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Should they remove the attribute bonuses from races to encourage more diversity in class making?
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srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Yes
I think what they’re saying is that if you plan to create a stamina character, it makes more sense to use a race that specializes in stamina passives.
A tank is best with a race that has health bonuses.
And of course, a magicka character is best with a race that has magicka bonuses.
But, if you eliminate the racial passives, then race will just be a cosmetic choice so people won’t feel like they have to gravitate towards a race they don’t want to play just to get the best racial passives for the kind of character they plan to make. You’ll see more mixing and matching of races and play styles - more diversity.9 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Nothe more underwhelming races need to be adjusted for sure, but removing their bonuses just removes a small part of the depth of the game.2 -
IcyDeadPeople✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoAfter a period of a few years tweaking, refinement and balancing, the race bonuses are in a pretty good state these days. High Elf and Redguard are still somewhat over-represented for magicka and stamina builds respectively, but Argonian, Nord and Orc are finally in very good place.
The only further changes I would like to see are:
(1) Extend Khajiit carnage passive to spell crit as well as weapon crit; and
(2) Slight buff to Imperial red diamond passive2 -
Luciferazazell✭✭✭YesI just think i shouldnt have to compromise what race i want to be becuase of some stat bonus everything else is fine just that whole race thing needs to be removed. I should be able to pick whatever race i want with any class and not have a less optimal toon becuase i didnt pick the right race i like stam build and i like dark elfs of.course with a stam.dk a red guard currently is the way to go so the way things are set up it forces you to play the one race if you want the most optimized buildEdited by Luciferazazell on March 25, 2018 9:44PM3 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesLook at tera online races really have nothing that makes them op as one class or another allowed alot more play how i wanted freedon.
I miss my altmer stam sorc but holy *** the abysmal 29k stam no recoveries made it dam hard to get anything done effectively4 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoRaces in Elder Scrolls are biologically different and inclined toward certain roles. You are free to roleplay an oddball that "breaks the mold" by doing something unusual, but you have to (and deserve to) pay the price with your character's effectiveness. The races do need some slight balancing but not to the extent suggested.
If a "choose your own passive" system is ever implemented, I hope it is very limited and balanced. Something like: Choose 1 Stat Buff (+10% Max Stat), 1 Recovery buff, and 1 flavor bonus (speed, defense, elemental damage, etc).4 -
Gnortranermara✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nostarkerealm wrote: »(and you now need to gain five levels before you'll even know what your race does, if you don't look it up.)
If you seriously don't look it up before character creation, are you really the sort of person developers should be planning their game around? Is that even a thing though? Are there actual real life people who don't bother to put the tiniest bit of effort into planning their character?0 -
ofSunhold✭✭✭✭✭OtherMinimize them - same bonuses, much smaller numbers - and give us ways in-game to go and get the bonuses we want. Gift of Magnus: shrine at Eyevea; Red Diamond: shrine in Cyrodiil, like that. If any particular combination of three would be too OP, they could limit us to one regen, one stat pool boost, one "other."
It would be work to implement though, and I don't know if general dissatisfaction with being pigeonholed into certain races would make that work worth it. But yeah, it bothers me a lot that there are obvious BIS races for each class/spec, I'd love to see that made a lot less important.Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.1 -
MissBizz✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Minimize them - same bonuses, much smaller numbers - and give us ways in-game to go and get the bonuses we want. Gift of Magnus: shrine at Eyevea; Red Diamond: shrine in Cyrodiil, like that. If any particular combination of three would be too OP, they could limit us to one regen, one stat pool boost, one "other."
It would be work to implement though, and I don't know if general dissatisfaction with being pigeonholed into certain races would make that work worth it. But yeah, it bothers me a lot that there are obvious BIS races for each class/spec, I'd love to see that made a lot less important.
That sounds....
