llElLoboll wrote: »

I would like to add the lack of a counter to piercing mark. As a class ability I'm not looking to have it nerfed into oblivion but as a mostly solo stamblade vs the zergs it would be nice to have some kind of cool down to were the ability can't be spammed.

Can it not be purged? Costly or not it will save your life

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Siphoning strikes / siphoning attacks / leeching strikes lost their usefulness when they were changed for morrowind, and subsequently brought about the death of the nightblade tank.
.

Yup, would like a small amount of the other resource too. Just revert if it you are feeling lazy

Buff Soul Harvest (the non incap morph)

I have 2 Bug report videos here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsTw73RETC4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRw5XXm_1Qk&t=63s

Make path and last a full 12 seconds and cloak last a true and full 3 seconds

Overall stamblade needs to be adjusted to where they need Grim Focus to make kills, that is what keeps magblade in check

@DDuke

Gotta run some Mag Pots. Least that's what I do on my StamB

@xaraan

Oh, no no no. Specifics are great, I just find it good to to have a generalization of your concerns that can act as an easy conversation starter, and then be able to expand upon that by then referencing the specifics as they come up.

I just wanted to make sure that when I append this generalization to the initial post, it properly reflects the points made.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Xarran

This is what I appended to the main post: Tanking "Offers little Group Utility and is lackluster in terms of Reactive Health Sustain against large damage burst"

@NyassaV

The failure of the health restore on Tether, was that just an odd instance, or does it always happen? I havent noticed it not restoring health when I use it.

I've noticed it before thats just the first time I actually did something about it

To Malevolent Offering

I would wish one morph for strong single target/self heal and one morph for ground target aoe or nova aoe heal. Maybe they could add a small shield only to save the first heal tick and negate one incoming crit.

But the biggest problem is there is no chance to fix this ability as long as it is affected by battle spirit buff. MA will be always over or unperforming in PvE or PvP.

ascan7 wrote: »

My opinions, even if i'm not an expert player. Nightblade is in a good spot at the moment. Its DPS is strong so i would not buff it. I would probably change the less chosen morphs to help tanks and healers, in particular:
- Incap is too strong. Either reduce its effect or increase the cost. i prefer the latter
- Blur and morphs are used almost by no one. Maybe we need to redesign the ability. Make it more useful for tanks?
- Reaper's mark is kinda meh. Make it give more debuff to be more useful for group play.
- Dark shades is useless. Remove the minor maim from the shades and give them some useful abilities (interrupting, lifesteal/magicksteal, breach, vulnerability, mangle, idk)
- Malevolent offering it's heading in the right direction, but need some work. Maybe one morph could become a burst heal.
- Drain power could be buffed a little to become useful for tanks again maybe

Going to pick apart a couple things here. First reaper's mark. This is probably the strongest tool set a nightblade has when used right. Major berserk when stack on top of your other buffs is amazing as well an instant self heal. Also being able to apply a long major breach major fracture debuff can be useful in so many different scenarios where you separate from the tank. This ability is fine as is and is both relevant and strong in both pve and pvp. For pvp its a great single target debuff, for pve casting it on adds during boss fights will boost your damage by 25% against boss and AoE. Definitely not "meh"

Dark shades is a sticky TWENTY SECOND minor maim. So many areas where this can be used effectively. I've used it in VDSA, vAS +2 to debuff liothis, and countless other scenarios where it most definitely benefited the group when doing progression and learning trial runs as well as first timers in vma. Not to even mention the strength this skill has in pvp. Both morphs are useful and I've found scenarios and reasons to utilize both skills.

Now blur. Probably one of the most undervalued yet best pvp skills the MagBlade has. This is what gives MagBlade its mobility. You have one morph that gives you the minor armor buffs as well as major evasion. Good for just straight survivability, the other morph double take is a godsend for mobility. It can be casted without breaking stealth (very important part) and gives major expedition. With concealed weapon, cloaking then casting this gives a very very strong speed boost this is the MagBlade version of streak, just try it out if you don't believe. This is the only thing allowing you to build a Glass cannon MagBlade and be able to survive in battlegrounds and cyro. Try it before you knock it. I don't know how anyone can effectively play MagBlade pvp without this.

Most of your other points I agree with, but these three skills I think you have very wrong.

@Capt_Morgan
From my experience, though I haven't quite used many builds utilizing Reaping Mark, while the damage buff is significant, the duration its last is not. Any failure of rotation combination will cause it to perform less than a slotted DoT. Trying to reapply it to another target will mean that you don't really get much out of the Berserk state and as such the damage increase is very minimal.

