Blessing of Restoration vs Combat Prayer

Kelces · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Reverb · April 2018

Combat Prayer. Better in both pve and pvp. It brings something to the table that I can't readily get from other sources, unlike Blessing.

Illurian · April 2018

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

Kelces · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

Illurian · April 2018

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

I don't see where you saw the insult, but sure.

The argument (that you clearly missed) is this: it is a quantitative fact that not using Combat Prayer reduces your group's dps output potential significantly (8% maximum difference).
This means that you are indeed less valuable as a healer when compared to a healer who is able to maintain the group just as well, while also providing Minor Berserk through Combat Prayer. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

You have added no argument for using the other morph, only that it's against the norm, and thus a good thing in your eyes.

Kelces · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

I don't see where you saw the insult, but sure.

The argument (that you clearly missed) is this: it is a quantitative fact that not using Combat Prayer reduces your group's dps output potential significantly (8% maximum difference).
This means that you are indeed less valuable as a healer when compared to a healer who is able to maintain the group just as well, while also providing Minor Berserk through Combat Prayer. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

You have added no argument for using the other morph, only that it's against the norm, and thus a good thing in your eyes.

Alright, then make the title then "Blessing of protection vs. Elemental wall" or something, because that is where it is going. Entirely going for DPS instead of healing. I'm open to that, but that's not the topic here - it is which morph you use, and why. (period)

I understand the calculations and I used it myself. I just feel more comfortable with the one I use today, simple as that. And a game should be about challenge and variety, I have enough of the monotonous type elsewhere...

Asardes · April 2018

Combat Prayer is not 8% since it adds up to other multiplicative bonuses, but will still make quite a hefty percentage of damage. The only two situations were the group wouldn't complain would be the group is:
A. Totally oblivious, or they are simply content to have a healer that at least heals
B. Made entirely of Nightblades, that don't need it

Illurian · April 2018

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

I don't see where you saw the insult, but sure.

The argument (that you clearly missed) is this: it is a quantitative fact that not using Combat Prayer reduces your group's dps output potential significantly (8% maximum difference).
This means that you are indeed less valuable as a healer when compared to a healer who is able to maintain the group just as well, while also providing Minor Berserk through Combat Prayer. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

You have added no argument for using the other morph, only that it's against the norm, and thus a good thing in your eyes.

Alright, then make the title then "Blessing of protection vs. Elemental wall" or something, because that is where it is going. Entirely going for DPS instead of healing. I'm open to that, but that's not the topic here - it is which morph you use, and why. (period)

I understand the calculations and I used it myself. I just feel more comfortable with the one I use today, simple as that. And a game should be about challenge and variety, I have enough of the monotonous type elsewhere...

You realize of course that it's one of the jobs of a healer to buff your teammates so that they can output the most dps as possible, right?

Combat Prayer heals and buffs at the same time, which is why it is such a good skill. This is the reason why people use this morph. You said yourself that this is about which morph you use and why. This is why.

You, however, have not provided any empirical data or even quantitative reasons for using the other morph. Your only arguments have been 1) It's against the norm and 2) "I just feel more comfortable with it". Those are not objective arguments, and are completely void of any quantitative reasoning.

Come back with a real reason, and then maybe we could have an interesting conversation.

Kelces · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

I don't see where you saw the insult, but sure.

The argument (that you clearly missed) is this: it is a quantitative fact that not using Combat Prayer reduces your group's dps output potential significantly (8% maximum difference).
This means that you are indeed less valuable as a healer when compared to a healer who is able to maintain the group just as well, while also providing Minor Berserk through Combat Prayer. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

You have added no argument for using the other morph, only that it's against the norm, and thus a good thing in your eyes.

Alright, then make the title then "Blessing of protection vs. Elemental wall" or something, because that is where it is going. Entirely going for DPS instead of healing. I'm open to that, but that's not the topic here - it is which morph you use, and why. (period)

I understand the calculations and I used it myself. I just feel more comfortable with the one I use today, simple as that. And a game should be about challenge and variety, I have enough of the monotonous type elsewhere...

