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Should Pay-to-Win be an option in the Crown Store?
Lunaugh
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Greetings fellow residents of One Tamriel!
I'm creating this poll under the assumption that there are currently NO pay-to-win options in the crownstore: Reference LINK
I am curious as to how the numbers will stack.
The poll is anonymous, don't worry about shaming.
Edited by Lunaugh on April 6, 2018 7:02PM I'm creating this poll under the assumption that there are currently NO pay-to-win options in the crownstore: Reference LINK
I am curious as to how the numbers will stack.
The poll is anonymous, don't worry about shaming.
dataOutput ={ }
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end
Should Pay-to-Win be an option in the Crown Store? 147 votes
Pay-To-Win items, skill lines and functions should exist in the Crown Store
8%
13 votes
Pay-To_win items, skill lines and functions should NOT exist in the Crown Store
91%
134 votes
0
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notimetocare✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is one of the dumbest questions in a long time... Not actually trying to be mean to you OP but yea... Very dumb question20 -
davey1107✭✭✭✭✭
✭Asking if pay to win should be allowed is like asking if rude noises should be allowed in a movie theater. Everyone will agree that no, obviously, they should not.
Then the woman with the toddler says that her kid isn’t making rude noises, just incidental noises.
The guy whose popcorn consumption sounds like a construction site says he’s just eating popcorn.
The person checking their phone messages will say they’re doing so quietly and respectfully.
The guy eating human flesh in the back row will say...you know what? It doesn’t matter. He’s going to jail, because that is cannibalism, and cannibalism is wrong regardless how noisy it is.
The point is that noise in the theater and pay to win products are in the eye of the beholder, so the premise of the question is flawed.10 -
Juju_beans✭✭✭✭✭
✭Some players think buying a horse with flame coming out of their legs is "pay to win".
This poll is doomed to fail from the start.10 -
Noisivid✭✭✭✭There will never be a consensus on exactly what is or what isn't pay-to-win.Vogon Poet Laureate2 -
Stewart1874✭✭✭✭✭I believe they should be selling level 50 for those of us who CBF levelling up. But anything else would be utterly disgusting and probably make me quit.PS4 - Europe - Aldmeri Dominion0 -
MajesticHaruki✭✭✭✭✭They should exist. It promotes drama and increases the sales of popcorn.PC/EU @MajThorax Sorcerer and Housing Decorator prodigy
In my spare time I collect materials and run away from mudcrabs2 -
Cortanacamo✭✭✭None of the Crown Store is p2w anyways. Just because Jimmy can have additional character slots, xp bonuses, can speed up his research time on crafting, all of the DLC, some cosmetics, mounts, more crafting styles, and non-combat pets, does not make it 'pay to win'.
Here are some 'P2W' scenarios I made up:
"Jimmy has the Maw skin, since it's from Thieves Guild DLC it's obviously p2w."
"WTF, Jimmy has like more than eight toons and they're all maxed out with crafting and all!? He obviously paid for that."
"Ugh Jimmy is running Julianos and that's from Orsinium, p2w again -.-"
"Jimmy is on his newer toon, he has the full crafted Hlaalu set! Wait it's in the Crown Store?! P2W!!"
"OMG Jimmy has the new flame mount, the new Khajiit costume, AND the sparkling pony pet?! Where does he get the money to afford all of this p2w stuff!? Probably from his mum's credit card."
Yes, poor Jimmy is the victim, always has been.1 -
Hanokihs✭✭✭✭✭There will never be a consensus on exactly what is or what isn't pay-to-win.
Which is weird, because you'd think the definition would be exactly what it says on the tin. Apparently, we all live in a world where words don't actually mean anything."I haven't really played much yet, but lemme tell you all about how the game should include X and be a lot more like Y!" - Half the posters on this forum."I've been here for years, and lemme tell you all about how they should never change or evolve Z, because then the game would be ruined forever." - The other half of posters on this forum.2 -
Algraxa✭✭✭
Side effect of the 'gold star' world we are living in.... You get a gold star, and You get a gold star...WE ALL GET A GOLD STAR!
