Loot system for dungeons NEEDS to change

Madae · March 2014

I'm gonna write this off as a fluke, because there is no way I didn't do enough in Spindleclutch to not get a SINGLE frickin' item from a boss. All I got were minor soul gems, and everyone else in my group got 2-3 items from the bosses. If I wasn't stingy about it, I could have even used those gems to res since we wiped literally before every boss. How is this FAIR? Someone told me it has something to do with a "finesse" system, and depending on how well you do in the fight, you get loot. Pure. ***.

Let me be clear here; this is DEFINITELY not the way dungeons should be done -at all-. I know I pulled my weight, and I don't have anything to show for it. This entire experience has literally brought me to the point of writing off every PvE dungeon in the game as a complete waste of my time.

Change this crap, please.

Zargorius · March 2014

Hang on, so you got unlucky on 1 single dungeon run and now you are writing off all the dungeons in the game? That's very mature.
There is no finesse system, it has been scrapped long ago. I gues RNG simply hates you.

Madae · March 2014

Zargorius wrote: »

Hang on, so you got unlucky on 1 single dungeon run and now you are writing off all the dungeons in the game? That's very mature.
There is no finesse system, it has been scrapped long ago. I gues RNG simply hates you.

Yeah, and I'm sure you would be thrilled if you were in my situation.

There is not a single MMO out there, too my knowledge, that does this, so don't be stupid. Every boss should drop an item, and whether or not the item is useful shouldn't matter. The point is; if you put time in to doing it, you should get a reward. Plain and simple.

And you sound really mature egging me on, too. Hypocrite.

Kroin · March 2014

Madae wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

Hang on, so you got unlucky on 1 single dungeon run and now you are writing off all the dungeons in the game? That's very mature.
There is no finesse system, it has been scrapped long ago. I gues RNG simply hates you.

Yeah, and I'm sure you would be thrilled if you were in my situation.

There is not a single MMO out there, too my knowledge, that does this, so don't be stupid. Every boss should drop an item, and whether or not the item is useful shouldn't matter. The point is; if you put time in to doing it, you should get a reward. Plain and simple.

And you sound really mature egging me on, too. Hypocrite.

Have to disagree with that, its not a must that you get an item by every boss, i dont have a problem getting nothing over a run can happen sometimes.

What role did you play?

Healer? Maybe you dident attack and only healed, or only dealed damage and dident heal?

I did the public dungeon with the snake boss in dc and only healed i only got a soul game, later i did it again healed and dealt damage to him and i got a blue, so it works.

That doesnt mean you dont get points from healing, but i pretty much just overhealed and that dident brought me enough points.

Madae · March 2014

I'm a Nightblade - all I did was kill things.

I don't need to explain how MMO's work; it's likely all of you have played one other than this at some point. In this situation, there is no loot fighting, and going in without any perceivable indication that I MAY get something is a waste of time to me. I would rather lose a roll to someone else, but at least I had a chance that I could actually see and not be screwed by some back end math by not seeing anything at all.

Madae · March 2014

The point is this; how many times do I have to do a dungeon and get nothing before this system is determined to be flawed? Two times? Three times? Ten times? It could happen. At least in, say, SWTOR, I could see what it was that I had a chance at winning. If I lost a roll, big deal. At least my perception was that I didn't waste my time and had as good a chance as anyone else.

But since we're not even fighting for loot, and there is a good number of different skills you can use, even getting an item I can't use from every boss is still worth my time because I can always break it down for a minuscule amount of minerals.

Again, bottom line; in this game, no one should go into a dungeon and come out empty handed. One boss should at least drop an item. Perhaps the system should even be smart enough to increase your chance for a drop from subsequent bosses should you come out empty handed on the first few, ending up with, at least, a guaranteed drop during the run. You could do this by just giving the person a treasure chest or something once you leave the dungeon. Call it the "unlucky adventurer" achievement.

MercyKilling · March 2014

At least it's not a horribad need/greed system. Thank God for small favors.

Jroc · March 2014

Nothing wrong with getting nothing. In dungeons you earn the CHANCE to get something. I don't really care whether you can see the chance or not, because it is still a chance just the same.

F7sus4 · March 2014

So you want the game to be realistic, but complain when you work hard and get nothing in return? This is how things work in real life sometimes.

If the game rewards you too often/lavishly, it will get boring very soon.

Madae · March 2014

F7sus4 wrote: »

So you want the game to be realistic, but complain when you work hard and get nothing in return? This is how things work in real life.