While Major Berserk on a Boss is good, it's only viable in niche instances where there are adds around, and you will lose DPS compared to a slotted DoT since the uptime is dependent on add spawns.

That is not to say that the skill isn't good. The Heal and the Debuff it harbors are very useful. However, the Berserk implementation is rather lackluster.
The more and more I think about this, the more I realize that Dark Shades isn't a tanking skill. It's a MagNB DPS DoT skill, but poorly implemented.

Since as a tank, sure this morph allows you some extra damage, but just one shade is enough surely? So why not take the Bowman with extra utility or stick with the base morph?

But approaching this morph as though it is a DPS DoT skill, you can see the direction they went with this. I still have to fully level the Shades on my MagNB, but as it stands right now the added damage is still subpar in comparison to a skill such as Crippling Grasp. So perhaps this could be addressed, perhaps by increasing the magicka scaling of the ability?
My only two cents on this is that I just use Rapids on my MagBlade instead. However I'ma Burster/Bomber, so I spend most of my time in stealth doing setup, rather than using it on the fly, in which case I can imagine the major expedition on Blur is useful.

CavalryPK wrote: »

How about this:

Incap : no longer has the 6 second dmg buff

so you have to chose either to use soul harvest for dmg buff or incap for the stun.

@CavalryPK
Would that remove the Ult gen from Soul Harvest?
(Because I could honestly see that ult 'harvesting' being shifted to one of the mark abilities)

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Capt_Morgan

Reaper's Mark

From my experience, though I haven't quite used many builds utilizing Reaping Mark, while the damage buff is significant, the duration its last is not. Any failure of rotation combination will cause it to perform less than a slotted DoT. Trying to reapply it to another target will mean that you don't really get much out of the Berserk state and as such the damage increase is very minimal.

While Major Berserk on a Boss is good, it's only viable in niche instances where there are adds around, and you will lose DPS compared to a slotted DoT since the uptime is dependent on add spawns.

That is not to say that the skill isn't good. The Heal and the Debuff it harbors are very useful. However, the Berserk implementation is rather lackluster.

Dark Shades

The more and more I think about this, the more I realize that Dark Shades isn't a tanking skill. It's a MagNB DPS DoT skill, but poorly implemented.

Since as a tank, sure this morph allows you some extra damage, but just one shade is enough surely? So why not take the Bowman with extra utility or stick with the base morph?

But approaching this morph as though it is a DPS DoT skill, you can see the direction they went with this. I still have to fully level the Shades on my MagNB, but as it stands right now the added damage is still subpar in comparison to a skill such as Crippling Grasp. So perhaps this could be addressed, perhaps by increasing the magicka scaling of the ability?

Blur

My only two cents on this is that I just use Rapids on my MagBlade instead. However I'ma Burster/Bomber, so I spend most of my time in stealth doing setup, rather than using it on the fly, in which case I can imagine the major expedition on Blur is useful.

To add again to reaper's, it would be on a back bar flex slot so not exactly replacing a powerful skill. Usually would be in place of back bar magelight or even replacing shield. Kind of like how everyone is using acuity the goal is to get it to proc as all your dots are already down so the berserk applies to your single target funnel health, merciless, force pulse w/E spam and not wasted on laying dots. In pvp it's more for 1vX where you can go in full force on the squishy target then so long as you get the kill you get a huge heal followed by a small window of being empowered. This can be really useful for target hopping not just for actual stats and dmg but also the psychology of it. Normally in xv1 after your buddy dies the outnumbered person your chasing takes a sec to recover. To have him instantly leap at you and doing 25% more damage than you'd expect can kind of set the mood for the next 1v1. I agree nightblade doesn't have the best abilities for straightforward stats boosting or group utility but if there's one word that I think describes the nightblade as a damage dealer in both pve and pvp. It's opportunist. I think that's what the devs had in mind when they were making these skills.

The shades aren't as powerful as cripple no but they still come out to almost 2k dps in my MagBlade and I think the only thing holding them back as a dot is their inability to crit. As far as pvp goes though 1v1 I think the shades can be better than the bow shade simply for the factor of destraction. Think how annoying it can be fighting a pet sorc 1v1 then imagine that but the adds can't be CC'd or dmged. It's just an extra bit of annoying chaos to deal with that a MagBlade can set and forget. Not really good 1vX but useful 1v1.

While rapids is good for bombing its not good for any sustain fight as it depletes your Stam instantly on a mag build, pulls you out of cloak, and is lost on combat. Double take works in and out of cloak, doesn't break on atk and leaves your Stam for breakfree and dodgeroll. It's the MagBlade version of bow bar dodge roll to cloak for Stam blades.

