Waffennacht wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

This will actually make Magwarden DPS much more playable in fights like vMoL twins. If you want a stun, just use clench or reach.

Assume you mean Warden. How exactly does providing a debuff the tank will already use going to increase my Warden's DPS in vMoL twins?

Yes I did mean magwarden, fixed my post. It's not about Major Breach. The stun is a liability in situations where tanks need to be able to chain. And which target gets stunned is not always predictable. Yes it is the closest target, but if that one is CC immune then it finds another. If a light add happens to drop behind the dark boss, it will get stunned, most likely in a void, and can easily cause deaths or a wipe.

To a lesser extent, this also applies to cats on vMoL first boss. Sure, careful positioning or dropping Deep Fissure from the rotation, is a solution (that I've had to use). However, positioning is critical in both of those fights. And dropping the hardest-hitting Warden skill because it messes with mechanics only makes Warden DPS look even worse than it is.

The stun is equally annoying in vDSA, where a delayed burst ability should be great for using before enemies come out of portals. However the stun then makes it so they cannot be chained in, so the best tool in magwarden's burst kit has to be avoided.

I would also prefer if the stun was removed from the Sorc scamp for all these same reasons. Delayed, unpredictable AoE stuns are not helpful in PVE.

Someone gets it.

The stun is like literally the least important part of the ability.

I'm not trying to invalidate anyone's opinions, mine is just the correct one however

Edit: Ron you have never beat me, the warden Combo use is old and outdated, to cling to a subpar combo because it beats scrubs is no reason to keep Warden damage down. I am the better warden player

casparian wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Depends on what they're replacing it with

Major Breach

Is this effecting sub assault? That one already provides breach and fracture. Hope they don't nerf it, that's a staple for warden tanking...

Sub Assault will now only provide fracture.

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was using accelerated Drain so I could land my fissure...

And WTF are you using to take advantage of the stun from fissure? Pulse? You're sad you're losing a follow up Pulse for a powerful d buff?

The stun was at the worst most awkward time for a warden burst. If you had an execute it would be one thing, it's hardly a loss at all

Light attack - fissure - light attack - cliff racer - light attack - force pulse

That's all I needed to kill most players in pvp. It's a massive loss. It's no different than removing the stun from blazing spear or crystal frag. Both were horrible changes and this potential change will be just as bad.

Which all lands at once and kills them right? Meaning the stun had nothing to do with your combos (the oldest combo in the warden book which I stopped using after the first month when most players had it already figured out)

That combo, btw, leaves 3 GCD for your opponent to CC break and heal. Meaning if that combo did not kill your opponent, it never will.

Again good against PuGs where the stun isn't even involved

It all hits at once so there's 0 GCDs to break free. The stun is needed for the players that don't instantly die. The second force pulse (that procs my extra damage from my asylum staff) executes before they can cc break.

Again against a PuG sure, there's no way you're gonna get that kill against the more tanky specs.

I ran that very very very build, wrote the first guide, then wrote the guide with 8.5k birds. I literally wrote the book on Magden, and what you are saying is true against the majority of the player base, which is subpar at PvP.

Against more experienced individuals (such those that know the stun is blockable) are gonna dance around that combo infinitium.

I guarantee you, the difference is gonna be like 1 out of 50 times where that stun would have got you the kill now won't. Sure, but now you get group major fracture.

Waffennacht wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was using accelerated Drain so I could land my fissure...

And WTF are you using to take advantage of the stun from fissure? Pulse? You're sad you're losing a follow up Pulse for a powerful d buff?

The stun was at the worst most awkward time for a warden burst. If you had an execute it would be one thing, it's hardly a loss at all

Light attack - fissure - light attack - cliff racer - light attack - force pulse

That's all I needed to kill most players in pvp. It's a massive loss. It's no different than removing the stun from blazing spear or crystal frag. Both were horrible changes and this potential change will be just as bad.

Which all lands at once and kills them right? Meaning the stun had nothing to do with your combos (the oldest combo in the warden book which I stopped using after the first month when most players had it already figured out)

That combo, btw, leaves 3 GCD for your opponent to CC break and heal. Meaning if that combo did not kill your opponent, it never will.

