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Should they remove the attribute bonuses from races to encourage more diversity in class making?
Vhozek
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I feel like if you want to be a physical dps, you grab Khajiit or Redguard and feel the need to do so again if you try a different approach at a physical dps. Same goes for magicka-based classes with Altmer and Breton. It feels like there's only a handful of races worth touching once you realize you don't do as well with the others.
I was thinking you could pick a race and then get a blessing somewhere that increases any of the tri-stats, essentially making any race viable to play any style. The thing making them different would be tools like an Argonian's tri-stat heal with potions, Orc sprint speed, and so on but obviously reworked in such a way that Argonians don't become the only playable race due to the tri-stat heal.
Edited by Vhozek on March 25, 2018 2:53PM I was thinking you could pick a race and then get a blessing somewhere that increases any of the tri-stats, essentially making any race viable to play any style. The thing making them different would be tools like an Argonian's tri-stat heal with potions, Orc sprint speed, and so on but obviously reworked in such a way that Argonians don't become the only playable race due to the tri-stat heal.
𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.
Should they remove the attribute bonuses from races to encourage more diversity in class making? 389 votes
Yes
27%
108 votes
No
61%
241 votes
Other
6%
24 votes
I don't care
4%
16 votes
1
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Yakidafi✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don't care
https://youtu.be/2-hkpLXwHUQ Moons and sands shall be your guide and path.
PC EU/NA4 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Lore
Yes, I understand it makes sense for Redguards to be really good at fighting and for Argonians to be really good at tanking, but don't you think the choice is just better? You could follow the lore and make give stamina bonuses to your Redguard or you could treat your Altmer as if he was raised by Redguards and also give him stamina bonuses while forgetting his magicka-based heritage.𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.6 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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In some situations, it is noticeable, but it isn't the cutoff between effective and ineffective that some members of the community like to suggest. In a lot of cases, it's not something you'll really see unless you scrutinize your DPS.2 -
KiraTsukasa✭✭✭✭✭OtherI think we should get to choose our body type (Argonian, Khajiit, Breton, etc) and then choose which passives we want. One experience bonus passive and three buildable passives, but no doubling up on stats (eg. if you choose one passive that gives you more stamina, you can't choose another one that also gives stamina). This way, we wouldn't be shoehorned into certain races for certain roles.6
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Shezzarrine✭✭✭✭✭NoLore
Yes, I understand it makes sense for Redguards to be really good at fighting and for Argonians to be really good at tanking, but don't you think the choice is just better? You could follow the lore and make give stamina bonuses to your Redguard or you could treat your Altmer as if he was raised by Redguards and also give him stamina bonuses while forgetting his magicka-based heritage.
Elven races are better at magic than human race because of biology, not because of how they were raised.7 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Shezzarrine wrote: »Lore
Yes, I understand it makes sense for Redguards to be really good at fighting and for Argonians to be really good at tanking, but don't you think the choice is just better? You could follow the lore and make give stamina bonuses to your Redguard or you could treat your Altmer as if he was raised by Redguards and also give him stamina bonuses while forgetting his magicka-based heritage.
Elven races are better at magic than human race because of biology, not because of how they were raised.
I know this, which is why I added the part where the Altmer forgets about his heritage, therefore forgetting he's good at magic by birth or simply not doing magic because he became a warrior. His experience with magic (bonus stats) don't exist for a character like this because they simply WON'T use magic and instead was replaced for stamina because they did train (level up) for it.Edited by Vhozek on March 25, 2018 3:20PM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.3 -
Narvuntien✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭NoNope... Meta players play meta and RP players play whatever they want.
Are you suggesting there is a large overlap?
Argonians need a nerf and Khajit a buff though.12 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Narvuntien wrote: »Nope... Meta players play meta and RP players play whatever they want.
Are you suggesting there is a large overlap?
Argonians need a nerf and Khajit a buff though.
The thing is that there are people out there like me who are meta players that are also RP players. I like to build holy tanks or holy warriors but I always feel stuck between 2 races. For a holy tank I always feel encouraged to grab Argonian even though it doesn't fit the aesthetic of what I'm going for. I then gotta go with Nord, but that just limits me to 1 race which isn't even my favorite either. Same thing goes for holy warriors where I wanna pick a Breton, but it's just not as good as picking Khajiit or a Redguard. Both of which don't go with the aesthetics I want.Edited by Vhozek on March 25, 2018 3:25PM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.7 -
wolfie1.0.✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭NoThe racial passives imo make them feel real and unique to play. Also I would argue that they are an essential part in TES games. Besides unless you are trying for the leaderboards they're is no in game content that you can't complete with an off stat racial bonus. And if you are shooting for the leaderboards I see no reason to change things either you should be required to max your stuff4 -
Vhozek✭✭✭✭✭
✭Would you guys say it's better if they just let you add 1 more stat to your race of choice that is NOT the same stat the race already gives you? Or if it gives you the option to change the stat in the race skills during character creation.Edited by Vhozek on March 25, 2018 3:38PM𝗡𝗼𝘁 𝘀𝗼𝗿𝗿𝘆, 𝗺𝗼𝗱𝘀. 𝗙𝗿𝗲𝗲 𝗕𝗶𝗿𝗱 𝘄𝗮𝘀 𝗽𝗹𝗮𝘆𝗶𝗻𝗴.4 -
Motherball✭✭✭✭I don't careThe bonuses make very little difference for the content I enjoy. I prefer having non-meta combos to choose from, but I don’t care if they remove the racial bonuses.Edited by Motherball on March 25, 2018 3:41PM0
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srfrogg23✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesI’d be fine with the stat passives going away and rolling those bonuses into the armor/weapon skill lines.
