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Stamina DK's need an Identity before Summerset is released
Kronuxx
✭✭✭✭
I don't know who the class representative is for Stamina DK's but I hope you a have strong voice. We stamina DK's need you now more than ever. The class balance changes recently mentioned pre-pts for Summerset are not only relatively minor for stamina dk's, they are clearly geared towards their magicka counterparts.
1) Combustion passive shouldn't be a proc chance based on a status effect. Status effects don't work on wards (magicka shields). In addition, status effects have the highest chance to proc with weapon enchants. This also translates to the fact, that the highest chance of proccing status effects (weapon enchants) do not affect argonian/bosmer and dunmer due to their inherit resistance to poison/fire resistance relatively speaking. In addition the combustion passive should be based on applying poison and fire damage and not dependent the status effect. That would make the passive much more useful, in addition the original damage amp of 50% of the combustion passive should be kept in addition to what zos is adding now. It should not be replaced with this new change.
2) Elder Dragon is still completely useless of a passive. 5% Health recovery is useless. I repeat, it is completely useless. Not only is it useless but it requires the condition of using a draconic ability, which limits build diversity especially for stamina dk's who already have a limited magicka pool (considering that all Draconic abilities are relatively high cost magicka abilities). 5% health recovery for each draconic ability is essentially 32.5 more health recovery every second if you are geared towards Troll King (TK provides 1500 recovery if health drops below 50%. 5% of 1500 is 75, but remember that's 75 health recovery over 2 secs.) So even geared towards high recovery builds it's completely useless of a passive ability. Let's not forget it's also affected by defile, which is part of the current meta in PvP and we all know it.
3) Granting us snare removal with no immunity means nothing. The average Stamina DK magicka pool is 12K. Reflective plate is an extremely high cost magicka ability. With no immunity and because snares are extremely common place, the snare will be applied almost immediately back again. This leaves stamina DK's to recast the ability only 3 times, and each time will be useless as the snare will be reapplied again. And because Stamina DK's have no other utility stamina morphs, with only two that apply dots (venomous claws and noxious breath) this leaves our other utility skills like volatile armor, igneous shields, fossilize extremely difficult to use and captialize on. Especially igneous or in this case the possibly new morph fragmented shields as both are extremely high cost magicka abilities.
I can see 3 things that would help give Stamina DK's both identity and balance.
1) Give the new reflective plate morph a small snare immunity. I'd say 2-3 sec is fine for now.
2) I'd change the Elder Dragon passive to something that you ZOS even promote on character selection screen when you claim DK's are master of arms. I'd do just that. Change it to something like "Master at Arms" or "Strength of the Dragon" or keep it as "Elder Dragon" but change the passive to give physical damage/fire damage bonus where one skill point gives 1% and 2-3% for the second skill point when equipping a draconic ability on the skill bar. This would force DK's to make interesting builds to incoporate their draconic abilities into their skill slots and it would put them on par with the Passive skill damage bonuses of Warden (Advanced Species)/Sorc (Energized)/Templar (Balanced Warrior and Piercing Spear)/Nightblade (Master Assassin) as all have passives that grant some form of damage bonus for both their stamina and magicka counterparts. Dragonknights are the only class that not only have a time limited weapon damage buff, but they are also the only class with a completely meaningless passive. You could save yourself the two skill points and it would have no bearing on your overall survivability or performance. I cannot see, for any good justifiable reason as to why the Elder Dragon Passive still exists.
3) Give stamina DK's another poison morph (or even something unique, that's different than just a poison whip. @Vaoh posted an amazing suggestion below). We only have two, both of which are dots, and both of which are easily cleansed or countered (when a NB goes cloak, a templar purges, a sorc who shield stacks, a warden will out-heal unless defiled). The stamina morph can occupy the place of the Molten Whip morph. I don't know of one DK, whether it be Magicka or Stamina, worth their grain of salt who even uses this completely and utterly useless morph. If you are concerned about PvE dps, just do what you have done to Stamina Wardens. Give the poison spammable morph a slight delay. Make it akin to subterranean assault (perhaps not as clunky or slow). At least this will allow for more skill required to implement in rotation with PvE dps and even in PvP.
I implore you guys to please re-evaluate these 3 scenarios I have talked about. And if for any god-forsaken completely biased reason @ZOS_Wrobel , if you think that somehow your justification of what you think Dragonknights should be and shouldn't be is the correct way of thinking, then at the very least, change that god awful waste of 2 skill-points passive Elder Dragon.
4) P.S. The World In Ruin passive which grants any of the DK's fire and poison Area of Effect abilities an additional 6% is another completely useless passive for Stamina Dragonknights. Our only poison AOE is Noxious Breath. Noxious Breath has several issues. It's hit box is extremely wonky, thus your ability to have it land on a player becomes a guessing game. Did it land? Did it not? I have to depend on my opponents debuff bars to see if it lands, which is essentially about 50% of the time. And it doesn't miss because the opponent dodges, or moves out of the way. No, it's just that the hit box mechanics for this ability is that bad. The other issue is that its dot is *** poor in terms of damage output, and the Major Fracture debuff is much better utilized on something like Ransack, which is just as cheap, deals more burst damage, and is much easier to land. So in essence, World In Ruin, is another useless passive for Stamina DK. We only have one AOE poison which is difficult to land due to bad hit box mechanics, and when it does, I've basically wasted 2x the amount of stamina just to have it hit, and wasted all that dps pressure I could have been applying to my opponent.
