Maintenance for the week of April 15:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 15
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 15
• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – April 16, 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
In response to the ongoing issue, the North American PC/Mac megaserver is currently unavailable while we perform maintenance. https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656543/temporarily-taking-down-the-pts-the-pc-na-live-server
Slayer of ESO's Economy - We need you ZOS!
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srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Peekachu99 wrote: »
Eso's current trading system is exactly like real life buying and selling before the internet.
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that people go to defend this atrocious player trading system.
Here's fun fact.
To some people here Global AH might be atrocious, and the Guild Trader system perfect.
Yeah, I guess if you like having to rely on player made addons or asking another player for permission to sell your stuff. Then I guess it’s the greatest thing in the world.3 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Peekachu99 wrote: »
Eso's current trading system is exactly like real life buying and selling before the internet.
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that people go to defend this atrocious player trading system.
Here's fun fact.
To some people here Global AH might be atrocious, and the Guild Trader system perfect.
Yeah, I guess if you like having to rely on player made addons or asking another player for permission to sell your stuff. Then I guess it’s the greatest thing in the world.
This adds more depth to the game. And after some time using MM and TTC you just know most of things without using them.
Btw.
NAH is addon too.0 -
generalmyrick✭✭✭✭✭
✭jesus, i'd pay 10000 crowns for that on ps4!"The red pill and its opposite, the blue pill, are a popular cultural meme, a metaphor representing the choice between:
Knowledge, freedom, uncertainty and the brutal truths of reality (red pill)
Security, happiness, beauty, and the blissful ignorance of illusion (blue pill)"
Insight to Agree to Awesome Ratio = 1:6.04:2.76 as of 1/25/2019
Compared to people that I've ignored = I am 18% more insightful, 20% less agreeable, and 88% more awesome.2 -
srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Peekachu99 wrote: »Peekachu99 wrote: »
Eso's current trading system is exactly like real life buying and selling before the internet.
It never ceases to amaze me the lengths that people go to defend this atrocious player trading system.
Here's fun fact.
To some people here Global AH might be atrocious, and the Guild Trader system perfect.
Yeah, I guess if you like having to rely on player made addons or asking another player for permission to sell your stuff. Then I guess it’s the greatest thing in the world.
This adds more depth to the game. And after some time using MM and TTC you just know most of things without using them.
Btw.
NAH is addon too.
Whether or not it adds “depth” or just more steps is highly subjective.
Yes, I’m aware NAH is an addon.1 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.4 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.0 -
Guarlet✭✭✭✭✭The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
PS4 NA it’s so bad that these Guilds are spending millions of gold on 15-20 ghost traders a week to flip or just knock out competition.
PLAIN and SIMPLE
Hardly. I'm just a plain old, regular member of a trading guild that sells an average amount of stuff each week and gets by completely fine with the current system. My only real gripe is the lack of a search function. Aside from that, the guild trader system has always worked quite well for me as both a buyer and a seller.
As for your second point: gold sinks in MMO are good. It helps keep down inflation, which is a rampant problem in too many MMOs I've played that don't have near-enough effective gold sinks. Can't really put it any simpler than that.AKA The Goblinator, PC/EU2 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
PS4 NA it’s so bad that these Guilds are spending millions of gold on 15-20 ghost traders a week to flip or just knock out competition.
PLAIN and SIMPLE
Hardly. I'm just a plain old, regular member of a trading guild that sells an average amount of stuff each week and gets by completely fine with the current system. My only real gripe is the lack of a search function. Aside from that, the guild trader system has always worked quite well for me as both a buyer and a seller.
As for your second point: gold sinks in MMO are good. It helps keep down inflation, which is a rampant problem in too many MMOs I've played that don't have near-enough effective gold sinks. Can't really put it any simpler than that.
Search function would be nice, yeah.0 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
You have a misconception about how operating trading guild works. Most GMs struggle a great deal to come up with the trader bid each week.
It costs millions of gold for the top spots and we have to do all kinds of activities - auctions, raffles, farming events etc, to try to raise that enormous sum every week. Rather than getting "filthy rich," we go broke spending our own gold to buy raffle prizes and often the raffle doesn't even raise enough to cover bid, so we pay the difference as well.
