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Are DK's viable in PVP at the moment?
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Grimlok_S✭✭✭✭✭Nothing more satisfying as stamdk than beating the fotm hoppers,
https://youtu.be/CpIyqkVDkW4All those stam DK's claiming its the weakest spec - I dont see that. IMO every stam spec is above magplar/magden/magdk for solo pvp.
I'd bet on a magplar over stamdk. The way eclipse interacts with volatile can make for some really whacky burst.
I'd double that bet for a magdk.
I don’t think this is very representative of anything... you’re winning a 1v1 against a player that is so new to the class that he either A. Hasn’t unlocked vigor yet or B. Doesn’t use vigor and hasn’t figured out how to break roots or use forward momentum.
Mm, fair. He vigours, but the point was to show the naysayers that the class isn't the total dumpster fire they claim, or that every engagement against a warden isn't a predetermined game of rock paper scissors. Sporting a paragon title, I guess I thought more of it.
I've been absolutely flattened by some leap knights as well.
Don't let your dreams be memes, OP.
Light Attack Hero
Class contextStamplar
StamDK
Stamsorc
MagDK
StamMAGStamden
Magplar
Stam NB
Bomb NB1 -
ChildOfLight✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »ChildOfLight wrote: »Blobs streaming right now.
Ask him to show his lash tooltip.
honestly on the flame lash topic, you could give stamDKs a flame lash that has like 10k tooltip at 4k weapon damage, and it would still be better than dizzying swing for them.
Flame lash is VERY strong, but its one of the only things left good about magDk, and it recently took a nerf too.
I do agree with the first sentence and disagree with the second one.
Passive skills and many active ones are way too much committed to a magika spec (burning vs poisoned right now is a joke. Same for Pietry access to stamina specs)
And this is one of the reasons stamDK heavily lacks of identity.
When devs undertook the way of dividing the class into magika specification fire based and the stamina Poison based one, I felt it was a step in the right direction. But it seems this kind of project was left halfway.
Edited by ChildOfLight on March 30, 2018 5:36PMPC EU
Ross Campano - Imperial Dragonknight - Tanks and steals stuff from barrels2 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ChildOfLight wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »ChildOfLight wrote: »Blobs streaming right now.
Ask him to show his lash tooltip.
honestly on the flame lash topic, you could give stamDKs a flame lash that has like 10k tooltip at 4k weapon damage, and it would still be better than dizzying swing for them.
Flame lash is VERY strong, but its one of the only things left good about magDk, and it recently took a nerf too.
I do agree with the first sentence and disagree with the second one.
Passive skills and many active ones are way too much committed to a magika spec (burning vs poisoned right now is a joke. Same for Pietry access to stamina specs)
And this is one of the reasons stamDK heavily lacks of identity.
When devs undertook the way of dividing the class into magika specification fire based and the stamina Poison based one, I felt it was a step in the right direction. But it seems this kind of project was left halfway.
There is too much mag>stam in the game right now. But that doesn't mean that MagDK has a lot going for it. Everything else can be replicated or beat on some other class. Flame lash is the only MagDK ability that other classes (situationally) would take over their own version. Leap, too but that is an ult+stam has too.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.0 -
Skoomah✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stam DK is viable but not competitive when stacked up against other classes. Yes, you can get kills, but other classes are much better at getting 1vX's going.
Nightblades weave in and out of cloak, and set the terms of a battle at will.
Sorcerors can tank up with shields and teleport circles around you while blowing people up in seconds.
Wardens. They have everything in their kit. Strong damage, heals, tackiness, sustain, mobility. Pay to win in my opinion.
Templars have crazy healing still and can turtle up and basically keep a fight going long enough until backup comes to save their ass. Jabs damage when built right can melt multiple opponents at once.
Stam DK options for damage include wrecking blow spam that is not a reliable source of damage and easily gets countered with opponents who have good movement. Dot damage in general takes too long to apply and ramp up. That's because we don't have superior tankiness or sustain to wait for the dots to reach maximum potential. We don't have a reliable or strong spammable. The healing on Stam DKs aren't strong enough to keep us in the fight without lots of line of sight action. And we don't have built in mobility to efficiently reposition to increase survivability.