Like exactly what mundus stones are.Lone Wolf HelpFor the solo players who know, sometimes you just need a hand.PC | NA | AD-DC-EP | Discord1 -
Nihility42✭✭✭✭NoNo. If your RP choice is more important to you than performance, give up the tiny few percent you get from an optimal race and pick the race you want. If performance and min-maxing is most important, just pick the meta race. You have to prioritize, just like the million other choices you have to make in the game.2
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Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭OtherIt's really mind boggling about how it's an unforgivable sin for PvP to suffer because of pve changes and vice versa, but rpers/people more interested in cosmetics get a "tough luck, suck it up" every time, even when whatever suggestion is being debated would change effectively nothing in both PvP and pve. Goodness gracious, just let people enjoy multiple aspects of the game.Edited by Tonturri on March 26, 2018 1:33AM2 -
Facefister✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭No"Should they remove the attribute bonuses from races to encourage more diversity in class making?"
Making every race the same is the exact opposite of diversity. What comes next? That guy in the wheelchair should be the main-tank just for the sake of diversity?1 -
AlnilamE✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭NoIt's really mind boggling about how it's an unforgivable sin for PvP to suffer because of pve changes and vice versa, but rpers/people more interested in cosmetics get a "tough luck, suck it up" every time, even when whatever suggestion is being debated would change effectively nothing in both PvP and pve. Goodness gracious, just let people enjoy multiple aspects of the game.
Why would an RPer want to break the lore? Isn't that a contradiction?SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »(and you now need to gain five levels before you'll even know what your race does, if you don't look it up.)
If you seriously don't look it up before character creation, are you really the sort of person developers should be planning their game around? Is that even a thing though? Are there actual real life people who don't bother to put the tiniest bit of effort into planning their character?
I plan my characters. Just not around max DPS or whatever. They are all fine.The Moot Councillor0 -
Bbsample197✭✭✭✭Noyou think you can get a 25% increase in dps if your an argonian magsorc?? lol
its still diverse as what it gets, the increase in functionality is still minimal0 -
AcadianPaladin✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesGender choice in ESO is purely cosmetic. Is it such a leap to suggest that race choice follow the same path? My Bosmer was magically inclined in Oblivion and Skyrim with no effective penalty. She is still a magic user in ESO but for the first time in her 11 year Elder Scrolls career, suffers a small but notable penalty for being a magic-based character. Each character we play is, by definition, 'unique' (Vestige, destined to save the world, blah, blah) so it does not seem a stretch to me that each of our characters could be born with talents that perhaps do not fit the stereotype for their race.
Edited by AcadianPaladin on March 26, 2018 2:06AMPC NA(no Steam), PvE, mostly solo5 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭YesLore
except you are throwing out like 90% of the races lore by shoving them into racial passives.
For example:
Shadow scale Argonians, experts at sneaking and gorilla warfare
Redguards had a group of mages so powerful they sunk yokuda.
There are different sects in every damn race that does different things. To simply just throw that out and call it lore related is stupid and immersion breaking. You mean to tell me every dang elf running around in Summerset is a powerful mage? None of them are great warriors?Dude Where's My Guar?12 -
Geru77✭✭NoEnough with the beating of this dead horse. Be grateful for the rich lore and variation this game has and try to enjoy it...even build around it. Sorry...you won't find that on Alacast.0 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭YesSidewalkChalk5 wrote: »Races in Elder Scrolls are biologically different and inclined toward certain roles. You are free to roleplay an oddball that "breaks the mold" by doing something unusual, but you have to (and deserve to) pay the price with your character's effectiveness. The races do need some slight balancing but not to the extent suggested.
If a "choose your own passive" system is ever implemented, I hope it is very limited and balanced. Something like: Choose 1 Stat Buff (+10% Max Stat), 1 Recovery buff, and 1 flavor bonus (speed, defense, elemental damage, etc).
Maybe inclined but no defining to the degree in ESO, There are different sect in every race who do different things. Lore examples that No race is just flat out better at one thing then all the others. To suggest this throws out all the lore in the damn ES universe and how deep each races history is.Dude Where's My Guar?1 -
Animus-ESO✭✭✭✭✭YesIt's really mind boggling about how it's an unforgivable sin for PvP to suffer because of pve changes and vice versa, but rpers/people more interested in cosmetics get a "tough luck, suck it up" every time, even when whatever suggestion is being debated would change effectively nothing in both PvP and pve. Goodness gracious, just let people enjoy multiple aspects of the game.
