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Sustain in summerset
JinMori
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Zos please consider giving us moee sustain, after the morrowind changes not only we lost a lot of sustain, way too much, but we also lost some class defining skills like repentance, spear shards etc, and pretty much everything got homogenized, and more boring, orbs and shards do the same thing, while once orbs were used for magicka sustain and spears were used for stamina.
Pretty much all sustain abilities have been given flat values, but there is one ray of hope, dk combustion passive got changed so everytime you proc poisoned or burning you restore 500 magicka or stamina, this is a very welcome change for me, but what about the other classes?
Please zos for the love of god reconsider some of the changes made in morrowind.
jewelry crafting etc is also very good
Pretty much all sustain abilities have been given flat values, but there is one ray of hope, dk combustion passive got changed so everytime you proc poisoned or burning you restore 500 magicka or stamina, this is a very welcome change for me, but what about the other classes?
Please zos for the love of god reconsider some of the changes made in morrowind.
jewelry crafting etc is also very good
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Jewelry crafting has a trait that improves the enchant on that piece of jewelry up to 60%, so your regen glyph gives 270 base regen or your cost reduction gives 325 cost reduction. That is a ton.
The only class that needs to have more sustain now that magdks are getting a buff is stamplars. Literally the only in class way they have to sustain goes away if you have tankplar or another stamplar or a healplar that doesn't know better, which happens more then it ought to.0 -
Ramber✭✭✭✭i cant beleive you just said only 1 class needs more sustain added back. my stam templar, nb, warden and sorc would all like a lil bit back from that huge slash we all took.2
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JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭i don't care if we got infused in jewelry, before we could sustain light attack thanks to synergy between classes. i am not gonna drop my damage for sustain not a chance in hell, it just feels bad.
I much preferred the pre morrowind sustain, and this change that was supposed to close the gap between the ceiling and the floor, made it even larger, because very coordinated groups can still somewhat sustain a light attack rotation, but most casuals are just ***.
And in any case why even bother closing the gap, bad players will not become good as soon as you try to make some changes to close the gap, if you wanna get good you gotta put effort into it, so just embrace the fact that some player will just be better, just embrace the reality of the situation, and instead try to make the gameplay more fun, heavy attacking is not fun, and i think most can agree with that.Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2018 4:08AM2 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭i cant beleive you just said only 1 class needs more sustain added back. my stam templar, nb, warden and sorc would all like a lil bit back from that huge slash we all took.
I can't believe you said warden needs help. They were released WITH Morrowind, when all sources of sustain were gutted. So there was no "before" for them.
And when was the last time you were kicked from a dungeon for using syphoning attacks? For using dark deal? For using ultimates to get resources back? For healing your team and getting resources back? Never. And I HAVE been kicked for using repentance. Get some perspective.3 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »i cant beleive you just said only 1 class needs more sustain added back. my stam templar, nb, warden and sorc would all like a lil bit back from that huge slash we all took.
I can't believe you said warden needs help. They were released WITH Morrowind, when all sources of sustain were gutted. So there was no "before" for them.
And when was the last time you were kicked from a dungeon for using syphoning attacks? For using dark deal? For using ultimates to get resources back? For healing your team and getting resources back? Never. And I HAVE been kicked for using repentance. Get some perspective.
It doesn't really matter, what matters is that sustain is too low, to the point where 99% of people will not be able to sustain a light attack rotation long enough, which is more fun then heavy attack, also, wardens do need help, they are the worst, the absolute worst dps pve class in the game right now.
There was a reason why morrowind patch notes were so highly disliked, and i think that most people would still prefer to get back some of that sustain.
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Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »i cant beleive you just said only 1 class needs more sustain added back. my stam templar, nb, warden and sorc would all like a lil bit back from that huge slash we all took.
I can't believe you said warden needs help. They were released WITH Morrowind, when all sources of sustain were gutted. So there was no "before" for them.
And when was the last time you were kicked from a dungeon for using syphoning attacks? For using dark deal? For using ultimates to get resources back? For healing your team and getting resources back? Never. And I HAVE been kicked for using repentance. Get some perspective.