4 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
PS4 NA it’s so bad that these Guilds are spending millions of gold on 15-20 ghost traders a week to flip or just knock out competition.
PLAIN and SIMPLE
Hardly. I'm just a plain old, regular member of a trading guild that sells an average amount of stuff each week and gets by completely fine with the current system. My only real gripe is the lack of a search function. Aside from that, the guild trader system has always worked quite well for me as both a buyer and a seller.
As for your second point: gold sinks in MMO are good. It helps keep down inflation, which is a rampant problem in too many MMOs I've played that don't have near-enough effective gold sinks. Can't really put it any simpler than that.
who sayed AH must be without any taxes? in some mmo's yes, global AH are without taxes but in overal system in those games is different while in game like ESO just look at wow, gw2 etc, here in globa AH we have taxes for listing items so who sayed it wont be in ESO if it could be?0 -
Guarlet✭✭✭✭✭The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
PS4 NA it’s so bad that these Guilds are spending millions of gold on 15-20 ghost traders a week to flip or just knock out competition.
PLAIN and SIMPLE
Hardly. I'm just a plain old, regular member of a trading guild that sells an average amount of stuff each week and gets by completely fine with the current system. My only real gripe is the lack of a search function. Aside from that, the guild trader system has always worked quite well for me as both a buyer and a seller.
As for your second point: gold sinks in MMO are good. It helps keep down inflation, which is a rampant problem in too many MMOs I've played that don't have near-enough effective gold sinks. Can't really put it any simpler than that.
who sayed AH must be without any taxes? in some mmo's yes, global AH are without taxes but in overal system in those games is different while in game like ESO just look at wow, gw2 etc, here in globa AH we have taxes for listing items so who sayed it wont be in ESO if it could be?
...Did you reply to the wrong person? I didn't say anything at all about taxes. In terms of a gold sink, I was referring to the practice of spending millions securing trading spots each week. You don't get that type of gold sinkage each week through a small tax alone.AKA The Goblinator, PC/EU0 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.
And, that is your opinion. The problem in your assumption is that the ones who hate the current system have either A: quit the game; B: Gotten used to it, and still grumble, but because they’ve been completely beaten down about it, just gave up; or C: made mods that become wildly popular, enough that people think they need to post about it as potential ‘slayers’ of the economy.
I respond to comment thusly: the change would generate far more applause than not changing it.
Every poll I have seen on the topic returns roughly a 50/50 response on people liking or not liking the idea. So, basically, ZOS is p***ing off half the player base while making the other half happy. The difference? A lot of people quit games over extreme hassles that shouldn’t exist. I have yet to hear of any real amount of players quitting a game over basic common conveniences in every major MMO since 2003-2004.
They would lose far fewer players by changing, and might actually get some that left to return, just by changing that one thing. But, perspectives differ, I understand. For my part, I ignore the entire system, craft my own stuff, etc. I only have so many hours to play, and refuse to spend the entirety of them ransacking traders to find a single item, to me, the system is absolutely ridiculous, with no redeeming qualities at all. Doesn’t make any sense, not from a fictional or factual/historical standpoint, and only caters to those who like to rip others off.
Hence the complaint in the first posts that it ruins the economy because it allows people to *gasp* *whispers* find cheap prices!!
Oh dear! What will we do when there is actual REAL price competition!3 -
Edziu✭✭✭✭✭
✭The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
PS4 NA it’s so bad that these Guilds are spending millions of gold on 15-20 ghost traders a week to flip or just knock out competition.
PLAIN and SIMPLE
Hardly. I'm just a plain old, regular member of a trading guild that sells an average amount of stuff each week and gets by completely fine with the current system. My only real gripe is the lack of a search function. Aside from that, the guild trader system has always worked quite well for me as both a buyer and a seller.
As for your second point: gold sinks in MMO are good. It helps keep down inflation, which is a rampant problem in too many MMOs I've played that don't have near-enough effective gold sinks. Can't really put it any simpler than that.
who sayed AH must be without any taxes? in some mmo's yes, global AH are without taxes but in overal system in those games is different while in game like ESO just look at wow, gw2 etc, here in globa AH we have taxes for listing items so who sayed it wont be in ESO if it could be?
