Sorc Healer or Tank

Avalon · March 2018

Just curious why I don't see many builds for SorcTanks or Healers... they have skills that look like they would lend themselves to the roles very well, but... just cannot seem to find any? Perhaps someone here can explain why...

Camb0Sl1ce · March 2018

its not so much that sorcs CANT tank or heal, theyre very capable of doing vet content. Even trials, its more to do with the fact DKs and wardens are better suited for it. As far as tanking goes, the sorc has a great crowd control ability, but no way to pull in ranged adds like a DKs chains, also the DKs helping hands passive allows them to turn mag into a little bit of stam while blocking. The sorc could use dark deal but it leaves the sorc vulnerable to oneshots by harder hitting bosses. So like i said, sorcs can tank and heal theyre just not as effecient at it as a DK or even Warden.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

I've played both in the past, and the fact of the matter is they just dont hold up that well in higher level content (higher level as in trials). My sorc tank was amazing for 4 mans, and performed better tanking trials than nightblade or templar (post-morrowind), but ultimately couldnt handle trials nearly as well as my warden or DK tanks.

Sorc healers are a little worse off than tanks IMO - the only actual group heal they've got comes from the twilight matriarch, which requires two bar slots and is heavily limited by AI and aoe damage effects, it just couldnt last in trials. Imagine if breath of life had to be put on both skill bars and half the time you needed it, it just didnt work because the pet was out of range. Not a good setup.

Beyond that, sorc healers just dont offer a lot to the group, and there's so many sorc dps (magicka and stamina alike) that their passive group benefits are already covered most of the time.

Tasear · March 2018

/lurk

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/349428/sorcerer-healers-collection-dragon-bones-updated-new-build-added#latest

Tasear · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've played both in the past, and the fact of the matter is they just dont hold up that well in higher level content (higher level as in trials). My sorc tank was amazing for 4 mans, and performed better tanking trials than nightblade or templar (post-morrowind), but ultimately couldnt handle trials nearly as well as my warden or DK tanks.

Sorc healers are a little worse off than tanks IMO - the only actual group heal they've got comes from the twilight matriarch, which requires two bar slots and is heavily limited by AI and aoe damage effects, it just couldnt last in trials. Imagine if breath of life had to be put on both skill bars and half the time you needed it, it just didnt work because the pet was out of range. Not a good setup.

Beyond that, sorc healers just dont offer a lot to the group, and there's so many sorc dps (magicka and stamina alike) that their passive group benefits are already covered most of the time.

Advantages
Aftereffect of restoring 4%to 20% of max, stamina, health and magic per synergy used to allies
2 ult to allies per synergy usage (if they have corresponding champion passive)
Better Resource Management compare to other healing classes
15 Bar slots instead of 10, as such more buffs then any other class
Better usage of Element Blockade compared to other classes
15k - 18k shield for allies via bone shield proc
Major vitality (30% more healing received) for 6 secs
Increased for damage output for allies over 51% percent
Very High uptime for concussion along with off balance
Better uptime for off balance and concussion.
Increased sustain via arcane well
Most reliable Heal in the Game *
10% magicka regain to allies
3% spell critical to allies
Minor Breech via posions
Crushing and Weakening Monsters

Try again...

FakeFox · March 2018

Probably cause there aren't many class specific guides out there in general. All tanks play the same and all healers play the same as well if you want to be competitive. You will have the exact same gear, as you have to use certain support sets, no matter what class and skills also change very little as the buffs you want mostly don't come from class skills.

RavenSworn · March 2018

I have both a sorcerer tank and a healer and I have to say I love both playstyles. It really just requires a different setup to shine.

Tasear · March 2018

Avalon wrote: »

Just curious why I don't see many builds for SorcTanks or Healers... they have skills that look like they would lend themselves to the roles very well, but... just cannot seem to find any? Perhaps someone here can explain why...

Because of time, and perception. It takes a long time to update or post a build. Also simply looking in wrong spot? There's a good number on eso academy and 3 on tamerial foundry. Some show pieces from some famous gamers. So they definitely exist for healers.