You realize of course that it's one of the jobs of a healer to buff your teammates so that they can output the most dps as possible, right?

Combat Prayer heals and buffs at the same time, which is why it is such a good skill. This is the reason why people use this morph. You said yourself that this is about which morph you use and why. This is why.

You, however, have not provided any empirical data or even quantitative reasons for using the other morph. Your only arguments have been 1) It's against the norm and 2) "I just feel more comfortable with it". Those are not objective arguments, and are completely void of any quantitative reasoning.

Come back with a real reason, and then maybe we could have an interesting conversation.

Define "real". I hope that I am such.

I mean seriously, this I my opinion and as I mentioned - I used it already. Not though I am with this morph and I like it, as others do. Of course, they don't know, because you know, right?

We could go round and round, but I have real, tangeable experience, how this morph works differently - note differently, not worse or better.

Illurian · April 2018

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

I don't see where you saw the insult, but sure.

The argument (that you clearly missed) is this: it is a quantitative fact that not using Combat Prayer reduces your group's dps output potential significantly (8% maximum difference).
This means that you are indeed less valuable as a healer when compared to a healer who is able to maintain the group just as well, while also providing Minor Berserk through Combat Prayer. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

You have added no argument for using the other morph, only that it's against the norm, and thus a good thing in your eyes.

Alright, then make the title then "Blessing of protection vs. Elemental wall" or something, because that is where it is going. Entirely going for DPS instead of healing. I'm open to that, but that's not the topic here - it is which morph you use, and why. (period)

I understand the calculations and I used it myself. I just feel more comfortable with the one I use today, simple as that. And a game should be about challenge and variety, I have enough of the monotonous type elsewhere...

You realize of course that it's one of the jobs of a healer to buff your teammates so that they can output the most dps as possible, right?

Combat Prayer heals and buffs at the same time, which is why it is such a good skill. This is the reason why people use this morph. You said yourself that this is about which morph you use and why. This is why.

You, however, have not provided any empirical data or even quantitative reasons for using the other morph. Your only arguments have been 1) It's against the norm and 2) "I just feel more comfortable with it". Those are not objective arguments, and are completely void of any quantitative reasoning.

Come back with a real reason, and then maybe we could have an interesting conversation.

Define "real". I hope that I am such. I mean seriously, this I my opinion and as I mentioned - I used it already. Not though I am with this morph and I like it, as others do. Of course, they don't know, because you know, right?

We could go round and round, but I have real, tangeable experience, how this morph works differently - note differently, not worse or better.

Oh my good lord. Someone get this guy a lesson in debates 101, or even just opinion expression.

Again, "I like it" is NOT an objective reason that benefits your cause.

Please, list your "tangible" experience in how this morph has out-performed Combat Prayer. At least then, you'd have some form of data to back up your claims.

And when it's a game of numbers (DPS, timings, leaderboards, etc), there actually is a better or worse option. Optimization will always be the better option in the end game. Combat Prayer is one such optimization option.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

Look at it from this perspective...
Lets say your group does 50k dps and your on a boss with 10 mil HP. It is going to take that group 200 seconds to dps that boss down. That is 200 seconds that you have to hope no one stands in stupid and 200 seconds you have to sustain healing everyone.

Now lets say you use combat prayer. 50k dps becomes 54k dps. Not much of an improvement really. Now 200 seconds become 185 seconds. So you kill the boss 15 seconds faster. Thats 15 seconds you dont need to worry about trying to heal someone out of stupid and that you dont have to manage your resources.

With the other morph your healing more for a slightly bigger area and applying buffs almost twice as long. But you should be using BoR/CP as a instant heal with your other two heals being used to keep people topped up. So chances are your going to be casting this often in fights that matter, anyway. So the longer duration of the buffs isnt that important.