...Did you reply to the wrong person? I didn't say anything at all about taxes. In terms of a gold sink, I was referring to the practice of spending millions securing trading spots each week. You don't get that type of gold sinkage each week through a small tax alone.
from guild tax part is goign to guild bank and other part just dissaper as gold sink, from this 1 part gold going to bank leaders have gold for upkeep their trader and still have more for self from those taxes
now think if will be AH, same tax but now nothing is going to bank but everything dissaper as gold sink, do you see difference? becasue I see it could be even better gold sink because more money will be "lost" through this system and guild leaders wont have hundrets of milions gold for selfs just for being on of the best gtrade guild leaders1 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.
And, that is your opinion. The problem in your assumption is that the ones who hate the current system have either A: quit the game; B: Gotten used to it, and still grumble, but because they’ve been completely beaten down about it, just gave up; or C: made mods that become wildly popular, enough that people think they need to post about it as potential ‘slayers’ of the economy.
I respond to comment thusly: the change would generate far more applause than not changing it.
Every poll I have seen on the topic returns roughly a 50/50 response on people liking or not liking the idea. So, basically, ZOS is p***ing off half the player base while making the other half happy. The difference? A lot of people quit games over extreme hassles that shouldn’t exist. I have yet to hear of any real amount of players quitting a game over basic common conveniences in every major MMO since 2003-2004.
They would lose far fewer players by changing, and might actually get some that left to return, just by changing that one thing. But, perspectives differ, I understand. For my part, I ignore the entire system, craft my own stuff, etc. I only have so many hours to play, and refuse to spend the entirety of them ransacking traders to find a single item, to me, the system is absolutely ridiculous, with no redeeming qualities at all. Doesn’t make any sense, not from a fictional or factual/historical standpoint, and only caters to those who like to rip others off.
Hence the complaint in the first posts that it ruins the economy because it allows people to *gasp* *whispers* find cheap prices!!
Oh dear! What will we do when there is actual REAL price competition!
Sudden change hurts much more than not getting it.0 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.
And, that is your opinion. The problem in your assumption is that the ones who hate the current system have either A: quit the game; B: Gotten used to it, and still grumble, but because they’ve been completely beaten down about it, just gave up; or C: made mods that become wildly popular, enough that people think they need to post about it as potential ‘slayers’ of the economy.
I respond to comment thusly: the change would generate far more applause than not changing it.
Every poll I have seen on the topic returns roughly a 50/50 response on people liking or not liking the idea. So, basically, ZOS is p***ing off half the player base while making the other half happy. The difference? A lot of people quit games over extreme hassles that shouldn’t exist. I have yet to hear of any real amount of players quitting a game over basic common conveniences in every major MMO since 2003-2004.
They would lose far fewer players by changing, and might actually get some that left to return, just by changing that one thing. But, perspectives differ, I understand. For my part, I ignore the entire system, craft my own stuff, etc. I only have so many hours to play, and refuse to spend the entirety of them ransacking traders to find a single item, to me, the system is absolutely ridiculous, with no redeeming qualities at all. Doesn’t make any sense, not from a fictional or factual/historical standpoint, and only caters to those who like to rip others off.
Hence the complaint in the first posts that it ruins the economy because it allows people to *gasp* *whispers* find cheap prices!!
Oh dear! What will we do when there is actual REAL price competition!
Sudden change hurts much more than not getting it.
Only sometimes. Not always. Yes, suddenly going from full life to 0 is extremely bad. But, having some disease, or bad effect and getting cured, would be the exact opposite. I see this as a cure for an exceedingly insidious disease that brings nothing good from having it, and actually hurts more and more the longer it remains.2 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.
And, that is your opinion. The problem in your assumption is that the ones who hate the current system have either A: quit the game; B: Gotten used to it, and still grumble, but because they’ve been completely beaten down about it, just gave up; or C: made mods that become wildly popular, enough that people think they need to post about it as potential ‘slayers’ of the economy.