Why would an RPer want to break the lore? Isn't that a contradiction?
Because the racial passives are only based off a very small part of lore, It doesn't completely take into the races history at all. Each race has a rich background of different sects who specialize in different things.
Redguards had mages who were so powerful they sunk an entire continent. (Yokuda) The narrow minded racial passives in eso insult how rich the racial lore is in the ES universe.
Dude Where's My Guar?4 -
ofSunhold✭✭✭✭✭OtherMinimize them - same bonuses, much smaller numbers - and give us ways in-game to go and get the bonuses we want. Gift of Magnus: shrine at Eyevea; Red Diamond: shrine in Cyrodiil, like that. If any particular combination of three would be too OP, they could limit us to one regen, one stat pool boost, one "other."
It would be work to implement though, and I don't know if general dissatisfaction with being pigeonholed into certain races would make that work worth it. But yeah, it bothers me a lot that there are obvious BIS races for each class/spec, I'd love to see that made a lot less important.
That sounds....
Like exactly what mundus stones are.
Similar. Which means we know they could do it.Classes that don't need any class ability nerfs: Nightblades, Dragonknights, Sorcs, Templars, Wardens.3 -
Kiralyn2000✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't careI already pick my race by what I feel like, sooo.... /shrugSidewalkChalk5 wrote: »If you seriously don't look it up before character creation, are you really the sort of person developers should be planning their game around? Is that even a thing though? Are there actual real life people who don't bother to put the tiniest bit of effort into planning their character?
I don't do it like that. Rarely have, in any game. Why need to do homework, just to play a game?
Just started a new character today. Since I have Morrowind now (from ordering the new chapter), my initial 'plan' was.... "I'm making a Warden!" That's it. I clicked create, picked gender & class, and then had to think about what Alliance and race I wanted. Picking those is the same as fiddling with your body sliders and picking your name, just go for it.
It took a few levels and staring at the skill lines a bit to decide whether I was going Stam or Magicka.
(I mean, sure - if your main goal is something like "top the vet trials leaderboards", then sure - min/max your character out to the last %. But for anyone not doing that, why not just do what you want to?)Edited by Kiralyn2000 on March 26, 2018 2:48AM1 -
arkansas_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭YesIMO the racial passives that affect combat (dark elf's increased fire damage, argonian's resource return on potion use, khajiit's extra weapon crit, orc's sprint speed, etc.) should be moved into a "Character Background" system that reflects what your character did for a living before the events of the game. The "flavor" passives like Argonian's swim speed, Orc's bonus to crafting XP, Nord's bonus to drink duration, etc. should remain tied to their races. This way, we have unique traits for every race that makes them feel unique from one another, while still allowing players to play whichever race they like without feeling gimped.ＦＯＲＵＭＰＬＡＲ
Grand Overlord 25/8/178 -
LegendaryOaks✭✭✭NoHigh elves are more genetically inclined to magicka because of their weak and brittle nature so they are more inclined to use it, humans such as nords are the opposite, which are strong and hardy, but most fail to have the mental capacity to become a master wizard.
Bretons were results of the nord's ancestors having children with high elves. Resulting in a race that has the sturdyness of a nord and the smarts of an elf.
I'm not saying that all humans are dumb and elves are weak as there has been exceptions to that, but the majority of them just happen to be that.
Anyway I like the racial differences and it's one of the only things I feel keeps this an elder scrolls game. Id be sad to see of that was removed.