As for the bigger heal in most cases it shouldnt be needed. In crappy gear, i still can heal for over 50% of an average players HP per tick per player without using my ultimate or using a shield. On top of this most players either have a heal back barred or use a skill regularly that has heal component.

If your group is any good they will know how to negate some of the incoming damage either by moving out of the way, blocking, using their own protection buffs/shields, or using their own heals.

Healing is very much a support role. And yes some players can run a lot of content without a healer. But i think people on the forums over estimate how many people can achieve that. In many cases if im dead and not rezzed in a dungeon in less than 20-30 seconds, the group wipes. Sometimes you have one outstanding player that has all the right stuff, knows their build in and out and is use to soloing bosses that can just finish the boss off. But this is far more rare than they make out on the forums.

Most groups need a healer to run group content and there is nothing wrong with that. I think the fact that you can solo group content that is "suppose" to be your level or that you can ignore mechanics or that you can run without a healer or a tank says more about how broken the system is than how good the players are that are doing it.

kylewwefan · April 2018

Asardes wrote: »

Combat Prayer is not 8% since it adds up to other multiplicative bonuses, but will still make quite a hefty percentage of damage. The only two situations were the group wouldn't complain would be the group is:
A. Totally oblivious, or they are simply content to have a healer that at least heals
B. Made entirely of Nightblades, that don't need it

Play on console. No one will ever know.

Anotherone773 · April 2018

kylewwefan wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

Combat Prayer is not 8% since it adds up to other multiplicative bonuses, but will still make quite a hefty percentage of damage. The only two situations were the group wouldn't complain would be the group is:
A. Totally oblivious, or they are simply content to have a healer that at least heals
B. Made entirely of Nightblades, that don't need it

Play on console. No one will ever know.

This is one thing i bet is better on console you dont have as much of this max DPS/carry/ dont need role X nonsense that exists on PC...where everyone is a pro and no one else is good enough/valuable/worthy.

Kelces · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

I don't see where you saw the insult, but sure.

The argument (that you clearly missed) is this: it is a quantitative fact that not using Combat Prayer reduces your group's dps output potential significantly (8% maximum difference).
This means that you are indeed less valuable as a healer when compared to a healer who is able to maintain the group just as well, while also providing Minor Berserk through Combat Prayer. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

You have added no argument for using the other morph, only that it's against the norm, and thus a good thing in your eyes.

Alright, then make the title then "Blessing of protection vs. Elemental wall" or something, because that is where it is going. Entirely going for DPS instead of healing. I'm open to that, but that's not the topic here - it is which morph you use, and why. (period)

I understand the calculations and I used it myself. I just feel more comfortable with the one I use today, simple as that. And a game should be about challenge and variety, I have enough of the monotonous type elsewhere...

You realize of course that it's one of the jobs of a healer to buff your teammates so that they can output the most dps as possible, right?

Combat Prayer heals and buffs at the same time, which is why it is such a good skill. This is the reason why people use this morph. You said yourself that this is about which morph you use and why. This is why.

You, however, have not provided any empirical data or even quantitative reasons for using the other morph. Your only arguments have been 1) It's against the norm and 2) "I just feel more comfortable with it". Those are not objective arguments, and are completely void of any quantitative reasoning.

Come back with a real reason, and then maybe we could have an interesting conversation.

Define "real". I hope that I am such. I mean seriously, this I my opinion and as I mentioned - I used it already. Not though I am with this morph and I like it, as others do. Of course, they don't know, because you know, right?

We could go round and round, but I have real, tangeable experience, how this morph works differently - note differently, not worse or better.

Oh my good lord. Someone get this guy a lesson in debates 101, or even just opinion expression.

Again, "I like it" is NOT an objective reason that benefits your cause.

Please, list your "tangible" experience in how this morph has out-performed Combat Prayer. At least then, you'd have some form of data to back up your claims.

