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Snipe/Lethal Arrow/Focused Aim
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Scorpiodisc✭✭✭What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?
https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Looks like it is a lot of fun to play. It also looks like it is dirty AF and zero fun to play against. However, I do not know enough about it to say if it needs to be nerfed.0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Snipes fine, as intended. But the stacking BS worse since last patch is getting dullEdited by Beardimus on March 31, 2018 10:02PMXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I run this same build on a Stamden with S&B on the back bar. No cloak but more defense while I try and reposition before reengaging. It’s a lot of fun.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
Anti_Virus✭✭✭✭✭
✭Rework snipe to be a single target spammable(like force pulse) and this wouldn't be an issue.Edited by Anti_Virus on March 31, 2018 11:37PMPower Wealth And Influence.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Anti_Virus wrote: »Rework snipe to be a single target spammable(like force pulse) and this wouldn't be an issue.
Eww, noMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I run this same build on a Stamden with S&B on the back bar. No cloak but more defense while I try and reposition before reengaging. It’s a lot of fun.
That sounds awesome, glad to hear it's working on other classes too.
Didn't imagine it working on Warden though, how do you disengage & get to combo range if someone engages you in melee?
I tried the build for a while on a stam sorc and found that tricky even with BoL :PEdited by DDuke on March 31, 2018 11:51PM0 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
Chaos Death-Scale: Shadow Knight
Tanks-With-Sap-Essence: Dark Mage
Dark Brotherhood Listener: Blade of Argonia
Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
Bask-In-My-Light: Warrior of The Light
Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
For the King of Argonia
May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.
Hmm... GankvX? That's a new word. If I'm alone though and there's multiple opponents, isn't it 1vX as well? :thinking:
Ah, whatevs - irrelevant.
I get more kills in shorter amount of time than I do with my other builds currently, that's what matters in the end: efficiency.
Just trying to understand this "stigma" stealth gameplay has, where "ganking" becomes some pseudo-derogatory term for people.Edited by DDuke on April 1, 2018 1:40AM0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I run this same build on a Stamden with S&B on the back bar. No cloak but more defense while I try and reposition before reengaging. It’s a lot of fun.
That sounds awesome, glad to hear it's working on other classes too.
Didn't imagine it working on Warden though, how do you disengage & get to combo range if someone engages you in melee?
I tried the build for a while on a stam sorc and found that tricky even with BoL :P
Shuffle, Shimmering Shield, Bird of Prey (Major Expedition) Soothing Spores on a S&B and run. Spell Wall too if I need it. I'm pretty tanky on that bar. Then just need LoS and crouch. Helps if I have invis pots ready. Since Wardens already give themselves Endurance, Brutality and Savagery than I dont have much use for many of the usual pots. I wouldn't say its as effective as NB though.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.0 -
xeNNNNN✭✭✭✭✭
✭Got one better that will solve it without removing it.
- After a snipe use increase the cost of your next snipe by X amount of Stamina (x%)
- Fix the ability so it cannot be animation cancelled and spammed at the same time.
The only problem I have with it is the latter part of the suggestion (it really is annoying that it can be animation cancelled and spammed all at once) and then of course theres Battlegrounds as the bow "people" who play BGs dont bother with objectives and just sit their fraggin too their hearts content. Its annoying, boring and ruins the whole thing especially considering they're NBs and just bugger off in stealth.
I dont care about them being nightblades but I do take issue with the playstyle it encourages in a game type which encourages teamwork (apart from team deathmatch obviously).Edited by xeNNNNN on April 1, 2018 2:07AMAh, e-communities - the "pinnacle" of the internet............yeah, right.0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Meh. I backbar it on my stamplar and use it in zerg vs zerg fight or to plunk people off walls and wait for a moment where I can gap close and actually fight someone. Will also use it to get defile up before a close. Snipe>POTL>PI>gap> DBOS works pretty well. Watching DDukes video though, think I want an asylum bow to get that in there.0 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭There is definitely a lot of things wrong with it. You can not hear the snipes until you are already dead.0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Got one better that will solve it without removing it.
- After a snipe use increase the cost of your next snipe by X amount of Stamina (x%)
- Fix the ability so it cannot be animation cancelled and spammed at the same time.
The only problem I have with it is the latter part of the suggestion (it really is annoying that it can be animation cancelled and spammed all at once) and then of course theres Battlegrounds as the bow "people" who play BGs dont bother with objectives and just sit their fraggin too their hearts content. Its annoying, boring and ruins the whole thing especially considering they're NBs and just bugger off in stealth.