It doesn't really matter, what matters is that sustain is too low, to the point where 99% of people will not be able to sustain a light attack rotation long enough, which is more fun then heavy attack, also, wardens do need help, they are the worst, the absolute worst dps pve class in the game right now.
There was a reason why morrowind patch notes were so highly disliked, and i think that most people would still prefer to get back some of that sustain.
No **** Sherlock.
It does matter, if I get booted from the dungeon, I can't ****ing play the game. You ever have that happen to you? It feels like total crap. Getting booted from the dungeon for using the only sustain tool you have in your toolkit.
Wardens bad dps has nothing to do with their sustain. It is purely skill problem. Namely that shalks are hard to use. And there dps is tied to an ulti that needs to be double barred. I have a bow/bow warden. I get around 25k dps with it, that is still better then 90% of the other dps I come across with using the dungeon finder.
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aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭NB tank need sustain tweaks if we are getting in to that whole conversation. Siphoning is not tank friendly and executioner is broken.
For example, warden get back around 400/s ish from skills that work whilst blocking. NB tanks (that block so cut out regen for the duration+2 secs) get 150/s ish. Unfortunately, their sustain is well suited to DPS role, and can add around 100 to that totaling 250/s ish, which is still not on par with warden but for them the 15% regen boost will make up some of that deficit.
The answer probably lies in the executioner passive for NB tanks, and basically fixing it. Even if it wasn't bugged, it still costs more resources than you get back, needs a mob to die, perfect timing, and loosing a skill slot to a damaging assassination ability. Atleast it doesn't need the killing blow anymore in addition, but that's where it's bugged - if you get the killing blow, you don't get resources... It's way too limited compared to basically anything else, it even makes repentance look good. The main issue around sustain for tanks is some classes get sustain whilst blocking, others don't. Or make siphoning cost the opposite resource, or remove the initial cost and reduce the final amount by the same. Minor changes, that would help.
To anyone with sustain issues, the answer is Argonian - unless changed with Summerset, they can dwarf any of the non-sorc class based sustain abilities anyway. Or Equilibrium (There really needs to be a stamina equivalent somewhere...)
Completely agree with Stamplars, they have a very rough ride, even compared to NB tank (who probably hold the second worst class/role combo for sustain) Shame as they used to hold probably the best. Was one of the reasons why they disappeared, their mega sustain made up for all other short comings.
Re Morrowind changes in general, were they needed? yes, but the class based changes were not. But 1 year on, everyone has adapted, and we are basically back exactly where we were before Morrowind, it's just now more difficult for low cp players, or those without gold gear, or the couple of class/role combos that were affected heavily.
Glad to see magDK getting love in the sustain department. Now i'd just like to see Stamplars & NB tanks getting reviewed, and commented on as they also hammered by having their main sources of stamina sustain removed.Edited by aeowulf on April 10, 2018 7:49AM1 -
IxSTALKERxI✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lol there is still plenty of sustain. If you don't have enough sustain, sacrifice damage for more sustain.
After update there will be an ability that restores your resources so you don't even need sustain, everyone will go full damage, run away and get their resources back and run in and fight again.
If you think sustain is bad now, you should of tried playing prior to 1.5.NA | PC | Aldmeri DominionLaser Eyes AR 26 Arcanist | Stalker V AR 41 Warden | I Stalker I AR 42 NB | Stalkersaurus AR 31 Templar | Stalker Ill AR 31 Sorc | Nigel the Great of BlackwaterFormer Emperor x11 campaign cyclesVenatus Officer | RIP RÁGE | YouTube Channel2 -
klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »i cant beleive you just said only 1 class needs more sustain added back. my stam templar, nb, warden and sorc would all like a lil bit back from that huge slash we all took.
I can't believe you said warden needs help. They were released WITH Morrowind, when all sources of sustain were gutted. So there was no "before" for them.
And when was the last time you were kicked from a dungeon for using syphoning attacks? For using dark deal? For using ultimates to get resources back? For healing your team and getting resources back? Never. And I HAVE been kicked for using repentance. Get some perspective.
It doesn't really matter, what matters is that sustain is too low, to the point where 99% of people will not be able to sustain a light attack rotation long enough, which is more fun then heavy attack, also, wardens do need help, they are the worst, the absolute worst dps pve class in the game right now.
