How to fix stamina

Seraphayel · March 2018

The_Protagonist wrote: »

@Seraphayel

Stamina has much better PvP weapons. 2h is incredibly powerful because it offers so much. Destro Staff in comparison is not good. It's bad.

They are overwhelming. What is used more often in PvP, Magicka or Stamina? I am doing mostly battlegrounds and almost every enemy is Stamina with 2h/2x1h and bow. The class doesn't matter that much although Wardens and Nightblades are the enemies I see the most.

I agree that the morph situation is not good for StamDPS but they're weapon options are so much better than for Magicka.

Hmmm... Destro Ulti anyone

Destro Ulti is good in zergs. That's it for Destro Staff. Maybe Clench is useful as well but that's it. No passive or active heal/buff for Destro, no finisher. If your class has no self healing capabilities you're forced to use Resto on back bar. Stamina has at least two sources for good heals and several execute skills while Magicka has 0.

Seraphayel · March 2018

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Stamina is out of control in PvP. All you see is Stamnbs and Stamdens. Their sustain is better, their defense abilities are better (evading every attack, roll dodge, gap closers), their burst damage is better. I don't think Stamina must be nerfed but Magicka must be buffed. Sustain as a MagDPS is horrible and you're chances on breaking free/getting away with the tiny amount of Stamina you have is mostly impossible at the moment. Fix Magicka sustain.

Oh and why is Destro Staff so bad for PvP? I'd love to have something like 2hand for Magicka. Heal, buff, execute, cheap and very strong spammable. Instead we have the super expensive Clench. Thanks for that.

Taking bleed builds as reference for stam balance is a joke. That's like taking Duroks builds for magicka as balance reference (which are stronger currently). Go and play a stam Dk or stamplar if you think they have more defense and better sustain, good luck with that.

The problem with Stamplar and Stamdk are the same for MagDK and Magplar - both classes are quite underwhelming right now. That doesn't justify the overwhelming power of Stamina builds at the moment though.

But they aren't overwhelming, only Nb and Warden are a bit too strong (and that only because Cloak/Shimmering Shield). Mag has Ele Drain which equals 600 magregen, stam barely has any stam class morphs for dots (= less pressure) and can facetank much less (stam heals are garbage and dodge has a stacking cost). Yes, bleeds are a bit too strong, but you can just use Defile against them and call it a day.

Stamina has much better PvP weapons. 2h is incredibly powerful because it offers so much. Destro Staff in comparison is not good. It's bad.

They are overwhelming. What is used more often in PvP, Magicka or Stamina? I am doing mostly battlegrounds and almost every enemy is Stamina with 2h/2x1h and bow. The class doesn't matter that much although Wardens and Nightblades are the enemies I see the most.

I agree that the morph situation is not good for StamDPS but they're weapon options are so much better than for Magicka.

Anecdotal claims are not indicative of actual facts.

Then just do battlegrounds and after you did 10, 15 tell me what you saw more, StamDPS or MagDPS.

Checkmath · March 2018

The only thing i see as a problem here is probably the range and damage of light and heavy attacks of melee weapons. I was suprised to be stunned, set offbalance first, by a stamdk 10m away from me swinging his 2h...
Otherwise stamina builds seem fine to me. Bleed builds sacrifice a lot of tankyness giving up snb. Every good bleed buils has master weapons included, meaning they give up even more for this playstyle.
Snare could need a rework yes, but atm its rather a l2p issua than missing the possibility to avoid or get rid of it.
@Murador178 you surely doesnt like me^^
Zerg as baseline to balance stuff? Lol
A 1v1 situation should be user as baseline, since its the baseline for pvp in general. You cant survive a1v1, then good luck with a zerg. You win a 1v1, then add an enemy player and progress. 1v1 baseline and the situation ads players on every side of the „v“

Skander · March 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

The only thing i see as a problem here is probably the range and damage of light and heavy attacks of melee weapons. I was suprised to be stunned, set offbalance first, by a stamdk 10m away from me swinging his 2h...
Otherwise stamina builds seem fine to me. Bleed builds sacrifice a lot of tankyness giving up snb. Every good bleed buils has master weapons included, meaning they give up even more for this playstyle.
Snare could need a rework yes, but atm its rather a l2p issua than missing the possibility to avoid or get rid of it.
@Murador178 you surely doesnt like me^^
Zerg as baseline to balance stuff? Lol
A 1v1 situation should be user as baseline, since its the baseline for pvp in general. You cant survive a1v1, then good luck with a zerg. You win a 1v1, then add an enemy player and progress. 1v1 baseline and the situation ads players on every side of the „v“

You can literally run a bleed build and sacrifice nothing. By having a warden with s&b and Dw.
And bleed go trough everything. Give me something magicka that goes trough resistances and can crit and it's a dot.

kadar · March 2018

Mist.

