Dark Cloak no longer provides stealth, but it does give you a heal [Summserset]

Seraphayel · April 2018

Brrrofski wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Thing is - if you run a Heavy Armour stamBlade in PvP (which a lot of People do. with Troll King on top) a class burst heal that triggers the shadow passives isn't exactly healthy design. That way you don't even need to think between Rally and FM. It's FM all the way. Will need to see how the other changes come along.

Keep in mind it'll be halfed in PvP, so it'll be 16.5% of max health. So the heal will be small on your average 25k health heavy armor build. Plus it will cost Magica, so you won't have a great amount of casts. And you give e up the ability to escape and reset fights as well as bonus stealth damage etc.

I honestly see this as a pve only skill, mainly aimed at tanks. Warden, DKs and sorcs already have a health scaling self heal, just Templars that won't now.

You have 50% more health in PvP, right? So lets calculate:

PvE: 10.000 health - 3.3k heal
PvP: 15.000 health - 2.5k heal

So overall the decrease is 25% instead of 50%. Or did I get something wrong?

jypcy · April 2018

@Seraphayel I believe the pvp health bonus is a flat 5000, not percentage based. So how much this heal is affected depends on both the 5000 extra health and the halved healing amount.
Edit: am bored. Might have where the pvp heal nerf is calculated wrong, though. Or overall calculations, but I think this is right

20k health pve = 6400 heal
20k health pve = 25k health pvp = 8000 heal • .5 healing = 4000 heal
20k health build has a heal in pvp that’s ~37% less effective than in pve

40k health pve = 12800 heal
40k health pve = 45k health pvp = 14400 heal • .5 healing = 7200 heal
40k health build has a heal in pvp that’s ~44% less effective than in pve

Ragnarock41 · April 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Thing is - if you run a Heavy Armour stamBlade in PvP (which a lot of People do. with Troll King on top) a class burst heal that triggers the shadow passives isn't exactly healthy design. That way you don't even need to think between Rally and FM. It's FM all the way. Will need to see how the other changes come along.

Keep in mind it'll be halfed in PvP, so it'll be 16.5% of max health. So the heal will be small on your average 25k health heavy armor build. Plus it will cost Magica, so you won't have a great amount of casts. And you give e up the ability to escape and reset fights as well as bonus stealth damage etc.

I honestly see this as a pve only skill, mainly aimed at tanks. Warden, DKs and sorcs already have a health scaling self heal, just Templars that won't now.

You have 50% more health in PvP, right? So lets calculate:

PvE: 10.000 health - 3.3k heal
PvP: 15.000 health - 2.5k heal

So overall the decrease is 25% instead of 50%. Or did I get something wrong?

This heal is a lot stronger than green dragon blood and will outperform it anytime.

_Salty_ · April 2018

As a Nightblade tank since day 1 of console release I am thrilled by these changes!.

RouDeR · April 2018

This is ABSURT , I already heal like a truck with my Warden with only 10% max health scaling.
And now they boost it to 20% of max health , and also give the ScrubBlades 33% max health Scaler ,
Health Blades will be the top dogs for PVP tanking with nearly 90-100k Health and healing for 25-50k on cast ^^

Yolokin_Swagonborn · April 2018

Hey they finally fixed Dark Cloak!

Is this whole post an april fool joke?

_Salty_ · April 2018

RouDeR wrote: »

This is ABSURT , I already heal like a truck with my Warden with only 10% max health scaling.
And now they boost it to 20% of max health , and also give the ScrubBlades 33% max health Scaler ,
Health Blades will be the top dogs for PVP tanking with nearly 90-100k Health and healing for 25-50k on cast ^^

You play a HP Warden so your complaints carry little weight.

A high HP nightblade will do zero damage compared to the same spec on warden.

You should cry some more. I love the Salt.

Rohamad_Ali · April 2018

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Hey they finally fixed Dark Cloak!

Is this whole post an april fool joke?

Yes they just got it working correctly so it was time for Wrobel to kill it

Mureel · April 2018

mb10 wrote: »

EDIT: Okay invisibility still exists on the other morphs and that 32% heal is CRAZY.

Reeally really interseting for NBs now.

Would love to know if that heal can crit... If so, NBs in PVP may genuinely face a really interesting option between healing and invisibiltiy.

Not liking the path of making healer role even more useless outside of trials/some end game content - pve side.

