Everybody desperately needs DB in their bars. DB needs to be restricted and then replaced.

everyelegantword · March 2018

Dawnbreaker is absolutely one of the ONLY skills in the game that is actually well balanced. By moving it to DW you would force people to DW in order to get an actual good and useful Ultimate. You're obviously not interested in balancing all classes' Ultimates, because you're just moving a skill from a skill like that everyone can use, to a skill line dedicated to a weapon.... that.... everyone can still use, but that will consign everyone to using that weapon. Part of the reason DB IS balanced is that it can be used by anyone no matter their build or class. As far as its strength against Vampires/Werewolves, well.... for the most part as a player that has multiple magicka vampires and a couple of werewolves that I've taken into PvP settings... I've never found Dawnbreaker to be a problem for me, unless a zerg has CC'd me 6 times over and I'm out of stamina. In fact, most of my characters, stamina AND magicka, can heal through the DB dot, with just a couple presses of a button. Most ultimates in this game leave something to be desired but as far as a DD is concerned DB is easily the best, though my main doesn't use it on both bars, because the Bow Ultimate is incredibly useful to her, and I tend to use ultimates as a way to regain resources and give myself a breath in the middle of a fight. so support ultimates are also often on my characters' bars.

Brrrofski · March 2018

Well all Stam NBs use Incap.

A lot of Stam DKs use leap.

Fair few stamplars use sweep.

It's only warden and Stam sorcs that all use DB. That's because they have no other options.

Sugaroverdose · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another magicka character crying that stamina has something he doesnt.

Get over it, not all things are or need to be equal.

lmao, i still remember how stampeople cried on forums about making downbraker to do physical damage.
Now when stamina cannibalised half of magicka skills and get superior heal, burst and sustain they now says "not all things are or need to be equal" f you made my day, can stop laughing

josiahva · March 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

There is a tldr.

Every stamina class uses Dawnbreaker.

Dawnbreaker has 2 perfect morphs. 2 ACTIVE functions. However there are 2 issues that make it overperform and this must be addressed (and I will make a suggestion)
1)PASSIVE stats make it BiS. It boosts dmg against vampires. (I am not a vampire btw)
2)It can be used with EVERY STAMINA WEAPON. Unrestricted. Undisputed. Unchecked. And it is SUCH an easy skill to use.

Dawnbreaker is an aggressive skill. Very strong. I suggest 2 things:

1)Dawnbreaker is moved to DW. It belongs there. It improves DW in PvP. It should be renamed and the animation should be something like an anime bladedance/tornado.
I would also suggest that the CC is removed or changed to a soft "push" effect like the good old templar spammable. AoE.
The heal overtime and not as easy to perform action of the DW ultimate hinders DW. It doesnt belong in that playstyle.
In that way the old Dawnbreaker will not be the scourge that it is today, and DW would recieve a boost.
Enough with the passive playstyle of DW. It's all about stats (bonus piece/dmg/passive bleed) and no action. Remove bleed if it ends up overperforming.

2)Dawn breaker becomes something else. It is not BiS anymore.
It should be one morph physical 1 morph magic. No CC.
Animation/artwork. No more ground smash. It should become a slice in the sky. Similar to what DW ulti looks like but more dramatic. It should cut through the night sky and hit those vampires.
Not as easy to perform as the old mechanism. More balanced.
One morf should retain the old heal over time. The hope of Dawn.

Tldr
Dawnbreaker should become the new DW ulty with a different animation and no CC.

The DW ulty should become the new Dawnbreaker to ease off on vampires and to stop all stamina chars from slotting it.

Thats patently ridiculous, dawnbreaker is fine the way it is...just as its counterpart meteor is for the same reasons.

mikemacon · March 2018

I main magsorc.

Put me down into the "it's fine as it is" camp.

Luckylancer · March 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

"Lets nerf every stam class that isn't DK or Nightblade"

How about no.

Ask for a usefull ulty for your class

Dk have leap. Boht db and leap are finishers.

