacrifice so you dont die in 2 hits. Kind of OK, i am still wrecking people left and right but takes 1 day to complete kill Templars quest on PC-DC-NA, explains a lot.

Lol don’t know what you’re talking about...I kill skilled players on my stamplar all the time solo.

IV_Deity · April 2018

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Everything's pretty balanced and depends on the players skill more than anything. Both stamplar and magplar are extremely versatile with gear choices and play styles. Definitely viable, definitely fun.

Lol??? stamplar and magplar are limited in what they can do right now. Almost every stamplar must run bone pirate for sustain in pvp. I rarely ever see magic Templars running dps specs and are now just healers. Versatile? Ok buddy. It's the same song and tune for this entire class.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2018

Stamplars are personally one of my toughest counters. In the right hands, they are really strong. Unless healing is your thing, I would go stamplar over magplar. Also, any stam class with a good spammable is getting a big buff next patch, because they will be able to run 2h without needing to rely on wrecking blow and still go 5.2.2. Stamplars and Stamblades should be excited.

Brutusmax1mus · April 2018

IV_Deity wrote: »

Brutusmax1mus wrote: »

Everything's pretty balanced and depends on the players skill more than anything. Both stamplar and magplar are extremely versatile with gear choices and play styles. Definitely viable, definitely fun.

Lol??? stamplar and magplar are limited in what they can do right now. Almost every stamplar must run bone pirate for sustain in pvp. I rarely ever see magic Templars running dps specs and are now just healers. Versatile? Ok buddy. It's the same song and tune for this entire class.

Ok pal. I know plenty strong ps4 na templars doing multiple roles. For stamina classes, spec into tactician for off balance and watch your sustain needs disappear.

You rarely see Magtemps running dps set ups bc you're focused around zergs is my guess. I see plenty.

Checkmath · April 2018

Dps gear on a pvp magplar is only viable in s group or zerg. It works in a 1v1 too, but every outnumbered fight will finish you off very fast, when the enemies start to attack you at the same time. The most viable builds for magplars in pvp either include wizards, trasmutation, pirate skeleton or wear heavy armor. In a group or zerg you dont need the tankyness tough.

TheDoomsdayMonster · April 2018

Having a very strong Devouring Swarm evens the odds very fast on my Magicka Templar if I'm out numbered; I've had opponents whisper me that they had a 15 or 16k Devouring Swarm on their Death Recap and wanted to know how I got it hitting so hard...

1vX is alive and well on a Magicka Templar btw...

Now you might not be able to run out in the open and scream "come and get me" to all challengers, but as long you are careful about who, where, and when you fight, then you can have great success in open world PvP as a Magicka Templar...

Grampa_Smurf · April 2018

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Having a very strong Devouring Swarm evens the odds very fast on my Magicka Templar if I'm out numbered; I've had opponents whisper me that they had a 15 or 16k Devouring Swarm on their Death Recap and wanted to know how I got it hitting so hard...

1vX is alive and well on a Magicka Templar btw...

Now you might not be able to run out in the open and scream "come and get me" to all challengers, but as long you are careful about who, where, and when you fight, then you can have great success in open world PvP as a Magicka Templar...

How do you get it hitting so hard ?

TheDoomsdayMonster · April 2018

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Having a very strong Devouring Swarm evens the odds very fast on my Magicka Templar if I'm out numbered; I've had opponents whisper me that they had a 15 or 16k Devouring Swarm on their Death Recap and wanted to know how I got it hitting so hard...

1vX is alive and well on a Magicka Templar btw...

Now you might not be able to run out in the open and scream "come and get me" to all challengers, but as long you are careful about who, where, and when you fight, then you can have great success in open world PvP as a Magicka Templar...

How do you get it hitting so hard ?

Its in my sig...

Grampa_Smurf · April 2018

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

TheDoomsdayMonster wrote: »

Having a very strong Devouring Swarm evens the odds very fast on my Magicka Templar if I'm out numbered; I've had opponents whisper me that they had a 15 or 16k Devouring Swarm on their Death Recap and wanted to know how I got it hitting so hard...

1vX is alive and well on a Magicka Templar btw...

Now you might not be able to run out in the open and scream "come and get me" to all challengers, but as long you are careful about who, where, and when you fight, then you can have great success in open world PvP as a Magicka Templar...

How do you get it hitting so hard ?

Its in my sig...

Thank you

Brutusmax1mus · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

Dps gear on a pvp magplar is only viable in s group or zerg. It works in a 1v1 too, but every outnumbered fight will finish you off very fast, when the enemies start to attack you at the same time. The most viable builds for magplars in pvp either include wizards, trasmutation, pirate skeleton or wear heavy armor. In a group or zerg you dont need the tankyness tough.

Same for every class except blades with shade and good skill... if you're taking about the individual actually engaging and not just escaping and not fighting a fish.