And no it's not bad, you don't know how to use it well.

Checkmath · March 2018

@Skander
No i wont give you anything similar to bleed, because magicka is different from stamina, so stamina should have something unique.
There wouldnt be much diversity, if everything is accesable for everyone. You want something similar like a bleedbuild, make a dotbuild with high penetration, shouldnt be difficult on magicka to have dots and penetration.
Btw: stamwarden with dual wield abd snb sacrfices a lot, especially cool stuff from 2h skillline and being another class. Dont bring up classspecific situations, when we talk about something general...stupid.
Anyway stamwarden bleedbuild is the one class missing i havent seen yet regarding bleedbuilds. I saw sorcs, templars, nightblades and dks running bleedbuilds, never saw a warden do it.

Skander · March 2018

The_Outsider wrote: »

Mist.

And no it's not bad, you don't know how to use it well.

Use it in solo.
Die.
Repeat

Very useful

kadar · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Mist.

And no it's not bad, you don't know how to use it well.

Use it in solo.
Die.
Repeat

Very useful

Ahaha. I even called it^ You're doing it wrong, friend.

Skander · March 2018

The_Outsider wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Mist.

And no it's not bad, you don't know how to use it well.

Use it in solo.
Die.
Repeat

Very useful

Ahaha. I even called it^ You're doing it wrong, friend.

Yes of course, i'm doing it wrong.

Of course. yes.
You are right.

But no i mean. You are right you know?

kadar · March 2018

Skander wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Skander wrote: »

The_Outsider wrote: »

Mist.

And no it's not bad, you don't know how to use it well.

Use it in solo.
Die.
Repeat

Very useful

Ahaha. I even called it^ You're doing it wrong, friend.

Yes of course, i'm doing it wrong.

Of course. yes.
You are right.

But no i mean. You are right you know?

I mean... it is completely within your rights to ignore what is said here and continue dying to snare spam...

Carry on, good sir and good luck to you. /salute

Azurya · March 2018

Stamina would be fine, if it just wouldn´t be the pool for almost everything!
-sneak
-sprint
-roll-dodge
-bash
-break-free
-block
-rapid-riding, amm
and if you still have something left you can try to do some dmg with it!

I propose to make all the above mentioned depended on your maxed pool, magicka, health or stamina

Checkmath · March 2018

Bad idea to make all those things dependent on your max stat ressource.
It doesnt make sense, that if a magician blocks, dodges or sneaks, it consumes magicka...neither does it for sprinting or breaking free. The only point debatable is blocking with magicka, which kind of exists.
Anyway stamina toons rely on magicka to cast many buffs, to cleanse and more. Now you want that magicka classes more than stam classes should rely only on one ressource despite it making no sense at all?

Ragnaroek93 · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

@Seraphayel

Stamina has much better PvP weapons. 2h is incredibly powerful because it offers so much. Destro Staff in comparison is not good. It's bad.

They are overwhelming. What is used more often in PvP, Magicka or Stamina? I am doing mostly battlegrounds and almost every enemy is Stamina with 2h/2x1h and bow. The class doesn't matter that much although Wardens and Nightblades are the enemies I see the most.

I agree that the morph situation is not good for StamDPS but they're weapon options are so much better than for Magicka.

Hmmm... Destro Ulti anyone

Destro Ulti is good in zergs. That's it for Destro Staff. Maybe Clench is useful as well but that's it. No passive or active heal/buff for Destro, no finisher. If your class has no self healing capabilities you're forced to use Resto on back bar. Stamina has at least two sources for good heals and several execute skills while Magicka has 0.

And stamina is forced to run 2h for Rally. I would trade Vigor for a stamina based Healing Ward every day. Please just play something in medium armor if you think that they can facetank better than magbuilds.