Sergykid · March 2018

make templar ult worth and i'll use that. It's not like i use dawnbreaker by choice. Well, i do, but not my choice. The other classes have worth ults, like leap or incap. Warden is unkillable with that big green tree.

Nelson_Rebel · March 2018

This was actually incredibly entertaining to read through this thread

The OP is wrong on so many levels but when someone makes a valid point or a relevant comparison

He goes

"hey oi that information is correct and
contradicts my personal agenda, stop talking because...because I said so"

This is absolutely hilarious

Rohamad_Ali · March 2018

Enslaved wrote: »

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Read the OP. Adapt. Open topics to improve stamDK.
Stop clinging to BiS.

New, modern sDK.

Chocked on my coffee .

Nelson_Rebel · March 2018

Also I main a Mag Dk

And this thread makes absolutely Zero sense lol.

Dawnbreaker is almost the exaxt counterpart to Meteor. They both are countered by block,
they both can't be dodged (normally) and both give passive and active effects for slotting them.

The skill is a GUILD ultimate for melee warriors not "duel wield only" Duel wield HAS an ultimate already.

Dawnbreaker is fine as it is. I have a stamblade and a Stam warden, Both do NOT use dawnbreaker. Or even slot it.

I kill people using dawnbreaker every day because the skill has clear counters

griffkhalifa · March 2018

I don't have a problem with the ultimate but I do have a problem with the fact that I can't even see the fact that I get hit with it most of the time. It will just randomly show up on my kill recap and I didn't even see one go off...

Chilly-McFreeze · March 2018

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another magicka character crying that stamina has something he doesnt.

Get over it, not all things are or need to be equal.

lmao, i still remember how stampeople cried on forums about making downbraker to do physical damage.
Now when stamina cannibalised half of magicka skills and get superior heal, burst and sustain they now says "not all things are or need to be equal" f you made my day, can stop laughing

Tell me, back before the physical version of dawnbreaker, back before weapon ultimates, what was your advise to run on a stam sorc or a stamplar?

Hurika · March 2018

They aren't called "mediocres" they are called "ultimates" for a reason.

It's on par with meteor but different and DIFFERENT IS OK.

If you want to buff DW, make the ultimate a melee/stam version of storm (destro ult) and call it "Rain of blades" where daggers fall from they sky. Or something different and DIFFERENT IS OK.

StaticWave · March 2018

Dawnbreaker is perfectly balanced so ZOS should not touch it. It's the only worthwhile offensive ult for most stamina builds (with the exception of Nbs and Dks who have a good class offensive ult). Magicka builds have a lot of good offensive ults like meteor, soul assault, destro ult, overload, atronach, negate, leap, standard, soul tether, permafrost, etc. If they rework DB everyone will quit PvPing.

Sugaroverdose · March 2018

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Another magicka character crying that stamina has something he doesnt.

Get over it, not all things are or need to be equal.

lmao, i still remember how stampeople cried on forums about making downbraker to do physical damage.
Now when stamina cannibalised half of magicka skills and get superior heal, burst and sustain they now says "not all things are or need to be equal" f you made my day, can stop laughing

Tell me, back before the physical version of dawnbreaker, back before weapon ultimates, what was your advise to run on a stam sorc or a stamplar?

Actually it was made like this just to not allow stamina to dominate due to huge diff between wep damage of stamina builds and spell damage of magicka builds, so no-one prevented stamina to use it, even CP system and it was used by stamina, but without dealing ridiculous amount of damage which currently allows idiotic gameplay type of 'DW+Execute spam'
I didn't say anything about weapon ultimates, they were added as cherry on top of stamina overbuffing cake.

Also

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Get over it, not all things are or need to be equal.

ak_pvp · March 2018

I feel like this is an indirect StamDK strength post. Because then other classes would have to move to DW for the strong burst ult, but stamDK would keep leap.

Hmmm...

ak_pvp · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

i just wish meteor was as nice as dawnbreaker. Can´t we reduce dmg and cost on meteor a bit? That would be nice.