I dont care about them being nightblades but I do take issue with the playstyle it encourages in a game type which encourages teamwork (apart from team deathmatch obviously).
Umm... you realize its a channel, it cant be animation cancelled. It can only be canceledMaiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.2 -
ArchMikem✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
I want that Build...CP2,100 Master Explorer - AvA Two Star Warlord - Console Peasant - Khajiiti Aficionado - The Clan
Quest Objective: OMG Go Talk To That Kitty!0 -
Beardimus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Rework snipe to be a single target spammable(like force pulse) and this wouldn't be an issue.
Eww, no
Hahaah it already is a spammable while its buggedXbox One | EU | EP
Beardimus : VR16 Dunmer MagSorc [RIP MagDW 2015-2018]
Emperor of Sotha Sil 02-2018 & Sheogorath 05-2019
1st Emperor of RavenwatchAlts - - for the Lolz
Archimus : Bosmer Thief / Archer / Werewolf
Orcimus : Fat drunk Orc battlefield 1st aider
Scalimus - Argonian Sorc Healer / Pet master
Fighting small scale with : The SAXON Guild
Fighting with [PvP] : The Undaunted Wolves
Trading Guilds : TradersOfNirn | FourSquareTraders
Xbox One | NA | EP
Bëardimus : L43 Dunmer Magsorc / BG
Heals-With-Pets : VR16 Argonian Sorc PvP / BG Healer
Nordimus : VR16 Stamsorc
Beardimus le 13iem : L30 Dunmer Magsorc Icereach0 -
Norbi✭✭✭Don't worry about snipe spammers buddy, they will never grow as a PvPer and will lose any and every 1v1 against a semi-decently skilled person, they're only dangerous in a zerg and if you come across a big zerg you'll die anyway no matter if they spam snipe or not.
0 -
Maura_Neysa✭✭✭✭✭Maura_Neysa wrote: »Anti_Virus wrote: »Rework snipe to be a single target spammable(like force pulse) and this wouldn't be an issue.
Eww, no
Hahaah it already is a spammable while its bugged
Oh its definitely a spamable, but it has a cast time. 2H heavy cancel is far more... effective. Personally not sure I know of any bugs on AC though I play console.
Besides spaming snipe isn't very effective. For one, your best chance of actually landing snipe is that first shot.Maiden Maura - Xbox NA
Warden Ice Tank (By far my favorite) -RIP #NerfmireStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer(solo tanked), Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe,Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's CoadjutorDragon Knight Healer (Since Homestead)
MajorShehai Shatterer, Mageslayer,Warden 2x Bow DPSStormproof, Shehai Shatterer, Mageslayer, Ophidian Overlord, Assistant Alienist, Boethiah's Scythe, Maw of Lorkhaj Conqueror, Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor, Sunspire Saint,Others
PvP StamDen, Warden Healer, MagDen, Stamplar, StamSorc, DK Failed Attempt, NB Failed Attempt
Playing BiS isn't impressive, playing unique at BiS lvl, THAT's impressive.1 -
kendellking_chaosb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.
Hmm... GankvX? That's a new word. If I'm alone though and there's multiple opponents, isn't it 1vX as well? :thinking:
Ah, whatevs - irrelevant.
I get more kills in shorter amount of time than I do with my other builds currently, that's what matters in the end: efficiency.
Just trying to understand this "stigma" stealth gameplay has, where "ganking" becomes some pseudo-derogatory term for people.
I don’t use ganking as a derogatory term I actually love it. I strongly believe ganking should be a part of any real PvP. After all it’s a war zone riding alone or just having no defenses cause you relay on your group for your defense is dumb. Gankers who go in solo or at max a two man team are true gankers when 3-6 jump you from stealth it’s just weak.
I have gank builds for all 5 classes and I can stay you can make a wide range of powers efficient. I use Sword and Shield in three different gank builds. When you know what you’re doing nearly anything can be good for ganking.
I and I do believe most players call one guy taking on 5-10+ as 1vX. It’s not a 1vZerg fight if a Zerg just stops to chase a ganker. Searching and fighting or two different things. Yes snipe can be great from stealth or in a Zerg but the powers sucks on it’s own. Facing one person even just wait for the second cast and roll two shots at once.