Again good against PuGs where the stun isn't even involved

It all hits at once so there's 0 GCDs to break free. The stun is needed for the players that don't instantly die. The second force pulse (that procs my extra damage from my asylum staff) executes before they can cc break.

Again against a PuG sure, there's no way you're gonna get that kill against the more tanky specs.

I ran that very very very build, wrote the first guide, then wrote the guide with 8.5k birds. I literally wrote the book on Magden, and what you are saying is true against the majority of the player base, which is subpar at PvP.

Against more experienced individuals (such those that know the stun is blockable) are gonna dance around that combo infinitium.

I guarantee you, the difference is gonna be like 1 out of 50 times where that stun would have got you the kill now won't. Sure, but now you get group major fracture.

lol waffen, I'm sorry to break this for you but when you started playing warden on console I had already run everything back and forth and maximize it's dueling potential. Fought and beaten some of the very best players basically with the rotation that Ron pointed out, swarm into fissure, bird, soul assault or bear proc, if not, force pulse. That's mostly how you play it, because let's be honest here, there aren't really that many skills to play around anyways. Dds wardens have only that thing going on for them, delayed burst. So yeah, removing the stun is truly a terrible, class-breaking change.

Waffen I'm, honestly quite surprised that you don't seem to understand the importance of well timed stun, bread and butter for any build. Suggesting that Accelerated Drain is a possible replacement is honestly pretty ridiculous. Drain is barely a bit more than a deffensive skill, that will just buy you some time to recover as it locks you both, while fissure is a free GCD burst, that also serves as a setup for following damage. Nothing alike really.

You're PC. Ron and I are console, it's FAR harder to land Fissure on console than PC. A point I was reluctant to bring up because it does go against me (lol) but on PC the stun is far more reliable and is a bigger loss.

For console, I feel the stun to be entirely unreliable against an experienced player.

Accelerated drain is absolutely wonderful backbar to swap cancel into say Reach.

For me it goes something like: Fissure cast cancelled into a swap, Drain cancel Reach weave, the fissure and reach land on the CC break GCD. I run a more heavily DoT focused warden (now that flies procs skoria) drain also keeps minor expedition for 20 some seconds, making for one of the fastest characters in game.

So for builds like mine, the stun from fissure is already gone. And on builds like Ron's against say a DK or Templar (or heavy NB) your combo will set them at half at most and they just recover. (Or any build with shield stacking)

Then, there's the fact while setting up a kill, your stun can potentially grant immunity at the worst of times.

That combo is very weak against kiting NBs - something you will see a lot more of.

That build, for example, will be eaten alive by @zParallaxz build @Lexxypwns will dance around your warden all day long. Gessner will tank right through your damage. Every single one of these players know this first hand.

Again, yeah the combo works against the majority of the player base, but you can also beat the majority of the player base spamming pierce armor

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was using accelerated Drain so I could land my fissure...

And WTF are you using to take advantage of the stun from fissure? Pulse? You're sad you're losing a follow up Pulse for a powerful d buff?

The stun was at the worst most awkward time for a warden burst. If you had an execute it would be one thing, it's hardly a loss at all

Light attack - fissure - light attack - cliff racer - light attack - force pulse

That's all I needed to kill most players in pvp. It's a massive loss. It's no different than removing the stun from blazing spear or crystal frag. Both were horrible changes and this potential change will be just as bad.

Which all lands at once and kills them right? Meaning the stun had nothing to do with your combos (the oldest combo in the warden book which I stopped using after the first month when most players had it already figured out)

That combo, btw, leaves 3 GCD for your opponent to CC break and heal. Meaning if that combo did not kill your opponent, it never will.

Again good against PuGs where the stun isn't even involved

It all hits at once so there's 0 GCDs to break free. The stun is needed for the players that don't instantly die. The second force pulse (that procs my extra damage from my asylum staff) executes before they can cc break.

Again against a PuG sure, there's no way you're gonna get that kill against the more tanky specs.

I ran that very very very build, wrote the first guide, then wrote the guide with 8.5k birds. I literally wrote the book on Magden, and what you are saying is true against the majority of the player base, which is subpar at PvP.