The original DKs were meant to be front line warriors that walk up to you and smash your face in. They had superior tankiness and sustain to last long enough to get the kill. DKs don't run away from a fight and don't hide behind a tree because their mobility was bad. So when DKs survived the trip to get up and personal, we could do some serious damage. And the other classes could cloak, streak, and do crazy heals to survive it.
ZOS has toned down our tankiness, sustain, damage, mobility, and healing by nerfing skills, passives, sets, etc. So we're no longer the warriors that can walk up to you and smash your face in. We're like peasant farmers with pitchforks.
Viable? Yes
Competitive? No
Edited by Skoomah on March 30, 2018 7:32PM12 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Stam DK is viable but not competitive when stacked up against other classes. Yes, you can get kills, but other classes are much better at getting 1vX's going.
Nightblades weave in and out of cloak, and set the terms of a battle at will.
Sorcerors can tank up with shields and teleport circles around you while blowing people up in seconds.
Wardens. They have everything in their kit. Strong damage, heals, tackiness, sustain, mobility. Pay to win in my opinion.
Templars have crazy healing still and can turtle up and basically keep a fight going long enough until backup comes to save their ass. Jabs damage when built right can melt multiple opponents at once.
Stam DK options for damage include wrecking blow spam that is not a reliable source of damage and easily gets countered with opponents who have good movement. Dot damage in general takes too long to apply and ramp up. That's because we don't have superior tankiness or sustain to wait for the dots to reach maximum potential. We don't have a reliable or strong spammable. The healing on Stam DKs aren't strong enough to keep us in the fight without lots of line of sight action. And we don't have built in mobility to efficiently reposition to increase survivability.
The original DKs were meant to be front line warriors that walk up to you and smash your face in. They had superior tankiness and sustain to last long enough to get the kill. DKs don't run away from a fight and don't hide behind a tree because their mobility was bad. So when DKs survived the trip to get up and personal, we could do some serious damage. And the other classes could cloak, streak, and do crazy heals to survive it.
ZOS has toned down our tankiness, sustain, damage, mobility, and healing by nerfing skills, passives, sets, etc. So we're no longer the warriors that can walk up to you and smash your face in. We're like peasant farmers with pitchforks.
Viable? Yes
Competitive? No
Correct.
Only viable stamDK build is SnB with Forward momentum. Every other class can play a bleed build better.3 -
Ocelot9x✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Stam DK is viable but not competitive when stacked up against other classes. Yes, you can get kills, but other classes are much better at getting 1vX's going.
Nightblades weave in and out of cloak, and set the terms of a battle at will.
Sorcerors can tank up with shields and teleport circles around you while blowing people up in seconds.
Wardens. They have everything in their kit. Strong damage, heals, tackiness, sustain, mobility. Pay to win in my opinion.
Templars have crazy healing still and can turtle up and basically keep a fight going long enough until backup comes to save their ass. Jabs damage when built right can melt multiple opponents at once.
Stam DK options for damage include wrecking blow spam that is not a reliable source of damage and easily gets countered with opponents who have good movement. Dot damage in general takes too long to apply and ramp up. That's because we don't have superior tankiness or sustain to wait for the dots to reach maximum potential. We don't have a reliable or strong spammable. The healing on Stam DKs aren't strong enough to keep us in the fight without lots of line of sight action. And we don't have built in mobility to efficiently reposition to increase survivability.
The original DKs were meant to be front line warriors that walk up to you and smash your face in. They had superior tankiness and sustain to last long enough to get the kill. DKs don't run away from a fight and don't hide behind a tree because their mobility was bad. So when DKs survived the trip to get up and personal, we could do some serious damage. And the other classes could cloak, streak, and do crazy heals to survive it.