There was a reason why morrowind patch notes were so highly disliked, and i think that most people would still prefer to get back some of that sustain.
No **** Sherlock.
It does matter, if I get booted from the dungeon, I can't ****ing play the game. You ever have that happen to you? It feels like total crap. Getting booted from the dungeon for using the only sustain tool you have in your toolkit.
Wardens bad dps has nothing to do with their sustain. It is purely skill problem. Namely that shalks are hard to use. And there dps is tied to an ulti that needs to be double barred. I have a bow/bow warden. I get around 25k dps with it, that is still better then 90% of the other dps I come across with using the dungeon finder.
Calm down. He meant this argument you two seem to be having doesn't matter. What does matter is getting some change to sustain. You, for some reason, want to make this personal.0 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »i cant beleive you just said only 1 class needs more sustain added back. my stam templar, nb, warden and sorc would all like a lil bit back from that huge slash we all took.
I can't believe you said warden needs help. They were released WITH Morrowind, when all sources of sustain were gutted. So there was no "before" for them.
And when was the last time you were kicked from a dungeon for using syphoning attacks? For using dark deal? For using ultimates to get resources back? For healing your team and getting resources back? Never. And I HAVE been kicked for using repentance. Get some perspective.
It doesn't really matter, what matters is that sustain is too low, to the point where 99% of people will not be able to sustain a light attack rotation long enough, which is more fun then heavy attack, also, wardens do need help, they are the worst, the absolute worst dps pve class in the game right now.
There was a reason why morrowind patch notes were so highly disliked, and i think that most people would still prefer to get back some of that sustain.
No **** Sherlock.
It does matter, if I get booted from the dungeon, I can't ****ing play the game. You ever have that happen to you? It feels like total crap. Getting booted from the dungeon for using the only sustain tool you have in your toolkit.
Wardens bad dps has nothing to do with their sustain. It is purely skill problem. Namely that shalks are hard to use. And there dps is tied to an ulti that needs to be double barred. I have a bow/bow warden. I get around 25k dps with it, that is still better then 90% of the other dps I come across with using the dungeon finder.
Calm down. He meant this argument you two seem to be having doesn't matter. What does matter is getting some change to sustain. You, for some reason, want to make this personal.
Please read this- https://www.quora.com/Why-does-saying-calm-down-make-an-angry-person-more-angry
Especially this-It is either telling them "Don't feel angry anymore" (which is impossible) or "I don't like or care how you feel."0 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭If you have issues with sustain in PvE as any class that isn´t a magDK or stamplar, you´re doing something wrong.0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭If you have issues with sustain in PvE as any class that isn´t a magDK or stamplar, you´re doing something wrong.
Why do people only concern themselves with DPS roles? You are missing:
Templar tank has basically the same issues as Stamplar.
NB tank has no tank friendly sustain skills. (ZoS saw this and instead BROKE executioner when they tried to make it tank-friendly)
Whilst they <can> be played as is, they need a ton of CP, a ton of experience playing that class/role combo, really specific gear sets and a racial choice of Argonian.1 -
Septimus_Magna✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭At least the massively popular sorcerer tanks got a 15% sustain, really useful..PC - EU (AD)Septimus Mezar - Altmer Sorcerer
Septimus Rulanir - Orsimer Templar
Septimus Desmoru - Khajiit Necromancer
Septimus Iroh - Dunmer Dragon Knight
Septimus Thragar - Dunmer Nightblade
Septimus Jah'zar - Khajiit Nightblade
Septimus Nerox - Redguard Warden
Septimus Ozurk - Orsimer Sorcerer1 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Sustain is not too low...
...if you build for sustain. Huh, almost like you have to make choices now. Weird.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub1 -
klowdy1✭✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Sustain is not too low...
...if you build for sustain. Huh, almost like you have to make choices now. Weird.
Exactly. I have a few gear setups for my stamplar. One built like pre morrowind builds, all damage, no sustain, and the other that focuses on resource management. If I'm the only stamplar in the group (including tank) I'll use the damage setup, and throw repentance on my back bar. If I have to compete over dead bodies, I use my sustain set. In longer fights, they are fairly close to each other in terms of dps.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Sustain is not too low...