I quite like it, thematically, but admittedly, for 200 its a little too costly and on many classes its inferior to dawn due to how situational it can be, if I see it, I mist, move away from group and its wasted on one person. Something like 150 would be good. Less on demand, but better possible timing.

Raraaku · March 2018

Starting your argument off of an informal fallacy, see Hasty Generalization, is not a good start to your post.

Furthermore, to propose a solution that involves: creating an entirely new Ultimate for the Fighters Guild, removing an existing Ultimate that other players actively use, create entirely new animations from scratch, and to change Dawnbreaker into a essentially more powerful version of Lacerate is... pretty ridiculous. Not to mention wanting to give a stamina weapon a magicka morph.

Finally, to simply resort to Ad Hominem tactics to argue against those who bring up valid flaws in your request/line of thinking renders the point of this entire thread rather pointless.

GeorgeBlack · March 2018

Everybody slots DB in their PvP/PvE stambuilds, except for Incap.
4 pages have shown this. It isnt balanced. It is BiS and it is available to everybody.
And you wanna keep it that way because you dont care for variety. You care for results.
Even if that means that that all builds should run Dawnbreaker.

Lets see how many more pages will prove that forums are full of min/maxers.
Just as I believed that shuffle was BiS and OP and it needed restriction, i believe the same for DB. This topic turned out excacly like the previous one.

Orange_fire_dragon · March 2018

I wouldn't say the issue is dawnbreaker itself, it is the lack of physical damage based ultimates. Take a look at templar class for example.

All the ultimates that class have, are magic damage or healing.
Sorc ultimates are magic damage or negate ultimate.
Warden is also all magic based ultimates or healing.
Nightblades have incap strike which is more commonly used due to much faster recharge but doesnt have other phys ultimates.
Dragonknight has few phys ultimates which are tbh used somewhat often.

So ofc dawnbreaker is common because classes do not offer these phys ultimates and 2h ultimate is def more defensive and needs fairly lot of charge, bow ult loses effectives if target leaves its reach or you are running with the bow ult unable to add more damage on top of it along needing lot of charge and lacerate is... lacerate.

Shortly said, don't nerf/rework dawnbreaker instead add new ultimates that are worth it that offer different methods to do plays.

kadar · March 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Everybody slots DB in their PvP/PvE stambuilds, except for Incap.
4 pages have shown this. It isnt balanced. It is BiS and it is available to everybody.
And you wanna keep it that way because you dont care for variety. You care for results.
Even if that means that that all builds should run Dawnbreaker.

Lets see how many more pages will prove that forums are full of min/maxers.
Just as I believed that shuffle was BiS and OP and it needed restriction, i believe the same for DB. This topic turned out excacly like the previous one.

Sigh.

Incap > DB
Leap > DB

That's 2/5 classes that legit should not be using DB. 40% of Stamina builds have access to an Ultimate better than DBoS...

griffkhalifa · March 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

Everybody slots DB in their PvP/PvE stambuilds, except for Incap.
4 pages have shown this. It isnt balanced. It is BiS and it is available to everybody.
And you wanna keep it that way because you dont care for variety. You care for results.
Even if that means that that all builds should run Dawnbreaker.

Lets see how many more pages will prove that forums are full of min/maxers.
Just as I believed that shuffle was BiS and OP and it needed restriction, i believe the same for DB. This topic turned out excacly like the previous one.

Just because a lot of people use it doesn't mean it isn't balanced. These threads about nerfs aren't about balancing the game, they're about people being tired of being killed in PvP and instead of learning how to counter how they're being killed, they want nerfs. It's lazy.

bardx86 · March 2018

Derra wrote: »

i just wish meteor was as nice as dawnbreaker. Can´t we reduce dmg and cost on meteor a bit? That would be nice.

I also think we should remove the telegraphing circle around the target.

technohic · March 2018

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

i just wish meteor was as nice as dawnbreaker. Can´t we reduce dmg and cost on meteor a bit? That would be nice.

I also think we should remove the telegraphing circle around the target.

