Can block with magicka is nice, but not good enough to out weight a set bonus AND the stat and armor that shield give (shield is a big enchanting piece) imo.

I use Ice Staff on my Warden.
5p Ebon
5p Torag (SnB)
2p Monster set (Change depending on content)
Maelstrom Ice Staff w/ Crusher

Considering I've cleared most vDLC dungeons (I quit running vBRF ever again) and vHRC + vAA no problem, I fail to see why so many are against it. It honestly seems like Crusher is up non-stop on my Frost Staff and while I do use my SnB on tough fighs like the Warrior, I still find myself using my Frost Staff for extra damage or heavy attacks resource returns during times I can afford to do so (Such as when he's jumping/throwing his shield/etc.)

There isn't a single person that can convince me that Ice Staff isn't viable an option for tanking, after what I've done thus far with my Warden.

Losing a set bonus on your back bar is hardly a big deal. Elemental blockade provides maximum uptime on your front bar enchant, you'll almost never have crusher going if all you're using is double barred 1h/shield - the only thing you'll have to proc your enchant with is pierce armor or heroic slash, neither of which you'll be spamming in any situation where blocking matters. Using wall of elements lets you proc your mainhand enchant without dropping block.

Blocking with magicka isnt an issue either, it's actually a benefit. Any situation where you need to permablock is much easier to handle when you can juggle your resource pools for blocking rather than being stuck on one. A proper warden tank build will run high magicka recovery anyways, as you've got bull netch to restore stamina and nature's gift for whichever resource is lower at the time. You'll always have one bar with resources to block.

Gripping shards does immobilize, but your chances of applying aoe minor maim are much higher when combining shards, ice blockade, and arctic blast. You'll also get free immobilizes after shards' initial 3 second immobilize wears off.

I've said it before, and I hate repeating myself, but double barring sword and shield is useless for a tank, you're giving up all of your versatility and utility in exchange for what? 1 set piece on your back bar, which you spend very little time on, and a little extra health when on the back bar. Not worth it IMO.

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I can't get 100% uptime on Crusher with double SnB

Thing is , you can get 100% uptime . Biggest misinformation about Crusher is that the actual cooldown is 9 seconds , not 10 . When you use Infused , the cooldown drops to 4.5 . I get 100% uptime on it without Blockade . I only use Blockade to proc Crusher while away from the boss or before I am gonna get stunned . I actually found that in some cases Blockade makes me lose uptime on Crusher because it procs on the closest enemy to you which means it can proc on an add instead of boss . I use it only when necessary and I get a lot more uptime on it in fights with adds like Stone Atronach , Mage , Stonebreaker , Ozara , Serpent (if I am holding Manti that is) and many others . This tactic becomes especially useful in trash fights where DDs are trying to burst down a specific enemy instead of focusing on heavy AOE damage .

You can find about it more here : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/398757/how-to-get-good-uptime-on-crusher-for-dummies#latest

My point is , I completely agree that double 1h/s is mostly useless but it doesn't mean that you can't get 100% Crusher with it

Liofa wrote: »

Silver_Strider wrote: »

I can't get 100% uptime on Crusher with double SnB

Thing is , you can get 100% uptime . Biggest misinformation about Crusher is that the actual cooldown is 9 seconds , not 10 . When you use Infused , the cooldown drops to 4.5 . I get 100% uptime on it without Blockade . I only use Blockade to proc Crusher while away from the boss or before I am gonna get stunned . I actually found that in some cases Blockade makes me lose uptime on Crusher because it procs on the closest enemy to you which means it can proc on an add instead of boss . I use it only when necessary and I get a lot more uptime on it in fights with adds like Stone Atronach , Mage , Stonebreaker , Ozara , Serpent (if I am holding Manti that is) and many others . This tactic becomes especially useful in trash fights where DDs are trying to burst down a specific enemy instead of focusing on heavy AOE damage .

You can find about it more here : https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/398757/how-to-get-good-uptime-on-crusher-for-dummies#latest

My point is , I completely agree that double 1h/s is mostly useless but it doesn't mean that you can't get 100% Crusher with it

See, this is the type of data I like to see. I learned something useful, although it makes Torag much less appealing a set for me to use now but still, useful info.

@xaraan you really have to build for it to reap the benefits.

The status effect passive for destruction staves applies to all abilities as long as a destro staff is equipped, and it stacks with the 300% extra chance to chill that wardens get from winters embrace. This means that, depending on how the game calculates the bonuses, you're getting roughly 400% extra chance to proc chilled with gripping shards and arctic blast each second. Any chilled enemies will be immobilized for free via elemental blockade (with a frost staff) and every enemy you chill is not only slowed but also afflicted by minor maim for no additional cost. In any aoe situation a warden with an ice staff can immobilize and maim large numbers of enemies for less cost and far more quickly than most tanks (do can use choking talons but must recast every 3-4 seconds to maintain the effect, warden recasts half as often).

Additionally, permablock is far easier using both resource pools. My warden gears for magicka recovery and uses bull netch for stamina recovery. only one resource is halted while blocking depending on the weapon you're using at that time, so you can recover stamina while blocking with magicka and vice versa.
Additionally warden tanks are more likely to be using a greater number of stamina abilities than dk tanks due to fungal growth (in some cases) and subterranean assault, so being split pretty evenly between resource pools means you need to be able to juggle which one you block with.

Ice staff also has a roughly 2 second cast for heavy attacks (not the 4-5 seconds everyone likes to exaggerate it to), and can taunt enemies at range while restoring magicka rather than costing a ton of it as inner fire does. You also get a nice little 8% of your health as a damage shield at the same time- it makes tanking things like lord warden split MUCH easier. In that particular fight another tank would either be running around trying to pierce or wasting magicka on inner fire spam, while a warden can sit in the center and taunt all 4 clones easily while shielding and healing.

Ultimately the issue is that everyone is so used to dk tanking that they aren't able to wrap their brains around a different style.

I think you misunderstood my point about resources and recovery, so ill elaborate: you're already building into magicka recovery as a tank, that's normal because your stamina doesn't recover while blocking. That means your magicka pool should generally be full or close to it when on your shield bar. The bull netch is on the staff bar (back bar) and will artificially boost your stamina recovery when you run low. It combines with base stamina regen to refill your stam pool quickly while blocking with a staff, at which point you go back to the shield bar and your magicka recovery refills the other resource while blocking with the shield/stamina.

Wardens do not have on demand burst resource recovery like dragon knights do. A dk tank can use an ultimate and be back to 75-100% in both resources instantly. Tanking as a warden requires closer attention to your resources, and more finesse when it comes to managing those pools and what you're actively blocking with. This is part of the reason warden tanks haven't been picked up by the big streamers and thus are considered worse off: because theyre harder to play and less forgiving than a dk. I still think the advantages outweigh that once you known how to use them.

xbobx wrote: »

i am only going to be using mine for normal dungeons and the easier vets, nothing too serious.

i only leveled it for the leveling rewards, i can always turn him back into dps. which will give me two, one ranged one close in

Don't be afraid to tank harder content with it, its entirely possible.