ZOS has toned down our tankiness, sustain, damage, mobility, and healing by nerfing skills, passives, sets, etc. So we're no longer the warriors that can walk up to you and smash your face in. We're like peasant farmers with pitchforks.
Viable? Yes
Competitive? No
Correct.
Only viable stamDK build is SnB with Forward momentum. Every other class can play a bleed build better.
Nah I play mine with medium and it's really tanky while having lot of damage. What really killed the stam dk is that stamwarden is a thing.
Sometimes I feel like I'm penalizing my group by logging my dk and not my warden
2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 31, 2018 2:47AM4 -
Thraben✭✭✭✭✭Is it useful to have a DK in PVP right now? Or am I better off using a different class in PVP?
I have a DK stam tank, I am thinking about making it into a more support role
The only support role I can think of for a stam DK in groups larger three is using Vanguards Challenge to debuff, maybe even using guard in a flexible way, like a healer. This is outrageously hard to play, though, and in 11 months, I´ve found no one who would willingly do this.
You will also be expected to apply rapid manoevers, so a huge stamreg would be required.
Generally, StamSupport is the core area of Wardens in groups smaller than 8, and of StamSorcs in groups larger than 8.Edited by Thraben on March 31, 2018 2:03PMHauptmann der Dolche des Königs
DDK ist die letzte Verteidigungslinie des Dolchsturz- Bündnisses auf der 30-Tage-No-CP- Kampagne(EU) mit dem Anspruch, in kleinen, anfängerfreundlichen Raid-Gruppen möglichst epische Schlachten auszufechten.
DDK is the Daggerfall Covenant´s last line of defense on the 30 days no-cp campaign (EU). We intend to fight epic battles in small, casual player friendly raid groups.1 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.1 -
Grimlok_S✭✭✭✭✭WaltherCarraway wrote: »Not competitive.
In what setting?Light Attack Hero
Class contextStamplar
StamDK
Stamsorc
MagDK
StamMAGStamden
Magplar
Stam NB
Bomb NB0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 1, 2018 3:08PM3 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.
Implying stamDK and stamsorc are just as mobile. (just false info right there)
Implying stamsorc sustain is worse than stamDk. ( unless both targets are blocking, stamsorc will have better sustain.)
I don't know what to tell you. I do think you really need to work on your stamsorc build. If you completely rely on dark deal or battle roar your build is bad either way.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 1, 2018 4:22PM4 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.
Implying stamDK and stamsorc are just as mobile. (just false info right there)
Implying stamsorc sustain is worse than stamDk. ( unless both targets are blocking, stamsorc will have better sustain.)
I don't know what to tell you. I do think you really need to work on your stamsorc build. If you completely rely on dark deal or battle roar your build is bad either way.
My whole point has been that I think both are in a great spot. Why would I think that if I had terrible builds? Wouldn't I be frustrated and say both are in a terrible spot?
If you get ult fast enough on at stam dk you can get away with using 1200-1300 stam recovery.
If you dark deal intermittently and after cc breaking you can get away with 600-700 recovery on a stam sorc. Aka put nothing into it. I've played my stamsorc this way for years.0 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.
Implying stamDK and stamsorc are just as mobile. (just false info right there)
Implying stamsorc sustain is worse than stamDk. ( unless both targets are blocking, stamsorc will have better sustain.)
I don't know what to tell you. I do think you really need to work on your stamsorc build. If you completely rely on dark deal or battle roar your build is bad either way.
My whole point has been that I think both are in a great spot. Why would I think that if I had terrible builds? Wouldn't I be frustrated and say both are in a terrible spot?
If you get ult fast enough on at stam dk you can get away with using 1200-1300 stam recovery.
If you dark deal intermittently and after cc breaking you can get away with 600-700 recovery on a stam sorc. Aka put nothing into it. I've played my stamsorc this way for years.
You are further proving my point. 1300 stam regen vs 600-700. Why are you building more into sustain on a class with ''better sustain and tankyness''?
You think Dk is viable? Fair enough. That is an opinion.