I respond to comment thusly: the change would generate far more applause than not changing it.
Every poll I have seen on the topic returns roughly a 50/50 response on people liking or not liking the idea. So, basically, ZOS is p***ing off half the player base while making the other half happy. The difference? A lot of people quit games over extreme hassles that shouldn’t exist. I have yet to hear of any real amount of players quitting a game over basic common conveniences in every major MMO since 2003-2004.
They would lose far fewer players by changing, and might actually get some that left to return, just by changing that one thing. But, perspectives differ, I understand. For my part, I ignore the entire system, craft my own stuff, etc. I only have so many hours to play, and refuse to spend the entirety of them ransacking traders to find a single item, to me, the system is absolutely ridiculous, with no redeeming qualities at all. Doesn’t make any sense, not from a fictional or factual/historical standpoint, and only caters to those who like to rip others off.
Hence the complaint in the first posts that it ruins the economy because it allows people to *gasp* *whispers* find cheap prices!!
Oh dear! What will we do when there is actual REAL price competition!
Sudden change hurts much more than not getting it.
Only sometimes. Not always. Yes, suddenly going from full life to 0 is extremely bad. But, having some disease, or bad effect and getting cured, would be the exact opposite. I see this as a cure for an exceedingly insidious disease that brings nothing good from having it, and actually hurts more and more the longer it remains.
Sadly, what hurts some people is good for others. Staying with this option is better for ZOS - less money spent.0 -
Avalon✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.
And, that is your opinion. The problem in your assumption is that the ones who hate the current system have either A: quit the game; B: Gotten used to it, and still grumble, but because they’ve been completely beaten down about it, just gave up; or C: made mods that become wildly popular, enough that people think they need to post about it as potential ‘slayers’ of the economy.
I respond to comment thusly: the change would generate far more applause than not changing it.
Every poll I have seen on the topic returns roughly a 50/50 response on people liking or not liking the idea. So, basically, ZOS is p***ing off half the player base while making the other half happy. The difference? A lot of people quit games over extreme hassles that shouldn’t exist. I have yet to hear of any real amount of players quitting a game over basic common conveniences in every major MMO since 2003-2004.
They would lose far fewer players by changing, and might actually get some that left to return, just by changing that one thing. But, perspectives differ, I understand. For my part, I ignore the entire system, craft my own stuff, etc. I only have so many hours to play, and refuse to spend the entirety of them ransacking traders to find a single item, to me, the system is absolutely ridiculous, with no redeeming qualities at all. Doesn’t make any sense, not from a fictional or factual/historical standpoint, and only caters to those who like to rip others off.
Hence the complaint in the first posts that it ruins the economy because it allows people to *gasp* *whispers* find cheap prices!!
Oh dear! What will we do when there is actual REAL price competition!
Sudden change hurts much more than not getting it.
Only sometimes. Not always. Yes, suddenly going from full life to 0 is extremely bad. But, having some disease, or bad effect and getting cured, would be the exact opposite. I see this as a cure for an exceedingly insidious disease that brings nothing good from having it, and actually hurts more and more the longer it remains.
Sadly, what hurts some people is good for others. Staying with this option is better for ZOS - less money spent.
What’s really sad is that you can visually see so many players constantly complaining about this system, can see how it has driven a lot away... and, yet, still hold that because you like it, it should stay. ZOS is going to spend money, no matter what they work on - it won’t save money. It might bring players back - ZOS gets more money. If it drives anyone away - those people are being childish, since every MMO has a universal AH anymore, it’s dumb to NOT have one. Plus, it’s kind of selfish to see all of these people constantly begging for it, yet be only concerned for your own enjoyment, over the masses.
You could argue that we are selfish, but numbers don’t lie. As time has passed, the polls have gone from 20s to over 50% in support of a universal AH system, and the mods are picking up many more downloads than before. It’s time to start considering that you are in the minority, that for the majority of players to enjoy the game more, without losing anyone, maybe even pulling some back in, things need to change.5 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.