...if you build for sustain. Huh, almost like you have to make choices now. Weird.
A very uninteresting way of sustaining, just use glyphs on jewelry, when before we had synergy between classes to do it.
As i said, i am not gonna drop my damage from some sustain when before you could sustain thanks to utility.
Let me ask you this, let's say that you had a million dollars, and then one day someone comes and just takes away half, for no reason, would you be happy with that? That;s pretty much what happened with sustain in this game, pve combat was very enjoyable, you could sustain thanks to the utility provided, and then poof, all gone, after 1 patch, they decided to pretty much half all sustain.
The fact is that the morrowind patch notes were massively unpopular, pretty much nobody likes them, and even now when you ask, some of the people say to you, well i adapted, dude, adapted doesn't mean that it's fun, you say that you have adapted when before it was better and now it's worse, like i used to live in this big house, but now i have adapted to live in this small house after i lost my money, etc....Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2018 2:25PM0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you have issues with sustain in PvE as any class that isn´t a magDK or stamplar, you´re doing something wrong.
Easy for you to say if you are in a very good group, sadly that's not the reality of the situation, most players are not in that situation.
Yes, i can sustain for some time in a good group, i can even get 40/50 k dps, but most groups are not like that, and sooner or later you will still run out of resources with light attack rotation.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »i cant beleive you just said only 1 class needs more sustain added back. my stam templar, nb, warden and sorc would all like a lil bit back from that huge slash we all took.
I can't believe you said warden needs help. They were released WITH Morrowind, when all sources of sustain were gutted. So there was no "before" for them.
And when was the last time you were kicked from a dungeon for using syphoning attacks? For using dark deal? For using ultimates to get resources back? For healing your team and getting resources back? Never. And I HAVE been kicked for using repentance. Get some perspective.
It doesn't really matter, what matters is that sustain is too low, to the point where 99% of people will not be able to sustain a light attack rotation long enough, which is more fun then heavy attack, also, wardens do need help, they are the worst, the absolute worst dps pve class in the game right now.
There was a reason why morrowind patch notes were so highly disliked, and i think that most people would still prefer to get back some of that sustain.
No **** Sherlock.
It does matter, if I get booted from the dungeon, I can't ****ing play the game. You ever have that happen to you? It feels like total crap. Getting booted from the dungeon for using the only sustain tool you have in your toolkit.
Wardens bad dps has nothing to do with their sustain. It is purely skill problem. Namely that shalks are hard to use. And there dps is tied to an ulti that needs to be double barred. I have a bow/bow warden. I get around 25k dps with it, that is still better then 90% of the other dps I come across with using the dungeon finder.
Calm down. He meant this argument you two seem to be having doesn't matter. What does matter is getting some change to sustain. You, for some reason, want to make this personal.
What i meant was, that even if he made a wording mistake, since before morrowind there were no wardens therefore there were no before for them, the point still stands that they are in dire need of help, in this case they need both sustain and dps output, warden is underperforming the most in pve.
With the other classes i will be satisfied with just a sustain increase for this patch, with warden, they need a bit more.Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2018 3:51PM0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Sustain is not too low...
...if you build for sustain. Huh, almost like you have to make choices now. Weird.
A very uninteresting way of sustaining, just use glyphs on jewelry, when before we had synergy between classes to do it.
As i said, i am not gonna drop my damage from some sustain when before you could sustain thanks to utility.
Let me ask you this, let's say that you had a million dollars, and then one day someone comes and just takes away half, for no reason, would you be happy with that? That;s pretty much what happened with sustain in this game, pve combat was very enjoyable, you could sustain thanks to the utility provided, and then poof, all gone, after 1 patch, they decided to pretty much half all sustain.
The fact is that the morrowind patch notes were massively unpopular, pretty much nobody likes them, and even now when you ask, some of the people say to you, well i adapted, dude, adapted doesn't mean that it's fun, you say that you have adapted when before it was better and now it's worse, like i used to live in this big house, but now i have adapted to live in this small house after i lost my money, etc....