However I disagree, and I think I have the mathematical proof as to why it is not viable.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 1, 2018 5:54PM4 -
Emothic✭✭✭✭I wished I never chose a DK. Should of went with a Templar or NB class. And since I only have enough time to play one class, I'm stuck with this damn DK.Lord Emothic Von Hellsing of ze Hellsing Family.
Dragon Knight of the Ebonheart Pact. Xbox One - NA2 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.
Implying stamDK and stamsorc are just as mobile. (just false info right there)
Implying stamsorc sustain is worse than stamDk. ( unless both targets are blocking, stamsorc will have better sustain.)
I don't know what to tell you. I do think you really need to work on your stamsorc build. If you completely rely on dark deal or battle roar your build is bad either way.
My whole point has been that I think both are in a great spot. Why would I think that if I had terrible builds? Wouldn't I be frustrated and say both are in a terrible spot?
If you get ult fast enough on at stam dk you can get away with using 1200-1300 stam recovery.
If you dark deal intermittently and after cc breaking you can get away with 600-700 recovery on a stam sorc. Aka put nothing into it. I've played my stamsorc this way for years.
You are further proving my point. 1300 stam regen vs 600-700. Why are you building more into sustain on a class with ''better sustain and tankyness''?
You think Dk is viable? Fair enough. That is an opinion.
However I disagree, and I think I have the mathematical proof as to why it is not viable.
"Better sustain in a prolonged fight" that's what I said. The difference in better sustain comes from survivability during alot of pressure. Which the dk wins.
I have more recovery on a dk because I dont get as much stam back immediately like I do on my stamsorc through dark deal, so I have to make up for it in stam recovery.
If I had the exact same recovery on my stamsorc I would loose alot of damage and self healing and not be able to apply the amount of pressure I can currently. I get away with less damage on my dk because it's less squishy. The strength of a stamsorc is offensive pressure.
I don't see why any of that sounds crazy. Your math saying dk isn't viable doesn't match up with my personal experiences.
0 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.
Implying stamDK and stamsorc are just as mobile. (just false info right there)
Implying stamsorc sustain is worse than stamDk. ( unless both targets are blocking, stamsorc will have better sustain.)
I don't know what to tell you. I do think you really need to work on your stamsorc build. If you completely rely on dark deal or battle roar your build is bad either way.
My whole point has been that I think both are in a great spot. Why would I think that if I had terrible builds? Wouldn't I be frustrated and say both are in a terrible spot?
If you get ult fast enough on at stam dk you can get away with using 1200-1300 stam recovery.
If you dark deal intermittently and after cc breaking you can get away with 600-700 recovery on a stam sorc. Aka put nothing into it. I've played my stamsorc this way for years.
You are further proving my point. 1300 stam regen vs 600-700. Why are you building more into sustain on a class with ''better sustain and tankyness''?
You think Dk is viable? Fair enough. That is an opinion.
However I disagree, and I think I have the mathematical proof as to why it is not viable.
"Better sustain in a prolonged fight" that's what I said. The difference in better sustain comes from survivability during alot of pressure. Which the dk wins.
I have more recovery on a dk because I dont get as much stam back immediately like I do on my stamsorc through dark deal, so I have to make up for it in stam recovery.
If I had the exact same recovery on my stamsorc I would loose alot of damage and self healing and not be able to apply the amount of pressure I can currently. I get away with less damage on my dk because it's less squishy. The strength of a stamsorc is offensive pressure.
I don't see why any of that sounds crazy. Your math saying dk isn't viable doesn't match up with my personal experiences.
So if Stam DK is competitive, which of the five Stam specs would you say is the least competitive?PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp0 -
Brrrofski✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Viable? Absolutely. I run medium on mine and do fine.
Saying that though, I have better results overall on every other Stam class....0 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.
Implying stamDK and stamsorc are just as mobile. (just false info right there)
Implying stamsorc sustain is worse than stamDk. ( unless both targets are blocking, stamsorc will have better sustain.)
I don't know what to tell you. I do think you really need to work on your stamsorc build. If you completely rely on dark deal or battle roar your build is bad either way.