Special snowflakes that define the world as they feel it applies to them rather than the way it actually is.
i.e. I want to be spacial, but because I am not, I get triggered over someone who has something I do not have... because I deserve the gold star!1 -
Slick_007✭✭✭✭✭
✭notimetocare wrote: »This is one of the dumbest questions in a long time... Not actually trying to be mean to you OP but yea... Very dumb question
[Snip]. i cant even work out the point of asking this.
[Edited to remove baiting]Edited by ZOS_KatP on April 7, 2018 8:36PM0 -
DaveMoeDee✭✭✭✭✭
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No, we live in a world of nuance and complexity where the naive assume language is straightforward.
P2W's meaning isn't based solely on the words. It is based more on the history of the term. Pay gates like vMA would be literal P2W, but aren't usually considered P2W. What is considered P2W is power levels correlating to spending where big spenders can reach power levels medium spenders can't, for example.
Communication is complicated.2 -
Valen_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Warden is already pay to win. Jewelry crafting is the next pay to win to be locked behind a pay wall. F it, just go full p2w in the crown store and get it over with.***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
GM of BYTE
MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn0 -
Leandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I opened this thread now 3 or 4 times and read through it.
I still have zero clue tf I read. Even after the fourth time.
This combination of letters, while actually forming readable words, does not make sense at all.Edited by Leandor on April 7, 2018 4:17PM0 -
Valen_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Asking if pay to win should be allowed is like asking if rude noises should be allowed in a movie theater. Everyone will agree that no, obviously, they should not.
Then the woman with the toddler says that her kid isn’t making rude noises, just incidental noises.
The guy whose popcorn consumption sounds like a construction site says he’s just eating popcorn.
The person checking their phone messages will say they’re doing so quietly and respectfully.
The guy eating human flesh in the back row will say...you know what? It doesn’t matter. He’s going to jail, because that is cannibalism, and cannibalism is wrong regardless how noisy it is.
The point is that noise in the theater and pay to win products are in the eye of the beholder, so the premise of the question is flawed.
When Warden became Meta, it also became p2w because its locked behind a pay wall. Literally the definition of p2w.***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
GM of BYTE
MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn0 -
Danikat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭DaveMoeDee wrote: »
No, we live in a world of nuance and complexity where the naive assume language is straightforward.
P2W's meaning isn't based solely on the words. It is based more on the history of the term. Pay gates like vMA would be literal P2W, but aren't usually considered P2W. What is considered P2W is power levels correlating to spending where big spenders can reach power levels medium spenders can't, for example.
Communication is complicated.
Agreed.
In most MMORPGs the first problem is how you define winning. Even in PvP it's not always straight-forward and in PvE it's even harder. If everyone is able to complete content does it matter if one person does it faster or more easily? Have they really won anything?
Sure it's easy to give extreme examples like "if the best weapon you can get in-game does 100 damage, but for $150 you can buy one that does 1000 damage then it's pay to win" but like the language issue we often find that in practice it's more nuanced and complicated than that.
If you can get a weapon that does 1000 damage in game, but it drops from 1 boss with a 0.01% drop chance, or you can buy it does that still make it pay to win? What if you can't buy it directly but it comes from a loot box and is rumoured to have roughly the same drop rate? (So all that changes is you don't have to reach and fight the boss to get your chance.)
Even in the first example some people will insist that doing 10x as much damage doesn't let you win anything.
What if it's not an item but a skill line or a class? What if the difference is more subtle than doing 10x as much damage? Some people say the warden class is pay to win, others claim it's under-powered or just boring and therefore 'no one' uses it (which makes me wonder where all the bears in towns are coming from). Some people say it must be underpowered because even being equal to base game classes makes it pay to win.
And so on.