Can you recall the reason for the sustain nerfs? Was it something like pve content becoming too easy, everybody just build for max damage without ever wasting a thought on building for a little bit of sustain plus pvp balance issues? Or was it more like "hurr durr, we see you like the game, we intentionally *** you over just because"?
I don't say these changes solved all issues or that we are back to really high parses. But then and there, sustain was far too easy. I can imagine that some people like easymode and not having to think about if they can sustain their rotation. And yes, all you have to do now is throwing in another heavy attack here and there and it lowers your dps, but then again, too high dps was part of the reason why MW came with these changes.
And please stop with the bad metaphors and the assumptions that "pretty much nobody likes them".0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Sustain is not too low...
...if you build for sustain. Huh, almost like you have to make choices now. Weird.
A very uninteresting way of sustaining, just use glyphs on jewelry, when before we had synergy between classes to do it.
As i said, i am not gonna drop my damage from some sustain when before you could sustain thanks to utility.
Let me ask you this, let's say that you had a million dollars, and then one day someone comes and just takes away half, for no reason, would you be happy with that? That;s pretty much what happened with sustain in this game, pve combat was very enjoyable, you could sustain thanks to the utility provided, and then poof, all gone, after 1 patch, they decided to pretty much half all sustain.
The fact is that the morrowind patch notes were massively unpopular, pretty much nobody likes them, and even now when you ask, some of the people say to you, well i adapted, dude, adapted doesn't mean that it's fun, you say that you have adapted when before it was better and now it's worse, like i used to live in this big house, but now i have adapted to live in this small house after i lost my money, etc....
Can you recall the reason for the sustain nerfs? Was it something like pve content becoming too easy, everybody just build for max damage without ever wasting a thought on building for a little bit of sustain plus pvp balance issues? Or was it more like "hurr durr, we see you like the game, we intentionally *** you over just because"?
I don't say these changes solved all issues or that we are back to really high parses. But then and there, sustain was far too easy. I can imagine that some people like easymode and not having to think about if they can sustain their rotation. And yes, all you have to do now is throwing in another heavy attack here and there and it lowers your dps, but then again, too high dps was part of the reason why MW came with these changes.
And please stop with the bad metaphors and the assumptions that "pretty much nobody likes them".
So easy that 90 % of people couldn't do it, dude you live in wonderland.
You took guild like hodor as a standard and applied it for the entire population.
You could not sustain if you didn't have a decent group with good syneries, so it wasn't braindead, i actually think that the heavy attacking is much more braindead then what we could do before, afterall you are just pressing the mouse button, much skills.... Not only that, but they took away diversity between classes and replaced it with homogenization, everything restores a flat value, spear shards and orbs are pretty much the same, repentance got gutted, etc....
Yes, most people did not like the changes.
If they really wanted to lower damage they could have just lowered the damage, why take away the fun part of having a fluid rotation, or they could have increased boss difficulty, there are many ways of increasing damage.
Also, the pvp issue could have been avoided if zos decided to separate the 2 systems, this was suggested by a lot of people, but zos has this ego that they don;t want to change the effect of skills for pvp and pve, making it much harder to balance, or should i say pretty much impossible, just because they don't want people to re adjust the skills we use in pvp and pve, which we do it anyway,. so who cares?
Bad metaphors? That's exactly what happened, we had something and that something got halved in morrowind, the raiding scene was increasing pre morrowind, and after the patch hit, all that progress was gone, this should tell you something, pretty much nobody was complaining about the sustain in pve, because most liked it.
Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2018 4:36PM1 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭
What i meant was, that even if he made a wording mistake, since before morrowind there were no wardens therefore there were no before for them, the point still stands that they are in dire need of help, in this case they need both sustain and dps output, warden is underperforming the most in pve.
With the other classes i will be satisfied with just a sustain increase for this patch, with warden, they need a bit more.
Wardens have pretty much the best/most useful sustain of any class, that's 400/s that works irrespective of blocking. You also need to be a LOT more specific, and say what flavour warden? tank/magden/stamden/healer etc. Either way round, you are going to find their sustain is WAY better than lets say specifically stamplar/tankplar.0 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
What i meant was, that even if he made a wording mistake, since before morrowind there were no wardens therefore there were no before for them, the point still stands that they are in dire need of help, in this case they need both sustain and dps output, warden is underperforming the most in pve.
