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Is Incapacitating Strike bugged/broken?
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Irylia✭✭✭✭✭
✭The skill is fine and working just properly. There are elements in the skill and in your counter play that are bugged.
Most of this is a L2P/lag problem, but lemme explain what isn't;
1) The stun on incap is not a stun. It is a Knock down, similar to a knock back (like flame clench), which means your body has a travel time in which you cannot do anything at all including CC break. This window is very short but makes a difference. This is why you feel as if the stun is buggy
2) The roll animation does not properly telegraph the window in which you are actually dodging. So you may see your stamina drain as your character begins to move, but it takes a little bit of time for the roll to actually go off, this is not a latency issues. It's an issue with the game. So it's not that are are "still within melee range" but it is more the fact the roll hasn't actually gone off yet.
Now quit it with the nightblade hate I'm getting really tired of it. lets complain about the game's mechanics being buggy not nightblades being OP. We know stamblade is over preforming, we get it
But when sorc has multiple threads complaining about skills that aren’t even an issue on a Class that isn’t over performing, it’s fine, and you add to it.
[Edit to remove bait.]Edited by ZOS_GregoryV on April 6, 2018 4:28PM12 -
bardx86✭✭✭✭✭
✭Incap regularly hits through dodgeroll or even shields.
The times i´ve died to incap/killer's blade with an active ward/through rolldodge isn´t funny. Both have the same issue with being prioritized over anything else with the server for some weird reason.
OMG, I thought I was crazy, maybe still am. However I've had extremely high damage even with I knew shields we're up. hmm.0 -
NobleGuardian✭✭✭The skill is fine and working just properly. There are elements in the skill and in your counter play that are bugged.
Most of this is a L2P/lag problem, but lemme explain what isn't;
1) The stun on incap is not a stun. It is a Knock down, similar to a knock back (like flame clench), which means your body has a travel time in which you cannot do anything at all including CC break. This window is very short but makes a difference. This is why you feel as if the stun is buggy
2) The roll animation does not properly telegraph the window in which you are actually dodging. So you may see your stamina drain as your character begins to move, but it takes a little bit of time for the roll to actually go off, this is not a latency issues. It's an issue with the game. So it's not that are are "still within melee range" but it is more the fact the roll hasn't actually gone off yet.
Now quit it with the nightblade hate I'm getting really tired of it. lets complain about the game's mechanics being buggy not nightblades being OP. We know stamblade is over preforming, we get it
i haven't laughed this hard in awhile dude LOL "incap being broken is an L2P issue." God thats a good meme! Appreciate the good laugh manEdited by NobleGuardian on April 6, 2018 6:47PM6 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The skill is fine and working just properly. There are elements in the skill and in your counter play that are bugged.
Most of this is a L2P/lag problem, but lemme explain what isn't;
1) The stun on incap is not a stun. It is a Knock down, similar to a knock back (like flame clench), which means your body has a travel time in which you cannot do anything at all including CC break. This window is very short but makes a difference. This is why you feel as if the stun is buggy
2) The roll animation does not properly telegraph the window in which you are actually dodging. So you may see your stamina drain as your character begins to move, but it takes a little bit of time for the roll to actually go off, this is not a latency issues. It's an issue with the game. So it's not that are are "still within melee range" but it is more the fact the roll hasn't actually gone off yet.
Now quit it with the nightblade hate I'm getting really tired of it. lets complain about the game's mechanics being buggy not nightblades being OP. We know stamblade is over preforming, we get it
But when sorc has multiple threads complaining about skills that aren’t even an issue on a Class that isn’t over performing, it’s fine, and you add to it.
[Edit to remove bait.]
My only regret is that I have only one “Awesome” to give Irylia.4 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Incap regularly hits through dodgeroll or even shields.
The times i´ve died to incap/killer's blade with an active ward/through rolldodge isn´t funny. Both have the same issue with being prioritized over anything else with the server for some weird reason.
Executioner does it, as well.
I think this has to do with the inconsistency between he dodge roll animation and the actual dodge window. They don’t go through block, but due to latency and whatnot it looks like they do on your screen. I’m sure the one that killed through block didn’t see it that way on his screen.