And when it's a game of numbers (DPS, timings, leaderboards, etc), there actually is a better or worse option. Optimization will always be the better option in the end game. Combat Prayer is one such optimization option.

I understand. May I suggest you making a thread called similar, only with the addition "...only experienced end-game farmers". Then you get more answers you like?

Mureel · April 2018

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

Omg please stop posting now. It's better to let people think what they will of you, rather than to keep talking and remove all doubt.

Mureel · April 2018

Combat Prayer 100% - the buffs cannot be ignored. Also for me it heals quite well! Also, most people I run with daren't idiot all over the place because I will say 'I guess you're so awesome that you don't need heals or min 8% dps buff. Stop standing in China please (In nicer words in pugs obviously, but people who should know better usually do - but just seem to derp off now and then.).'

Mureel · April 2018

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Haha totally agree! However, Lol! and I am like look: I have all the ach on my healer from bringing you guys through stuff when you didn't know wtf to do, so I go with on my healer for HM so I can get my ach/fang skin/or whatever, or you can heal yourselves next week in raids xD

Mureel · April 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

Look at it from this perspective...
Lets say your group does 50k dps and your on a boss with 10 mil HP. It is going to take that group 200 seconds to dps that boss down. That is 200 seconds that you have to hope no one stands in stupid and 200 seconds you have to sustain healing everyone.

Now lets say you use combat prayer. 50k dps becomes 54k dps. Not much of an improvement really. Now 200 seconds become 185 seconds. So you kill the boss 15 seconds faster. Thats 15 seconds you dont need to worry about trying to heal someone out of stupid and that you dont have to manage your resources.

With the other morph your healing more for a slightly bigger area and applying buffs almost twice as long. But you should be using BoR/CP as a instant heal with your other two heals being used to keep people topped up. So chances are your going to be casting this often in fights that matter, anyway. So the longer duration of the buffs isnt that important.

As for the bigger heal in most cases it shouldnt be needed. In crappy gear, i still can heal for over 50% of an average players HP per tick per player without using my ultimate or using a shield. On top of this most players either have a heal back barred or use a skill regularly that has heal component.

If your group is any good they will know how to negate some of the incoming damage either by moving out of the way, blocking, using their own protection buffs/shields, or using their own heals.

Healing is very much a support role. And yes some players can run a lot of content without a healer. But i think people on the forums over estimate how many people can achieve that. In many cases if im dead and not rezzed in a dungeon in less than 20-30 seconds, the group wipes. Sometimes you have one outstanding player that has all the right stuff, knows their build in and out and is use to soloing bosses that can just finish the boss off. But this is far more rare than they make out on the forums.

Most groups need a healer to run group content and there is nothing wrong with that. I think the fact that you can solo group content that is "suppose" to be your level or that you can ignore mechanics or that you can run without a healer or a tank says more about how broken the system is than how good the players are that are doing it.

Exactly. I run in legit end game raiding guilds and I always see lf1m dps going tank + 3dps for scale HM and legit over an hour later they're still in there. Even funnier is no death runs with this setup.

Yeah GL HF if you brought any Stam build with you!

Eventually 'omg can you come heal this x?' Because they know me, I can get away with joking 'well I could have 2 hours ago but now I think I need to wash my hair (relogs to healer).'

Seriously though, I've been once to a vcoa2 just me on my healer and 2x dps -not even a tank- I taunted the titan and taunted the crematorial boss whose name I forget (just inner fire, no special gear/skills), and I only had to HS here and there, buff/ele and handle resources for them and they finished skoria HM on 2nd pad.

However dps like that is rarer than even they think they are.

On the flip side, on my tank within the first 2 weeks of tanking, I've done VBF, VROM, VCOA2, VCOS, VFH - all HM, with just 3x dps but they were legit hardcore dps guys who were my guild leaders/officers and I can self sustain pretty well myself. So again, the top of the top. Not many of those exist.