Tanks though.... well sorc tanks are the rarest.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Tasear wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've played both in the past, and the fact of the matter is they just dont hold up that well in higher level content (higher level as in trials). My sorc tank was amazing for 4 mans, and performed better tanking trials than nightblade or templar (post-morrowind), but ultimately couldnt handle trials nearly as well as my warden or DK tanks.

Sorc healers are a little worse off than tanks IMO - the only actual group heal they've got comes from the twilight matriarch, which requires two bar slots and is heavily limited by AI and aoe damage effects, it just couldnt last in trials. Imagine if breath of life had to be put on both skill bars and half the time you needed it, it just didnt work because the pet was out of range. Not a good setup.

Beyond that, sorc healers just dont offer a lot to the group, and there's so many sorc dps (magicka and stamina alike) that their passive group benefits are already covered most of the time.

Advantages
Aftereffect of restoring 4%to 20% of max, stamina, health and magic per synergy used to allies
Nothing that any other healer class doesnt have as well
2 ult to allies per synergy usage (if they have corresponding champion passive)
Again, nothing sorc-specific
Better Resource Management compare to other healing classes
Dark Exchange is good, you've got a point there, but I cant recall the last time I actually had sustain issues on a templar or nb healer.
15 Bar slots instead of 10, as such more buffs then any other class
Only if you waste an ult slot on overload, which stops you from actually healing because you've no longer got a resto staff equipped. Definitely dont agree on this being an advantage
Better usage of Element Blockade compared to other classes
Slightly better, sure, since you've got a little more lightning damage and can execute with it. Still not sure it's worth picking a sorc over another healer.
15k - 18k shield for allies via bone shield proc
Why are you using bone shield on a magicka healer? Also this is something a tank or DPS can run more efficiently, why would the healer waste a slot on it? Use ward ally.
Major vitality (30% more healing received) for 6 secs
Nightblades have access to major vitality as well, this isnt sorc-specific
Increased for damage output for allies over 51% percent
No idea where you're getting this from, do tell.
Very High uptime for concussion along with off balance
Slightly higher uptime than any other healer, and less than a magsorc dps would offer. All you've got to add to elemental blockade on a sorc healer is liquid lightning, and both are aoe damage over time and suffer the same reductions to proc chance for status effects.
Better uptime for off balance and concussion.
See above
Increased sustain via arcane well
nothing that any other healer cant access
Most reliable Heal in the Game *
Hardly, there was a post not long ago here that showed just how often the twilight likes to avoid combat and go sniff flowers while you're trying to use her heal
10% magicka regain to allies
Also offered by warden healers
3% spell critical to allies
Also offered by sorc DPS
Minor Breech via posions
You're seriously talking about offbalance/concussion uptime and using poisons? That doesnt add up at all.
Crushing and Weakening Monsters
Crushing should be the tank's job, not the healer's.

Try again...

Tasear · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've played both in the past, and the fact of the matter is they just dont hold up that well in higher level content (higher level as in trials). My sorc tank was amazing for 4 mans, and performed better tanking trials than nightblade or templar (post-morrowind), but ultimately couldnt handle trials nearly as well as my warden or DK tanks.

Sorc healers are a little worse off than tanks IMO - the only actual group heal they've got comes from the twilight matriarch, which requires two bar slots and is heavily limited by AI and aoe damage effects, it just couldnt last in trials. Imagine if breath of life had to be put on both skill bars and half the time you needed it, it just didnt work because the pet was out of range. Not a good setup.

Beyond that, sorc healers just dont offer a lot to the group, and there's so many sorc dps (magicka and stamina alike) that their passive group benefits are already covered most of the time.