Bow should be a good weapon point blank period. Not just from stealth or from the safety of a Zerg. To that point it’s not good saying it is only gives ZoS one more post to point at and say see bow is in a good place.Chaos Shadow-Scale: Shadow Archer
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Chaos Dragon-Scale: Draconic Shield Master
Chaos Light-Scale: Marsh Paladin
Chaos Lightning-Scale: Daedric Master
Hurricane Chaos: Storm Archer
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Forged-In-Dragon-Fire: Pyro Mage
Guardian of The Hist: Light Mender
Chaos of Black Marsh: Master of The Burning Sword
Star of Chaos: Frost Blade Champion
Chaos-Lightning-Tower: Lightning Shield Master
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May Sithis hold back his Void0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.
Hmm... GankvX? That's a new word. If I'm alone though and there's multiple opponents, isn't it 1vX as well? :thinking:
Ah, whatevs - irrelevant.
I get more kills in shorter amount of time than I do with my other builds currently, that's what matters in the end: efficiency.
Just trying to understand this "stigma" stealth gameplay has, where "ganking" becomes some pseudo-derogatory term for people.
I don’t use ganking as a derogatory term I actually love it. I strongly believe ganking should be a part of any real PvP. After all it’s a war zone riding alone or just having no defenses cause you relay on your group for your defense is dumb. Gankers who go in solo or at max a two man team are true gankers when 3-6 jump you from stealth it’s just weak.
I have gank builds for all 5 classes and I can stay you can make a wide range of powers efficient. I use Sword and Shield in three different gank builds. When you know what you’re doing nearly anything can be good for ganking.
I and I do believe most players call one guy taking on 5-10+ as 1vX. It’s not a 1vZerg fight if a Zerg just stops to chase a ganker. Searching and fighting or two different things. Yes snipe can be great from stealth or in a Zerg but the powers sucks on it’s own. Facing one person even just wait for the second cast and roll two shots at once.
Bow should be a good weapon point blank period. Not just from stealth or from the safety of a Zerg. To that point it’s not good saying it is only gives ZoS one more post to point at and say see bow is in a good place.
Gotcha. Sorry if I misconstrued your post.
Yes, I do agree bow needs numerous buffs/changes to see more build diversity & I hope my video isn't misinterpreted to mean that bow has no serious issues. I do hope however that it shows it's playable in a certain niche now & that people can enjoy a different playstyle than the ever-so-popular dodge roll spam oriented melee builds.
Currently it's very difficult/almost impossible to make it work effectively outside NB. And even on NB it's pretty much limited to open world stealth focused gameplay - duels for example don't tend to end too well...
Some suggestions in case anyone at ZOS happens to be reading:
Scatter Shot needs to be 28m range like Flame Reach.
It currently doesn't synergize with bow playstyle & toolkit which encourages you to stay at range (Long Shots passive, main burst tied to interruptable cast time ability etc). Also, all stamina builds apart from stamplar (Binding Javelin) lack a CC they can use (apart from the Tactician CP Off Balance heavy attack stun trick).
Arrow Spray needs to be undodgeable like Steel Tornado/Brawler.
Needs to be consistent with other AoE skills in the game. Also, bow currently has zero undodgeable abilities (even the ultimate can be dodged).
Snipe and Rapid Fire could swap places.
Making Snipe the ultimate would keep bow bursty though you'd have to work for it a bit more. Having Rapid Fire (Ballista morph would probably have to change a bit) as a spammable would make it much more reliable in non-stealth focused combat.
Long Shots passive should increase all damage, not just bow skills.
Would certainly make Wardens feel less silly while using Cutting Dive from distance & would keep Templar Javelin relevant if Scatter Shot had similar range. Would also make Relentless Focus hit a bit harder from long range, in case it for once doesn't get dodged (it is extremely telegraphed from long range).
Being a passive that scales with range, it wouldn't affect the more popular melee builds.
I would probably also change Hasty Retreat passive to give Minor Expedition instead, currently there's so many different ways of getting Major Expedition that the passive is redundant.
Minor Expedition is much less common and being able to move slightly faster with that *and* Major Expedition from another source would help bow builds maintain distance.
I think these changes would help bow builds & should also reduce the amount of complaints regarding multiple snipes desyncing etc.Edited by DDuke on April 1, 2018 4:30PM2 -
JobooAGS✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
OYou can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.
Hmm... GankvX? That's a new word. If I'm alone though and there's multiple opponents, isn't it 1vX as well? :thinking:
Ah, whatevs - irrelevant.