Azurya · March 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

Bad idea to make all those things dependent on your max stat ressource.
It doesnt make sense, that if a magician blocks, dodges or sneaks, it consumes magicka...neither does it for sprinting or breaking free. The only point debatable is blocking with magicka, which kind of exists.
Anyway stamina toons rely on magicka to cast many buffs, to cleanse and more. Now you want that magicka classes more than stam classes should rely only on one ressource despite it making no sense at all?

then pls explain why my stamina builds must "pay" all these skills from the pool they need for dmg too, and all other builds don´t? My magicka builds have around 10k stamina, that is enough for jerking those skills, but after they done that they STILL have 49K magicka pool!!!
my stambuilds provide a rapid, roll dodge, bash, interrupt and then when it is time to launch an attack, ups half of pool used already!
that is not very fair!
and it is easier for @ZOS to make all these side-abilities max-pool dependend, and then we have fair starting positions!

Ragnaroek93 · March 2018

Azurya wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Bad idea to make all those things dependent on your max stat ressource.
It doesnt make sense, that if a magician blocks, dodges or sneaks, it consumes magicka...neither does it for sprinting or breaking free. The only point debatable is blocking with magicka, which kind of exists.
Anyway stamina toons rely on magicka to cast many buffs, to cleanse and more. Now you want that magicka classes more than stam classes should rely only on one ressource despite it making no sense at all?

then pls explain why my stamina builds must "pay" all these skills from the pool they need for dmg too, and all other builds don´t? My magicka builds have around 10k stamina, that is enough for jerking those skills, but after they done that they STILL have 49K magicka pool!!!
my stambuilds provide a rapid, roll dodge, bash, interrupt and then when it is time to launch an attack, ups half of pool used already!
that is not very fair!
and it is easier for @ZOS to make all these side-abilities max-pool dependend, and then we have fair starting positions!

Please stop. Having dodgeroll cost magicka would kill all medium armor builds, having block cost magicka would kill magplars and magdks with sword and shield. 10k stamina with baseregen isn't enough for me on a magicka build nor is 10k magicka with base magickaregen enough for me on a stamina build. It seems quite balanced over all.

Skander · March 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

@Seraphayel

Stamina has much better PvP weapons. 2h is incredibly powerful because it offers so much. Destro Staff in comparison is not good. It's bad.

They are overwhelming. What is used more often in PvP, Magicka or Stamina? I am doing mostly battlegrounds and almost every enemy is Stamina with 2h/2x1h and bow. The class doesn't matter that much although Wardens and Nightblades are the enemies I see the most.

I agree that the morph situation is not good for StamDPS but they're weapon options are so much better than for Magicka.

Hmmm... Destro Ulti anyone

Destro Ulti is good in zergs. That's it for Destro Staff. Maybe Clench is useful as well but that's it. No passive or active heal/buff for Destro, no finisher. If your class has no self healing capabilities you're forced to use Resto on back bar. Stamina has at least two sources for good heals and several execute skills while Magicka has 0.

And stamina is forced to run 2h for Rally. I would trade Vigor for a stamina based Healing Ward every day. Please just play something in medium armor if you think that they can facetank better than magbuilds.

and sorc/magblades are stick on restoration staff, when magplar and dk usually are stick to S&B, why? Becouse they don't live enough to tell the tale without it

The we have the warden...that with the weapon dmg stamina has, in medium, his mushrooms heal more then a breath of life.

Skander · March 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Azurya wrote: »

Checkmath wrote: »

Bad idea to make all those things dependent on your max stat ressource.
It doesnt make sense, that if a magician blocks, dodges or sneaks, it consumes magicka...neither does it for sprinting or breaking free. The only point debatable is blocking with magicka, which kind of exists.
Anyway stamina toons rely on magicka to cast many buffs, to cleanse and more. Now you want that magicka classes more than stam classes should rely only on one ressource despite it making no sense at all?

then pls explain why my stamina builds must "pay" all these skills from the pool they need for dmg too, and all other builds don´t? My magicka builds have around 10k stamina, that is enough for jerking those skills, but after they done that they STILL have 49K magicka pool!!!
my stambuilds provide a rapid, roll dodge, bash, interrupt and then when it is time to launch an attack, ups half of pool used already!
that is not very fair!
and it is easier for @ZOS to make all these side-abilities max-pool dependend, and then we have fair starting positions!

Please stop. Having dodgeroll cost magicka would kill all medium armor builds, having block cost magicka would kill magplars and magdks with sword and shield. 10k stamina with baseregen isn't enough for me on a magicka build nor is 10k magicka with base magickaregen enough for me on a stamina build. It seems quite balanced over all.

I must say this: on my stamplar with base magicka regen, i can cast purify and rune focus pretty much everytime i need it.
With stamina i usually die becouse i spent it all rolldodging or trying to stay alive. You know. Magicka can get snared.

