I don't know how I feel about this, yet.

On the one hand, Chains was just too good. In a 4-man setting, there was such a huge gap between a DK tank and any other tank, just because of chains. There were other things too, like Talons, Magma Shell, etc., but that chain was just too good. So "robbing" DKs to give other classes a similar tool that isn't restricted to class is pretty decent, I think? Makes other classes that much more viable as tanks. Though I don't think DK is about to be unseated, from a brief glance at the patch notes. Though NB is creeping close, that heal and buff from the new cloak, depending on duration, could be amazing for health tanks.

Thing is, a lot of what we think we know is pretty outdated information. Like that quote from whoever when they said DKs are supposed to "stand their ground" or that DK DoTs are supposed to really hurt and pressure other players? These things are literally years old. Things change. As of last patch, with so many DK abilities just outright dodgeable (Searing Strike, Whip), not to mention still susceptible to purge/cleanse, the ability to pressure took a massive beating.

I'm not saying these changes are good or bad. They're just changes. And pre-PTS changes at that. Remember last year how Sorcs managed to turn a Curse nerf into an outright buff? We can still try something like that when PTS hits. Who knows.

Bashev wrote: »

Another major patch is coming and 2 signature skills from DKs will be not DK's exclusive anymore.
What make me mad is not that the other classes will have access to DKs signature skills but the fact that the new skills that ZoS implement, are always better than what DKs have. ZoS just take the original idea from the DKs skills and improve it.

1) Chains - the new leash will pull, probably 28m range.
2) Green Dragon blood - the new dark cloak way better version of GDB
In the past:
3) Petrify - Rune cage 28m range
4) Choken Talons - Gripping Shards 20% cheaper
5) Reflective Scale (one of the morphs should be absorb and generate ulti) - Shimmering Shield better and cheaper
6) Inferno - Hurricane

ZoS now you just have to take the leap and the whip and DKs will lose all their identity.

1) we dont know yet
2) this skill is absolutely useless for anything then magicka tanking. U wont see any blades using this in PvP anyways.

I think this patch will make Dk good in PvP again - sustain buff of 200reg(realistically 180), longer major mending availible, that ligth attack buff can be used as a spammable (thats atleast what i heard) giving alot more build variety to dks. Removal of snares for mag dk, a mag speedbuff for mag dk, buff on stone giant

IDK how it comes dks are instantly complaining when they got buffed alot while stamplars that completely got ignored arent vocal at all in the forums

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

duendology wrote: »

Adapt... Can you?

It’s not about adapting. It’s about classes that are already underperforming being torn apart; piece by piece. All the while the classes (it’s actually just 1 class in specific) which do need to be looked at remain untouched. It’s disgusting, and extremely disturbing at this point.

Apart from all the buffs to other classes listed by OP were because they were underperforming in the roles which required those.

Also we've only seen one set a pre-patch note changes. We still have to wait for full notes and have a PTS where things normally get changed and tweaked to appease all the drama llama's who rage.

Except remember that DK got massive sustain and utility buffs as well.

StaticWave wrote: »

Bashev wrote: »

Another major patch is coming and 2 signature skills from DKs will be not DK's exclusive anymore.
What make me mad is not that the other classes will have access to DKs signature skills but the fact that the new skills that ZoS implement, are always better than what DKs have. ZoS just take the original idea from the DKs skills and improve it.

1) Chains - the new leash will pull, probably 28m range.
2) Green Dragon blood - the new dark cloak way better version of GDB
In the past:
3) Petrify - Rune cage 28m range
4) Choken Talons - Gripping Shards 20% cheaper
5) Reflective Scale (one of the morphs should be absorb and generate ulti) - Shimmering Shield better and cheaper
6) Inferno - Hurricane

ZoS now you just have to take the leap and the whip and DKs will lose all their identity.

I honestly don't understand these kinds of threads. You Dks are getting 3 huge buffs:

1/ Combustion gives resources back which is a sustain buff.
2/Reflective plate removes snares which is a buff to magdk as well as stamdk because they can now run heavy armor and rally.
3/Fragmented Shield which gives 2s more of major mending. If they don't remove the shield from this morph, then it basically means they brought back Igneous pre-nerf. ALL stamdks will run this morph.

Besides Fragmented Shield, these buffs aren't as great as they seem.

1. Combustion may come at a DPS loss if the passive was changed and not updated. Furthermore, I've read it only procs on application of status effect. I've also read it procs on damaging opponents with a status effect. The difference between the two conditions is very significant.
2. Snare removal is pretty useless in the current meta as pretty much every skill applies a snare. Applying a snare is basically guaranteed in a normal offensive rotation, requiring no extra effort whereas the snare removal is incredibly costly and consumes an attack turn after which you will probably be snared again anyways.

OFC we should really wait and see until the PTS actually drops, but just some clarification points. Overall I think DKs benefit from this patch but not by much and nowhere near enough to make stamDKs competitive in PvP.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

duendology wrote: »

Adapt... Can you?

It’s not about adapting. It’s about classes that are already underperforming being torn apart; piece by piece. All the while the classes (it’s actually just 1 class in specific) which do need to be looked at remain untouched. It’s disgusting, and extremely disturbing at this point.

Funny thing is mNB have been relatively untouched for a long period of time. It eventually made them dumpster tier class from Thieves Guild till Morrowind. When others got nerfed to oblivion they became prominent again. Its funny how mNB's relevance in the meta is dependent on how ZOS buffs or nerfs other classes.

Even with giving other classes the same tanking tools as DK, DK stays tops in tanking.

Every class should have options to play every role, even if not the best, there shouldn't be as huge of gap as there is now and many of these changes are good for the game.

I love my DK, but I'd also like to not feel like I'm playing him b/c the other classes are just gimped versions of my main tank. Every class should have some sort of bursty heal, it's needed in the way tanking is now and every class should have access to basic tools like snares, pulls, etc for controlling a fight - they should just have different ways of working.

I'll still prefer DK chains to using stam on Silver Leash or even the slower Warden pull.

Plus, players out there push for DKs to be solid in DPS and Healing as well. The community can't say they should be as good as others in those roles, but then not allow others to be as good at Tanking.

Dragon's Blood - no, the new Dark Cloak is not better than GDB. The only self burst heal stronger than GDB right now is Sorc Clanny heal (as long as your pet is still alive). A 3 second tick of 33% of your health is not the same as instant spammable heals, the first time my tank has to take the Warriors thousand cuts with healers down, you see the difference between heals from GDB and any heals from Warden, Templar or NB.

I think some changes could still be done to the class to help them in other areas, but let's not exaggerate or make problems where there aren't any, it only distracts from the real fixes needed.

@Bashev
I miss my old flames of oblivion and it's sad everything is being given away to other classes yet we are suppose to be different from others. I really don't understand why players wanna be similar to other classes instead of being unique.

Sounds like a case of a DK that doesnt want to let anyone else tank his content.