And, that is your opinion. The problem in your assumption is that the ones who hate the current system have either A: quit the game; B: Gotten used to it, and still grumble, but because they’ve been completely beaten down about it, just gave up; or C: made mods that become wildly popular, enough that people think they need to post about it as potential ‘slayers’ of the economy.
I respond to comment thusly: the change would generate far more applause than not changing it.
Every poll I have seen on the topic returns roughly a 50/50 response on people liking or not liking the idea. So, basically, ZOS is p***ing off half the player base while making the other half happy. The difference? A lot of people quit games over extreme hassles that shouldn’t exist. I have yet to hear of any real amount of players quitting a game over basic common conveniences in every major MMO since 2003-2004.
They would lose far fewer players by changing, and might actually get some that left to return, just by changing that one thing. But, perspectives differ, I understand. For my part, I ignore the entire system, craft my own stuff, etc. I only have so many hours to play, and refuse to spend the entirety of them ransacking traders to find a single item, to me, the system is absolutely ridiculous, with no redeeming qualities at all. Doesn’t make any sense, not from a fictional or factual/historical standpoint, and only caters to those who like to rip others off.
Hence the complaint in the first posts that it ruins the economy because it allows people to *gasp* *whispers* find cheap prices!!
Oh dear! What will we do when there is actual REAL price competition!
Sudden change hurts much more than not getting it.
Only sometimes. Not always. Yes, suddenly going from full life to 0 is extremely bad. But, having some disease, or bad effect and getting cured, would be the exact opposite. I see this as a cure for an exceedingly insidious disease that brings nothing good from having it, and actually hurts more and more the longer it remains.
Sadly, what hurts some people is good for others. Staying with this option is better for ZOS - less money spent.
What’s really sad is that you can visually see so many players constantly complaining about this system, can see how it has driven a lot away... and, yet, still hold that because you like it, it should stay. ZOS is going to spend money, no matter what they work on - it won’t save money. It might bring players back - ZOS gets more money. If it drives anyone away - those people are being childish, since every MMO has a universal AH anymore, it’s dumb to NOT have one. Plus, it’s kind of selfish to see all of these people constantly begging for it, yet be only concerned for your own enjoyment, over the masses.
You could argue that we are selfish, but numbers don’t lie. As time has passed, the polls have gone from 20s to over 50% in support of a universal AH system, and the mods are picking up many more downloads than before. It’s time to start considering that you are in the minority, that for the majority of players to enjoy the game more, without losing anyone, maybe even pulling some back in, things need to change.
And % in polls for global AH falls, so people who prefer traders are majority. I'm not such a person to change my view even if I'm in minority, I will defend my opinion.1 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
If so, that will simply serve to demonstrate the extent of the rejection of the present dysfunctional system that only benefits the few guilds that have it cornered whether individually or working together. I can see why they would be upset.
Personally I wouldn't use this new system any more than I do the present system as I have no interest in either guilds or addons of any kind. However, if the new system proves as popular as you fear then ZOS should take note of that and do something about improving the present system so that all players across all platforms can participate in a proper trading system without dependence on guild membership or addons.4 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭
If so, that will simply serve to demonstrate the extent of the rejection of the present dysfunctional system that only benefits the few guilds that have it cornered whether individually or working together. I can see why they would be upset.
Personally I wouldn't use this new system any more than I do the present system as I have no interest in either guilds or addons of any kind. However, if the new system proves as popular as you fear then ZOS should take note of that and do something about improving the present system so that all players across all platforms can participate in a proper trading system without dependence on guild membership or addons.
Of course it won't be more popular than base game trading, however it can be some kind of corruption that will make trading in base game harder.0 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
You have a misconception about how operating trading guild works. Most GMs struggle a great deal to come up with the trader bid each week.
It costs millions of gold for the top spots and we have to do all kinds of activities - auctions, raffles, farming events etc, to try to raise that enormous sum every week. Rather than getting "filthy rich," we go broke spending our own gold to buy raffle prizes and often the raffle doesn't even raise enough to cover bid, so we pay the difference as well.