If anything gets added they should make it where if you get proficient enough in a skill like destro staff or heavy armor then it should let you replace one of your current racial passives with something that would suit it more.Full Time Shitposter2 -
Tonturri✭✭✭✭✭Other
It's a common misconception that RPers never, eeeeever break or bend lore, and that doing so means you are the scum of the earth.This is incorrect. We break, bend, and make up lore all the time. I RP'ed a Lamia character for the first year of ESO and had to make up/guess a ton of stuff. It was great fun.It's really mind boggling about how it's an unforgivable sin for PvP to suffer because of pve changes and vice versa, but rpers/people more interested in cosmetics get a "tough luck, suck it up" every time, even when whatever suggestion is being debated would change effectively nothing in both PvP and pve. Goodness gracious, just let people enjoy multiple aspects of the game.
Why would an RPer want to break the lore? Isn't that a contradiction?SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »starkerealm wrote: »(and you now need to gain five levels before you'll even know what your race does, if you don't look it up.)
If you seriously don't look it up before character creation, are you really the sort of person developers should be planning their game around? Is that even a thing though? Are there actual real life people who don't bother to put the tiniest bit of effort into planning their character?
I plan my characters. Just not around max DPS or whatever. They are all fine.
But what does that have to do with anything? You say it like there haven't been multiple suggestions across many threads that maintain lore-stuffs while still making the difference between a Bosmer caster at max and an Altmer caster at max not quite so large. There's a breed of Khajiit that are pretty great casters, IIRC. Ohmes-raht or something?
Furthermore, I don't think I've ever seen an RPer be so ardently against something that might improve the game, even if it impinges upon their area of the game a little (and in this case, it actually does not due to the many racial options TES has that aren't available in game). I RP. Having racial passives in my char sheet reading 'you get 10% more magicka than a bosmer' means nothing to me, RP wise. It doesn't change what I'll be typing, etc etc. And don't forget the people who aren't RPers but want to explore min/maxy content while looking good.
ZOS coulda easily made Altmer passives something along the lines of 'gain x% more exp leveling magicka based skill lines' or whatever. There's a ton of ways to go about maintaining this or that race's supposed superiority in a certain area while letting people still pick the race they want for cosmetic reasons and not suffer for it in other areas of the game.
It's also aggravating when we get people on the forums going 'if you don't this or that, you don't DESERVE it', as if they've got some sort of divine right to decide who deserves what. Really? C'mon.
TLDR You seem to lack lore knowledge, a large amount of suggestions on the topic don't actually break lore.0 -
MLGProPlayer✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭YesYes please. I would have loved to be able to make a dark skinned mage. Unfortunately, only elves and white humans can be wizards in ESO.3 -
LegendaryOaks✭✭✭No
Been a sad day my broddaMLGProPlayer wrote: »Yes please. I would have loved to be able to make a dark skinned mage. Unfortunately, only elves and white humans can be wizards in ESO.
Full Time Shitposter0 -
Iluvrien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Nojasonthorpeb14_ESO wrote: »It's really mind boggling about how it's an unforgivable sin for PvP to suffer because of pve changes and vice versa, but rpers/people more interested in cosmetics get a "tough luck, suck it up" every time, even when whatever suggestion is being debated would change effectively nothing in both PvP and pve. Goodness gracious, just let people enjoy multiple aspects of the game.
Why would an RPer want to break the lore? Isn't that a contradiction?
Because the racial passives are only based off a very small part of lore, It doesn't completely take into the races history at all. Each race has a rich background of different sects who specialize in different things.
Redguards had mages who were so powerful they sunk an entire continent. (Yokuda) The narrow minded racial passives in eso insult how rich the racial lore is in the ES universe.
You are conflating two different things: biological inclination and training.
Sects are an embodiment of the latter. They are what you do to try and improve on your natural qualities. We see this in game through skill lines such as the Mages Guild, Fighters Guild, Dark Brotherhood, etc.
Racial inclination, for example such as Altmeri magicka use, is something else.
Do I think that cultural sects that embody different training programmes should be added to the game? Yep, definitely.
Do I think that the lack of same should be used as a reason to falsely conclude that the base of an incomplete system represents the restrictions of a complete one, and therefore all racials should be removed? Dear. Azura. No.1