I get more kills in shorter amount of time than I do with my other builds currently, that's what matters in the end: efficiency.
Just trying to understand this "stigma" stealth gameplay has, where "ganking" becomes some pseudo-derogatory term for people.
I don’t use ganking as a derogatory term I actually love it. I strongly believe ganking should be a part of any real PvP. After all it’s a war zone riding alone or just having no defenses cause you relay on your group for your defense is dumb. Gankers who go in solo or at max a two man team are true gankers when 3-6 jump you from stealth it’s just weak.
I have gank builds for all 5 classes and I can stay you can make a wide range of powers efficient. I use Sword and Shield in three different gank builds. When you know what you’re doing nearly anything can be good for ganking.
I and I do believe most players call one guy taking on 5-10+ as 1vX. It’s not a 1vZerg fight if a Zerg just stops to chase a ganker. Searching and fighting or two different things. Yes snipe can be great from stealth or in a Zerg but the powers sucks on it’s own. Facing one person even just wait for the second cast and roll two shots at once.
Bow should be a good weapon point blank period. Not just from stealth or from the safety of a Zerg. To that point it’s not good saying it is only gives ZoS one more post to point at and say see bow is in a good place.
Gotcha. Sorry if I misconstrued your post.
Yes, I do agree bow needs numerous buffs/changes to see more build diversity & I hope my video isn't misinterpreted to mean that bow has no serious issues. I do hope however that it shows it's playable in a certain niche now & that people can enjoy a different playstyle than the ever-so-popular dodge roll spam oriented melee builds.
Currently it's very difficult/almost impossible to make it work effectively outside NB. And even on NB it's pretty much limited to open world stealth focused gameplay - duels for example don't tend to end too well...
Some suggestions in case anyone at ZOS happens to be reading:
Scatter Shot needs to be 28m range like Flame Reach.
It currently doesn't synergize with bow playstyle & toolkit which encourages you to stay at range (Long Shots passive, main burst tied to interruptable cast time ability etc). Also, all stamina builds apart from stamplar (Binding Javelin) lack a CC they can use (apart from the Tactician CP Off Balance heavy attack stun trick).
Arrow Spray needs to be undodgeable like Steel Tornado/Brawler.
Needs to be consistent with other AoE skills in the game. Also, bow currently has zero undodgeable abilities (even the ultimate can be dodged).
Snipe and Rapid Fire could swap places.
Making Snipe the ultimate would keep bow bursty though you'd have to work for it a bit more. Having Rapid Fire (Ballista morph would probably have to change a bit) as a spammable would make it much more reliable in non-stealth focused combat.
Long Shots passive should increase all damage, not just bow skills.
Would certainly make Wardens feel less silly while using Cutting Dive from distance & would keep Templar Javelin relevant if Scatter Shot had similar range. Would also make Relentless Focus hit a bit harder from long range, in case it for once doesn't get dodged (it is extremely telegraphed from long range).
Being a passive that scales with range, it wouldn't affect the more popular melee builds.
I would probably also change Hasty Retreat passive to give Minor Expedition instead, currently there's so many different ways of getting Major Expedition that the passive is redundant.
Minor Expedition is much less common and being able to move slightly faster with that *and* Major Expedition from another source would help bow builds maintain distance.
I think these changes would help bow builds & should also reduce the amount of complaints regarding multiple snipes desyncing etc.
All of this... please
Edit, perhaps the minor expedition would make stam sorcs redundant, especially bow/bow usersEdited by JobooAGS on April 1, 2018 8:35PM0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.
Hmm... GankvX? That's a new word. If I'm alone though and there's multiple opponents, isn't it 1vX as well? :thinking:
Ah, whatevs - irrelevant.
I get more kills in shorter amount of time than I do with my other builds currently, that's what matters in the end: efficiency.
Just trying to understand this "stigma" stealth gameplay has, where "ganking" becomes some pseudo-derogatory term for people.
Its not really a stigma. I think ganking (ESO def, not actual, which is just zerging) is fine and a part of the game. It allows people to diversify builds, both to gank, and to defend from them. But Its a comment on the effectiveness of bow for 1vX. Your playstyle isn't as difficult as normal 1vX, and neither is many of the bow playstyles. As the original comment states. Bow is a mainly Xv1 playstyle. Your changes will help change that.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Agree but for RP reasons I'll settle for having the skill take someone out of stealth the second they start casting rather than deleting the skillFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info1 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.