@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_whoever the hell else will listen.
Post has been edited several times to clean it up in terms of verbosity, grammatical errors, and to add additional suggestions.
Edited by Kronuxx on April 9, 2018 8:29AM 1) Combustion passive shouldn't be a proc chance based on a status effect. Status effects don't work on wards (magicka shields). In addition, status effects have the highest chance to proc with weapon enchants. This also translates to the fact, that the highest chance of proccing status effects (weapon enchants) do not affect argonian/bosmer and dunmer due to their inherit resistance to poison/fire resistance relatively speaking. In addition the combustion passive should be based on applying poison and fire damage and not dependent the status effect. That would make the passive much more useful, in addition the original damage amp of 50% of the combustion passive should be kept in addition to what zos is adding now. It should not be replaced with this new change.
2) Elder Dragon is still completely useless of a passive. 5% Health recovery is useless. I repeat, it is completely useless. Not only is it useless but it requires the condition of using a draconic ability, which limits build diversity especially for stamina dk's who already have a limited magicka pool (considering that all Draconic abilities are relatively high cost magicka abilities). 5% health recovery for each draconic ability is essentially 32.5 more health recovery every second if you are geared towards Troll King (TK provides 1500 recovery if health drops below 50%. 5% of 1500 is 75, but remember that's 75 health recovery over 2 secs.) So even geared towards high recovery builds it's completely useless of a passive ability. Let's not forget it's also affected by defile, which is part of the current meta in PvP and we all know it.
3) Granting us snare removal with no immunity means nothing. The average Stamina DK magicka pool is 12K. Reflective plate is an extremely high cost magicka ability. With no immunity and because snares are extremely common place, the snare will be applied almost immediately back again. This leaves stamina DK's to recast the ability only 3 times, and each time will be useless as the snare will be reapplied again. And because Stamina DK's have no other utility stamina morphs, with only two that apply dots (venomous claws and noxious breath) this leaves our other utility skills like volatile armor, igneous shields, fossilize extremely difficult to use and captialize on. Especially igneous or in this case the possibly new morph fragmented shields as both are extremely high cost magicka abilities.
I can see 3 things that would help give Stamina DK's both identity and balance.
1) Give the new reflective plate morph a small snare immunity. I'd say 2-3 sec is fine for now.
2) I'd change the Elder Dragon passive to something that you ZOS even promote on character selection screen when you claim DK's are master of arms. I'd do just that. Change it to something like "Master at Arms" or "Strength of the Dragon" or keep it as "Elder Dragon" but change the passive to give physical damage/fire damage bonus where one skill point gives 1% and 2-3% for the second skill point when equipping a draconic ability on the skill bar. This would force DK's to make interesting builds to incoporate their draconic abilities into their skill slots and it would put them on par with the Passive skill damage bonuses of Warden (Advanced Species)/Sorc (Energized)/Templar (Balanced Warrior and Piercing Spear)/Nightblade (Master Assassin) as all have passives that grant some form of damage bonus for both their stamina and magicka counterparts. Dragonknights are the only class that not only have a time limited weapon damage buff, but they are also the only class with a completely meaningless passive. You could save yourself the two skill points and it would have no bearing on your overall survivability or performance. I cannot see, for any good justifiable reason as to why the Elder Dragon Passive still exists.
3) Give stamina DK's another poison morph (or even something unique, that's different than just a poison whip. @Vaoh posted an amazing suggestion below). We only have two, both of which are dots, and both of which are easily cleansed or countered (when a NB goes cloak, a templar purges, a sorc who shield stacks, a warden will out-heal unless defiled). The stamina morph can occupy the place of the Molten Whip morph. I don't know of one DK, whether it be Magicka or Stamina, worth their grain of salt who even uses this completely and utterly useless morph. If you are concerned about PvE dps, just do what you have done to Stamina Wardens. Give the poison spammable morph a slight delay. Make it akin to subterranean assault (perhaps not as clunky or slow). At least this will allow for more skill required to implement in rotation with PvE dps and even in PvP.
I implore you guys to please re-evaluate these 3 scenarios I have talked about. And if for any god-forsaken completely biased reason @ZOS_Wrobel , if you think that somehow your justification of what you think Dragonknights should be and shouldn't be is the correct way of thinking, then at the very least, change that god awful waste of 2 skill-points passive Elder Dragon.