Lynx7386 · April 2018

RouDeR wrote: »

This is ABSURT , I already heal like a truck with my Warden with only 10% max health scaling.
And now they boost it to 20% of max health , and also give the ScrubBlades 33% max health Scaler ,
Health Blades will be the top dogs for PVP tanking with nearly 90-100k Health and healing for 25-50k on cast ^^

Hah, I'd love to know how you expect someone to get to 100k health. Current max is like 70k

Mureel · April 2018

Iselin wrote: »

Khrogo wrote: »

My prayers have been answered. No one will laugh at my tankblade now!

Or any other tank or healer. The bulk of the skill changes are all about making all 5 classes capable tanks and healers as well as DPS... your choice.

Except it also will go further down the tank/3 dps meta - which only further screws the healer role.

Palidon · April 2018

I am reserving my comments until I can see what these changes cause during the PTS. However, if I have to do a major rework of my play style and builds because of all the changes bye bye. Had enough. There are other games out their to play and maybe a fresh start with another game is the ticket. And no you cannot have my stuff.

Seraphayel · April 2018

jypcy wrote: »

@Seraphayel I believe the pvp health bonus is a flat 5000, not percentage based. So how much this heal is affected depends on both the 5000 extra health and the halved healing amount.
Edit: am bored. Might have where the pvp heal nerf is calculated wrong, though. Or overall calculations, but I think this is right
20k health pve = 6400 heal
20k health pve = 25k health pvp = 8000 heal • .5 healing = 4000 heal
20k health build has a heal in pvp that’s ~37% less effective than in pve

40k health pve = 12800 heal
40k health pve = 45k health pvp = 14400 heal • .5 healing = 7200 heal
40k health build has a heal in pvp that’s ~44% less effective than in pve

You might be right, I wasn't sure if the buff is 5k flat or 50%. Now 50% sounds like a lot and 5k more reasonable. Sorry!

KingJ · April 2018

So I'm assuming they are changing the base morph from dot suppression how will that affect the shadow disguise?

Samadhi · April 2018

OdinForge wrote: »

...
Dark Cloak is a morph, not the base ability.

Going to slightly miss going invisible
but the skill seems like it will be good for tankblade, so it wins my approval

Heal + Minor Protection + Major Armour/Spell Resist buff sounds good to me

Aebaradath · April 2018

Violynne wrote: »

Feanor wrote: »

Alcast writes it lost the stealth. It would be absurd if you could cloak for 33% of max health on top of the stealth.

Us Nightblades would call this a dream.

Well, nothing's stopping you from dreaming about it. Just will never become a real thing in-game. Nor should it.

exeeter702 · April 2018

tinythinker wrote: »

efster wrote: »

This gives NB tanks a burst heal. A+

From what I can tell second-hand there seemed to be a focus on making tanking and healing more broadly viable among different classes.

This isnt a mystery or in need of second hand information... anyone who has been playong this game for at least the last year and a half knows full well this has been their objective for quite some time. This is simply furthering the progress they have established.

PlagueSD · April 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

A Cloak morph that doesn't stealth.

ZoS logic.

But Nightblades FINALLY get an "Oh crap" heal...I'm good with this.

exeeter702 · April 2018

brandonv516 wrote: »

A Cloak morph that doesn't stealth.

ZoS logic.

Not sure how on earth you managed to nab that many agrees...

In the english language that i speak, "cloak" has nothing to do with invisibility. In the eso that i play, NB cloak was always invisibility and will be changing soon to offer a non invisibility option.

Thematically it is entirely logical and mechancially an excellent tool for NB tanks. So yeah..

Regular logic?

Murador178 · April 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise still gives invisibility and crit, what most choose anyway.

I hope thats a joke. Im so bored of the crit cloak myth. I dont know a single decent nb running crit cloak - IT gets consumed on the FIRST dot tick. Not saying that a small stamblade nerf is bad. But acting like it isnt is a nerf is for sure wrong.

Vaoh · April 2018

Drachenfier wrote: »

That's cool and all, but these two changes make no sense:

Strife and its morphs have had their costs increased to be in-line with the cost of Force Pulse.

Different abilities are different?

Twisting Path has had its damage nerfed slightly.

Why? It's a stationary conal AOE that doesn't do near as much damage as mobile pbaoe's like Hurricane.

Some headscratchers in there.

It's probably to even out DPS so that certain specs aren't insanely OP.

All weapons that take up two slots next patch (Staves, Two-Handed, Bow) will now count as two set pieces. Due to this, Magicka DPS classes in particular will have increased DPS.

Mag NB was already overperforming (well, the others were underperforming) so now ZOS has increased the cost of Strife (now it's a choice rather than Strife being way better) and lowered Twisting Path damage by a tiny bit to more even things out. Until we test on PTS theres no way for us to fully understand what that'll do to Mag NB DPS.