With the other classes i will be satisfied with just a sustain increase for this patch, with warden, they need a bit more.
Wardens have pretty much the best/most useful sustain of any class, that's 400/s that works irrespective of blocking. You also need to be a LOT more specific, and say what flavour warden? tank/magden/stamden/healer etc. Either way round, you are going to find their sustain is WAY better than lets say specifically stamplar/tankplar.
Wardens have the betty, but i wouldn't call it great sustain, yes they have slightly more sustain then other classes, but their dps is still in the trash.
And i highly doubt it restores 400/s, the tooltip says 4 k over 27 seconds, that is not 400 a second, that is more like 150, which is not bad, but not great.Edited by JinMori on April 10, 2018 4:41PM0 -
aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Sustain is not too low...
...if you build for sustain. Huh, almost like you have to make choices now. Weird.
A very uninteresting way of sustaining, just use glyphs on jewelry, when before we had synergy between classes to do it.
As i said, i am not gonna drop my damage from some sustain when before you could sustain thanks to utility.
Let me ask you this, let's say that you had a million dollars, and then one day someone comes and just takes away half, for no reason, would you be happy with that? That;s pretty much what happened with sustain in this game, pve combat was very enjoyable, you could sustain thanks to the utility provided, and then poof, all gone, after 1 patch, they decided to pretty much half all sustain.
The fact is that the morrowind patch notes were massively unpopular, pretty much nobody likes them, and even now when you ask, some of the people say to you, well i adapted, dude, adapted doesn't mean that it's fun, you say that you have adapted when before it was better and now it's worse, like i used to live in this big house, but now i have adapted to live in this small house after i lost my money, etc....
Can you recall the reason for the sustain nerfs? Was it something like pve content becoming too easy, everybody just build for max damage without ever wasting a thought on building for a little bit of sustain plus pvp balance issues? Or was it more like "hurr durr, we see you like the game, we intentionally *** you over just because"?
I don't say these changes solved all issues or that we are back to really high parses. But then and there, sustain was far too easy. I can imagine that some people like easymode and not having to think about if they can sustain their rotation. And yes, all you have to do now is throwing in another heavy attack here and there and it lowers your dps, but then again, too high dps was part of the reason why MW came with these changes.
And please stop with the bad metaphors and the assumptions that "pretty much nobody likes them".
the sustain nerfs hurt newer players the most, and some very specific class/role combinations. Whatever they were meant to do it obviously didn't work out, as for the most part there is very little perceptible difference. Unless of course it was to "hurt newer players, and some very specific class/role combinations" - everyone adapted, the end-game min max dudes will of thought nothing of golding out a different set, or swapping round some CP. There have been some bad changes in this game, but Repentence takes the crown & Siphoning was not far behind - those two changes effectively removed class/role combinations from all but the most advanced players.1 -
Camb0Sl1ce✭✭✭I didn't like the morrowind sustain changes at all, I did adapt but its certainly not as fun as it used to be pre-morrowind. Some believe that pve players were becoming too powerful, so they made the sustain changes. I just don't believe in watering us down just to make older content relevant, as you level and gain more cp I believe you should feel stronger. With that said, I'm not a dev and they're going to do what they believe is the best thing in their eyes.1
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JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Sustain is not too low...
...if you build for sustain. Huh, almost like you have to make choices now. Weird.
A very uninteresting way of sustaining, just use glyphs on jewelry, when before we had synergy between classes to do it.
As i said, i am not gonna drop my damage from some sustain when before you could sustain thanks to utility.
Let me ask you this, let's say that you had a million dollars, and then one day someone comes and just takes away half, for no reason, would you be happy with that? That;s pretty much what happened with sustain in this game, pve combat was very enjoyable, you could sustain thanks to the utility provided, and then poof, all gone, after 1 patch, they decided to pretty much half all sustain.
The fact is that the morrowind patch notes were massively unpopular, pretty much nobody likes them, and even now when you ask, some of the people say to you, well i adapted, dude, adapted doesn't mean that it's fun, you say that you have adapted when before it was better and now it's worse, like i used to live in this big house, but now i have adapted to live in this small house after i lost my money, etc....