Advantages
Aftereffect of restoring 4%to 20% of max, stamina, health and magic per synergy used to allies
Nothing that any other healer class doesnt have as well
2 ult to allies per synergy usage (if they have corresponding champion passive)
Again, nothing sorc-specific
Better Resource Management compare to other healing classes
Dark Exchange is good, you've got a point there, but I cant recall the last time I actually had sustain issues on a templar or nb healer.
15 Bar slots instead of 10, as such more buffs then any other class
Only if you waste an ult slot on overload, which stops you from actually healing because you've no longer got a resto staff equipped. Definitely dont agree on this being an advantage
Better usage of Element Blockade compared to other classes
Slightly better, sure, since you've got a little more lightning damage and can execute with it. Still not sure it's worth picking a sorc over another healer.
15k - 18k shield for allies via bone shield proc
Why are you using bone shield on a magicka healer? Also this is something a tank or DPS can run more efficiently, why would the healer waste a slot on it? Use ward ally.
Major vitality (30% more healing received) for 6 secs
Nightblades have access to major vitality as well, this isnt sorc-specific
Increased for damage output for allies over 51% percent
No idea where you're getting this from, do tell.
Very High uptime for concussion along with off balance
Slightly higher uptime than any other healer, and less than a magsorc dps would offer. All you've got to add to elemental blockade on a sorc healer is liquid lightning, and both are aoe damage over time and suffer the same reductions to proc chance for status effects.
Better uptime for off balance and concussion.
See above
Increased sustain via arcane well
nothing that any other healer cant access
Most reliable Heal in the Game *
Hardly, there was a post not long ago here that showed just how often the twilight likes to avoid combat and go sniff flowers while you're trying to use her heal
10% magicka regain to allies
Also offered by warden healers
3% spell critical to allies
Also offered by sorc DPS
Minor Breech via posions
You're seriously talking about offbalance/concussion uptime and using poisons? That doesnt add up at all.
Crushing and Weakening Monsters
Crushing should be the tank's job, not the healer's.

Try again...

Well you said they only 1 support skill and be honest what do Templars have but 1 burst heal and heal over time. Hats off to wardens.

The fact is sorc can provide more buffs from world skilled compared to all other classes because they can have 3 bars. Sure other classes can have but they can't use as many and some cases at use as well. So yes only warden and Templar being only good healers is wrong and shortsighted.

AcadianPaladin · March 2018

When playing my healer, I simply adore having foes chained away from me. When playing my tank, I simply love shards (instead of trying catch/chase orbs). Don't get me wrong - I'm happy to see any solid healer or tank show up but, all things being equal, yes, I do have mild preferences.

Anotherone773 · March 2018

I use a magsorc to heal. Its great, i can heal and still pull 8k dps in trash gear on bosses. Havent tried a tank though.

Morgul667 · March 2018

Im leveling a SorC Tank Heal to do daily pledges quickly and easily with 3 DPS

So far so good but still tuning it

Im going to switch bloodspawn for swarm mother though as the lack of grab is annoying

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I use a magsorc to heal. Its great, i can heal and still pull 8k dps in trash gear on bosses. Havent tried a tank though.

Should be getting more than that. Most healers can hit 15k~ just by stacking a few dots on their back bar.

Anotherone773 · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I use a magsorc to heal. Its great, i can heal and still pull 8k dps in trash gear on bosses. Havent tried a tank though.

Should be getting more than that. Most healers can hit 15k~ just by stacking a few dots on their back bar.

Heals is on my back bar, faster dungeon queues to toss a few heals out. Im level 35 and have about 150 CP allocated( lazy and its not allocated for healing) in blue gear that is 3-10 levels behind. Id say im doing ok.

Lynx7386 · March 2018

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I use a magsorc to heal. Its great, i can heal and still pull 8k dps in trash gear on bosses. Havent tried a tank though.

Should be getting more than that. Most healers can hit 15k~ just by stacking a few dots on their back bar.

Heals is on my back bar, faster dungeon queues to toss a few heals out. Im level 35 and have about 150 CP allocated( lazy and its not allocated for healing) in blue gear that is 3-10 levels behind. Id say im doing ok.

Ah ok, yea that's fine for a sub-160 with lower level gear.

Morgul667 · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I use a magsorc to heal. Its great, i can heal and still pull 8k dps in trash gear on bosses. Havent tried a tank though.

Should be getting more than that. Most healers can hit 15k~ just by stacking a few dots on their back bar.