4) P.S. The World In Ruin passive which grants any of the DK's fire and poison Area of Effect abilities an additional 6% is another completely useless passive for Stamina Dragonknights. Our only poison AOE is Noxious Breath. Noxious Breath has several issues. It's hit box is extremely wonky, thus your ability to have it land on a player becomes a guessing game. Did it land? Did it not? I have to depend on my opponents debuff bars to see if it lands, which is essentially about 50% of the time. And it doesn't miss because the opponent dodges, or moves out of the way. No, it's just that the hit box mechanics for this ability is that bad. The other issue is that its dot is *** poor in terms of damage output, and the Major Fracture debuff is much better utilized on something like Ransack, which is just as cheap, deals more burst damage, and is much easier to land. So in essence, World In Ruin, is another useless passive for Stamina DK. We only have one AOE poison which is difficult to land due to bad hit box mechanics, and when it does, I've basically wasted 2x the amount of stamina just to have it hit, and wasted all that dps pressure I could have been applying to my opponent.
@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_whoever the hell else will listen.
Post has been edited several times to clean it up in terms of verbosity, grammatical errors, and to add additional suggestions.
18
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Checkmath✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nice write up, good points there.
Representatives arent elected yet, but i hope the stamdk rep of the future reads this one.
Keep up the work
2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Straight to the point, I like it. (sadly not many stamDks left to actually discuss about the state of class.)
I would like to say that:
GDB being a tank heal that scales from missing hp,
battle roar-helping hands, favouring tank DKs over stamDks, (flat stamina return will always favour the ones with less stamina, but flat magicka return will not make a huge difference for a stamDk because the value we get from magicka compared to other stamina toons are just too low. igneous shield is so much weak compared to stuff like ritual, cloak, dark deal,shimmering shield etc..)
venomous claws being outclassed by any bleed and noxious breath being just useless in general, (also both dots getting countered by cloak, shields, or purge/ritual)
having no other stamina morphs than dots and no proper magicka utility, (while other classes have stuff like dark deal, cloak, ritual etc for utility, we stamDks have major mending for ridicilous costs)
having sub-optimal passives that do not benefit the class for being a Damage dealer, or just benefitting magicka Dks alone.
World in Ruin being useless for stamDks due to lack of aoe poison abilities(noxious breath is crap as stated above, has a damage model lower than even brawler, without the survivability benefits.)
combustion being pathetic ,and poisoned in general being a very weak status effect,
having to actually spam abilities to benefit from minor brutality, and the minor brutality being a group buff, further increasing the gap between stamDk and other stam toons, while also reducing the need for a stamDK,(because you can just run a magDk and tank Dk instead and still provide this buff to teammates.)
And last but not least, igneous weapons being such a weak ability that even pve stamDks using molten armaments, the magicka morph over it.
all these things combined is the reason why stamDk is bad. Its mainly a power creep issue and a clear overnerf situation.
I understand the battle roar-helping hands nerfs were a part of morrowind sustain nerfs, but ZOS forgets that this class was only played for its high sustain, and without that sustain, there just isn't any reason left to pick and play one.
Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 13, 2018 3:41AM4 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A pure stam dk dps can be a pain in the backside, but my stam tank/dps is awesome. My advice is look at aggressive tanks and solo builds in particular, you’ll find your mojo, or you’ll end up in a class you prefer. Maybe you should try other classes?Personally I wouldn’t swap my heavily armoured, greatsword wielding lady for anything
1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »A pure stam dk dps can be a pain in the backside, but my stam tank/dps is awesome. My advice is look at aggressive tanks and solo builds in particular, you’ll find your mojo, or you’ll end up in a class you prefer. Maybe you should try other classes?Personally I wouldn’t swap my heavily armoured, greatsword wielding lady for anything
You can be a heavily armored greatsword wielding lady or lad on any class now. Its not something DK specific anymore.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 7, 2018 9:32PM2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't know who the class representative is for Stamina DK's but I hope you a have strong voice. We stamina DK's need you now more than ever. The class balance changes recently mentioned pre-pts for Summerset are not only relatively minor for stamina dk's, they are clearly geared towards their magicka counterparts.
1) combustion passive shouldn't be a proc chance based on a status effect. Status effects don't work on wards (magicka shields). In addition, status effects have the highest chance to proc with weapon enchants, but if @ZOS_Wrobel understood game mechanics then he'd realize that the highest chance of proccing status effects (weapon enchants) do not affect argonian/bosmer and dunmer due to their inherit resistance to poison/fire resistance relatively speaking. In addition the combustion passive should be based on applying poison and fire damage, not the status effect. That would make the passive much more useful, in addition the original damage amp of 50% of the combustion passive should be kept in addition to what zos is adding now. It should not be replaced with this new change.
2) Elder Dragon is still completely useless of a passive. 5% Health recovery is useless. I repeat, it is completely useless. Not only is it useless but it requires the condition of using a draconic ability, which limits build diversity especially for stamina dk's who already have a limited magicka pool (considering that all Draconic abilities are relatively high cost magicka abilities). 5% health recovery for each draconic ability is essentially 32.5 more health recovery every second if you are geared towards Troll King (TK provides 1500 recovery if health drops below 50%. 5% of 1500 is 75, but remember that's 75 health recovery over 2 secs.) So even geared towards high recovery builds it's completely useless of a passive ability. Let's not forget it's also affected by defile, which is part of the current meta in PvP and we all know it.
