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Everybody desperately needs DB in their bars. DB needs to be restricted and then replaced.
GeorgeBlack
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There is a tldr.
stamDK non vampire here.
Every stamina class uses Dawnbreaker. I use it over Leap. Leap is glitched and unreliable.
Dawnbreaker has 2 perfect morphs. 2 ACTIVE functions. However there are 2 issues that make it overperform and this must be addressed (and I will make a suggestion)
1)PASSIVE stats make it BiS. It boosts dmg against vampires. (I am not a vampire btw)
2)It can be used with EVERY STAMINA WEAPON. Unrestricted. Undisputed. Unchecked. And it is SUCH an easy skill to use.
Dawnbreaker is an aggressive skill. Very strong. I suggest 2 things:
1)Dawnbreaker is moved to DW. It belongs there. It improves DW in PvP. It should be renamed and the animation should be something like an anime bladedance/tornado.
I would also suggest that the CC is removed or changed to a soft "push" effect like the good old templar spammable. AoE.
The heal overtime and not as easy to perform action of the DW ultimate hinders DW. It doesnt belong in that playstyle.
In that way the old Dawnbreaker will not be the scourge that it is today, and DW would recieve a boost.
Enough with the passive playstyle of DW. It's all about stats (bonus piece/dmg/passive bleed) and no action. Remove bleed if it ends up overperforming.
2)Dawn breaker becomes something else. It is not BiS anymore.
It should be one morph physical 1 morph magic. No CC.
Animation/artwork. No more ground smash. It should become a slice in the sky. Similar to what DW ulti looks like but more dramatic. It should cut through the night sky and hit those vampires.
Not as easy to perform as the old mechanism. More balanced.
One morf should retain the old heal over time. The hope of Dawn.
Tldr
Dawnbreaker should become the new DW ulty with a different animation and no CC.
The DW ulty should become the new Dawnbreaker to ease off on vampires and to stop all stamina chars from slotting it.
Please find bellow 5 pages of enraged replies at the prospect of DB being rework at a less overperforming ability which furthers the point of the title.
Edited by GeorgeBlack on March 28, 2018 1:42AM stamDK non vampire here.
Every stamina class uses Dawnbreaker. I use it over Leap. Leap is glitched and unreliable.
Dawnbreaker has 2 perfect morphs. 2 ACTIVE functions. However there are 2 issues that make it overperform and this must be addressed (and I will make a suggestion)
1)PASSIVE stats make it BiS. It boosts dmg against vampires. (I am not a vampire btw)
2)It can be used with EVERY STAMINA WEAPON. Unrestricted. Undisputed. Unchecked. And it is SUCH an easy skill to use.
Dawnbreaker is an aggressive skill. Very strong. I suggest 2 things:
1)Dawnbreaker is moved to DW. It belongs there. It improves DW in PvP. It should be renamed and the animation should be something like an anime bladedance/tornado.
I would also suggest that the CC is removed or changed to a soft "push" effect like the good old templar spammable. AoE.
The heal overtime and not as easy to perform action of the DW ultimate hinders DW. It doesnt belong in that playstyle.
In that way the old Dawnbreaker will not be the scourge that it is today, and DW would recieve a boost.
Enough with the passive playstyle of DW. It's all about stats (bonus piece/dmg/passive bleed) and no action. Remove bleed if it ends up overperforming.
2)Dawn breaker becomes something else. It is not BiS anymore.
It should be one morph physical 1 morph magic. No CC.
Animation/artwork. No more ground smash. It should become a slice in the sky. Similar to what DW ulti looks like but more dramatic. It should cut through the night sky and hit those vampires.
Not as easy to perform as the old mechanism. More balanced.
One morf should retain the old heal over time. The hope of Dawn.
Tldr
Dawnbreaker should become the new DW ulty with a different animation and no CC.
The DW ulty should become the new Dawnbreaker to ease off on vampires and to stop all stamina chars from slotting it.
Please find bellow 5 pages of enraged replies at the prospect of DB being rework at a less overperforming ability which furthers the point of the title.
5
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OrdoHermetica✭✭✭✭✭
✭...it's a Guild Ultimate. Attaching it to a specific weapon would completely defeat the purpose of Guild Ultimates. Also, I think you're vastly overstating its potency. Yes, it's a very good general-purpose DPS Ultimate, and it fits a lot of builds well, which is why plenty of people use it. But there are plenty of Ultimates that are much more powerful for specific purposes. My stamblade, for example, doesn't use it at all, and relies on Rend to stay alive, thank you very much (and it's really not that hard to use... like... at all).