Id be interested to know how they reach such numbers

for PUG intend.

15k is OK to finish most content if other players cant pull dps

Avalon · March 2018

Lynx,

About that list, and your responses... I noticed, you had responses like, Templars have that; NB has that; etc? But... think the point of the list (though potentially overselling Sorcs?) is that Sorcs have ALL of that, all of those abilities are under one roof, while yes, those other classes might have one or two here and there, they don’t have the full list. The others have a list of their own, I’m certain, and Sorc only has one or two on their list... but, for this list, Sorc has all of them.

As for tanking, though... and, I know, this is probably not much of an achievement compared to people who have Maelstrom weapons, gold gear, etc etc... but, I’m only working with purples, and mediocre gear. My Sorc tank is able to Solo a lot of the dungeons (still trying to work through all of them, and it takes a bit, but, I can do it). None of my other builds have ever been able to do that. And, honestly, my health pretty much never gets below 70% doing the dungeons. I consider that a pretty good achievement for me lol... so, that’s why I was asking about it.

Beardimus · March 2018

Avalon wrote: »

Just curious why I don't see many builds for SorcTanks or Healers... they have skills that look like they would lend themselves to the roles very well, but... just cannot seem to find any? Perhaps someone here can explain why...

@Tasear has a great Sorc Healz build on here, good for Vet content.

Personally i favour my Sorc healer all the way for PvE, as it has way more flexibility and DPS. also enjoy the more hybrid nature for PvP but Templar is good for zerg healing.

Honestly try it, with changes to things like Orbs to give stamina back Sorc heals are way more viable now for Vet stuff.

Beardimus · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've played both in the past, and the fact of the matter is they just dont hold up that well in higher level content (higher level as in trials). My sorc tank was amazing for 4 mans, and performed better tanking trials than nightblade or templar (post-morrowind), but ultimately couldnt handle trials nearly as well as my warden or DK tanks.

Sorc healers are a little worse off than tanks IMO - the only actual group heal they've got comes from the twilight matriarch, which requires two bar slots and is heavily limited by AI and aoe damage effects, it just couldnt last in trials. Imagine if breath of life had to be put on both skill bars and half the time you needed it, it just didnt work because the pet was out of range. Not a good setup.

Beyond that, sorc healers just dont offer a lot to the group, and there's so many sorc dps (magicka and stamina alike) that their passive group benefits are already covered most of the time.

Advantages
Aftereffect of restoring 4%to 20% of max, stamina, health and magic per synergy used to allies
Nothing that any other healer class doesnt have as well
2 ult to allies per synergy usage (if they have corresponding champion passive)
Again, nothing sorc-specific
Better Resource Management compare to other healing classes
Dark Exchange is good, you've got a point there, but I cant recall the last time I actually had sustain issues on a templar or nb healer.
15 Bar slots instead of 10, as such more buffs then any other class
Only if you waste an ult slot on overload, which stops you from actually healing because you've no longer got a resto staff equipped. Definitely dont agree on this being an advantage
Better usage of Element Blockade compared to other classes
Slightly better, sure, since you've got a little more lightning damage and can execute with it. Still not sure it's worth picking a sorc over another healer.
15k - 18k shield for allies via bone shield proc
Why are you using bone shield on a magicka healer? Also this is something a tank or DPS can run more efficiently, why would the healer waste a slot on it? Use ward ally.
Major vitality (30% more healing received) for 6 secs
Nightblades have access to major vitality as well, this isnt sorc-specific
Increased for damage output for allies over 51% percent
No idea where you're getting this from, do tell.
Very High uptime for concussion along with off balance
Slightly higher uptime than any other healer, and less than a magsorc dps would offer. All you've got to add to elemental blockade on a sorc healer is liquid lightning, and both are aoe damage over time and suffer the same reductions to proc chance for status effects.
Better uptime for off balance and concussion.
See above
Increased sustain via arcane well
nothing that any other healer cant access
Most reliable Heal in the Game *
Hardly, there was a post not long ago here that showed just how often the twilight likes to avoid combat and go sniff flowers while you're trying to use her heal
10% magicka regain to allies
Also offered by warden healers
3% spell critical to allies
Also offered by sorc DPS
Minor Breech via posions
You're seriously talking about offbalance/concussion uptime and using poisons? That doesnt add up at all.
Crushing and Weakening Monsters
Crushing should be the tank's job, not the healer's.