I don't doubt that a lot of work and personal sacrifice goes into running trading guilds, which is one of the negative aspects of the present system especially in relation to the absurd trader bids involved. None of that should be required, and the fact that it is demonstrates how dysfunctional the system has become. The fact remains, in any event, that the only players with millions of gold to their name are traders. Being in a successful trading guild is the only way you can accumulate any real gold in this game, and all most of those traders are really doing is swapping stuff around between them at crazy prices. It's a dysfunctional way of running such a core aspect of an MMO as a trading system, and it needs a radical overhaul.5 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
You have a misconception about how operating trading guild works. Most GMs struggle a great deal to come up with the trader bid each week.
It costs millions of gold for the top spots and we have to do all kinds of activities - auctions, raffles, farming events etc, to try to raise that enormous sum every week. Rather than getting "filthy rich," we go broke spending our own gold to buy raffle prizes and often the raffle doesn't even raise enough to cover bid, so we pay the difference as well.
I don't doubt that a lot of work and personal sacrifice goes into running trading guilds, which is one of the negative aspects of the present system especially in relation to the absurd trader bids involved. None of that should be required, and the fact that it is demonstrates how dysfunctional the system has become. The fact remains, in any event, that the only players with millions of gold to their name are traders. Being in a successful trading guild is the only way you can accumulate any real gold in this game, and all most of those traders are really doing is swapping stuff around between them at crazy prices. It's a dysfunctional way of running such a core aspect of an MMO as a trading system, and it needs a radical overhaul.
It provides a bit of a challenge to the game, you cannot get everything served on the silver plater, and that's extacly how trading looks like, selling something for more in other place.1 -
Guarlet✭✭✭✭✭The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
PS4 NA it’s so bad that these Guilds are spending millions of gold on 15-20 ghost traders a week to flip or just knock out competition.
PLAIN and SIMPLE
Hardly. I'm just a plain old, regular member of a trading guild that sells an average amount of stuff each week and gets by completely fine with the current system. My only real gripe is the lack of a search function. Aside from that, the guild trader system has always worked quite well for me as both a buyer and a seller.
As for your second point: gold sinks in MMO are good. It helps keep down inflation, which is a rampant problem in too many MMOs I've played that don't have near-enough effective gold sinks. Can't really put it any simpler than that.
who sayed AH must be without any taxes? in some mmo's yes, global AH are without taxes but in overal system in those games is different while in game like ESO just look at wow, gw2 etc, here in globa AH we have taxes for listing items so who sayed it wont be in ESO if it could be?
...Did you reply to the wrong person? I didn't say anything at all about taxes. In terms of a gold sink, I was referring to the practice of spending millions securing trading spots each week. You don't get that type of gold sinkage each week through a small tax alone.
from guild tax part is goign to guild bank and other part just dissaper as gold sink, from this 1 part gold going to bank leaders have gold for upkeep their trader and still have more for self from those taxes
now think if will be AH, same tax but now nothing is going to bank but everything dissaper as gold sink, do you see difference? becasue I see it could be even better gold sink because more money will be "lost" through this system and guild leaders wont have hundrets of milions gold for selfs just for being on of the best gtrade guild leaders
This post literally hurt my eyes to read.AKA The Goblinator, PC/EU0 -
ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.
It's going to be the same thing as with 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces. I made a comment about it a couple months ago and got a lot of flack for it, much more than support, but now that it's coming, everyone seems to love it. With a global AH it would be the same, I guarantee it.1 -
Radinyn✭✭✭✭✭The link was posted quite a few times on forums. Still, that's the only way how we can destroy this problem.
If the add-on is such a problem, or danger, then it proves the real problem is the system in place currently. If it receives enough ‘clientele’ (not sure what the better word would be here), then it shows how many dislike the way guild traders are. My only regret here, is that console players cannot use it. So, yes, spread this far and wide, tell everyone! Perhaps ZOS will change this horrible concept of guild traders, at least giving us a way to search all at one time, then travel to the trader in question to buy that item. It would still benefit people to have the ‘best’ traders, as location still matters. I could get X for 1000 but have to spend 10 minutes getting it... or X for 2000, and it’s right here in town.
The voices are well spread. Change would generate much more hate than not changing it.