Can you recall the reason for the sustain nerfs? Was it something like pve content becoming too easy, everybody just build for max damage without ever wasting a thought on building for a little bit of sustain plus pvp balance issues? Or was it more like "hurr durr, we see you like the game, we intentionally *** you over just because"?
I don't say these changes solved all issues or that we are back to really high parses. But then and there, sustain was far too easy. I can imagine that some people like easymode and not having to think about if they can sustain their rotation. And yes, all you have to do now is throwing in another heavy attack here and there and it lowers your dps, but then again, too high dps was part of the reason why MW came with these changes.
And please stop with the bad metaphors and the assumptions that "pretty much nobody likes them".
the sustain nerfs hurt newer players the most, and some very specific class/role combinations. Whatever they were meant to do it obviously didn't work out, as for the most part there is very little perceptible difference. Unless of course it was to "hurt newer players, and some very specific class/role combinations" - everyone adapted, the end-game min max dudes will of thought nothing of golding out a different set, or swapping round some CP. There have been some bad changes in this game, but Repentence takes the crown & Siphoning was not far behind - those two changes effectively removed class/role combinations from all but the most advanced players.
Yes, exactly, this patch was supposed to lower the high end, but what it did was the exact opposite, as i said before i can still sustain a light attack rotation somewhat in good groups, but most groups are not like that, it's just like how blizzard decided to remove master loot, because method was doing split runs mythic, which basically mean, take 20 players with 1 class to siphon loot to main spec players, are we really gonna do stupid changes like that because of 2/3 % of the players?
Instead make a new difficulty, blizzard did that with m+ runs, why can't you zos? Is it because of money? Well, sooner or later you will have to make some investments to keep your playerbase, as cp increases, you will have to make a new difficulty anyway.
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Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »Jewelry crafting has a trait that improves the enchant on that piece of jewelry up to 60%, so your regen glyph gives 270 base regen or your cost reduction gives 325 cost reduction. That is a ton.
The only class that needs to have more sustain now that magdks are getting a buff is stamplars. Literally the only in class way they have to sustain goes away if you have tankplar or another stamplar or a healplar that doesn't know better, which happens more then it ought to.
And you drop like 1800 or so Max stat to do this, which is pretty balanced. IMO.
Sustain is perfectly fine, if you get used to the idea that you probably have to wear a sustain set now. You can’t get by with two damage sets like pre-Morrowind. That was just ridiculous.
There are a dozen different options to get more sustain, change your mundus, swap your food, change some jewelry enchants, change your CP, become a vampire, change your race, wear a better sustain set, slot a sustain skill (meditation, dark deal) or heavy attack ALOT more.
Edited by Minalan on April 10, 2018 4:52PM1 -
JinMori✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭And in any case there are many ways of bringing down dps, one is lowering the damage, why take away the fluidity of the rotation by lowering sustain, why take away the little niches specific to a class, and homogenize everything?
It's just stupid, there were so many ways to lower dps if they wanted, and in my opinion they opted for the worst option, by far.
In my opinion it would have been better to just decrease damage overall, or just make a new difficulty, call it epic, or legendary or something like that.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Again, I did not said that it solved all issues or that it was perfect. Yes, it sucks that it killed off same class/role combos, e.g. saptanks. Even if the execution was horrible, the overall the intention of the nerf was still justified. Being able to go 100% on damage shows that the nerf was needed. And just lowering the damage would accomplish balance issues as well. Look at PvP's unkilleable troll builds etc.
But I agree that they should have put more thought in the consequences and that adjusting pve difficulty by changing npc stats would be a good alternative to class nerfs, at least sometimes.
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aeowulf✭✭✭✭✭If they truly wanted to lower dps, they needed to reduce the damage things did. Sounds logical huh?
Choosing the 'hit sustain' method did not hurt the end game DPS for some - there are now 72k stam DK trial parses, before Morrowind 60k was max-ish. If anything it's made it a lot more 'elite' at the top end than ever before.
The only real travesty was they did not revisit Repentence, at all, ever. At least they tried to help NB tanks, but ended up breaking Executioner (and it's still not fixed?).
Really can't wait for Summerset PTS
Looks like some good changes for the most part. 1