Additionally, only one of the morphs has CC, and it's okay CC, but not exceptional. Again, there are better ones out there. The other one offers a 5% Weapon Damage increase while slotted, which is nice, but hardly earthshaking. And it doing extra damage to vampires (along with all other Fighter's Guild abilities assuming you have the passive, otherwise actually no, it doesn't) is both A.) completely and totally the point - it's called Dawnbreaker for a reason - and B.) one of only a few Ability-based counters to vampires, who have fantastic advantages.
I do agree that there should be a Magicka morph of it, though. I'd really like my magplar to have a use for it.Edited by OrdoHermetica on March 27, 2018 1:57AM20 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭FloppyTouch wrote: »I don't like any of this and I play a mdk
We have established that you are in the "it's fine as it is" camp.1 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I like Flawless DB just the way it is and double bar it on my bow/bow stamsorc for the passives. I like that the FG caters to stam chars and that the MG caters to mag chars. My same bow/bow stamsorc who runs two more FG skills besides Flawless DB sees absolutely nothing of interest to her in the whole MG skill tree. Similarly, my magplar and magsorc both slot a MG skill but have no interest in the FG skill line. And by the way, my two mag chars both double slot the MG ult for the same reason my stamsorc slots the FG ult - passives. She does not want something sitting in her ult slot that does not help her 100% of the time.PC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo5 -
Houshiki✭✭✭✭OrdoHermetica wrote: »...it's a Guild Ultimate. Attaching it to a specific weapon would completely defeat the purpose of Guild Ultimates. Also, I think you're vastly overstating its potency. Yes, it's a very good general-purpose DPS Ultimate, and it fits a lot of builds well, which is why plenty of people use it. But there are plenty of Ultimates that are much more powerful for specific purposes. My stamblade, for example, doesn't use it at all, and relies on Rend to stay alive, thank you very much (and it's really not that hard to use... like... at all).
Additionally, only one of the morphs has CC, and it's okay CC, but not exceptional. Again, there are better ones out there. The other one offers a 5% Weapon Damage increase while slotted, which is nice, but hardly earthshaking. And it doing extra damage to vampires (along with all other Fighter's Guild abilities assuming you have the passive, otherwise actually no, it doesn't) is both A.) completely and totally the point - it's called Dawnbreaker for a reason - and B.) one of only a few Ability-based counters to vampires, who have fantastic advantages.
I do agree that there should be a Magicka morph of it, though. I'd really like my magplar to have a use for it.
I mostly agree here. Personally, I'm not too keen on a magicka morph. Both morphs already have their uses, and generally don't need to be changed. Originally, the ability actually did magic dmg, and the change to physical dmg was a great thing, imo.
However, I would be open to the idea of the ability causing fire dmg instead (b/c dawnbreaker), but I would suggest the dmg to scale with either wpn or spl dmg, whichever's higher. Thoughts?3 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭OrdoHermetica wrote: »...it's a Guild Ultimate. Attaching it to a specific weapon would completely defeat the purpose of Guild Ultimates. Also, I think you're vastly overstating its potency. Yes, it's a very good general-purpose DPS Ultimate, and it fits a lot of builds well, which is why plenty of people use it. But there are plenty of Ultimates that are much more powerful for specific purposes. My stamblade, for example, doesn't use it at all, and relies on Rend to stay alive, thank you very much (and it's really not that hard to use... like... at all).
Additionally, only one of the morphs has CC, and it's okay CC, but not exceptional. Again, there are better ones out there. The other one offers a 5% Weapon Damage increase while slotted, which is nice, but hardly earthshaking. And it doing extra damage to vampires (along with all other Fighter's Guild abilities assuming you have the passive, otherwise actually no, it doesn't) is both A.) completely and totally the point - it's called Dawnbreaker for a reason - and B.) one of only a few Ability-based counters to vampires, who have fantastic advantages.
I do agree that there should be a Magicka morph of it, though. I'd really like my magplar to have a use for it.
I mostly agree here. Personally, I'm not too keen on a magicka morph. Both morphs already have their uses, and generally don't need to be changed. Originally, the ability actually did magic dmg, and the change to physical dmg was a great thing, imo.
However, I would be open to the idea of the ability causing fire dmg instead (b/c dawnbreaker), but I would suggest the dmg to scale with either wpn or spl dmg, whichever's higher. Thoughts?
Vampires would RQ2 -
Lynx7386✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another magicka character crying that stamina has something he doesnt.