3) Granting us snare removal with no immunity means nothing. The average Stamina DK magicka pool is 12K. Reflective plate is an extremely high cost magicka ability. With no immunity and because snares are extremely common place, the snare will be applied almost immediately back again. This leaves stamina DK's to recast the ability only 3 times, and each time will be useless as the snare will be reapplied again. And because Stamina DK's have no other utility stamina morphs, with only two that apply dots (venomous claws and noxious breath) this leaves our other utility skills like volatile armor, igneous shields, fossilize extremely difficult to use and captialize on. Especially igneous or in this case the possibly new morph fragmented shields as both are extremely high cost magicka abilities.
I can see 3 things that would help not only give Stamina DK's identity and balance.
1) Give the new reflective plate morph a small snare immunity. I'd say 2-3 sec is fine for now.
2) I'd change the Elder Dragon passive to something that you ZOS even promote on character selection screen when you claim DK's are master of arms. I'd do just that. Change it to something like "Master at Arms" or "Strength of the Dragon" or keep it as "Elder Dragon" but change the passive to give physical damage/fire damage bonus where one skill point gives 1% and 2-3% for the second skill point when equipping a draconic ability on the skill bar. This would force DK's to make interesting builds to incoporate their draconic abilities into their skill slots and it would put them on par with the Passive skill damage bonuses of Warden (Advanced Species)/Sorc (Energized)/Templar (Balanced Warrior and Piercing Spear)/Nightblade (Master Assassin) as all have passives that grant some form of damage bonus for both their stamina and magicka counterparts. Dragonknights are the only class that not only have a time limited weapon damage buff, but they are also the only class with a completely meaningless passive. You could save yourself the two skill points and it would have no bearing on your overall survivability or performance. I cannot see, for any good justifiable reason as to why the Elder Dragon Passive still exists.
3) Give stamina DK's another poison morph. We only have two, both of which are dots, and both of which are easily cleansed or countered (when a NB goes cloak, a templar purges, a sorc who shield stacks, a warden will out-heal unless defiled). The stamina morph can occupy the place of the Molten Whip morph. I don't know of one DK, whether it be Magicka or Stamina, worth their grain of salt who even uses this completely and utterly useless morph. If you are concerned about PvE dps, just do what you have done to Stamina Wardens. Give the poison spammable morph a slight delay. Make it akin to subterranean assault (perhaps not as clunky or slow). At least this will allow for more skill required to implement in rotation with PvE dps and even in PvP.
I implore you guys to please re-evaluate these 3 scenarios I have talked about. And if for any god-forsaken completely biased reason @ZOS_Wrobel , if you think that somehow your justification of what you think Dragonknights should be and shouldn't be is the correct way of thinking, then at the very least, change that god awful waste of 2 skill-points passive Elder Dragon.
@ZOS_Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_whoever the hell else will listen.
Nice post. I've been advocating for stam whip for a while now.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Integral1900✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Integral1900 wrote: »A pure stam dk dps can be a pain in the backside, but my stam tank/dps is awesome. My advice is look at aggressive tanks and solo builds in particular, you’ll find your mojo, or you’ll end up in a class you prefer. Maybe you should try other classes?Personally I wouldn’t swap my heavily armoured, greatsword wielding lady for anything
You can be a heavily armored greatsword wielding lady or lad on any class now. Its not something DK specific anymore.
Maybe, but no one does it with the dragon knights style, it’s all about the charisma for me, helps the charecter come alive, besides up until a few weeks ago I had six charecters, culled them down to the dk and a magic Templar, realy glad I did.... hadn’t used the rest in ages anyway
Also, to be honest, leap trumps everything else out of sheer coolness
Edited by Integral1900 on April 8, 2018 5:42AM1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Integral1900 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Integral1900 wrote: »A pure stam dk dps can be a pain in the backside, but my stam tank/dps is awesome. My advice is look at aggressive tanks and solo builds in particular, you’ll find your mojo, or you’ll end up in a class you prefer. Maybe you should try other classes?Personally I wouldn’t swap my heavily armoured, greatsword wielding lady for anything
You can be a heavily armored greatsword wielding lady or lad on any class now. Its not something DK specific anymore.
Maybe, but no one does it with the dragon knights style, it’s all about the charisma for me, helps the charecter come alive, besides up until a few weeks ago I had six charecters, culled them down to the dk and a magic Templar, realy glad I did.... hadn’t used the rest in ages anyway
Also, to be honest, leap trumps everything else out of sheer coolness
I'm happy that you enjoy your DK but at the same time, I don't think you understand what is being talked about in this thread at all.
Its about how the class actually plays against other alternatives, Its not about how cool or charismatic it is.
So please, go back and actually read the thing, the Op's post is very informative and just the very first paragraph sums it up very nicely.
Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 8, 2018 7:07AM5 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭*Combustion - Yes change
Needs to return 500-600 Magic or Stamina based on direct Fire/stam damage used from class abilities. Cooldown of every 4 seconds to prevent being OP. But is a good garunteed resource return every 4 seconds. Good for All DK specs and isn't OP
*Whip - Maybe.