Hmm... GankvX? That's a new word. If I'm alone though and there's multiple opponents, isn't it 1vX as well? :thinking:
Ah, whatevs - irrelevant.
I get more kills in shorter amount of time than I do with my other builds currently, that's what matters in the end: efficiency.
Just trying to understand this "stigma" stealth gameplay has, where "ganking" becomes some pseudo-derogatory term for people.
I don’t use ganking as a derogatory term I actually love it. I strongly believe ganking should be a part of any real PvP. After all it’s a war zone riding alone or just having no defenses cause you relay on your group for your defense is dumb. Gankers who go in solo or at max a two man team are true gankers when 3-6 jump you from stealth it’s just weak.
I have gank builds for all 5 classes and I can stay you can make a wide range of powers efficient. I use Sword and Shield in three different gank builds. When you know what you’re doing nearly anything can be good for ganking.
I and I do believe most players call one guy taking on 5-10+ as 1vX. It’s not a 1vZerg fight if a Zerg just stops to chase a ganker. Searching and fighting or two different things. Yes snipe can be great from stealth or in a Zerg but the powers sucks on it’s own. Facing one person even just wait for the second cast and roll two shots at once.
Bow should be a good weapon point blank period. Not just from stealth or from the safety of a Zerg. To that point it’s not good saying it is only gives ZoS one more post to point at and say see bow is in a good place.
Gotcha. Sorry if I misconstrued your post.
Yes, I do agree bow needs numerous buffs/changes to see more build diversity & I hope my video isn't misinterpreted to mean that bow has no serious issues. I do hope however that it shows it's playable in a certain niche now & that people can enjoy a different playstyle than the ever-so-popular dodge roll spam oriented melee builds.
Currently it's very difficult/almost impossible to make it work effectively outside NB. And even on NB it's pretty much limited to open world stealth focused gameplay - duels for example don't tend to end too well...
Some suggestions in case anyone at ZOS happens to be reading:
Scatter Shot needs to be 28m range like Flame Reach.
It currently doesn't synergize with bow playstyle & toolkit which encourages you to stay at range (Long Shots passive, main burst tied to interruptable cast time ability etc). Also, all stamina builds apart from stamplar (Binding Javelin) lack a CC they can use (apart from the Tactician CP Off Balance heavy attack stun trick).
Arrow Spray needs to be undodgeable like Steel Tornado/Brawler.
Needs to be consistent with other AoE skills in the game. Also, bow currently has zero undodgeable abilities (even the ultimate can be dodged).
Snipe and Rapid Fire could swap places.
Making Snipe the ultimate would keep bow bursty though you'd have to work for it a bit more. Having Rapid Fire (Ballista morph would probably have to change a bit) as a spammable would make it much more reliable in non-stealth focused combat.
Long Shots passive should increase all damage, not just bow skills.
Would certainly make Wardens feel less silly while using Cutting Dive from distance & would keep Templar Javelin relevant if Scatter Shot had similar range. Would also make Relentless Focus hit a bit harder from long range, in case it for once doesn't get dodged (it is extremely telegraphed from long range).
Being a passive that scales with range, it wouldn't affect the more popular melee builds.
I would probably also change Hasty Retreat passive to give Minor Expedition instead, currently there's so many different ways of getting Major Expedition that the passive is redundant.
Minor Expedition is much less common and being able to move slightly faster with that *and* Major Expedition from another source would help bow builds maintain distance.
I think these changes would help bow builds & should also reduce the amount of complaints regarding multiple snipes desyncing etc.
I’d rather major expedition stay. Rather not chug pots on my Stamplar0 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.
Hmm... GankvX? That's a new word. If I'm alone though and there's multiple opponents, isn't it 1vX as well? :thinking:
Ah, whatevs - irrelevant.
I get more kills in shorter amount of time than I do with my other builds currently, that's what matters in the end: efficiency.
Just trying to understand this "stigma" stealth gameplay has, where "ganking" becomes some pseudo-derogatory term for people.
Its not really a stigma. I think ganking (ESO def, not actual, which is just zerging) is fine and a part of the game. It allows people to diversify builds, both to gank, and to defend from them. But Its a comment on the effectiveness of bow for 1vX. Your playstyle isn't as difficult as normal 1vX, and neither is many of the bow playstyles. As the original comment states. Bow is a mainly Xv1 playstyle. Your changes will help change that.