Hopefully in the grand scheme of things it makes it possible for DPS to choose any of the Mag classes and be viable. Atm its pretty much only Mag NB and Mag Sorc that gets used.

brandonv516 · April 2018

exeeter702 wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

A Cloak morph that doesn't stealth.

ZoS logic.

Not sure how on earth you managed to nab that many agrees...

In the english language that i speak, "cloak" has nothing to do with invisibility. In the eso that i play, NB cloak was always invisibility and will be changing soon to offer a non invisibility option.

Thematically it is entirely logical and mechancially an excellent tool for NB tanks. So yeah..

Regular logic?

Because you clearly read too much into it while others did not.

TequilaFire · April 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise still gives invisibility and crit, what most choose anyway.

I hope thats a joke. Im so bored of the crit cloak myth. I dont know a single decent nb running crit cloak - IT gets consumed on the FIRST dot tick. Not saying that a small stamblade nerf is bad. But acting like it isnt is a nerf is for sure wrong.

Well now you don't have a choice.
I never have a problem getting a crit from stealth, but then again I don't rely on stealth attack all the time because I am an in your face stamblade.

PlagueSD · April 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise still gives invisibility and crit, what most choose anyway.

I hope thats a joke. Im so bored of the crit cloak myth. I dont know a single decent nb running crit cloak - IT gets consumed on the FIRST dot tick. Not saying that a small stamblade nerf is bad. But acting like it isnt is a nerf is for sure wrong.

I don't use it for the crit, I use it in my "stealth" setup to be able to sneak through dungeons, get into position to steal, or if I need to assassinate someone that's facing me. I get my "crit" from ambushing from crouched stealth.

Wreuntzylla · April 2018

I don't get it. This is better than cancelling invigorating drain after the first tick?

Jade1986 · April 2018

Palidon wrote: »

I am reserving my comments until I can see what these changes cause during the PTS. However, if I have to do a major rework of my play style and builds because of all the changes bye bye. Had enough. There are other games out their to play and maybe a fresh start with another game is the ticket. And no you cannot have my stuff.

im actually a little peeved myself. Why the change? We already have the heal that costs health which is pretty much intended for tanks anyway. Just scale that to health for one morph and be done with it. This just obliterates the shadow knight tank build.

GG zos, gg.

Who the actual smurf were they listening to here?!

Murador178 · April 2018

TequilaFire wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise still gives invisibility and crit, what most choose anyway.

I hope thats a joke. Im so bored of the crit cloak myth. I dont know a single decent nb running crit cloak - IT gets consumed on the FIRST dot tick. Not saying that a small stamblade nerf is bad. But acting like it isnt is a nerf is for sure wrong.

Well now you don't have a choice.
I never have a problem getting a crit from stealth, but then again I don't rely on stealth attack all the time because I am an in your face stamblade.

So u are using zero dots on ur stam nb- no poison inject, no bleeds? Im also running base mag regen and not permacloaking around - but It's for every stamblade/mageblade running cloak with a dot - mainly a nerf.

And yes I got no option - just refering to ur statement that most nbs anyways use that morph, thats maybe even true since all the new players get hyped reading it

TequilaFire · April 2018

Murador178 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Murador178 wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Shadowy Disguise still gives invisibility and crit, what most choose anyway.

I hope thats a joke. Im so bored of the crit cloak myth. I dont know a single decent nb running crit cloak - IT gets consumed on the FIRST dot tick. Not saying that a small stamblade nerf is bad. But acting like it isnt is a nerf is for sure wrong.

Well now you don't have a choice.
I never have a problem getting a crit from stealth, but then again I don't rely on stealth attack all the time because I am an in your face stamblade.

So u are using zero dots on ur stam nb- no poison inject, no bleeds? Im also running base mag regen and not permacloaking around - but It's for every stamblade/mageblade running cloak with a dot - mainly a nerf.

If I stealth I mainly just use regular crouch stealth, most of the time cloak gets switched out for rapids because of lack of slots.

Jameliel · April 2018

Yep, because stealthy tank nightblades make a lot of sense. Nightblades are rogue or assassin types. ZOS tries to melt all classes into one cup of slop. Makes no sense. If someone wants to tank, they should play a tank class. If they want to be a magical spellcaster, they should play that type of class. In ESO, they try to make it so that any class can do anything. In that case it should have simply been designed more like TES. People always say this is an MMO and not TES or Skyrim. So design the classes like an MMO then! Stop the flakiness, and trying to walk on top of the fence.

Strider__Roshin · April 2018

I can't wait! My Nightblade is finally becoming the Knightblade I've always wanted.