I pretty much treat DBOS the same as I do meteor in that I look to get a stun off right before the hit. Meteor you probably want to fire the stun right after the cast though and hope you get it in before your target is already blocking. The projections is just so huge.

kadar · March 2018

technohic wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

i just wish meteor was as nice as dawnbreaker. Can´t we reduce dmg and cost on meteor a bit? That would be nice.

I also think we should remove the telegraphing circle around the target.

I pretty much treat DBOS the same as I do meteor in that I look to get a stun off right before the hit. Meteor you probably want to fire the stun right after the cast though and hope you get it in before your target is already blocking. The projections is just so huge.

Well with 3 out of 5 classes having unblockable CC now, it's pretty tasty with the delay to be honest.

Kalante · March 2018

GeorgeBlack wrote: »

There is a tldr.

Every stamina class uses Dawnbreaker.

Dawnbreaker has 2 perfect morphs. 2 ACTIVE functions. However there are 2 issues that make it overperform and this must be addressed (and I will make a suggestion)
1)PASSIVE stats make it BiS. It boosts dmg against vampires. (I am not a vampire btw)
2)It can be used with EVERY STAMINA WEAPON. Unrestricted. Undisputed. Unchecked. And it is SUCH an easy skill to use.

Dawnbreaker is an aggressive skill. Very strong. I suggest 2 things:

1)Dawnbreaker is moved to DW. It belongs there. It improves DW in PvP. It should be renamed and the animation should be something like an anime bladedance/tornado.

invalid

technohic · March 2018

The_Outsider wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

i just wish meteor was as nice as dawnbreaker. Can´t we reduce dmg and cost on meteor a bit? That would be nice.

I also think we should remove the telegraphing circle around the target.

I pretty much treat DBOS the same as I do meteor in that I look to get a stun off right before the hit. Meteor you probably want to fire the stun right after the cast though and hope you get it in before your target is already blocking. The projections is just so huge.

Well with 3 out of 5 classes having unblockable CC now, it's pretty tasty with the delay to be honest.

But 2/3 are melee range but it is nice.

kadar · March 2018

technohic wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

i just wish meteor was as nice as dawnbreaker. Can´t we reduce dmg and cost on meteor a bit? That would be nice.

I also think we should remove the telegraphing circle around the target.

I pretty much treat DBOS the same as I do meteor in that I look to get a stun off right before the hit. Meteor you probably want to fire the stun right after the cast though and hope you get it in before your target is already blocking. The projections is just so huge.

Well with 3 out of 5 classes having unblockable CC now, it's pretty tasty with the delay to be honest.

But 2/3 are melee range but it is nice.

True. Fighting purely ranged is a pipe dream for my mNB. There's always at least 1 person up in your faes lol

PlagueSD · March 2018

Dawnbreaker fits in the "Fighter Guild" line perfectly. They are focused on fighting Werewolves and Vampires. There should not be a magicka version of that ability. Fighter's Guild is a bunch of WARRIORS that don't use magicka. The Mage's Guild, on the other hand, is a bunch of MAGES that don't use stamina. Meteor is fine the way it is with both morphs using magicka.

Quit asking to NERF stuff.

I actually use both Fighter's and Mage's Guild Ultimates. FD on my melee bar, Meteor on my bow bar.

technohic · March 2018

The_Outsider wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

technohic wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

i just wish meteor was as nice as dawnbreaker. Can´t we reduce dmg and cost on meteor a bit? That would be nice.

I also think we should remove the telegraphing circle around the target.

I pretty much treat DBOS the same as I do meteor in that I look to get a stun off right before the hit. Meteor you probably want to fire the stun right after the cast though and hope you get it in before your target is already blocking. The projections is just so huge.

Well with 3 out of 5 classes having unblockable CC now, it's pretty tasty with the delay to be honest.

But 2/3 are melee range but it is nice.

True. Fighting purely ranged is a pipe dream for my mNB. There's always at least 1 person up in your faes lol

lol I learned that the hard way.