A stamina morph whip, ehh gonna have to say no. Stam bleed builds and Defile setups are currently OP asf on stam toons. Couple that with a DK stam whip on 2h Bar and having acces to Executioner. Just no lol it'd be superior to mag dk by too far a margin. And a relative parity between mag and stam Dk needs to be there. Which is where we are now Mostly because both are suffering. Stam dk has access to good defile/bleed and has access nice diversity to 2 exection skills (bow, 2h) Mag Dk has access to great CC and whip synergy to stay alive.
Sustain SUCK's for both though.
But ultimately no to whip, unless as OP suggested that it has a delay or change what the morph is to something physical for Stam dk's without making the skill to strong in conjuction with defile and bleeds. Stam dk's need more ability to cc without relying on clunky 2h animation.
*Elder Dragon - YES change.
Absolutely agree with OP this is a USELESS passive for any and all specs of DK. Change into physical Resistance or something0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭They could probably rework that useless Obsidian Shard into a powerful, unique AoE Stam CC.
Obsidian Shard
Slam an enemy with solid rock, dealing [x] Magic Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.
Also heals you or a nearby ally for [y] Health.
^^^no
Stone Awakening
Cast Time: Instant
Cost: 3000 Stamina
Radius: 10 meters
Slam the ground beneath you with tremendous force, dealing [x] Physical Damage and stunning up to 3 enemies for 3 seconds and applying Minor Fracture for 10 seconds.
After 2 seconds the ground becomes saturated with venom, dealing [y] Poison Damage each second over 8 seconds to anyone standing inside and applying Minor Defile.
The AoE Direct Damage CC would equal 80% of a Subterranean Assault’s Damage. The DoT would deal 20% of a Subterranean Assault’s Damage per tick.
Now Stam DKs get a very strong and unique skill that only they can use, and which can be always be used to great effect. Even if you just spam this, it would deal very high Damage in an AoE, though it’d drain Stam quick. I can just imagine Stam DKs aggressively smashing the ground with rocks flying everywhere lol
@Ragnarock41 would you use that?
Edited by Vaoh on April 8, 2018 9:25PM6 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭sounds crazy strong....
I’m more on about the concept, not necessarily the numbers. I’d rather Stam DKs were made unique instead of given Stam Whip, Stam Inhale, Stam Talons, etc. Mag DK and Stam DK should stay feeling different. This skill would be like when Stam Sorcs got Hurricane - a legit strong skill that was unique to the class.2 -
Kronuxx✭✭✭✭They could probably rework that useless Obsidian Shard into a powerful, unique AoE Stam CC.
Obsidian Shard
Slam an enemy with solid rock, dealing [x] Magic Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.
Also heals you or a nearby ally for [y] Health.
^^^no
Stone Awakening
Cast Time: Instant
Cost: 3000 Stamina
Radius: 10 meters
Slam the ground beneath you with tremendous force, dealing [x] Physical Damage and stunning up to 3 enemies for 3 seconds and applying Minor Fracture for 10 seconds.
After 2 seconds the ground becomes saturated with venom, dealing [y] Poison Damage each second over 8 seconds to anyone standing inside and applying Minor Defile.
The AoE Direct Damage CC would equal 80% of a Subterranean Assault’s Damage. The DoT would deal 20% of a Subterranean Assault’s Damage per tick.
Now Stam DKs get a very strong and unique skill that only they can use, and which can be always be used to great effect. Even if you just spam this, it would deal very high Damage in an AoE, though it’d drain Stam quick. I can just imagine Stam DKs aggressively smashing the ground with rocks flying everywhere lol
@Ragnarock41 would you use that?
A great suggestion. Unique and an interesting way to add an identity to Stam DK's. I agree, numbers can always be tweaked, but what the skill brings should be useful, unique, and provide the Stam DK the opportunity to contribute to a group scenario.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭They could probably rework that useless Obsidian Shard into a powerful, unique AoE Stam CC.
Obsidian Shard
Slam an enemy with solid rock, dealing [x] Magic Damage and stunning them for 3 seconds.
Also heals you or a nearby ally for [y] Health.
^^^no
Stone Awakening
Cast Time: Instant
Cost: 3000 Stamina
Radius: 10 meters
Slam the ground beneath you with tremendous force, dealing [x] Physical Damage and stunning up to 3 enemies for 3 seconds and applying Minor Fracture for 10 seconds.
After 2 seconds the ground becomes saturated with venom, dealing [y] Poison Damage each second over 8 seconds to anyone standing inside and applying Minor Defile.
The AoE Direct Damage CC would equal 80% of a Subterranean Assault’s Damage. The DoT would deal 20% of a Subterranean Assault’s Damage per tick.
Now Stam DKs get a very strong and unique skill that only they can use, and which can be always be used to great effect. Even if you just spam this, it would deal very high Damage in an AoE, though it’d drain Stam quick. I can just imagine Stam DKs aggressively smashing the ground with rocks flying everywhere lol
@Ragnarock41 would you use that?