My whole point has been that I think both are in a great spot. Why would I think that if I had terrible builds? Wouldn't I be frustrated and say both are in a terrible spot?
If you get ult fast enough on at stam dk you can get away with using 1200-1300 stam recovery.
If you dark deal intermittently and after cc breaking you can get away with 600-700 recovery on a stam sorc. Aka put nothing into it. I've played my stamsorc this way for years.
You are further proving my point. 1300 stam regen vs 600-700. Why are you building more into sustain on a class with ''better sustain and tankyness''?
You think Dk is viable? Fair enough. That is an opinion.
However I disagree, and I think I have the mathematical proof as to why it is not viable.
"Better sustain in a prolonged fight" that's what I said. The difference in better sustain comes from survivability during alot of pressure. Which the dk wins.
I have more recovery on a dk because I dont get as much stam back immediately like I do on my stamsorc through dark deal, so I have to make up for it in stam recovery.
If I had the exact same recovery on my stamsorc I would loose alot of damage and self healing and not be able to apply the amount of pressure I can currently. I get away with less damage on my dk because it's less squishy. The strength of a stamsorc is offensive pressure.
I don't see why any of that sounds crazy. Your math saying dk isn't viable doesn't match up with my personal experiences.
So if Stam DK is competitive, which of the five Stam specs would you say is the least competitive?
The way I see it they are all useful. For the most part they are all pretty equal. Different classes have different strengths so it really comes down to personal preference.
Wardens being the exception. Its hard to argue wardens aren't in the best spot right now. Only class thats has major heroism, major mending, a delayed move to combine with wrecking blow/dawnbreaker, and a healing ult. All these things combined is quite the floor raiser.
But that doesnt mean the other stam classes are completely useless. Just my two cents.
0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.
Implying stamDK and stamsorc are just as mobile. (just false info right there)
Implying stamsorc sustain is worse than stamDk. ( unless both targets are blocking, stamsorc will have better sustain.)
I don't know what to tell you. I do think you really need to work on your stamsorc build. If you completely rely on dark deal or battle roar your build is bad either way.
My whole point has been that I think both are in a great spot. Why would I think that if I had terrible builds? Wouldn't I be frustrated and say both are in a terrible spot?
If you get ult fast enough on at stam dk you can get away with using 1200-1300 stam recovery.
If you dark deal intermittently and after cc breaking you can get away with 600-700 recovery on a stam sorc. Aka put nothing into it. I've played my stamsorc this way for years.
You are further proving my point. 1300 stam regen vs 600-700. Why are you building more into sustain on a class with ''better sustain and tankyness''?
You think Dk is viable? Fair enough. That is an opinion.
However I disagree, and I think I have the mathematical proof as to why it is not viable.
"Better sustain in a prolonged fight" that's what I said. The difference in better sustain comes from survivability during alot of pressure. Which the dk wins.
I have more recovery on a dk because I dont get as much stam back immediately like I do on my stamsorc through dark deal, so I have to make up for it in stam recovery.
If I had the exact same recovery on my stamsorc I would loose alot of damage and self healing and not be able to apply the amount of pressure I can currently. I get away with less damage on my dk because it's less squishy. The strength of a stamsorc is offensive pressure.
I don't see why any of that sounds crazy. Your math saying dk isn't viable doesn't match up with my personal experiences.
So if Stam DK is competitive, which of the five Stam specs would you say is the least competitive?
The way I see it they are all useful. For the most part they are all pretty equal. Different classes have different strengths so it really comes down to personal preference.
Wardens being the exception. Its hard to argue wardens aren't in the best spot right now. Only class thats has major heroism, major mending, a delayed move to combine with wrecking blow/dawnbreaker, and a healing ult. All these things combined is quite the floor raiser.
But that doesnt mean the other stam classes are completely useless. Just my two cents.