Checkmath · March 2018

It just makes sense that those mechanims cost stamina. Additionally it makes sense, that both stat pools need to be used in pvp, otherwise something like sacreficing or having a weakness doesnt exist anymore.
Magicians are weak in physical stuff, so dodging, blocking and stuff should exhaust them, its their weakness. If you constantly apply strain to those magicians, they will fail. Only logic that the system is like this. Stam toons are warriors. They also get exhausted by the same stuff, but have better regeneration and can endure more of that. If all that would cost magicka for magicians, then good luck finding sone diversity. Then every magtoon runs around with zero stam and stamregen. Then its just a meaningless stat for magicka classes. The same as stamina classes, if their buffs would cost stamina. Lot of sets would be trash, hybrids would be even more dead. That would be the result of a change, which doesnt even make sense in any form.

Seraphayel · March 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

@Seraphayel

Stamina has much better PvP weapons. 2h is incredibly powerful because it offers so much. Destro Staff in comparison is not good. It's bad.

They are overwhelming. What is used more often in PvP, Magicka or Stamina? I am doing mostly battlegrounds and almost every enemy is Stamina with 2h/2x1h and bow. The class doesn't matter that much although Wardens and Nightblades are the enemies I see the most.

I agree that the morph situation is not good for StamDPS but they're weapon options are so much better than for Magicka.

Hmmm... Destro Ulti anyone

Destro Ulti is good in zergs. That's it for Destro Staff. Maybe Clench is useful as well but that's it. No passive or active heal/buff for Destro, no finisher. If your class has no self healing capabilities you're forced to use Resto on back bar. Stamina has at least two sources for good heals and several execute skills while Magicka has 0.

And stamina is forced to run 2h for Rally. I would trade Vigor for a stamina based Healing Ward every day. Please just play something in medium armor if you think that they can facetank better than magbuilds.

They can because their overall defense capabilities are better. Not necessarily their healing but their evade, roll, etc. And there's no hard counter like shield breaker.

Who in PvP as Stamina isn't using 2h though? It's overall the strongest PvP weapon available. I wish I could choose between 3 or even 4 options as MagDPS. I have one choice for damage.

Murador178 · March 2018

Checkmath wrote: »

The only thing i see as a problem here is probably the range and damage of light and heavy attacks of melee weapons. I was suprised to be stunned, set offbalance first, by a stamdk 10m away from me swinging his 2h...
Otherwise stamina builds seem fine to me. Bleed builds sacrifice a lot of tankyness giving up snb. Every good bleed buils has master weapons included, meaning they give up even more for this playstyle.
Snare could need a rework yes, but atm its rather a l2p issua than missing the possibility to avoid or get rid of it.
@Murador178 you surely doesnt like me^^
Zerg as baseline to balance stuff? Lol
A 1v1 situation should be user as baseline, since its the baseline for pvp in general. You cant survive a1v1, then good luck with a zerg. You win a 1v1, then add an enemy player and progress. 1v1 baseline and the situation ads players on every side of the „v“

My medium armor openworld nightblade for sure doesnt like u

. But u probably dont like good mag nbs ^^. I played some magplar duels on pts and rly liked it until i played against a good mag nb and just weaved in the air.

Stam players are also sick of using 2h on every build. Both things should be changed.

Ragnaroek93 · March 2018

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

@Seraphayel

Stamina has much better PvP weapons. 2h is incredibly powerful because it offers so much. Destro Staff in comparison is not good. It's bad.

They are overwhelming. What is used more often in PvP, Magicka or Stamina? I am doing mostly battlegrounds and almost every enemy is Stamina with 2h/2x1h and bow. The class doesn't matter that much although Wardens and Nightblades are the enemies I see the most.

I agree that the morph situation is not good for StamDPS but they're weapon options are so much better than for Magicka.

Hmmm... Destro Ulti anyone

Destro Ulti is good in zergs. That's it for Destro Staff. Maybe Clench is useful as well but that's it. No passive or active heal/buff for Destro, no finisher. If your class has no self healing capabilities you're forced to use Resto on back bar. Stamina has at least two sources for good heals and several execute skills while Magicka has 0.

And stamina is forced to run 2h for Rally. I would trade Vigor for a stamina based Healing Ward every day. Please just play something in medium armor if you think that they can facetank better than magbuilds.

They can because their overall defense capabilities are better. Not necessarily their healing but their evade, roll, etc. And there's no hard counter like shield breaker.

Who in PvP as Stamina isn't using 2h though? It's overall the strongest PvP weapon available. I wish I could choose between 3 or even 4 options as MagDPS. I have one choice for damage.