Pretty sure that's not how real life works, but okay... I have a job, I get paid for the work I put in. I get what you're saying, but that's not a very good analogy.

Madae · March 2014

Beagle wrote: »

I am a NB too. We ran several dungeons last night. I got 4 drops, but no heavy armor dropped at all for anyone else in the party. The heavy armor folks didn't come here to complain. It balances out, can't really blame the game as being flawed because you had a bad streak.

Yeah, but... did you at LEAST get an item you didn't want? That's a lot different than not getting anything at all. People in my group got crap they didn't want, but at least they got something.

F7sus4 · March 2014

No-thing is some-thing too. Despite the lack of items you expected, you do get XP and fun of playing the game. This is what it's meant for.

Equal drops were good 10 years ago. No more D2 Mephisto/Baal-runs? Yes, finally.

Yshaar · March 2014

I disagree with your opinion and I want rollable shared loot from every boss.

Will I get my wish? Nope.
Will you continue to hate not being the lucky guy? Probably.

F7sus4 · March 2014

That, actually, was an implication to be happy with the things you get.

Mantiss · March 2014

I'm fairly certain you gain a skill point for the first time completing a dungeon as well.
Regarding loot, I could care less if there is RNG, to me that is a good thing. The last thing I want is some static loot system where (x) will drop every (y) kill. Just isn't fun to my play style.
As someone already stated the "Finesse" system was scrapped long ago, so that point is moot. Getting some kind of loot in any MMO was always luck based and ran on RNG. I know some folks need that participation sticker just for showing up, like WoW, but not everyone needs that.
If anything you should scrap this topic and focus on what the RNG model is and if the drop rates should be improved upon.

ShinChuck · March 2014

Madae wrote: »

Zargorius wrote: »

Hang on, so you got unlucky on 1 single dungeon run and now you are writing off all the dungeons in the game? That's very mature.
There is no finesse system, it has been scrapped long ago. I gues RNG simply hates you.

Yeah, and I'm sure you would be thrilled if you were in my situation.

No, I wouldn't be happy at all, but with due respect, your first line says you acknowledge it might have been a fluke, and then your last line is writing off dungeons completely.

My advice would be to try a few more, see how they go. It sounds like you were in a rough group to start, if you were constantly having to raise them. If they're still not dropping in a fair manner, let us know! It may be a legit problem, but one run is just too little data.

To piggyback someone else: I DO love not having a need/greed system!

hrdndv_ESO · March 2014

Beagle wrote: »

I am a NB too. We ran several dungeons last night. I got 4 drops, but no heavy armor dropped at all for anyone else in the party. The heavy armor folks didn't come here to complain. It balances out, can't really blame the game as being flawed because you had a bad streak.

I never found anything worth equipping anywhere in the game. There are only three ways to get the good stuff: Crafting, Rewards for Cyrodil, Purchases.

If you want the best gear, you have to craft it.

ManiacMcLaughton · March 2014

I agree that everyone getting their own loot vrs need/greed system is awesome. I also say I would be OK if randomly one person didn't get loot per boss just to try to even things out. 3 pieces of loot per boss is more than anything you get in others.

Having said that, I would LOVE the chance to TRADE with a member of my group in the first 10 minutes after getting a drop(HAVE TO HAVE BEEN A GROUP) So many times now i have had good items for a group mate of mine i would have LOVED to have given to them.. but couldn't. Needs to be my option, but it needs to at least BE an option...

Seer · March 2014

Umm finesse system sounds like a great idea

I didnt know they had something like that in game. Every time I went in any of the group dungeons with I got something from every boss. I guess, I should be happy about my playing

.... sadly the bloodthorn assassin mission has me stuck on level 9 so I cant get to the dungeon part anytime soon.

jaytrill11ub17_ESO · April 2014

I understand your frustration OP ,but wow am I the only one around here who remembers older mmos where you would do hours of raiding for ONE piece of gear to hopefully drop for ONE person

Paralyse · April 2014

One area where they could definitely improve here is in the NUMBER of drops per boss that are specific to that boss.

As an example, farming final boss in Silumm last night for soul gems and deconstruction gear, I got tons of random white (i.e. non-fine/epic/etc.) armor/weapon drops, and about 15 or so of the boss's leveled sword, "Raze", which is a Fine quality 2 hander. I would have hoped that the boss had a loot table to include other Fine quality or better items for various other slots and weapon types, but apart from a lone green Maple Staff of Inferno, not a whiff of any color at all. No recipes, no style books, no jewellery, nothing else interesting at all. Tons of potions, petty soul gems, a few (cheap) enchants. This is after spending 2 hrs doing nothing but killing the same boss repeatedly + all of his surrounding Dominion mobs.