Mr_Nobody · April 2018

Indeed you must have Pirate Skeleton if you decide to wear light armor (with no Fort Brass / Impreg). Pirate Skeleton itself will kill you a lot since its buggy af. But what else do you want...

Rattlecage with decent traits is a king of a 5pc on a templar also, many players have forgotten this but I generally can tank multiple players for hours and then burst them 1 by 1 out of nowhere. You do lose quite some damage if compared to the first setup I mentioned, but you get the ability to take a lot more hits.

Checkmath · April 2018

rattlecage is pretty outdated for magplars in my opinion. there are better heavy sets for magplars like rattlecage or crafted sets like shacklebreaker, innate axiom or even the older sets like kagrenacs hope. tanking multiplayers has more to do with the fact wearing heavy armor, the set is irrelevant for that.

Mr_Nobody · April 2018

I ran different setups on this one ~ Still viable... kind of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah30hSxNUX0[/yt]

Checkmath · April 2018

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

I ran different setups on this one ~ Still viable... kind of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ah30hSxNUX0[/yt]

funny to see that more than half of the players in your video still dont know, that eclypse is breakable....

CompM4s · April 2018

Both templars are good in pvp just as any class. Main benefit for magplar is the great heals that can make or break a close fight.

Mr_Nobody · April 2018

CompM4s wrote: »

Both templars are good in pvp just as any class. Main benefit for magplar is the great heals that can make or break a close fight.

Wrong. Other classes can maintain their damage mitigation while dealing damage and/or so they can deal damage right after. We barely can do so, which requires great knowledge and luck, honestly. You are not at full health after you swap bars, and you are not dealing damage while healing yourself. It all comes up to your opponent as of how good he can pressure you. Pressure kills templars.

Nelson_Rebel · April 2018

*Magplars- main spammable is a self heal while doing damage, also has the best burst heal ingame BoL. And can cleanse all dots fairly cheaply, their sustain is rather low though. Defense is exellent if using correct gear. Their weak point is sustained damage and mobility. Which are fair weak points to prevent OPness.

Conclusion- Very viable, and if used and geared correcltly are the Bane of open world groups and BG's. Effective duelers difficult to kill, but not the highest burst either.

*Stamplars- Have massive burst damage capacity, and if facing a bleed build, will kill anyone very quickly. Extremely deadly if not taken down. Survivability depends on the gear they choose to wear. Fortified brass is very popular among stamplars due to less mobility and makes them VERY tough to kill if they are using shuffle with this set while sacrificing very little damage. Their sustain is also generally lower, but depends on the players heavy attack usage.

Conclusion- Very deadly in any capacity, and are some of the most powerful duelers in the game. Highly Recommended

Checkmath · April 2018

@Nelson_Rebel
Do you play templar? Because half of what you stated is wrong. A small example:
„Defense is exellent if using correct gear“
You already stated it: there is no defense on a magplar, not even with gear.

„...most powerful duelers in the game.“ thats why there are so many stamplars around atm. Wait there arent. Stamplar has major issues and lack what others classes provide.

Nelson_Rebel · April 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

@Nelson_Rebel
Do you play templar? Because half of what you stated is wrong. A small example:
„Defense is exellent if using correct gear“
You already stated it: there is no defense on a magplar, not even with gear.

„...most powerful duelers in the game.“ thats why there are so many stamplars around atm. Wait there arent. Stamplar has major issues and lack what others classes provide.

I play both.

Magplars Templars defense is excellent, if you aren't just being squishy and not using the Rune, thats your fault if you just built for nothing but damage. Also light armor you have the option of Going with Hardened ward or harness if you are struggling. 1 BoL under a magic shield is enough for at least half your health bar even if you get defiled. Or you can just cleanse all the ***, BoL and reset the fight lol

I said Stamplars are SOME of the most powerful duellers. I did not say they are all the most powerful as that is obviously not true. You trying to word pick is very cute though. As if I really wouldn't notice? Please.

Anyway they are in fact some of the best in the game, find a bleed build stamplar using Power Of the Light, and even more deadly if they are backbarring Sword and shield for Reverb Bash to throw in a defile on there

It's probably one of the most potent duel setups in the game with gear that is actually for pvp. Most any combination of Fortified brass/bloodspawn with your preffered damage setup works great. 7th legion Jewelry and weapons is really good for this too. Easy to maintain defense and a *** of constant high damage because Bleeds are unmitigatable and used with the templars unique skills like cleanse being able to counter other defile and bleed builds. That alone is a very key advantage. Because no one can afford to cast Purge for 8 thousand magic in any fight. And that is with 6 light armor pieces on a magic sorc reducing the cost of all skills by 15%.

If you having trouble it's simply your fault if you aren't looking at your own setup.