Against more experienced individuals (such those that know the stun is blockable) are gonna dance around that combo infinitium.

I guarantee you, the difference is gonna be like 1 out of 50 times where that stun would have got you the kill now won't. Sure, but now you get group major fracture.

lol waffen, I'm sorry to break this for you but when you started playing warden on console I had already run everything back and forth and maximize it's dueling potential. Fought and beaten some of the very best players basically with the rotation that Ron pointed out, swarm into fissure, bird, soul assault or bear proc, if not, force pulse. That's mostly how you play it, because let's be honest here, there aren't really that many skills to play around anyways. Dds wardens have only that thing going on for them, delayed burst. So yeah, removing the stun is truly a terrible, class-breaking change.

Waffen I'm, honestly quite surprised that you don't seem to understand the importance of well timed stun, bread and butter for any build. Suggesting that Accelerated Drain is a possible replacement is honestly pretty ridiculous. Drain is barely a bit more than a deffensive skill, that will just buy you some time to recover as it locks you both, while fissure is a free GCD burst, that also serves as a setup for following damage. Nothing alike really.

You're PC. Ron and I are console, it's FAR harder to land Fissure on console than PC. A point I was reluctant to bring up because it does go against me (lol) but on PC the stun is far more reliable and is a bigger loss.

For console, I feel the stun to be entirely unreliable against an experienced player.

Accelerated drain is absolutely wonderful backbar to swap cancel into say Reach.

For me it goes something like: Fissure cast cancelled into a swap, Drain cancel Reach weave, the fissure and reach land on the CC break GCD. I run a more heavily DoT focused warden (now that flies procs skoria) drain also keeps minor expedition for 20 some seconds, making for one of the fastest characters in game.

So for builds like mine, the stun from fissure is already gone. And on builds like Ron's against say a DK or Templar (or heavy NB) your combo will set them at half at most and they just recover. (Or any build with shield stacking)

Then, there's the fact while setting up a kill, your stun can potentially grant immunity at the worst of times.

That combo is very weak against kiting NBs - something you will see a lot more of.

That build, for example, will be eaten alive by @zParallaxz build @Lexxypwns will dance around your warden all day long. Gessner will tank right through your damage. Every single one of these players know this first hand.

Again, yeah the combo works against the majority of the player base, but you can also beat the majority of the player base spamming pierce armor

I've beat some pretty good players with that combo. You just have to build enough damage to make it work. @Lexxypwns had a front row seat to one of those duels. The key to most duels against a tankier opponent is dropping their health to 75% and then nuking.

And isn't Just a SoB when getting them to 75% gives them immunity for the kill?

Wouldn't you much prefer the debuff and a hard CC tied into something else? (Like maybe a bird or fly morph? Or a passive?)

The build you're using could very much benefit from changes like that right? I'd advocate an adjustment somewhere else and take the benefits of a better fissure.

And make sure to voice your opinions on the PTS assuming it's not closed again.

Minno wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was using accelerated Drain so I could land my fissure...

And WTF are you using to take advantage of the stun from fissure? Pulse? You're sad you're losing a follow up Pulse for a powerful d buff?

The stun was at the worst most awkward time for a warden burst. If you had an execute it would be one thing, it's hardly a loss at all

Light attack - fissure - light attack - cliff racer - light attack - force pulse

That's all I needed to kill most players in pvp. It's a massive loss. It's no different than removing the stun from blazing spear or crystal frag. Both were horrible changes and this potential change will be just as bad.

Which all lands at once and kills them right? Meaning the stun had nothing to do with your combos (the oldest combo in the warden book which I stopped using after the first month when most players had it already figured out)

That combo, btw, leaves 3 GCD for your opponent to CC break and heal. Meaning if that combo did not kill your opponent, it never will.

Again good against PuGs where the stun isn't even involved

It all hits at once so there's 0 GCDs to break free. The stun is needed for the players that don't instantly die. The second force pulse (that procs my extra damage from my asylum staff) executes before they can cc break.

Again against a PuG sure, there's no way you're gonna get that kill against the more tanky specs.

I ran that very very very build, wrote the first guide, then wrote the guide with 8.5k birds. I literally wrote the book on Magden, and what you are saying is true against the majority of the player base, which is subpar at PvP.