They’re pretty small bonuses, but it’s an MMO and there’s too many idiots out there that will use that as an excuse to boot people from groups because their characters aren’t “optimized”.
That, and aside from class choice, it’s the only skill set that can’t be changed after character creation.
I also don’t think “lore” is a solid enough reason to keep them. I’ve played the previous TES games ad nauseum and those racial abilities didn’t seem that important in those games either.4 -
Yo_Donno✭✭✭NoWhy not just remove race altogether and just make it a cosmetic thing?
There's a reason MMOs have racial passives.0 -
Oakmontowls_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭If you remove the max stat the meta won't change. If anything it will just cement certain races into roles. The elemental damage from altmer and dunmer would make Breton and argonian terrible in comparison.1 -
Silver_Strider✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭YesLorelore
Then explain to me how TF Argonian passives make sense from a Lore perspective. Argonians have been 1 of the lowest health races throughout the ES universe but have 9% health in ESO, tying it at 2nd with NORDS, one of the most hardy races in all of Lore. Explain to me how that, despite all their Lore as Shadowscales as well as mastery of Guerilla Warfare, Argonians have 0 passives related to sneaking or Stamina in general but SOMEHOW the almost nonexistent lore of Argonian Healers circumvented all of that to make them 1 of the best healer races in all of ESO.
The only passives that even remotely make any sense is the Poison/Disease resistance, which they've had in one form or another since Morrowind, and the Potion Passive as it's easy enough to see the correlation between that and drinking Hist Sap for an Argonian but literally every other passive on Argonian is a joke in regards to lore.Edited by Silver_Strider on March 25, 2018 8:03PMArgonian forever13 -
Raraaku✭✭✭✭NoI rather like the racial bonuses, I would argue that they encourage to play as other races due to their bonuses, otherwise I'd probably play all Khajiit/Orc/Argonian. While I can't speak for PvP (I rarely play it), but unless a player is totally devoted to a min/max meta play style; the bonuses don't seem to make enough of an impact for it to affect a player's gameplay experience. I have a hard time seeing a Khajiit MagSorc getting kicked from a dungeon just because it's a Khajiit, it may happen a few times but I doubt enough to be like "Dang, I should have picked an Altmer so I can play." I think you're much more likely to get kicked for something else, like tanking with a bow, than race.
Edited by Raraaku on March 25, 2018 5:41PMBack from a much needed break. || I like having too many projects and working on them all at once.
Tank Enthusiast || CP: 445 || Stormproof
TanksKarsaak gro-Ursa: DC || Orc || Stamina Dragonknight || Tank || Level: CP 445
Sir Leopold Stotch: DC || Breton || Magicka Templar || Tank || Level: 445
Protects-Squishy-Ones: EP || Argonian || Magicka Sorcerer || Tank/CC || Level: CP 445
Björn Shadow-Walker: EP || Nord || Stamina Nightblade || Tank || Level: 15
Tiberius Valerion: AD || Imperial || Stamina Warden || Tank || Level: 15
Damage DealersMorrigan Ravyn-Cloak: AD || Altmer || Magicka Nightblade || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ra'Zahkara: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Dragonknight || DPS || Level: CP 445
Ezra al-Khazir: DC || Redguard || Stamina Templar || DPS || Level: 40
Erryndril Telvaux: EP || Dunmer || Magicka Dragonknight || DPS || Level: 25
Uzara gra-Khalari: DC || Orc || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [2H/DW] || Level: 15
Solomon Motierre: DC || Breton || Magicka Sorcerer || DPS || Level: 20
Ragnar the Wulf: EP || Nord || Stamina Warden || DPS || Level: 30
Ra'Rahku: AD || Khajiit || Stamina Nightblade || DPS [Bow/Bow] || Level: 15
HealersSees-through-Hist: EP || Argonian || Magicka Warden || Healer/CC || CP 445
Daedalus the Artificer: AD || Altmer || Magicka Templar || Healer || Level: 150 -
SirCritical✭✭✭✭✭OtherAlmost no. Except I'd be curious about a free race-trait picking system. So you can play that race you want, and you can freely pick your boni from 4 categories.0
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Hrogun✭✭✭OtherI don't think they should remove racial attributes.
However, Zenimax could add alternate ways to "get even". For instance, when your Orc specializes in studying magicka for years, he should be able to go over his racial attributes and learn enough from the Mages Guild to grab the few missing points (maybe via a success obtained after reading x books or earning x millions points of healing or casting magicka skills, or whatever).