Well, that is sort of what I meant by stigma: there's a bunch of people getting practically one shot & stealther just restealthing, must be easy... right?
Except it's not. What I'm not showing on the video are the many, many times I fail miserably with this build: being out of position kills you, managing your resources (both magicka & stamina) badly kills you, missing a combo kills often gets you stuck in combat and kills you, Piercing Mark kills you, trying to kill too tanky opponent kills you (especially in 1vX), hitting some *** scamp or twilight with your Lethal Arrow instead of actual target kills you and so on and so on.
There are different aspects to the stealth gameplay - it may look easy from the surface, but it isn't.
I also played a relatively low regen (1,5k buffed) destro/resto light armor magicka DK last December, and I could honestly say the 1vX difficulty is around the same between that build and the bow build.
What I would actually consider easy are the meta rollerblade builds, and their popularity speaks for itself.
You spam dodge rolls & cloaks without ever running out of resources. Miss a combo? No problem, you can spam dodge rolls & cloaks until Incap & Relentless are up again and try again. It's incredibly forgiving, mistakes aren't punished & there's no resource management "minigame" at all.
What is considered "normal" 1vX these days essentially boils down to rolling around some tree or tower until the two button combo is up.
But yeah, that's just how I see it.
And just to be clear: I wouldn't even mind if stealth gameplay was more difficult - I love difficulty. Just as long as it can be rewarding too.
Also, I really hope they make bow gameplay more difficult for the 40m snipe spammers - that type of bow playstyle is easy (well, except the "getting kills" part unless you're Xv1'ing) and low risk since you have 40m+ buffer zone to target to help you escape if/when your 10k~ maximum burst fails to kill someone.0 -
griffkhalifa✭✭✭✭Abysswarrior45 wrote: »Wolfenbelle wrote: »Abysswarrior45 wrote: »Delete the skill and solo pvp and pvp in general would be 100x better. End rant.
When will PvP types get it through your heads that this game also has a PvE side? Seriously. Stop moaning and groaning because another player beats you in PvP. Stop asking for nerfs and removal of skills because you can't handle another player beating you in a video game. Grow up and get tough. Sheesh!
You use snipe in PvE? Lul.Tan9oSuccka wrote: »Archers on a keep wall should be deadly.
I’m not the best PVP person but L2P is snipe is a problem for you.
Jeez, you can hear the whistle a mile away.
No you can't hear it. You only hear it when you're dead and its not due to lag.
Yes, it is due to lag.PS4 NA0 -
Domander✭✭✭✭✭
✭kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
So your big point is that a build with with two bows is good with snipe yes if you build 100% for the bow and only bank then yes it great but that’s not everyone and that level of extreme is not needed to my other weapon skill lines strong.
Point was to disprove what the poster I responded to claimed:You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with itIt's useful only when already zerging an opponent leaving no chance for the outnumbered guy to fight back, due to the massive dmg.
That narrative is false. I actually do much better on a bow build in 1vX than with any of my melee builds at the moment.
Last thing I want to see is ZOS buff snipe damage because "it was only used in Xv1 and couldn't win anywhere else".
The only change to that skill I'd like to see is swapping its place with Rapid Fire (bow ultimate) so that it's no longer spammable, but bow still has access to that burst & now has a good spammable that would make it more viable in non-stealth combat.What is the thing about snipe that annoys us?
You can't win in a 1v1 with it
You can't win in a 2v1 with it
You can't certainly win in a 1vx with it
Are you sure about that?https://youtu.be/v1aqg6VJV54
I'm fully aware most don't use it efficiently, but there's no need to generalize.
Its certainly cool. But its just a series of ganks. Same as those 1 shot proc/onslaught builds would pick a few from an uncoordinated zerg, get 1/2 aggro, disappear and repeat. Its not really proper 1vX, where the X is all on you/looking for you.
They're looking for me in most of the clips though.
What I'd consider a series of ganks rather than 1vX is killing one target & then running away until your opponents give up & leave and you gank the next passer-by, but you're certainly entitled to your opinion. In the end what matters to me is that they're dead & I'm alive.
Starting 2m36s I do have a clip of what I'd consider a "series of ganks" on the video as well (except without the running away part). You also get to see what happens to a stealth oriented build when it's caught visible & out of position (made me laugh that death when it happened, because I totally deserved it).
It's not that different from how rollerblades play actually, they spam dodge rolls/cloaks around some tree and kill the pug that didn't get bored and leave when Incap+Relentless is up and then repeat.