Shieldbreaker is a counter against shields, not against magicka. At this point I assume that you are playing a magsorc. Magsorc has issues with offense in my opinion but if you feel squishier than on stambuilds on your magsorc you are doing something wrong to be honest, because magsorc defense is over the top.

Counters against stamina: Duroks and/or Soul Strike. Stam can roll around 7 times and dies after that because no stam is left, yeah great defense, will surely save you in the long term once you get focused.

Seraphayel · March 2018

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

The_Protagonist wrote: »

@Seraphayel

Stamina has much better PvP weapons. 2h is incredibly powerful because it offers so much. Destro Staff in comparison is not good. It's bad.

They are overwhelming. What is used more often in PvP, Magicka or Stamina? I am doing mostly battlegrounds and almost every enemy is Stamina with 2h/2x1h and bow. The class doesn't matter that much although Wardens and Nightblades are the enemies I see the most.

I agree that the morph situation is not good for StamDPS but they're weapon options are so much better than for Magicka.

Hmmm... Destro Ulti anyone

Destro Ulti is good in zergs. That's it for Destro Staff. Maybe Clench is useful as well but that's it. No passive or active heal/buff for Destro, no finisher. If your class has no self healing capabilities you're forced to use Resto on back bar. Stamina has at least two sources for good heals and several execute skills while Magicka has 0.

And stamina is forced to run 2h for Rally. I would trade Vigor for a stamina based Healing Ward every day. Please just play something in medium armor if you think that they can facetank better than magbuilds.

They can because their overall defense capabilities are better. Not necessarily their healing but their evade, roll, etc. And there's no hard counter like shield breaker.

Who in PvP as Stamina isn't using 2h though? It's overall the strongest PvP weapon available. I wish I could choose between 3 or even 4 options as MagDPS. I have one choice for damage.

Shieldbreaker is a counter against shields, not against magicka. At this point I assume that you are playing a magsorc. Magsorc has issues with offense in my opinion but if you feel squishier than on stambuilds on your magsorc you are doing something wrong to be honest, because magsorc defense is over the top.

Counters against stamina: Duroks and/or Soul Strike. Stam can roll around 7 times and dies after that because no stam is left, yeah great defense, will surely save you in the long term once you get focused.

No, I am no MagSorc. I'm a Templar (healer). Who is mostly using shields? MagDPS. And some Tank hybrids. Stamina DPS isn't using Shields. So Shieldbreaker is a direct counter to Magicka players.

willymchilybily · March 2018

sorry if im outdated, returning player and all. but stamina, melee users, heavy attack to slow you on cast.....comparable to range heavy attack from what i remeber id make the following points:

range heavy's slow you to stop kiting with bow or staff.
blocking a heavy attack causes off balance, and as a melee range user has to get close, they tend to be "off balance" in a range such that they are more exposed than a range user.
if you need to get close to attack, being slowed when casting a heavy attack would make getting away far too easy, and where as say a staff heavy attack, you cant get away from that range as easily. dont mistake me, I'm not implying escaping a gap closing melee user is easy if your being targeted, just even stam users need to land an occaisional heavy for resource

a cheaper snare removal would be nice, is efficient purge still a morph? i saw someone mention cleanse, i cant believe anyone would use it the magicka cost for the worlds smallest circumstantial heal, I'm surprised it hasnt changed since i was away, efficient purge as one morph and a straight snare negation only in place of cleanse.

Skander · March 2018

willymchilybily wrote: »

sorry if im outdated, returning player and all. but stamina, melee users, heavy attack to slow you on cast.....comparable to range heavy attack from what i remeber id make the following points:
range heavy's slow you to stop kiting with bow or staff.

blocking a heavy attack causes off balance, and as a melee range user has to get close, they tend to be "off balance" in a range such that they are more exposed than a range user.

if you need to get close to attack, being slowed when casting a heavy attack would make getting away far too easy, and where as say a staff heavy attack, you cant get away from that range as easily. dont mistake me, I'm not implying escaping a gap closing melee user is easy if your being targeted, just even stam users need to land an occaisional heavy for resource

a cheaper snare removal would be nice, is efficient purge still a morph? i saw someone mention cleanse, i cant believe anyone would use it the magicka cost for the worlds smallest circumstantial heal, I'm surprised it hasnt changed since i was away, efficient purge as one morph and a straight snare negation only in place of cleanse.

Malee heavy attacks have a redicolouse range.