This way, the lore would be respected and racial attributes would make a small difference for quite some time, and still allow players more freedom in the end. The current grind for the Mages Guild skills line is boring as it is, why not use this opportunity to make things better and give more freedom to players.
Now, that said, racial attributes don't make that big a difference. I have been playing with non magicka races as a healer in vet content (including trials) without "gimping" my group. I'll admit that I'm not in a top tier guild though and have no desire to be. I sometimes get weird remarks (like once a year) and I have never been kicked because of my choice to not follow the meta. Same thing when I used to heal vet dungeons as a DK Healer. I stopped doing it because often tanks are DK and you should not gimp the group with your stupid shield when the tank has a great one, not because of lack of magicka or whatever.
In the end, it is one more reason to become good at what you do...PC EU
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emilyhyoyeon✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Yeseverytime someone makes a thread about racials like this, people respond that racials aren't impactful enough. In other contexts people say that racials ARE really impactful, not necessarily even only in vet trial content.IGN @ emilypumpkin
Tullanisse Starborne altmer spellsword battlemage & scholar of the ayleids
Qa'Rirra khajiit assassin & dancer
Seliwequen Narilata altmer necromancer & debaucher2 -
KingYogi415✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I hate when people make posts like this clearly pushing their own bias, but hiding it as a question.Edited by KingYogi415 on March 26, 2018 1:17AM5 -
ayu_fever✭✭✭✭✭Nothe race bonuses are nice, but in the big scheme of things they dont matter enough to keep players from using anything they want.
if i plan to change my stamina templar tank skills and attributes to be a healer one day i am keeping her a nord because i like nords the best. i am not in a guild and dont do trials (never have) so im not trying to min/max or impress anyone with bigger numbers from my abilities.
nothing wrong with using what is best in slot, just focus on having fun!PS4 NA
all characters are members of the ebonheart pact master race
BLOOD FOR THE PACT
main character:
Rebekah Straight-Fire, breton templar healer: THE FATEBRINGER (dungeons, trials, pvp)
—MERIDIA’S LUSTRANT— 1100+CP; alliance rank 21 (major grade 1); Rebekah is the most devoted and loyal follower of the lady of infinite energies and the highest ascendant of meridia’s purified legion and was forged from meridia’s brilliant radiance of purity.
other meta toons-
Alexa Straight-Fire, breton warden healer: THE ALCHEMIST (dungeons, trials)
Sasha Straight-Fire, nord dragonknight tank: THE UNBREAKABLE (dungeons, trials)
Freyja Straight-Fire, nord warden tank: THE ICEBERG (dungeons, trials)
Ororo Straight-Fire, dark elf magsorc: THE SHOCKWAVE (dungeons, trials)
Michonne Straight-Fire, redguard stamDK: THE EVISCERATOR (dungeons, trials)
just for fun toons-
Rhea Straight-Fire, wood elf warden stam healer: THE RANGER
Shiva Straight-Fire, high elf warden ice mage: THE CRYOMANCER
Morgana Straight-Fire, dark elf necromancer solo play: THE DEATHSINGER
Lucille Straight-Fire, dark elf nightblade solo play: THE VOIDWALKER
Diana Straight-Fire, nord templar tank: THE CLERIC
Falsetto Straight-Fire, orc stamsorc werewolf: THE THUNDERHOWL0 -
Saturn✭✭✭✭✭
✭NoI play my main damage dealer as an argonian. Does that mean I have a disadvantage yes, but I also have advantages such as more health and super potions. The difference is only really important if you are a super min/max'er, and even then there are disputes about which races are the best for each class. At the end of the day skill is still more important than race or gear, and a player with a "bad" race choice will still beat someone in terms of dps if their build is stronger, and they are capable of playing it better.
Race choice doesn't make as big of an impact as you might think, and those who blame bad dps on race do so because they fail to understand how to play their class correctly.1 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭OtherShezzarrine wrote: »Lore
Yes, I understand it makes sense for Redguards to be really good at fighting and for Argonians to be really good at tanking, but don't you think the choice is just better? You could follow the lore and make give stamina bonuses to your Redguard or you could treat your Altmer as if he was raised by Redguards and also give him stamina bonuses while forgetting his magicka-based heritage.
Elven races are better at magic than human race because of biology, not because of how they were raised.
The thing we actually lose in ESO is where that's not quite true. Your racial choice affects how much your character knows about a given subject, and how much experience they gained before their adventures began, but in the end, everyone has the same absolute capacity to learn a given subject.
So, the problem in ESO is that the stats are uncapped. A Breton who studies heavy armor will eventually be as good as an Orc or Nord who studies heavy armor. The skill caps at 100. They'll also be as strong, as said Orc or Nord if they put more effort in. Attributes capped at 100 as well, before Skyrim.
Your racial selection affected how well your character could perform, "out of the box," but it didn't determine long term success. One problem with ESO is that your racial choice matters more in endgame than at character creation (and you now need to gain five levels before you'll even know what your race does, if you don't look it up.)
Historically, Bretons and High Elves were better at holding larger Magicka reserves. That was their only real advantage as mages. Even the Dark Elves didn't have a bonus in that regard, just their resistance to fire.3