Against more experienced individuals (such those that know the stun is blockable) are gonna dance around that combo infinitium.

I guarantee you, the difference is gonna be like 1 out of 50 times where that stun would have got you the kill now won't. Sure, but now you get group major fracture.

lol waffen, I'm sorry to break this for you but when you started playing warden on console I had already run everything back and forth and maximize it's dueling potential. Fought and beaten some of the very best players basically with the rotation that Ron pointed out, swarm into fissure, bird, soul assault or bear proc, if not, force pulse. That's mostly how you play it, because let's be honest here, there aren't really that many skills to play around anyways. Dds wardens have only that thing going on for them, delayed burst. So yeah, removing the stun is truly a terrible, class-breaking change.

Waffen I'm, honestly quite surprised that you don't seem to understand the importance of well timed stun, bread and butter for any build. Suggesting that Accelerated Drain is a possible replacement is honestly pretty ridiculous. Drain is barely a bit more than a deffensive skill, that will just buy you some time to recover as it locks you both, while fissure is a free GCD burst, that also serves as a setup for following damage. Nothing alike really.

You're PC. Ron and I are console, it's FAR harder to land Fissure on console than PC. A point I was reluctant to bring up because it does go against me (lol) but on PC the stun is far more reliable and is a bigger loss.

For console, I feel the stun to be entirely unreliable against an experienced player.

Accelerated drain is absolutely wonderful backbar to swap cancel into say Reach.

For me it goes something like: Fissure cast cancelled into a swap, Drain cancel Reach weave, the fissure and reach land on the CC break GCD. I run a more heavily DoT focused warden (now that flies procs skoria) drain also keeps minor expedition for 20 some seconds, making for one of the fastest characters in game.

So for builds like mine, the stun from fissure is already gone. And on builds like Ron's against say a DK or Templar (or heavy NB) your combo will set them at half at most and they just recover. (Or any build with shield stacking)

Then, there's the fact while setting up a kill, your stun can potentially grant immunity at the worst of times.

That combo is very weak against kiting NBs - something you will see a lot more of.

That build, for example, will be eaten alive by @zParallaxz build @Lexxypwns will dance around your warden all day long. Gessner will tank right through your damage. Every single one of these players know this first hand.

Again, yeah the combo works against the majority of the player base, but you can also beat the majority of the player base spamming pierce armor

I've beat some pretty good players with that combo. You just have to build enough damage to make it work. @Lexxypwns had a front row seat to one of those duels. The key to most duels against a tankier opponent is dropping their health to 75% and then nuking.

And isn't Just a SoB when getting them to 75% gives them immunity for the kill?

Wouldn't you much prefer the debuff and a hard CC tied into something else? (Like maybe a bird or fly morph? Or a passive?)

The build you're using could very much benefit from changes like that right? I'd advocate an adjustment somewhere else and take the benefits of a better fissure.

And make sure to voice your opinions on the PTS assuming it's not closed again.

Sure if I try to one shot someone with that combo, it won't kill them. That's why I weave force pulse and cliff racer to get them into a range where I can burst. Hate to break it to you Waff, but there's more than one way to kill a player on a warden. This is just the most efficient way in open world on an already struggling class.

If you think another cc is coming during the pts, look back at the blazing spear fiasco. @Joy_Division can give you some insight on that.

That was different; the stun was actually a disorient which mechanically made no sense. It was part of spring cleaning, and I guess zos felt Templars didn't need another cc when we have javelin/topling charge with a defensive mechanic that healed us while reflective attacks at the time.

The stun for warden needs to happen. This would be a great chance to push for an unblockable/undodgeable CC for warden on a spell to counter the range of sorcs.

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

This will actually make Magwarden DPS much more playable in fights like vMoL twins. If you want a stun, just use clench or reach.

Assume you mean Warden. How exactly does providing a debuff the tank will already use going to increase my Warden's DPS in vMoL twins?

Yes I did mean magwarden, fixed my post. It's not about Major Breach. The stun is a liability in situations where tanks need to be able to chain. And which target gets stunned is not always predictable. Yes it is the closest target, but if that one is CC immune then it finds another. If a light add happens to drop behind the dark boss, it will get stunned, most likely in a void, and can easily cause deaths or a wipe.