I think most people understand the concept of pay-to-win and can probably agree on some of the more egregious examples but with more subtle things the debates can (and do) go on indefinitely because everyone has their own idea of where to draw the line and their own issues and experiences with the pros and cons of different items/skills etc.Edited by Danikat on April 7, 2018 4:35PMPC EU player | She/her/hers | PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!
"Remember in this game we call life that no one said it's fair"1 -
redspecter23✭✭✭✭✭
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The "pay" part is obvious. The "win" part isn't so clear. How any person wins a game depends on their playstyle. If someone enjoys collecting every pet in the game then for them every pet in the crown store is pay to win. And that person isn't wrong for thinking that. It's their own decision how they define winning.
I personally really enjoy doing daily writs and do it on 15 characters. From my point of view, extra character slots are pay to win. They allow me to win more at the thing I enjoy doing in game. It gives me easier access to anniversary boxes as well which for me also feels like winning. Most people would say that character slots aren't pay to win and that's fine, but for me they are very much pay to win and I'm ok with that.1 -
BloodWolfe✭✭✭✭Valen_Byte wrote: »Warden is already pay to win. Jewelry crafting is the next pay to win to be locked behind a pay wall. F it, just go full p2w in the crown store and get it over with.
Neither is P2W! EVERY MMO introduces new classes, crafts or races with expansions which does NOT make it P2W!
Warden isn't superior to any other class so it's not P2W!
Jewelcrafting makes BoE's players can sell so those who avoid Summerset can still get the same gear!
Get over yourself! Just because you're too cheap to pay for extra content that has been made does not mean it's P2W! If it was just a zone nobody would buy it so they add extras. EVERY MMO INTRODUCES NEW CLASSES/RACES/CRAFTING PROFESSIONS WITH EXPANSIONS... IT'S NOT P2W!!1 -
Perwulf✭✭✭✭✭This happened to a lot of multiplayer games specially the MMOs, it is the cancer of gaming nowadays where there's no cure, only death. Many of them started as premium benefits via paying real money then came the deceptive lootboxes. However in ESO we are still not there and the more accurate term would be P2A Pay-To-Advance and no, it shouldn't be in crownstore however it is understandable since they need to somehow find a way to earn money and maintain the game. My only concern is that the more we head into the future the more ESO is starting to get casualized, and this is bad news because the finish line is always pay-to-win.
"Monsters doesn't exist, we create them"1 -
DBZVelena✭✭✭✭✭OP should have given their poll more options.
like: I duno, dont care.
Or: I'm fine with the current set up, but prefer they not add more [insert preference in post]
Mostly because you mention skill lines to be p2w. and i'm sorry but i dont consider the Vamp and Werewolf skill lines as p2w. Specially since there is a non-gems way of getting the skill lines also. Its a convenience, for those that want the skill line but dont know anybody who is willing to give their chosen character the bite.
What i do consider p2w are the consumables you can use to add more dps on top of your already maxed out character.
Those i am not a fan of. Not a fan of consumables in general but to each their own. But when gemshop consumables are stronger than what you can craft in game. thats where i draw the line.
EXP boost however i dont mind at all. I can totally understand why you wouldn't want to spend X number of hours to level up your alt. For that same reason, selling max level boosts are fine too. You still need to get all those skyshards anyway.
The diff between something being p2w and being a convenience imo is if it affects another player if you have it and they dont.
An exp boost? Nope doesnt effect them. stronger consumables making them do more dps and so getting the loot faster? deff affects other players.
Costumes? Nope.
Horsey with pretty skin: hell no. you still have to spend in game gold to up the horse skills.
horse skill consumables: no because theres an in game gold only alternative.
Of course all of this are my personal opinion and so can not be taken as fact.What are Natch Potes? Can you eat those?
I believe in Genie-Gina.0 -
Rianai✭✭✭✭✭
✭BloodWolfe wrote: »EVERY MMO INTRODUCES NEW CLASSES/RACES/CRAFTING PROFESSIONS WITH EXPANSIONS... IT'S NOT P2W!!
That's not a logic argument.
