Blobsky wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Nightblades were very, very unpopular (or better: underperforming) in during ESOs first years. I am glad that they are a great class now but - as you said - they are a bit overperforming. Too many great skills (Grim Focus, Cloak, Fear) for PvP.

Instead of nerfing NB I would prefer buffing the other classes.

You'd have to buff 7 specs in pvp. The number of changes required to fulfil this is way too high and in the end we'll just have other things which are overperfoming.
In pve we already need to buff certain specs like magdk, Magplar or magwarden as they are underperforming and this will result in New Balance issues.
It's like reworking Code or trying to find an error with an experiment. You want to change as few things as possible and once it's working again you improve it further

Idk what world you live in if you think magplar underperforms in PvP. I can literally afk and live 20s+ in a fight, let alone with purify, bol and eclipse. Top that off with potl morphs being the most brutal damage ability for any numbers above 2 in group (50k hp tanks can still hit 8k) and still extremely strong solo, you have the second easiest class in game after stam warden. I should know, I play one.

Note that I know the grand total of 4 good openworld magnb PvPers and that magNb sucked in PvE for years until the recent patch.

Great how you failed to see that i was talking about pve in the Magplar part i know that magplar is decent but no way it's the second easiest class after stamwarden.

I made a post some weeks ago where i wanted PotL to be changed to only count the damage of the caster while increasing the stored percentage.

Well let's start with good magnbs:
Derra, Vampireheart, Reaver, Running with scissors, CloakDD, EchtelionNacil, Fel, Subversuss, You and I'm sure i forgot the names of 3 others.

Blobsky wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

Seraphayel wrote: »

Nightblades were very, very unpopular (or better: underperforming) in during ESOs first years. I am glad that they are a great class now but - as you said - they are a bit overperforming. Too many great skills (Grim Focus, Cloak, Fear) for PvP.

Instead of nerfing NB I would prefer buffing the other classes.

You'd have to buff 7 specs in pvp. The number of changes required to fulfil this is way too high and in the end we'll just have other things which are overperfoming.
In pve we already need to buff certain specs like magdk, Magplar or magwarden as they are underperforming and this will result in New Balance issues.
It's like reworking Code or trying to find an error with an experiment. You want to change as few things as possible and once it's working again you improve it further

Idk what world you live in if you think magplar underperforms in PvP. I can literally afk and live 20s+ in a fight, let alone with purify, bol and eclipse. Top that off with potl morphs being the most brutal damage ability for any numbers above 2 in group (50k hp tanks can still hit 8k) and still extremely strong solo, you have the second easiest class in game after stam warden. I should know, I play one.

Note that I know the grand total of 4 good openworld magnb PvPers and that magNb sucked in PvE for years until the recent patch.

That’s not what he said. He said magplars are underperforming in PvE, and they are in the DD role.

Subversus wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?

In this last patch, basically nightblades became immune to two class specific and one general counter.

* Warden cliff racers are dodgeable. These used to be a nightblade’s bane, now they won’t ever hit you if you’re any good. Never. Hit.

* DK powerlash got a cooldown, and is now dodgeable. A nightblade will almost never get hit by this, the single most damaging regular skill proc that a magDK has, thats also tied to their burst heal. And they absolutely suck against good stamblades with it being dodgeable. Can’t hit you. Can’t heal. **** you ZOS.

* Soul Assault took a huge nerf to the snare, which used to be the whole point in using it. Its easy to escape now without dying.

So now TWO classes are now free AP Piñatas for nightblades that weren’t before. You are GOING to get a lot of these threads, you won’t like it, but neither do they.

Yes, and all of those were good changes because they really were countering medium armor builds too hard. I still see mDKs & Wardens doing well in Cyrodiil, BGs & Duels.

Also, you still get the heal from Power Lash even if it misses btw.


That said, I do agree that dodge roll spam needs to be toned down.

I like how it actually accomplishes something in this patch, but I dislike that people can spam it nonstop without running out of stamina.

So maybe ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier for dodge roll (or increase the duration for the debuff so that people can't use one cloak to just reset the counter & carry on spamming dodge roll until the next Incap).

Also, builds that struggle vs dodge roll tactics should get some undodgeable abilities (on par with Steel Tornado/Brawler which were recently changed to be undodgeable). For instance, bow builds should be able to bypass dodge roll with Acid Spray/Bombard.