I don´t think it has much to do with that. Apart from dodgeroll animation on screen being disconnected from the server which is horrible in itself.
It happens regularly that i lie dead on the ground with a healing ward showing on my empty hp bar against enemies not utilizing oblivion dmg + the last dmg in my combatlog being Incap/melee finisher.
With the log showing sth like:
19.125 you heal yourself with grand healing 1800 (the healing ward heal - which also applys the shield)
19.578 yxz hits you with random melee ability 7800 crit
You ded.
It happens also with other shields (namely hardened) - but is much harder to track down due to only being traceable with screenshots (which i admit i´m always too triggered too make when it happens again bc *** this - as the shield still hast it´s 6s duration).
Healingward clearly shows due to the heal connected to the shield though.
Yeah, point is though that the player doing it is never aware of that on his screen. I for one can’t seem to recall ever visibly killing someone with incap through dodge roll on my end, but I know that people often told me that I actually killed them through it. This leads me to believe it has to be a server issue or something along the lines of animation/ability priority like you and Thogard mentioned.
I´ve hit people through rolldodge on my screen and @Ragnaroek93 also sometimes sees it when he hit me through dodge.
Can confirm that, Incap seems to go through rolldodge sometimes.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭runningtings wrote: »My Incap hits for about 3 or 4k, its not OP.
that may have to do with your build being bad. 3k incap? come on lol.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 6, 2018 8:01PM2 -
danno8✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »runningtings wrote: »My Incap hits for about 3 or 4k, its not OP.
that may have to do with your build being bad. 3k incap? come on lol.
On a blocking target maybe, lol.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »runningtings wrote: »My Incap hits for about 3 or 4k, its not OP.
that may have to do with your build being bad. 3k incap? come on lol.
On a blocking target maybe, lol.
I think he wants to say he hits 3-4k on average, which really makes me question what kind of gear he uses.
I could probably wear fortified brass+impreg for lols and still hit harder than that.
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klink012✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Generally speaking the skills that "seem" to penetrate dodge roll (executioner, incap etc) don't if they are used without animation cancelling them.
However, when they are instantly (and no doubt, in some cases, mechanically) animation cancelled they often go right through and hit you in the middle of a dodge roll.
It's lame and it's been abused by certain people for a while now. I guess the best way to explain it is the "pro" animation cancellers that are doing it instantly (as soon as you can cancel it basically) are forcing the skill to hit earlier than it would if the animation played out (or played at all) and for whatever reason it seems to ignore your state and even distance. It's one of the reasons (if not the main reason) they do it.
Fact is, an Incap strike with it's animation actually being played is relatively trivial to avoid. You can literally react to the animation of it beginning and dodge roll right through it. Though sometimes, it is just broken...
Yes. Animation canceling and lag is why there's 1 pvp camp left. Could have been such a great game!0 -
Koolio✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Generally speaking the skills that "seem" to penetrate dodge roll (executioner, incap etc) don't if they are used without animation cancelling them.
However, when they are instantly (and no doubt, in some cases, mechanically) animation cancelled they often go right through and hit you in the middle of a dodge roll.
It's lame and it's been abused by certain people for a while now. I guess the best way to explain it is the "pro" animation cancellers that are doing it instantly (as soon as you can cancel it basically) are forcing the skill to hit earlier than it would if the animation played out (or played at all) and for whatever reason it seems to ignore your state and even distance. It's one of the reasons (if not the main reason) they do it.
Fact is, an Incap strike with it's animation actually being played is relatively trivial to avoid. You can literally react to the animation of it beginning and dodge roll right through it. Though sometimes, it is just broken...
Yes. Animation canceling and lag is why there's 1 pvp camp left. Could have been such a great game!
Lag yes
Animation canceling I doubt it (I and all my friends love it)
4 years of the same Pvp with Terrible rewards Yes
Nerf after nerf after Nerf yes
Broken Skills unfixed for months Yes
Falling over sliding from 5 unseen unheard snipes that all register at same time Yes
Lag Yes3 -
Kova✭✭✭✭✭Hey Everyone!