If every MMO does it ... it could also mean that every MMO has some P2W aspects.
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Anotherone773✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭People try to twist pay 2 win to mean what they want it to mean to fit their argument.New classes, gear, areas, etc as part of a paid expansion is not pay to win. It has been standard industry practice for 10-15 years. It was not pay to win 10 years ago and its not pay to win today.
Pay to win means that paying gives a significant advantage. It means if you dont open your wallet, you are at a severe disadvantage to those that do. Its meant to put you, the free player, at such a disadvantage, you buy in out of frustration to be able to compete on an even playing field with other players.
An expansion has never been considered pay to win in any game by the players. That is an absolutely ridiculous argument that all future content should be free in an game that you dont have to sub to play or that the game should give new aspects for free because you dont want to pay for it.
No, pay to win requires constant donations in order to maintain a competitive edge not a once a year xpack price. Pay to win is far far more expensive than a sub game to play usually by at least 10 times more expensive than the average sub JUST TO STAY COMPETITIVE.
You want to see what pay to win really looks like, play game of war on android. For computers, all games by Bigpoint.com are pay to win to games. Kabam( defunct now) also had pay to win games. Aeriagames.com also all pay to win games. These games all have one thing in common. They are designed so that in order to compete you have to constantly donate money to them on a weekly/monthly basis. If you stop donating money you get behind, you run out of premium elite ammo and get slaughtered, etc. You immediately lose your edge to compete when you stop paying in.
THOSE are pay to win games. This game isnt even close to pay to win. Nor should it be.Edited by Anotherone773 on April 9, 2018 1:36PM0 -
Ley✭✭✭✭✭
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Leylith - MagSorc | Leyloth - StamPlar | Leynerd - MagPlar | Leylit - StamBlade | Ley Eviticus - StamDK | Leydor - MagDen | Leylum - StamSorc | Leylux - MagBlade0 -
Lunaugh✭✭✭The first step in defining a concept that is used in a population is to identify the various iterations and preconceptions that exist in the community. I tire of seeing random P2W topics, it isn’t a form of argument that will get the attention of developers. I bring up this concept, not to troll, but to enlighten. Considering what is represented here, I feel saying arguments and topics based on whether or not something in the Crownstore is P2W is a waste of a moderators time is not a far cry from reality.
Consenus in the two P2W threads I’ve created shows we trust ZOS not to cross the extreme boundaries that qualify P2W (as defined by the majority in these posts). Trust that ZOS will not shank you with P2W and don’t bring it up as an actionable item for ‘making free’.Edited by Lunaugh on April 9, 2018 4:31PMdataOutput ={ }
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end0 -
Merlin13KAGL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The first step in defining a concept that is used in a population is to identify the various iterations and preconceptions that exist in the community. I tire of seeing random P2W topics, it isn’t a form of argument that will get the attention of developers- Tires of seeing P2W topics.
- Makes P2W topic.
Fixed it for you.. I bring up this concept, not to troll, but to enlighten. Considering what is represented here, I feel saying arguments and topics based on whether or not something in the Crownstore is P2W is a waste of a moderators time is not a far cry from reality.
Consenus in the two P2W threads I’ve created shows we trust ZOS not to cross the extreme boundaries that qualify P2W (as defined by the majority in these posts). Trust that ZOS will not shank you with P2W and don’t bring it up as an actionable item for ‘making free’.
Just because you don't like the way something is doesn't necessarily make it wrong...
Earn it.
IRL'ing for a while for assorted reasons, in forum, and in game.I am neither warm, nor fuzzy...
Probably has checkbox on Customer Service profile that say High Aggro, 99% immunity to BS0 -
Lunaugh✭✭✭Ah, now it's not TL;DR. Thank you Merlin.dataOutput ={ }
function: ConvertMagica (dataOutput, magicaInput, skill,fn)
>>> if skill then do
>>>>>> magicaInput = fn(skill)
>>>>>>table.insert(dataOutput, magicaInput)
>>>end
end0