So there are lots of sides here - but a good healer who is more of a support/resource and warhorn source will usually have a place in any group.

It's the ones who insist on only healing and not much more who will find themselves excluded.

Kanar · April 2018

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Illurian wrote: »

Kelces wrote: »

Sure, DPS > all right? Well can't help you there. Just switch the healer for DPS aswell, who needs them anyway...

In this game, yes, actually.

And a lot of 4man content actually is completed without healers. 3 DDs and 1 tank is one of the most common set ups.

Trials are an entirely different matter where healers are mandatory, and that is where your argument falls apart even more. Instead of just 1-2 dps characters missing monster sets, you want 8-9 DDs to miss their monster sets because you're a special snowflake.

Oh please, next argument.

Funny though, that that "special snowflake" never used combat prayer in any trials and V-trials and nobody complained. In fact I got congratulated for doing very good. Nobody said "wtf, no Combat Prayer?" or something in that manner.

Because no one looks through their entire combat metrics parse to view if Combat Prayer was constantly applied after each fight.

Try to justify it as much as you want, and keep petting yourself on your back, but the fact still stands that you are not benefiting your group to the best of your ability because you want to do something "differently". You are, in other words, gimping your group's performance for no reason other than to be a special snowflake.

And yet another insult, no argument. Just like dismissing the value of a healer in general. And I am lacking proof? Just reiterating what others opinions are, doesn't make it true. I am simply stating, that I prefer the other morph and I had success with it, you claim I am less valuable in my role, just because... Interesting.

I don't see where you saw the insult, but sure.

The argument (that you clearly missed) is this: it is a quantitative fact that not using Combat Prayer reduces your group's dps output potential significantly (8% maximum difference).
This means that you are indeed less valuable as a healer when compared to a healer who is able to maintain the group just as well, while also providing Minor Berserk through Combat Prayer. This isn't an opinion, it's a fact.

You have added no argument for using the other morph, only that it's against the norm, and thus a good thing in your eyes.

Alright, then make the title then "Blessing of protection vs. Elemental wall" or something, because that is where it is going. Entirely going for DPS instead of healing. I'm open to that, but that's not the topic here - it is which morph you use, and why. (period)

I understand the calculations and I used it myself. I just feel more comfortable with the one I use today, simple as that. And a game should be about challenge and variety, I have enough of the monotonous type elsewhere...

You realize of course that it's one of the jobs of a healer to buff your teammates so that they can output the most dps as possible, right?

Combat Prayer heals and buffs at the same time, which is why it is such a good skill. This is the reason why people use this morph. You said yourself that this is about which morph you use and why. This is why.

You, however, have not provided any empirical data or even quantitative reasons for using the other morph. Your only arguments have been 1) It's against the norm and 2) "I just feel more comfortable with it". Those are not objective arguments, and are completely void of any quantitative reasoning.

Come back with a real reason, and then maybe we could have an interesting conversation.

Define "real". I hope that I am such. I mean seriously, this I my opinion and as I mentioned - I used it already. Not though I am with this morph and I like it, as others do. Of course, they don't know, because you know, right?

We could go round and round, but I have real, tangeable experience, how this morph works differently - note differently, not worse or better.

Oh my good lord. Someone get this guy a lesson in debates 101, or even just opinion expression.

Again, "I like it" is NOT an objective reason that benefits your cause.

Please, list your "tangible" experience in how this morph has out-performed Combat Prayer. At least then, you'd have some form of data to back up your claims.

And when it's a game of numbers (DPS, timings, leaderboards, etc), there actually is a better or worse option. Optimization will always be the better option in the end game. Combat Prayer is one such optimization option.

I understand. May I suggest you making a thread called similar, only with the addition "...only experienced end-game farmers". Then you get more answers you like?

Don't you feel bad that you're holding your group back by not performing to the best of your abilities? That's 11 other people who are working with you to accomplish a goal, and you could support them more but you're just like, "nah, I don't feel like it."