To a lesser extent, this also applies to cats on vMoL first boss. Sure, careful positioning or dropping Deep Fissure from the rotation, is a solution (that I've had to use). However, positioning is critical in both of those fights. And dropping the hardest-hitting Warden skill because it messes with mechanics only makes Warden DPS look even worse than it is.

The stun is equally annoying in vDSA, where a delayed burst ability should be great for using before enemies come out of portals. However the stun then makes it so they cannot be chained in, so the best tool in magwarden's burst kit has to be avoided.

I would also prefer if the stun was removed from the Sorc scamp for all these same reasons. Delayed, unpredictable AoE stuns are not helpful in PVE.

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ron_Burgundy_79 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I was using accelerated Drain so I could land my fissure...

And WTF are you using to take advantage of the stun from fissure? Pulse? You're sad you're losing a follow up Pulse for a powerful d buff?

The stun was at the worst most awkward time for a warden burst. If you had an execute it would be one thing, it's hardly a loss at all

Light attack - fissure - light attack - cliff racer - light attack - force pulse

That's all I needed to kill most players in pvp. It's a massive loss. It's no different than removing the stun from blazing spear or crystal frag. Both were horrible changes and this potential change will be just as bad.

Which all lands at once and kills them right? Meaning the stun had nothing to do with your combos (the oldest combo in the warden book which I stopped using after the first month when most players had it already figured out)

That combo, btw, leaves 3 GCD for your opponent to CC break and heal. Meaning if that combo did not kill your opponent, it never will.

Again good against PuGs where the stun isn't even involved

It all hits at once so there's 0 GCDs to break free. The stun is needed for the players that don't instantly die. The second force pulse (that procs my extra damage from my asylum staff) executes before they can cc break.

Again against a PuG sure, there's no way you're gonna get that kill against the more tanky specs.

I ran that very very very build, wrote the first guide, then wrote the guide with 8.5k birds. I literally wrote the book on Magden, and what you are saying is true against the majority of the player base, which is subpar at PvP.

Against more experienced individuals (such those that know the stun is blockable) are gonna dance around that combo infinitium.

I guarantee you, the difference is gonna be like 1 out of 50 times where that stun would have got you the kill now won't. Sure, but now you get group major fracture.

lol waffen, I'm sorry to break this for you but when you started playing warden on console I had already run everything back and forth and maximize it's dueling potential. Fought and beaten some of the very best players basically with the rotation that Ron pointed out, swarm into fissure, bird, soul assault or bear proc, if not, force pulse. That's mostly how you play it, because let's be honest here, there aren't really that many skills to play around anyways. Dds wardens have only that thing going on for them, delayed burst. So yeah, removing the stun is truly a terrible, class-breaking change.

Waffen I'm, honestly quite surprised that you don't seem to understand the importance of well timed stun, bread and butter for any build. Suggesting that Accelerated Drain is a possible replacement is honestly pretty ridiculous. Drain is barely a bit more than a deffensive skill, that will just buy you some time to recover as it locks you both, while fissure is a free GCD burst, that also serves as a setup for following damage. Nothing alike really.

You're PC. Ron and I are console, it's FAR harder to land Fissure on console than PC. A point I was reluctant to bring up because it does go against me (lol) but on PC the stun is far more reliable and is a bigger loss.

For console, I feel the stun to be entirely unreliable against an experienced player.

Accelerated drain is absolutely wonderful backbar to swap cancel into say Reach.

For me it goes something like: Fissure cast cancelled into a swap, Drain cancel Reach weave, the fissure and reach land on the CC break GCD. I run a more heavily DoT focused warden (now that flies procs skoria) drain also keeps minor expedition for 20 some seconds, making for one of the fastest characters in game.

So for builds like mine, the stun from fissure is already gone. And on builds like Ron's against say a DK or Templar (or heavy NB) your combo will set them at half at most and they just recover. (Or any build with shield stacking)

Then, there's the fact while setting up a kill, your stun can potentially grant immunity at the worst of times.

That combo is very weak against kiting NBs - something you will see a lot more of.