Get over it, not all things are or need to be equal.PS4 / NA
M'asad - Khajiit Nightblade - Healer
Pakhet - Khajiit Dragonknight - Tank
Raksha - Khajiit Sorcerer - Stamina DPS
Bastet - Khajiit Templar - Healer
Leonin - Khajiit Warden - Tank22 -
ADarklore✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »I don't like any of this and I play a mdk
We have established that you are in the "it's fine as it is" camp.
And we have established that you are in the "please agree with me" camp.CP: 2105 ** ESO+ ** ~~ ***** Strictly a solo PvE quester *****
~~Started Playing: May 2015 | Stopped Playing: July 2025 | Returned: March 2026~~23 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »FloppyTouch wrote: »I don't like any of this and I play a mdk
We have established that you are in the "it's fine as it is" camp.
And we have established that you are in the "please agree with me" camp.
No belonging needs here.1 -
Raraaku✭✭✭✭OrdoHermetica wrote: »...it's a Guild Ultimate. Attaching it to a specific weapon would completely defeat the purpose of Guild Ultimates. Also, I think you're vastly overstating its potency. Yes, it's a very good general-purpose DPS Ultimate, and it fits a lot of builds well, which is why plenty of people use it. But there are plenty of Ultimates that are much more powerful for specific purposes. My stamblade, for example, doesn't use it at all, and relies on Rend to stay alive, thank you very much (and it's really not that hard to use... like... at all).
Additionally, only one of the morphs has CC, and it's okay CC, but not exceptional. Again, there are better ones out there. The other one offers a 5% Weapon Damage increase while slotted, which is nice, but hardly earthshaking. And it doing extra damage to vampires (along with all other Fighter's Guild abilities assuming you have the passive, otherwise actually no, it doesn't) is both A.) completely and totally the point - it's called Dawnbreaker for a reason - and B.) one of only a few Ability-based counters to vampires, who have fantastic advantages.
I do agree that there should be a Magicka morph of it, though. I'd really like my magplar to have a use for it.
^ This.
Besides that, completely remaking two entire skills, not just switching one and creating a whole new but also completely redoing animations of said skill, just to buff DW in PvP is... unrealistic, and that's putting it lightly.Edited by Raraaku on March 27, 2018 2:19AMBack from a much needed break. || I like having too many projects and working on them all at once.
Tank Enthusiast || CP: 445 || Stormproof
TanksKarsaak gro-Ursa: DC || Orc || Stamina Dragonknight || Tank || Level: CP 445
Sir Leopold Stotch: DC || Breton || Magicka Templar || Tank || Level: 445
Protects-Squishy-Ones: EP || Argonian || Magicka Sorcerer || Tank/CC || Level: CP 445
Björn Shadow-Walker: EP || Nord || Stamina Nightblade || Tank || Level: 15
Tiberius Valerion: AD || Imperial || Stamina Warden || Tank || Level: 15
Damage DealersMorrigan Ravyn-Cloak: AD || Altmer || Magicka Nightblade || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ra'Zahkara: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Dragonknight || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ezra al-Khazir: DC || Redguard || Stamina Templar || DPS || Level: 40
Erryndril Telvaux: EP || Dunmer || Magicka Dragonknight || DPS || Level: 25
Uzara gra-Khalari: DC || Orc || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [2H/DW] || Level: 15
Solomon Motierre: DC || Breton || Magicka Sorcerer || DPS || Level: 20
Ragnar the Wulf: EP || Nord || Stamina Warden || DPS || Level: 30
Ra'Rahku: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [Bow/Bow] || Level: 15
HealersSees-through-Hist: EP || Argonian || Magicka Warden || Healer/CC || CP 445
Daedalus the Artificer: AD || Altmer || Magicka Templar || Healer || Level: 151 -
Taleof2Cities✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'm also in the "it's fine as it is" camp.
If this were a poll, I'd be interested to see if the ratio of "it's fine as it is" camp to "please agree with me" camp was 5-to-1 or more ...
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GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Taleof2Cities wrote: »I'm also in the "it's fine as it is" camp.
If this were a poll, I'd be interested to see if the ratio of "it's fine as it is" camp to "please agree with me" camp was 5-to-1 or more ...
Are you a Dev?3 -
Shadowmaster✭✭✭✭I dont necessarily agree with your solutions but I tend to agree that any skill that is mandatory for an attribute-based build, should probably be looked at, from a balance standpoint0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Shadowmaster wrote: »I dont necessarily agree with your solutions but I tend to agree that any skill that is mandatory for an attribute-based build, should probably be looked at, from a balance standpoint
Its just that DB has a strong effect on its morphs
It gets booster by the FG passives big time. Low cost, Aoe, CC.