I wanted to show an example on what most people will see when up against this issue. I built this players setup and we dueled for a bit. This is what we felt was the best representation of what's going on. Notice that the player is using a shield, so being tanky is no issue. I was playing a magicka sorc and my burst was like throwing confetti at him.
He incaps me, I survive and stack shields except now every attack he does over the next 6 seconds will be at max power and be treated almost like an execute. The damage totals 21.4k and that is from my max health of 25k. The last two skills, a super common combo, hits for 12k damage. That is HALF my health gone in half a second. Of course, under the influence of incap I cannot heal through the damage.
Think about the nerf sorc threads. Think about how players complain about how shields are basically 18k-20k extra health for sorcs. Let's assume that these complaints are legit. Now consider my friend here was easily able to tear through them like paper. Like I mentioned before, this isn't a NB problem. It's just a fundamental mechanic issue. What's the point in having health bars if half health is a death sentence for anyone holding block?
And to be honest, getting people to half health is the only way I can kill them sometimes. So I'm equally apart of it, yeah?EP Sorc: Aydinn
AD Stamplar: Verdant`Knight
DC Stamblade: Apple`Punch
EP Stam Sorc: Kós
AD DragonKnight: Transmigrant
EP NIghtblade: Aydinn0 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭I feel like I get very similar results from Templars. Honestly I couldn't even tell you exactly which skill it is, but piercing javelin (for one, I believe) just...seems to lock me down. Can't break free at all. So...I'm just totally stun locked for about 3 seconds while I die.
Edited for typo.Edited by Thunderknuckles on April 7, 2018 1:25AM4 -
Gilvoth✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thunderknuckles wrote: »I feel like I get very similar results from Templars. Honestly I couldn't even tell you exactly which skill it is, but piercing javelin (for one, I believe) just...seems to lock me down. Can't break free at all. So...I'm just totally stun locked for about 3 seconds while I die.
Edited for typo.
the same for me, as well as that stupid dragon leap.0 -
Baz✭✭✭
3 Incap in 25sec, perfectly balanced
vAA : 150.350 WS StamBladeMostly retired from PvE ESO
vSO : 171.041 CwC StamSorc
vHRC : 155.895 DB Tank
vMoL : 159.672 CwC Stamplar
vHoF : 206.667 MkM StamNB
vAS : 111.272 MkM Magplar
vCR : 128.397 WS MagSorc
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Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeah the server lag is infuriating. Not the move's fault though, but it is hard to counter what you can't see.0 -
Lucky28✭✭✭✭✭
✭Incap regularly hits through dodgeroll or even shields.
The times i´ve died to incap/killer's blade with an active ward/through rolldodge isn´t funny. Both have the same issue with being prioritized over anything else with the server for some weird reason.
it doesn't hit though either, it just hits before the shield applies or before the i frames from dodge roll applies. this is because the attack is instant. do agree that can be frustrating tho.
CCs in general are screwed up this patch. i don't know what they did but they did something bad to them.Edited by Lucky28 on April 8, 2018 9:14AMInvictus2 -
MetalHead4x4✭✭✭Hardened Ward seems like a long animation too, unless you animation cancel (which I don't) that follow up concealed weapon hit is gona get through and gonna be stronger (next NB strike is 20% stronger after Incap) before you can get that other shield cast off. Even running both shields they are almost instantly gone if I try and do anything but spam them. NB's seem to eat damage like tanks now and hardly anything in the Sorc arsenal (at least that I have) seems to do any damage.
I see Sorcs in small man groups literally jumping around shields up all the time and eating damage like crazy and I don't know how they are doing it. I can CC them and unload everything I have and they walk free unscathed. They seem like they don't have a care in the world about taking damage.
I heard people talking about 48K-50k + builds but how the hell do you even get magicka that high? With my gear setup if I don't run inner light and Bound Aegis I can barely get over 40k. Gear just doesn't offer that much.PC/NA Daevyen the Warlock (Sorc)0 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Most likely blue food and Inner Light slotted. Maybe even Bound Aegis and Overload bar shenanigans or god help us, Necropotence and a pet.