Wardens are very strong, like they took a possibly weak/average class, and just toned everything up, so they could manage every role, but then didn't realize the impact on PvP where everything collides and then add in stam strengths. (Stamsorc/DK very reliant on weapon skills for total damage.) but I wouldn't quite put them best. They can be hardcountered by just avoiding their burst. Spin round them and block their dizzies, CC on CD. Only truly scary when in a group.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.1 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
Its not about the number of useful passives you get. Its about the overall strength you get from them.
I agree stamsorc has some passives that are useless to them. and the %20 hp/stam regen is only useful if you slot bound armaments.
That being said the DK is only tankier and only has better sustain when both targets are blocking
and other than that stamDK has it very weak in the passives department compared to stamdens.
Which is why Dks are pigeonholed into SnB. The class is all about blocking, meanwhile stamsorc is free.
And the mobility is very powerful tool.
You are free to use whatever you want on your stamsorc, and your passives will create you no problems whatsoever.
Its the freedom of choice that stamsorcs don't really understand how valueable it is. That same freedom is just an illusion for Dks.
I would argue that there is still a freedom of choice for stam dks. I dont use 1h/shield at all. I basically use the same build between my stamsorc and stam dk and the difference is that while my stamsorc hits harder my stam dk has better overall resource management and survivability in a prolonged fight. Which is mainly because I rely on dark deal on my stam sorc. In a pinch it gets stressful, on my stam dk I can just ult and carry on. Both are just as mobile in medium armor.
Comparing it to warden though, yea stam dk looses. So I see your point.
Still think dks are very much viable.
Implying stamDK and stamsorc are just as mobile. (just false info right there)
Implying stamsorc sustain is worse than stamDk. ( unless both targets are blocking, stamsorc will have better sustain.)
I don't know what to tell you. I do think you really need to work on your stamsorc build. If you completely rely on dark deal or battle roar your build is bad either way.
My whole point has been that I think both are in a great spot. Why would I think that if I had terrible builds? Wouldn't I be frustrated and say both are in a terrible spot?
If you get ult fast enough on at stam dk you can get away with using 1200-1300 stam recovery.
If you dark deal intermittently and after cc breaking you can get away with 600-700 recovery on a stam sorc. Aka put nothing into it. I've played my stamsorc this way for years.
You are further proving my point. 1300 stam regen vs 600-700. Why are you building more into sustain on a class with ''better sustain and tankyness''?
You think Dk is viable? Fair enough. That is an opinion.
However I disagree, and I think I have the mathematical proof as to why it is not viable.
"Better sustain in a prolonged fight" that's what I said. The difference in better sustain comes from survivability during alot of pressure. Which the dk wins.
I have more recovery on a dk because I dont get as much stam back immediately like I do on my stamsorc through dark deal, so I have to make up for it in stam recovery.
If I had the exact same recovery on my stamsorc I would loose alot of damage and self healing and not be able to apply the amount of pressure I can currently. I get away with less damage on my dk because it's less squishy. The strength of a stamsorc is offensive pressure.
I don't see why any of that sounds crazy. Your math saying dk isn't viable doesn't match up with my personal experiences.
So if Stam DK is competitive, which of the five Stam specs would you say is the least competitive?
The way I see it they are all useful. For the most part they are all pretty equal. Different classes have different strengths so it really comes down to personal preference.
Wardens being the exception. Its hard to argue wardens aren't in the best spot right now. Only class thats has major heroism, major mending, a delayed move to combine with wrecking blow/dawnbreaker, and a healing ult. All these things combined is quite the floor raiser.
But that doesnt mean the other stam classes are completely useless. Just my two cents.