That build, for example, will be eaten alive by @zParallaxz build @Lexxypwns will dance around your warden all day long. Gessner will tank right through your damage. Every single one of these players know this first hand.

Again, yeah the combo works against the majority of the player base, but you can also beat the majority of the player base spamming pierce armor

I've beat some pretty good players with that combo. You just have to build enough damage to make it work. @Lexxypwns had a front row seat to one of those duels. The key to most duels against a tankier opponent is dropping their health to 75% and then nuking.

And isn't Just a SoB when getting them to 75% gives them immunity for the kill?

Wouldn't you much prefer the debuff and a hard CC tied into something else? (Like maybe a bird or fly morph? Or a passive?)

The build you're using could very much benefit from changes like that right? I'd advocate an adjustment somewhere else and take the benefits of a better fissure.

And make sure to voice your opinions on the PTS assuming it's not closed again.

Sure if I try to one shot someone with that combo, it won't kill them. That's why I weave force pulse and cliff racer to get them into a range where I can burst. Hate to break it to you Waff, but there's more than one way to kill a player on a warden. This is just the most efficient way in open world on an already struggling class.

If you think another cc is coming during the pts, look back at the blazing spear fiasco. @Joy_Division can give you some insight on that.

That was different; the stun was actually a disorient which mechanically made no sense. It was part of spring cleaning, and I guess zos felt Templars didn't need another cc when we have javelin/topling charge with a defensive mechanic that healed us while reflective attacks at the time.

The stun for warden needs to happen. This would be a great chance to push for an unblockable/undodgeable CC for warden on a spell to counter the range of sorcs.

Exactly what I feel. This change in a bubble, isolated may look bad for some, but it could be an opportunity to have a much better tool kit. The deep fissure stun was the weakest in game by far - blockable, delayed, position depending, single hit.

I would love for warden to have a stun (why wouldn't I?) But I don't want it tied to fissure

Templars are still waiting for that hard cc. It's been 2 years.

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Apparently, Zos is looking into removing the stun from Deep Fissure. So yeah, is this for real? They want to remove the only stun from the warden's kit? So, ok let me just say that this is, quite literally, the single most stupid change possibly done. Like, isn't there at Zos anyone left that understands the most basic pvp principles, like stuns are just mandatory. There are no replacements, there is no way around it, that's just how this game works. You need stuns to pvp. If you want to pvp you just need stuns. ok?

I imagine that Zos will eventually come around while we test this, and revert the change, but they even considering this a possible change is simply baffling.

Joy_Division wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

This will actually make Magwarden DPS much more playable in fights like vMoL twins. If you want a stun, just use clench or reach.

Assume you mean Warden. How exactly does providing a debuff the tank will already use going to increase my Warden's DPS in vMoL twins?

Yes I did mean magwarden, fixed my post. It's not about Major Breach. The stun is a liability in situations where tanks need to be able to chain. And which target gets stunned is not always predictable. Yes it is the closest target, but if that one is CC immune then it finds another. If a light add happens to drop behind the dark boss, it will get stunned, most likely in a void, and can easily cause deaths or a wipe.

To a lesser extent, this also applies to cats on vMoL first boss. Sure, careful positioning or dropping Deep Fissure from the rotation, is a solution (that I've had to use). However, positioning is critical in both of those fights. And dropping the hardest-hitting Warden skill because it messes with mechanics only makes Warden DPS look even worse than it is.

The stun is equally annoying in vDSA, where a delayed burst ability should be great for using before enemies come out of portals. However the stun then makes it so they cannot be chained in, so the best tool in magwarden's burst kit has to be avoided.

I would also prefer if the stun was removed from the Sorc scamp for all these same reasons. Delayed, unpredictable AoE stuns are not helpful in PVE.

That's not increasing your DPS.

You seem to be suggesting that having a stun is undesirable. Perhaps for perfect comp raids with tanks who know exactly when and where to chain adds, and no untaunted mob runs free among the DPS, perhaps I wouldn't want the stun either.

The last time I consistently ran with a group like that was 2015. For the rest of us PUGs who lose DPS avoiding the various high damaging adds that spawn and for those that PvP, I do not agree with your assessment that a stun is somehow undesirable or is a DPS loss.