It's going to be the same thing as with 2h weapons counting as 2 set pieces. I made a comment about it a couple months ago and got a lot of flack for it, much more than support, but now that it's coming, everyone seems to love it. With a global AH it would be the same, I guarantee it.
You probably just got beating-dead-horse'ed. With AH it's other thing.0 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭IcyDeadPeople wrote: »The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
You have a misconception about how operating trading guild works. Most GMs struggle a great deal to come up with the trader bid each week.
It costs millions of gold for the top spots and we have to do all kinds of activities - auctions, raffles, farming events etc, to try to raise that enormous sum every week. Rather than getting "filthy rich," we go broke spending our own gold to buy raffle prizes and often the raffle doesn't even raise enough to cover bid, so we pay the difference as well.
I don't doubt that a lot of work and personal sacrifice goes into running trading guilds, which is one of the negative aspects of the present system especially in relation to the absurd trader bids involved. None of that should be required, and the fact that it is demonstrates how dysfunctional the system has become. The fact remains, in any event, that the only players with millions of gold to their name are traders. Being in a successful trading guild is the only way you can accumulate any real gold in this game, and all most of those traders are really doing is swapping stuff around between them at crazy prices. It's a dysfunctional way of running such a core aspect of an MMO as a trading system, and it needs a radical overhaul.
@IcyDeadPeople - I have not found that to be true. Since update 15, when transparency died, it's also impossible to see if its true. The defense has always been that it prevents bid spies, but the only thing you don't have access to through MM or announcements after an auction is deposits.
@Tandor - I am in a bunch of trade guilds, including on different accounts, and most guild officers put significant effort into their trade guild, especially time wise. However, I mostly agree with everything else.
Edited by Wreuntzylla on April 5, 2018 8:57PM0 -
EvilAutoTech✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm not in favor of changing to an auction house. It's not that I think the current system is perfect, or even very good.
The problem I have with the AH is the massive number of listings that it would have to display to a massive number of concurrent users.
The trader has a maximum of 1500 listings. An auction house is likely to have 200 times that at any given time. Maybe more.
I have no idea how many players can see a trader's inventory at a time but with as many traders as there are in the game, I doubt we ever have that many at once.
A server-wide AH might work well in other MMOs but I think that having only six places to buy and sell for the entire player base would cause more problems than it could solve.
A revamped UI with a text search would be a great improvement. I don't know if it should be server-wide or not.
I can just see the frustration of finding something in another zone. A couple of long loading screens, a random DC or two and by the time you get to the trader, that item is sold.
I'm not a GM. I'm not rich in game. Currently I net about 250K per week. I can tell you that I have more in my personal bank on Monday morning than my GM does.
4 -
Tandor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »IcyDeadPeople wrote: »The people who are arguing against are most likely Guild GMs and Officers who are getting filthy rich of its members and Guilds.
You have a misconception about how operating trading guild works. Most GMs struggle a great deal to come up with the trader bid each week.
It costs millions of gold for the top spots and we have to do all kinds of activities - auctions, raffles, farming events etc, to try to raise that enormous sum every week. Rather than getting "filthy rich," we go broke spending our own gold to buy raffle prizes and often the raffle doesn't even raise enough to cover bid, so we pay the difference as well.
I don't doubt that a lot of work and personal sacrifice goes into running trading guilds, which is one of the negative aspects of the present system especially in relation to the absurd trader bids involved. None of that should be required, and the fact that it is demonstrates how dysfunctional the system has become. The fact remains, in any event, that the only players with millions of gold to their name are traders. Being in a successful trading guild is the only way you can accumulate any real gold in this game, and all most of those traders are really doing is swapping stuff around between them at crazy prices. It's a dysfunctional way of running such a core aspect of an MMO as a trading system, and it needs a radical overhaul.
@IcyDeadPeople - I have not found that to be true. Since update 15, when transparency died, it's also impossible to see if its true. The defense has always been that it prevents bid spies, but the only thing you don't have access to through MM or announcements after an auction is deposits.
@Tandor - I am in a bunch of trade guilds, including on different accounts, and most guild officers put significant effort into their trade guild, especially time wise. However, I mostly agree with everything else.
Indeed, I accepted that very point.0