Wardens are very strong, like they took a possibly weak/average class, and just toned everything up, so they could manage every role, but then didn't realize the impact on PvP where everything collides and then add in stam strengths. (Stamsorc/DK very reliant on weapon skills for total damage.) but I wouldn't quite put them best. They can be hardcountered by just avoiding their burst. Spin round them and block their dizzies, CC on CD. Only truly scary when in a group.
stamden is hard countered by stamblades, and also defiles. Obviously both of the things I mention are OVERPERFORMING, So warden seems a little weaker than it actually is.Edited by Ragnarock41 on April 2, 2018 2:18AM0 -
The_Brosteen✭✭✭✭✭
Wardens are very strong, like they took a possibly weak/average class, and just toned everything up, so they could manage every role, but then didn't realize the impact on PvP where everything collides and then add in stam strengths. (Stamsorc/DK very reliant on weapon skills for total damage.) but I wouldn't quite put them best. They can be hardcountered by just avoiding their burst. Spin round them and block their dizzies, CC on CD. Only truly scary when in a group.
Very true. Especially in no cp environments like battlegrounds a warden 1v1 is pretty easy to beat because most of them do exactly the same thing. But they still have more utility which makes surviving alot easier on one.
I wonder how the new psijic skill line will shake things up.0 -
Rainingblood✭✭✭The_Brosteen wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »The_Brosteen wrote: »Viable? Yes. If you’re a better player than your opponent then you’ll win. This game is well-enough balanced that skill trumps class choice.
But just because you can be viable on any character doesn’t mean that Stam DK is good. Many people, myself included, consider it the weakest class / spec for PvP at the moment. If you’re good you can still kill and win with it, but that same player would be even more effective on any other class.
Stam dk and mag dk are incredibly strong right now. The class synergizes well using sword and board as well as heavy armor. It has enough survivability with class passives that allow it to thrive in medium or light as well, which makes it very powerful.
I agree skill does supersede class but this class has so many useful tools at its disposal it's hard to say it's not in a good spot. Right now stam nb seems to be the flavor of the week based on the nerf threads, dks having major mending essentially cancels out defile from incap strike. So in "the current meta" dks are not only viable but very useful. Not to mention the group utility with cc's.
I strongly disagree with many of your points.
1. A heavy armor Stam DK will have to either give up the rally heal or will be snared / rooted for most fights against good players
2. Major mending is not a counter to major defile. Major vitality, damage shields, and vanish are the counters to major defile.
3. You will have serious mag sustain issues if you’re running petrify and igneous along with your other buffs on a Stam DK
4. Mag DKs have never been weaker than right now
5. The class passives are the worst in the game. They are certainly the least used of any class and they provide the least DPS increase of any class for Stam DKs.
6. A Stam DK’s only real advantages were 1. Permablocking 2. Healing received 3. Sustain. All have been nerfed significantly in the last year (befoul increase being the nerf to healing received)
7. Leap is still fun though
1. You can use dragons blood as a burst heal. I know its not as good as rally. But I've seen people make it work in order to use heavy.
2. For self healing it is a counter. Decrease healing recieved increase healing done.... To yourself. I'm sure i could be wrong about it mathmatically but don't try and tell me major mending doesnt help quite a bit.
3. I have no sustain issue on my stam dk running igneos hardened armor and fossilize.
4. Comparatively sure you can make that arguement. They're still very good though. Thats like saying sorcs are at they're worst.
5. They're passives mainly provide more tankiness. Worst in the game? I'd argue that title belongs to stam sorcs.
6. Cc ability is still there and sustain while nerfed is still goof especially paired with the right sets.
7. Absolutely
IF you truly think that stamsorc passives are the worst you shouldn't be talking about balance arguments.
The only thing stamDK outperforms stamsorc at , is healing received. For literally everything else stamsorc wins atm.
Literally everything else is not true.
Dks have better passives for blocking, resource management, resistences, crowd control, poison damage.
Stamsorcs get passives for weapon damage, cheeper ult, and an execute proc.
There are a few passives that I put 0 points into on my stamsorc because they are literally useless. I have all my passives unlocked on my stam dk. Thats mainly my point.
To clarify I think both are still in a great spot. I dont see what all the fuss is about.
I think you are basing all your opinions on tooltip info and theory, not actual play. Because if you think that DK passives help with everything you mentioned they do, you are factually mistaken. And the simple fact that you state that both stamDKs and mDKs are "still in a great spot" makes me question your advice to the OP.Phoebe Anderson2