Both of these sound very good. Burst is something sDK lacks and such a skill would be a godsent for us. Though obviously such a strong skill also needs a great cost to prevent non stop aoe spam. Because we all remember what happened with EOTS or steel tornado back in the day. Or they could simply make it a very small aoe. Not a 20 meter huge cone like sub assault and that would solve the issues.
That being said a dot on the ground after 2 second sounds weak, unless the dot is really strong. But then that would make stamDK stronger in pve, which for some reason nobody wants.
All things considered I like the idea of having a ground slam ability, fits the earthern heart skill tree.
Edit: I hate to admit, but you're right about giving stamDK whip and talons and etc... Those skills are the identity and the dragon theme of magDk, and maybe they should stay that way. stamDK was never really a ''Dragon'' Knight.
The class was always meant to use weapon skills and guild/alliance skills.
Even the physical damage leap and the poison damage dots were added later to give this class some sort of identity.
In the end its ZOS who is going to decide on this, will they be lazy about this or will they actually care for once, I can't wait to see.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 9, 2018 3:25PM1 -
xbobx✭✭✭✭✭i would like clarification if the 50% bonus to fire and poison damage dot was removed from combustion and replaced with the resource gain, or if it was just added.0
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Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭i would like clarification if the 50% bonus to fire and poison damage dot was removed from combustion and replaced with the resource gain, or if it was just added.
We will learn that very soon,patch notes are supposed to come out in mid-april.
But to be honest with you, It should proc from fire or posion damage, not status effects. Status effects are RNG based and it will force us to run fire/poison glyphs and remove poisons from weapons which would be a nerf, not a buff. Poisons are a big part of my pressure and I can't drop the berserker enchant due to min maxing.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 9, 2018 3:20PM0 -
Toast_STS✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »
Zos is currently respecting the Geneva Protocol but I hear there is a Trump on the Board of Directors so I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to leave it and start producing gas knights.VR14 DK Leaps-in-keeps2 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭As far as PvP goes...
The problem with stam DK is that it doesn't do anything that another stam character goes better.
Burst - warden, Templar and nightblade have better burst. Even stam Sorc does if you get lucky with implosion proc. Leap is more damage than DB but linking that burst can be tricky. Warden has shalks to help, Templar has power of the light and NB has a lot of burst with incap and suprise attack.
Spammable - The problem is, you won't land many dizzyings on good players. So you go the la, ransack/heroic, bash weave. A good player will withstand it. DW is more sustained pressure so again lacks burst.
Mobility - Templar is in the same boat. But NB, warden and stam Sorc have way superior ability to reposition.
Sustain - Templar again suggests the same fate. But NB and warden get great sustain passives and Sorc has dark deal (which thanks to how interrupts now grant cc immunity, is goddamm amazing). Helping hands is trash - use 4.something magica for like 900 stam. Mountain's blessing can give a lot, but using your ultimate to sustain isn't practical - you should be using it to close kills, so using it to sustain makes that lack of burst even more lacking.
For a start, make noxious work in PvP. It's terrible. It never connects with people. In pve it work amazing. In PvP, the guy is in your face and nothing.2 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Edit: I hate to admit, but you're right about giving stamDK whip and talons and etc... Those skills are the identity and the dragon theme of magDk, and maybe they should stay that way. stamDK was never really a ''Dragon'' Knight.
I disagree with this statement. Stamdks are still “dragon” knights, they just focus on other dragon elements...specifically the poison and physical side.
I don’t think we need a stam version of talons, but definitely do think we need a steam version of whip. We need better spammable options and the best solution is with whip. Either that or they need to change up the currently available weapon spammables to be more efficient.
An alternative solution to make stamdks competitive again is to provide some sort of delayed burst; however, I think that would make us to similar to other classes and is not as desirable of an option.Edited by NobleX35 on April 9, 2018 4:21PM"Only the dead have seen the end of war."2 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭@Ragnarock41
Thats BS stam dk absolutely needs to have an identity like the other stam classes otherwise why play one? And like
@NobleX35
Said a poison whip might be the puzzle piece to fix it. But I dont see them doing that sadly.Power Wealth And Influence.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Edit: I hate to admit, but you're right about giving stamDK whip and talons and etc... Those skills are the identity and the dragon theme of magDk, and maybe they should stay that way. stamDK was never really a ''Dragon'' Knight.
I disagree with this statement. Stamdks are still “dragon” knights, they just focus on other dragon elements...specifically the poison and physical side.
I don’t think we need a stam version of talons, but definitely do think we need a steam version of whip. We need better spammable options and the best solution is with whip. Either that or they need to change up the currently available weapon spammables to be more efficient.
An alternative solution to make stamdks competitive again is to provide some sort of delayed burst; however, I think that would make us to similar to other classes and is not as desirable of an option.Anti_Virus wrote: »@Ragnarock41
Thats BS stam dk absolutely needs to have an identity like the other stam classes otherwise why play one? And like
@NobleX35
Said a poison whip might be the puzzle piece to fix it. But I dont see them doing that sadly.