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

@Capt_Morgan

Reaper's Mark

From my experience, though I haven't quite used many builds utilizing Reaping Mark, while the damage buff is significant, the duration its last is not. Any failure of rotation combination will cause it to perform less than a slotted DoT. Trying to reapply it to another target will mean that you don't really get much out of the Berserk state and as such the damage increase is very minimal.

While Major Berserk on a Boss is good, it's only viable in niche instances where there are adds around, and you will lose DPS compared to a slotted DoT since the uptime is dependent on add spawns.

That is not to say that the skill isn't good. The Heal and the Debuff it harbors are very useful. However, the Berserk implementation is rather lackluster.

Dark Shades

The more and more I think about this, the more I realize that Dark Shades isn't a tanking skill. It's a MagNB DPS DoT skill, but poorly implemented.

Since as a tank, sure this morph allows you some extra damage, but just one shade is enough surely? So why not take the Bowman with extra utility or stick with the base morph?

But approaching this morph as though it is a DPS DoT skill, you can see the direction they went with this. I still have to fully level the Shades on my MagNB, but as it stands right now the added damage is still subpar in comparison to a skill such as Crippling Grasp. So perhaps this could be addressed, perhaps by increasing the magicka scaling of the ability?

Blur

My only two cents on this is that I just use Rapids on my MagBlade instead. However I'ma Burster/Bomber, so I spend most of my time in stealth doing setup, rather than using it on the fly, in which case I can imagine the major expedition on Blur is useful.

Another thing to note, for tanking or even as a dot the double shades have the added bonus of not having to deal with double casting and being teleported at an inopportune moment if you want to refresh the skill early. The teleport actually is pretty bad on a tank as it can't be reapplied early without activating the teleport

llElLoboll wrote: »

I would like to add the lack of a counter to piercing mark. As a class ability I'm not looking to have it nerfed into oblivion but as a mostly solo stamblade vs the zergs it would be nice to have some kind of cool down to were the ability can't be spammed.

Not sure if it has been changed or not, but from what I remember piercing mark and detect pots don't actually negate cloak. They are caster based buff, not a debuff. If you get marked you only have to LoS the nightblade who marked you, and you can only have one mark on you at a time. Though they can still break your cloak with a simple light attack it isn't entirely a hard counter to cloak and you are left a small advantage.

OK, most of the changes we saw come out today for the Summerset patch look good for my NB tank:

Dark Cloak changed to a burst heal with Minor Protection ==== PERFECT.

A burst heal morph of Offering.

Shade morph made into an AoE maim.

Veil better for group support.

And, not a NB specific one, but Silver Leesh being usable for pulling any enemy in will make non-DK tanking easier in some situations.

Excellent changes!

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Wrobel If you think a nerf for Incap is necessary but don't want to impact PVE then you basically only have 3 ways to change the skill.

1) Changing the animation/sound to be slightly more telegraphed. This is probably the hardest to pull off where you wouldn't nerf the skill completely and I don't think ZOS should do this unless they really give a lot of testing to it.

2) Change or remove the stun mechanic. I'm not onboard with this option either, since I think ZOS had decent logic making the stun more consistent instead of only stunning if lower health than target. Really they just need to examine all CC breaking and prevent chain CCs, because buggy CC isn't exclusive to Incap Strike.

3) Reduce or remove the duration of Major Defile. This is the best option in my opinion, preferably reducing the duration of Major Defile to 3 secs (matching the stun duration). This would keep the skill generally the same as it is now and still give it excellent ability to finish a target. The main way the nerf would be felt is when Incap Strike is used as an opener since it would still allow someone to recover after the 3 secs is up. This would reduce the ability to keep your opponent in full defensive mode.

@Xarran - excellent posts, completely agree with everything.

two points I particularly agree with:

"if I set up a tank class and there isn't a single class skill on my bar I could do without for that role - then there is a problem with that class for that role..."

The best bit is this applies to every class in every role too. I used to tank on NB, before Morrowind, and swapped to stamDPS when tanking for my guild was no longer an option. I completely dislike that even now, I only have three class skills equipped.

"Resource management should be a top advantage in a class with a Siphoning Skill line"

Yep. MO doesn't really fit in with that whole siphoning thing either, even though i like the concept of blood magic. Give us a stamina version of equilibrium as a morph at least! Currently a race choice has a larger impact on resource management than a skill line dedicated to siphoning. *** hum.

My personal wish would be for executioner to proc off dodge (from roll or blur etc), and balanced accordingly. It's currently busted anyway... that would help NB tanks as NB have particularly tank unfriendly resource management skills, whilst not helping DPS too much (if anything)