While somewhat profitable, this is far from interesting or exciting, and leaves me questioning if bosses in the future harder content will have better gear and loot tables, or if there's even a point to farm anything if the loot tables are so rigid. Compare the loot tables for a low level boss in WoW (8-12 items for various gear slots) and especially SW:TOR (where there seems to be a huge loot table of better quality gear) and ESO seems very lacking in this regard. It may be "true" to the ESO way, where leveled NPCs and chests only drop certain gear, but it is at odds with many other MMO's.

Napkins · April 2014

wow crying about loot already. rng is random! Guess the WoW players flocked to this game unfortunately.

Paralyse · April 2014

Napkins wrote: »

wow crying about loot already. rng is random! Guess the WoW players flocked to this game unfortunately.

I'll buy that argument when RNG can choose from loot tables that have more than one NPC-specific item.

syphinb · April 2014

People like you are the reason i can't enjoy MMO games now, always looking for hand outs.

It was one run, stop crying over something that you can run again and have a chance...

Madae · April 2014

I helped a group with the end boss and thought it was fairly amusing when one of the players said they had done that dungeon several times and the last boss dropped absolutely nothing for them each time. I felt their pain.

Madae · April 2014

syphinb wrote: »

Stuff

Thanks, I got the 5 LOL badge.

Dollface · April 2014

I 3 manned Spindleclutch with some friends on my NB as a DPS-Support Healer with a Templar DPS - Tank and a Sorcerer full healing... I got 0 drops outside of the soul gems and I think our healer was the only one to get an actual item not from the quest...we wiped about 8x on wonky trash pulls but other than that killed the bosses np...I personally didn't feel like I got boned cuz at the end the quest gave me some killer blue pants and I got a pair of Blue Gloves out of a locked chest...Maybe all the dying plays a factor into your finesse score and the wipes cost you loot. Even without the blue drops though I was satisfied with the dungeon experience, mostly cuz of how cool the last boss looks when her shadows projecting on the wall in the final chamber

I would rather have the boss drop me a bunch of junk loot that's all for me than have them drop 1 item and have 4 of us roll on it though...cuz yeah that sucks

Lastly learn to block, dodge, interrupt, and perform more than 1 role and when you do so on a flawless run you can then come back and gripe that you got 0 loot...with 3 ppl (level 12-14) we got done in a reasonable time (had a few RL interruptions so actual playtime is unknown). Go have fun.

Madae · April 2014

Dollface wrote: »

Lastly learn to block, dodge, interrupt, and perform more than 1 role and when you do so on a flawless run you can then come back and gripe that you got 0 loot...

I was with you until you said this. I'm not sure how much more stupid that comment can be.

And you missed the part where someone said the finesse system is no longer there. Thanks for reading the thread in its entirety (or just the post below OP... derp).

scottbjohnso_ESO · April 2014

Ummmm, you didn't get boned...you got soul gems. If you don't understand the value of soul gems then you have a lot to know about this game! Also the devs have already said that the best gear you get in the game is from crafting. If you know a good crafter you shouldn't care about random drops off a boss.

Artis · April 2014

The loot from bosses is okay. What need change is chests. Either remove them or make them personal. Or make a leader be able to set some rules as in "everyone gets a chest in turns''. It's just ridiculous:

When a fight starts and someone is avoiding it on purpose, because there's a chest nearby and if he goes to get it right now, then he gets it, because people in combat can't use chests.
When a fight ends instead of ressurecting allies, people are having a race to see who gets to a chest first.
When a fight lasts everyone is trying to be close to a chest to get it right after boss dies. So sometimes it's really painful, because, you know, you have to move to avoid boss's abilities.
Sometimes someone who has already been to a dungeon just knows where all the chests are. So not only he combines all of the above... But even if a chest is hidden somewhere in bushes or behind the corner or whatever.. He just runs directly there a gets it. In the end, no one else in a group gets a chest except for one person.

So it ruins fun for others. It's actually really frustrating.
p.s Forgot to mention.. Loot from chests is better than from bosses sometimes. Or not worse at least. And there're more chests than bosses. That's why it's frustrating that because of someone(especially frustrating when it's just one person) you have less attempts to "roll your dice" and get something useful.

Nox_Aeterna · April 2014

Well i do hope that finesse system was trully removed , never heard of such absurd idea.

And i do see the group dungeons are full of problems , guess i will stand clear.