Yo calm down guys, I'm telling how the ZOS sees things rather than how I would like to see it. Thing is I don't want stamDK to have EVERYTHING. I just want to be able to play this class without feeling like I'm missing out on power.
And truth to be told, stamina Dk was never really a thing untill zos decided to give us the physical damage leap, the poison dots etc.
This class was always mainly magicka focused and it still is. That is the sad truth of things. Out of all stamina classes Dk is really the weakest themed one because of this.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 9, 2018 6:05PM2 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Edit: I hate to admit, but you're right about giving stamDK whip and talons and etc... Those skills are the identity and the dragon theme of magDk, and maybe they should stay that way. stamDK was never really a ''Dragon'' Knight.
I disagree with this statement. Stamdks are still “dragon” knights, they just focus on other dragon elements...specifically the poison and physical side.
I don’t think we need a stam version of talons, but definitely do think we need a steam version of whip. We need better spammable options and the best solution is with whip. Either that or they need to change up the currently available weapon spammables to be more efficient.
An alternative solution to make stamdks competitive again is to provide some sort of delayed burst; however, I think that would make us to similar to other classes and is not as desirable of an option.Anti_Virus wrote: »@Ragnarock41
Thats BS stam dk absolutely needs to have an identity like the other stam classes otherwise why play one? And like
@NobleX35
Said a poison whip might be the puzzle piece to fix it. But I dont see them doing that sadly.
Yo calm down guys, I'm telling how the ZOS sees things rather than how I would like to see it. Thing is I don't want stamDK to have EVERYTHING. I just want to be able to play this class without feeling like I'm missing out on power.
And truth to be told, stamina Dk was never really a thing untill zos decided to give us the physical damage leap, the poison dots etc.
This class was always mainly magicka focused and it still is. That is the sad truth of things. Out of all stamina classes Dk is really the weakest themed one because of this.
I don’t want stamdk to have everything either, which is why I don’t think we need delayed burst and a class spammable. I do think we need one and preferably the spammable.
I definitely agree that it is unfortunate how the combat team seems to view StamDks and have done literally nothing to help boost them up from the bottom for the last year almost. A few small simple changes (like poison whip) would probably do the trick to make them fun and viable again. The mindset of having a class that “waits for allies to come and finish off opponents” is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and does not promote good game balance."Only the dead have seen the end of war."0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Edit: I hate to admit, but you're right about giving stamDK whip and talons and etc... Those skills are the identity and the dragon theme of magDk, and maybe they should stay that way. stamDK was never really a ''Dragon'' Knight.
I disagree with this statement. Stamdks are still “dragon” knights, they just focus on other dragon elements...specifically the poison and physical side.
I don’t think we need a stam version of talons, but definitely do think we need a steam version of whip. We need better spammable options and the best solution is with whip. Either that or they need to change up the currently available weapon spammables to be more efficient.
An alternative solution to make stamdks competitive again is to provide some sort of delayed burst; however, I think that would make us to similar to other classes and is not as desirable of an option.Anti_Virus wrote: »@Ragnarock41
Thats BS stam dk absolutely needs to have an identity like the other stam classes otherwise why play one? And like
@NobleX35
Said a poison whip might be the puzzle piece to fix it. But I dont see them doing that sadly.
Yo calm down guys, I'm telling how the ZOS sees things rather than how I would like to see it. Thing is I don't want stamDK to have EVERYTHING. I just want to be able to play this class without feeling like I'm missing out on power.
And truth to be told, stamina Dk was never really a thing untill zos decided to give us the physical damage leap, the poison dots etc.
This class was always mainly magicka focused and it still is. That is the sad truth of things. Out of all stamina classes Dk is really the weakest themed one because of this.
I don’t want stamdk to have everything either, which is why I don’t think we need delayed burst and a class spammable. I do think we need one and preferably the spammable.
I definitely agree that it is unfortunate how the combat team seems to view StamDks and have done literally nothing to help boost them up from the bottom for the last year almost. A few small simple changes (like poison whip) would probably do the trick to make them fun and viable again. The mindset of having a class that “waits for allies to come and finish off opponents” is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and does not promote good game balance.
I really don't see what poison whip would even change to be honest. In the end of the day If I'm still forced into SnB , poison whip means literally nothing. Heroic slash gives me good enough damage with utility packed in it. Don't really see a reason to use a whip instead of it just because it scales off of stamina.
Now if it has strong scalings one could make a 2h/bow build without relying on dizzying swing, but still, it doesn't fix any of the other issues, like how are you going to survive without SnB? agains't stamsorcs that can infinitely dark deal spam, stamblades that can just erase you with 2 buttons, magblades with their 30k burst, magsorcs with shieldstack,atro, mines etc....
I want to look optimistic but I really can't. I would prefer them just reverting the passives to what they were and I wouldn't ask for anything else really. Just give me back old battle roar-helping hands and I will be a happy camper.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 9, 2018 7:17PM2 -
NobleX35✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Edit: I hate to admit, but you're right about giving stamDK whip and talons and etc... Those skills are the identity and the dragon theme of magDk, and maybe they should stay that way. stamDK was never really a ''Dragon'' Knight.