Try again...

Sorry @Lynx7386 the majority of those responses are biased nonsense. The kind of rhetoric i hear from clicky trials groups who haven't run with a decent Sorc Healer. Just a fake one with a Resto trying to wing in.

Vet dungeons with sub par DPS Pet Sorc has huge advantage over Templar

exeeter702 · March 2018

Lynx7386 wrote: »

Tasear wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

I've played both in the past, and the fact of the matter is they just dont hold up that well in higher level content (higher level as in trials). My sorc tank was amazing for 4 mans, and performed better tanking trials than nightblade or templar (post-morrowind), but ultimately couldnt handle trials nearly as well as my warden or DK tanks.

Sorc healers are a little worse off than tanks IMO - the only actual group heal they've got comes from the twilight matriarch, which requires two bar slots and is heavily limited by AI and aoe damage effects, it just couldnt last in trials. Imagine if breath of life had to be put on both skill bars and half the time you needed it, it just didnt work because the pet was out of range. Not a good setup.

Beyond that, sorc healers just dont offer a lot to the group, and there's so many sorc dps (magicka and stamina alike) that their passive group benefits are already covered most of the time.

Advantages
Aftereffect of restoring 4%to 20% of max, stamina, health and magic per synergy used to allies
Nothing that any other healer class doesnt have as well
2 ult to allies per synergy usage (if they have corresponding champion passive)
Again, nothing sorc-specific
Better Resource Management compare to other healing classes
Dark Exchange is good, you've got a point there, but I cant recall the last time I actually had sustain issues on a templar or nb healer.
15 Bar slots instead of 10, as such more buffs then any other class
Only if you waste an ult slot on overload, which stops you from actually healing because you've no longer got a resto staff equipped. Definitely dont agree on this being an advantage
Better usage of Element Blockade compared to other classes
Slightly better, sure, since you've got a little more lightning damage and can execute with it. Still not sure it's worth picking a sorc over another healer.
15k - 18k shield for allies via bone shield proc
Why are you using bone shield on a magicka healer? Also this is something a tank or DPS can run more efficiently, why would the healer waste a slot on it? Use ward ally.
Major vitality (30% more healing received) for 6 secs
Nightblades have access to major vitality as well, this isnt sorc-specific
Increased for damage output for allies over 51% percent
No idea where you're getting this from, do tell.
Very High uptime for concussion along with off balance
Slightly higher uptime than any other healer, and less than a magsorc dps would offer. All you've got to add to elemental blockade on a sorc healer is liquid lightning, and both are aoe damage over time and suffer the same reductions to proc chance for status effects.
Better uptime for off balance and concussion.
See above
Increased sustain via arcane well
nothing that any other healer cant access
Most reliable Heal in the Game *
Hardly, there was a post not long ago here that showed just how often the twilight likes to avoid combat and go sniff flowers while you're trying to use her heal
10% magicka regain to allies
Also offered by warden healers
3% spell critical to allies
Also offered by sorc DPS
Minor Breech via posions
You're seriously talking about offbalance/concussion uptime and using poisons? That doesnt add up at all.
Crushing and Weakening Monsters
Crushing should be the tank's job, not the healer's.

Try again...

Here, let me streamline it a little bit..

Sorcs and wardens are the only 2 that can give group memebers minor intellect.

Sorcs match templars and wardens in available synergy activations thanks to liquid lightning.

Sorcs are the only ones that can give major berserk to allies.

3rd bar does not suffer since you put matriarch there anyways. Matriarch burst heal is more than enough cushion for the window of which you need to hop into overload refresh a buff or 2 before jumping out.

As for healing output, that is a non factor as healing output across all 5 healers is actually VERY close.