And worst off it's free for all stamchars, no matter what weapon, effectivelly killing any identity/difference between buildsEdited by GeorgeBlack on March 27, 2018 3:43AM1 -
Sanctum74✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭This is the first time I have ever heard anyone saying DB is over powered, maybe because it's not. People use it so much because the other choices they have are not very good. Maybe adjust or buff under performing skills rather than nerf a skill that is far from being op.
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Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭"Lets nerf every stam class that isn't DK or Nightblade"
How about no.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds8 -
geonsocal✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭hands down - dawnbreaker of smiting and flawless dawnbreaker have shown up on my death recap far more than any other ultimate over the last 2 and a half years of pvp...
I hate it
between the first and second hit - a lot of times will reach up to 15k...
I have a stam/mag version of each class...my stamplar though is the only one whom slots dawnbreaker...
probably okay as is...
pretty good ultimate though; and, a whole heck of a lot easier to achieve than chasing down all those stupid lorebooks for meteor...PVP Campaigns Section: Playstation NA and EU (Gray Host) - This Must be the Place1 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »
But Stam Sorc is in a better place than other classes, so I'm not allowed to ask for changes or buffs.Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds3 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »
But Stam Sorc is in a better place than other classes, so I'm not allowed to ask for changes or buffs.
Hooo hooo....
I will allow you to get a stamina ulty that brings out the identity of your class0 -
DHale✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just because you believe it over perform does not mean it does. It doesn’t by the way. If you are a vamp then I can see why people would need to make other life choices.Sorcerna, proud beta sorc. RIP April 2014 to May 31 2016 DArk Brotherhood. Out of retirement for negates and encases. Sorcerna will be going back into retirement to be my main crafter Fall 2018. Because an 8 k shield is f ing useless. Died because of baddies on the forum. Too much qq too little pew pew. 16 AD 2 DC. 0 EP cause they bad, CP 2300 plus 18 level 50 toons. NA, PC, Grey Host#SORCLIVESMATTER actually they don’t or they wouldn’t keep getting nerfed constantly.0 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Just because you believe it over perform does not mean it does. It doesn’t by the way. If you are a vamp then I can see why people would need to make other life choices.
I am not a vamp. Nor ww.
Not a magika before you jump to the next easy argument.Edited by GeorgeBlack on March 27, 2018 4:19AM0 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭These suggestions are complete trash. If you remove DB from guild line and place into dw you force stamina sorcerers, Templars and wardens into dw only. I’m sorry but this thread is uninformed and a really bad suggestion.14 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Shadowmaster wrote: »I dont necessarily agree with your solutions but I tend to agree that any skill that is mandatory for an attribute-based build, should probably be looked at, from a balance standpoint
Its just that DB has a strong effect on its morphs
It gets booster by the FG passives big time. Low cost, Aoe, CC.
And worst off it's free for all stamchars, no matter what weapon, effectivelly killing any identity/difference between builds
This is because most stam classes have no other option. Besides NBs and DKs and the only thing DK has going for it is leap. Seriously dude you have no idea what you’re talking about.3 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Shadowmaster wrote: »I dont necessarily agree with your solutions but I tend to agree that any skill that is mandatory for an attribute-based build, should probably be looked at, from a balance standpoint
Its just that DB has a strong effect on its morphs
It gets booster by the FG passives big time. Low cost, Aoe, CC.
And worst off it's free for all stamchars, no matter what weapon, effectivelly killing any identity/difference between builds
This is because most stam classes have no other option. Besides NBs and DKs and the only thing DK has going for it is leap. Seriously dude you have no idea what you’re talking about.
Take your meds and ask for a stamina ulty for your class.
Less generic stamina builds,vigor momentum, SnB,(or shuffle) DAWNBREAKER
More class identity
I would love to see a strong stamina ulty with a good function for stamina templar. The class that is forgoten by ZosEdited by GeorgeBlack on March 27, 2018 4:29AM0 -
stimpy986b14_ESO✭✭✭✭I had an idea a while back to add a skill line to add all daedric artifacts and move dawnbreaker to this line. these would be the most difficult ultimates to obtain but ideally they'd all be BiS0 -
Sixty5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »GeorgeBlack wrote: »
But Stam Sorc is in a better place than other classes, so I'm not allowed to ask for changes or buffs.
Hooo hooo....
I will allow you to get a stamina ulty that brings out the identity of your class
Wait, so now it's ok for me to ask for buffs because you allowed it?
Are you like the big boss at Zenimax or something?
Lord and Savior of the Association of Serious S***posters.
I play a character called "Gives Me Wood Elf" because I am a mature and sensible person.
Stam Sorc main in Battlegrounds5