I disagree with this statement. Stamdks are still “dragon” knights, they just focus on other dragon elements...specifically the poison and physical side.
I don’t think we need a stam version of talons, but definitely do think we need a steam version of whip. We need better spammable options and the best solution is with whip. Either that or they need to change up the currently available weapon spammables to be more efficient.
An alternative solution to make stamdks competitive again is to provide some sort of delayed burst; however, I think that would make us to similar to other classes and is not as desirable of an option.Anti_Virus wrote: »@Ragnarock41
Thats BS stam dk absolutely needs to have an identity like the other stam classes otherwise why play one? And like
@NobleX35
Said a poison whip might be the puzzle piece to fix it. But I dont see them doing that sadly.
Yo calm down guys, I'm telling how the ZOS sees things rather than how I would like to see it. Thing is I don't want stamDK to have EVERYTHING. I just want to be able to play this class without feeling like I'm missing out on power.
And truth to be told, stamina Dk was never really a thing untill zos decided to give us the physical damage leap, the poison dots etc.
This class was always mainly magicka focused and it still is. That is the sad truth of things. Out of all stamina classes Dk is really the weakest themed one because of this.
I don’t want stamdk to have everything either, which is why I don’t think we need delayed burst and a class spammable. I do think we need one and preferably the spammable.
I definitely agree that it is unfortunate how the combat team seems to view StamDks and have done literally nothing to help boost them up from the bottom for the last year almost. A few small simple changes (like poison whip) would probably do the trick to make them fun and viable again. The mindset of having a class that “waits for allies to come and finish off opponents” is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and does not promote good game balance.
I really don't see what poison whip would even change to be honest. In the end of the day If I'm still forced into SnB , poison whip means literally nothing. Heroic slash gives me good enough damage with utility packed in it. Don't really see a reason to use a whip instead of it just because it scales off of stamina.
It would likely do more damage than heroic slash and hopefully the morph would also be interesting. Not to mention it would open up dual wield as a possibility and could make running 2h front bar more viable as well. The greatest benefit from a poison whip would probably be build diversity.
I don’t think heroic slash was ever intended to be a “spammable” and while it has descent damage, it really borders on being mediocre."Only the dead have seen the end of war."0 -
Nelson_Rebel✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Edit: I hate to admit, but you're right about giving stamDK whip and talons and etc... Those skills are the identity and the dragon theme of magDk, and maybe they should stay that way. stamDK was never really a ''Dragon'' Knight.
I disagree with this statement. Stamdks are still “dragon” knights, they just focus on other dragon elements...specifically the poison and physical side.
I don’t think we need a stam version of talons, but definitely do think we need a steam version of whip. We need better spammable options and the best solution is with whip. Either that or they need to change up the currently available weapon spammables to be more efficient.
An alternative solution to make stamdks competitive again is to provide some sort of delayed burst; however, I think that would make us to similar to other classes and is not as desirable of an option.Anti_Virus wrote: »@Ragnarock41
Thats BS stam dk absolutely needs to have an identity like the other stam classes otherwise why play one? And like
@NobleX35
Said a poison whip might be the puzzle piece to fix it. But I dont see them doing that sadly.
Yo calm down guys, I'm telling how the ZOS sees things rather than how I would like to see it. Thing is I don't want stamDK to have EVERYTHING. I just want to be able to play this class without feeling like I'm missing out on power.
And truth to be told, stamina Dk was never really a thing untill zos decided to give us the physical damage leap, the poison dots etc.
This class was always mainly magicka focused and it still is. That is the sad truth of things. Out of all stamina classes Dk is really the weakest themed one because of this.
I don’t want stamdk to have everything either, which is why I don’t think we need delayed burst and a class spammable. I do think we need one and preferably the spammable.
I definitely agree that it is unfortunate how the combat team seems to view StamDks and have done literally nothing to help boost them up from the bottom for the last year almost. A few small simple changes (like poison whip) would probably do the trick to make them fun and viable again. The mindset of having a class that “waits for allies to come and finish off opponents” is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard and does not promote good game balance.
I really don't see what poison whip would even change to be honest. In the end of the day If I'm still forced into SnB , poison whip means literally nothing. Heroic slash gives me good enough damage with utility packed in it. Don't really see a reason to use a whip instead of it just because it scales off of stamina.
Pretty much this.
And they would have to take away any special healing or other effects to make it balanced since stam dk's have execute and defile access. (Reverb = defile) (Back bar 2h or Bow = Executioner and Posion arrow) Executes.
It wouldnt normally be a problem but stam dk's are tanky asf to have that much spammable burst.
Stam dk's need an Earthen heart skill that synergizes with their playstyle. The one from above was a good idea for the delayed poison burst attack. Would def be more unique and passives from eathen heart would synergize with the class setup without being to strong.Edited by Nelson_Rebel on April 9, 2018 7:20PM1
I even have the gas mask ready 