Those builds can stay in combat for half a minute, then they run out of juice. If you pin them down outside of their zerg with stamina characters, they will crumble easily, it's just a matter of time.0 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭As annoying as it is. Most of the problems are around the CC, not the skill itself. There are a few skills that have put me in an unbreakable CC lately. Though incap is probably the most common.3 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭MetalHead4x4 wrote: »Hardened Ward seems like a long animation too, unless you animation cancel (which I don't) that follow up concealed weapon hit is gona get through and gonna be stronger (next NB strike is 20% stronger after Incap) before you can get that other shield cast off. Even running both shields they are almost instantly gone if I try and do anything but spam them. NB's seem to eat damage like tanks now and hardly anything in the Sorc arsenal (at least that I have) seems to do any damage.
I see Sorcs in small man groups literally jumping around shields up all the time and eating damage like crazy and I don't know how they are doing it. I can CC them and unload everything I have and they walk free unscathed. They seem like they don't have a care in the world about taking damage.
I heard people talking about 48K-50k + builds but how the hell do you even get magicka that high? With my gear setup if I don't run inner light and Bound Aegis I can barely get over 40k. Gear just doesn't offer that much.
Use poisons on them. I've started running mag/stam poisons mostly to fight wardens. But, it seems even more effective against shield spammers.
Are you running all the undaunted passives? Do you have a mag friendly race? (Khajiit would be a waste. I did it once though.)
Those should get you higher. My mag DK has 43K mag wearing Juli/Sun/1 domihaus.
A sorc wearing necro should be getting substantially higher.
But I look forward to feeding them back the overload spam.Edited by kyle.wilson on April 9, 2018 7:33AM0 -
Maulkin✭✭✭✭✭
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I don’t know how many you think you can pull off, but my estimate is that you’ll be staring at your own death recap after spending 5 seconds on your overload bar during a fight. Never mind 25.
EU | PC | AD2 -
IZZEFlameLash✭✭✭✭✭
✭runningtings wrote: »My Incap hits for about 3 or 4k, its not OP.
You must be doing something very wrong if it only hits for that much... dayum.Imperials, the one and true masters of all mortal races of Tamriel1 -
Strider__Roshin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭IZZEFlameLash wrote: »runningtings wrote: »My Incap hits for about 3 or 4k, its not OP.
You must be doing something very wrong if it only hits for that much... dayum.
I would say the same about you if it's hitting you for harder than 7k. Incap is a great ult, but the damage isn't as crazy as people make it out to be, and if it weren't for the utility of defile, and the damage bonus I wouldn't even use it since surprise attack does comparable damage, and the spectral bow makes incap look like a wet noodle in comparison. If they nerf incap outside of the stun or increase the cost for any amount it would be a dead ultimate.0 -
Kadoin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Incap is extremely buggy. I recommend holding block when you see an NB cloak and think they might get you, 99.9% of the time they are still stupid enough to use incap even though it won't stun you
If not wait about 2-3 seconds, because most NBs attempt their gank before their cloak runs out. Even if they don't come out, its a win-win for you since they will either have to leave or attack you while you are blocking and reveal themselves, giving you a change to gap close -> block until you are in their face. This same tactic takes care of lethal arrow spammers too.
When they see you block that incap, smart NBs know to run far, far, away and go find someone else to try to gank. When I do that, dumb ones that don't simply die when I put conspicious poison on them (no cloaking for 10 seconds), snare, and put an end to them. Invisibility potions are also good toys to use after blocking the incap, you won't believe how many NBs can't handle an invisible templar or DK.0 -
MetalHead4x4✭✭✭Incap usually hits me for 8k-9k and sometimes if its a 2H build the follow up Reverse Slice has hit me for as high as 18k.PC/NA Daevyen the Warlock (Sorc)0
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WillhelmBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭When that CC does knock you down and becomes unbreakable the animation is of you sitting back up but sliding sideways at the same time. It's the same as Templar Javelin and usually happens after jumping. Might happen after dodge roll or a few other random character animations too.
Ever got Javelined twice? It's because you broke free in the air and are still falling. I don't think you're CC immune at that point.
What I'm getting at is, it's not specifically Incap that's bugged. It's knockdown.PC EU3