See, they also depend on separating their targets (a medium armor build just can't take hits from multiple people at the same time) & taking them down one by one.
My build is more ranged/stealth oriented, but doesn't require Incap and Relentless and does far less dodge roll spamming (sustain being extremely limited).
It's more of an actual "rogue" or "assassin" style build than a "brawler", if that makes sense.
I just feel like there's a huge "stigma" when it comes to stealth oriented builds (especially ones utilizing bow) that makes people see them in negative light.
I have to agree with @ak_pvp you’re not fighting 1vX you’re ganking v X which is just not the same thing. When you say you 1vX better with bow then melee what you mean is you gank better at range ganking and fighting are very different.
Hmm... GankvX? That's a new word. If I'm alone though and there's multiple opponents, isn't it 1vX as well? :thinking:
Ah, whatevs - irrelevant.
I get more kills in shorter amount of time than I do with my other builds currently, that's what matters in the end: efficiency.
Just trying to understand this "stigma" stealth gameplay has, where "ganking" becomes some pseudo-derogatory term for people.
I don’t use ganking as a derogatory term I actually love it. I strongly believe ganking should be a part of any real PvP. After all it’s a war zone riding alone or just having no defenses cause you relay on your group for your defense is dumb. Gankers who go in solo or at max a two man team are true gankers when 3-6 jump you from stealth it’s just weak.
I have gank builds for all 5 classes and I can stay you can make a wide range of powers efficient. I use Sword and Shield in three different gank builds. When you know what you’re doing nearly anything can be good for ganking.
I and I do believe most players call one guy taking on 5-10+ as 1vX. It’s not a 1vZerg fight if a Zerg just stops to chase a ganker. Searching and fighting or two different things. Yes snipe can be great from stealth or in a Zerg but the powers sucks on it’s own. Facing one person even just wait for the second cast and roll two shots at once.
Bow should be a good weapon point blank period. Not just from stealth or from the safety of a Zerg. To that point it’s not good saying it is only gives ZoS one more post to point at and say see bow is in a good place.
Gotcha. Sorry if I misconstrued your post.
Yes, I do agree bow needs numerous buffs/changes to see more build diversity & I hope my video isn't misinterpreted to mean that bow has no serious issues. I do hope however that it shows it's playable in a certain niche now & that people can enjoy a different playstyle than the ever-so-popular dodge roll spam oriented melee builds.
Currently it's very difficult/almost impossible to make it work effectively outside NB. And even on NB it's pretty much limited to open world stealth focused gameplay - duels for example don't tend to end too well...
Some suggestions in case anyone at ZOS happens to be reading:
Scatter Shot needs to be 28m range like Flame Reach.
It currently doesn't synergize with bow playstyle & toolkit which encourages you to stay at range (Long Shots passive, main burst tied to interruptable cast time ability etc). Also, all stamina builds apart from stamplar (Binding Javelin) lack a CC they can use (apart from the Tactician CP Off Balance heavy attack stun trick).
Arrow Spray needs to be undodgeable like Steel Tornado/Brawler.
Needs to be consistent with other AoE skills in the game. Also, bow currently has zero undodgeable abilities (even the ultimate can be dodged).
Snipe and Rapid Fire could swap places.
Making Snipe the ultimate would keep bow bursty though you'd have to work for it a bit more. Having Rapid Fire (Ballista morph would probably have to change a bit) as a spammable would make it much more reliable in non-stealth focused combat.
Long Shots passive should increase all damage, not just bow skills.
Would certainly make Wardens feel less silly while using Cutting Dive from distance & would keep Templar Javelin relevant if Scatter Shot had similar range. Would also make Relentless Focus hit a bit harder from long range, in case it for once doesn't get dodged (it is extremely telegraphed from long range).
Being a passive that scales with range, it wouldn't affect the more popular melee builds.
I would probably also change Hasty Retreat passive to give Minor Expedition instead, currently there's so many different ways of getting Major Expedition that the passive is redundant.
Minor Expedition is much less common and being able to move slightly faster with that *and* Major Expedition from another source would help bow builds maintain distance.
I think these changes would help bow builds & should also reduce the amount of complaints regarding multiple snipes desyncing etc.
I would say no to minor expedition from bow, it would cripple my archer.
You can get weapon crit from a pot OR expedition, and from most skills that give major expedition the speed buff has a really short duration.0