Bottom line: Dodge is the strongest damage mitigation tool this patch. So many counters were removed for “consistency” that it’s ridiculous. It only follows that the cloaking/dodge roll class becomes the most powerful in Cyrodiil.

Rofl. Just because you don't have an instant win button with Soul Strike anymore (that skill is still brutal against roll builds tho) doesn't mean that roll dodge is overpowered - it's the only defense mechanic which has a freaking stacking cost, please explain me why nobody runs a roll build besides nightblades (which is the only class which can make them working with Cloak). You can spam shields and blockhealing far longer than rolldodging (and this even without using Harness Magicka which turns mag sustain into a joke). Make suggestions about magplar instead pretending that dodgeroll is the easymode cancer defense while shieldstacking and blocking is the incarnation of skill.

Subversus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Tan9oSuccka wrote: »

What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?

In this last patch, basically nightblades became immune to two class specific and one general counter.

* Warden cliff racers are dodgeable. These used to be a nightblade’s bane, now they won’t ever hit you if you’re any good. Never. Hit.

* DK powerlash got a cooldown, and is now dodgeable. A nightblade will almost never get hit by this, the single most damaging regular skill proc that a magDK has, thats also tied to their burst heal. And they absolutely suck against good stamblades with it being dodgeable. Can’t hit you. Can’t heal. **** you ZOS.

* Soul Assault took a huge nerf to the snare, which used to be the whole point in using it. Its easy to escape now without dying.

So now TWO classes are now free AP Piñatas for nightblades that weren’t before. You are GOING to get a lot of these threads, you won’t like it, but neither do they.

Yes, and all of those were good changes because they really were countering medium armor builds too hard. I still see mDKs & Wardens doing well in Cyrodiil, BGs & Duels.

Also, you still get the heal from Power Lash even if it misses btw.


That said, I do agree that dodge roll spam needs to be toned down.

I like how it actually accomplishes something in this patch, but I dislike that people can spam it nonstop without running out of stamina.

So maybe ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier for dodge roll (or increase the duration for the debuff so that people can't use one cloak to just reset the counter & carry on spamming dodge roll until the next Incap).

Also, builds that struggle vs dodge roll tactics should get some undodgeable abilities (on par with Steel Tornado/Brawler which were recently changed to be undodgeable). For instance, bow builds should be able to bypass dodge roll with Acid Spray/Bombard.

Bottom line: Dodge is the strongest damage mitigation tool this patch. So many counters were removed for “consistency” that it’s ridiculous. It only follows that the cloaking/dodge roll class becomes the most powerful in Cyrodiil.

This exactly!!!

I may be a little biased here, since I play magblade 99% of the time, but imo roll dodge is the single most overpowered defense mechanic this patch. Combine that with the ABSURD (!!!) 30% dodge chance that major evasion have and you'll be lucky to ever be able to catch a roller build (note how I didn't say rollerblade, even though they're the main culprits), let alone burst them down.

Also, the "mark me and it's gg" argument doesn't really add up. I shouldn't have to change up my build completely just so I can have a chance to beat one single spec. It's a flawed argument and it shouldn't exist to begin with.


FIRST OF ALL we need to get rid of major evasion. Combat in a fast paced game like ESO shouldn't depend on rng. It's absurd that I hit a player with the same ability 6 *** TIMES IN A ROW while he's standing still and I can't land a single one.

That's nonsense and you know that. First of all, Major Evasion is 15% and not 30%. And second, stam needs some fair defense as well, dodgeroll builds without Cloak aren't viable, otherwise non nb classes wouldn't all play tank builds. Magicka currently has better sustain, better pressure and better defense, only thing which makes stam looking stronger than it is is sword and board, cloak and heavy attacks.

Major evasion is 15% x2. If you miss the light attack weave you will miss the ability as well. So you have 15% chance to miss the ability followed by another 15% chance on the actual ability...

Not to mention that stam overall is far easier to play and more forgiving than magicka, and you must know that too. If you *** up putting a shield up you're in 1 hit territory, whereas stam can just pop a vigor and dodge roll a few times and it's back to square one.

As for the pressure, that's wrong. Stam can have just as much pressure as mag. Or what do you mean by pressure? Stam has superior burst by a long mile, and pvp is all about burst anyway. Mag duel builds that have good DOT pressure shouldn't even come into the discussion since those are meh in actual real pvp where you need to burst people down.

There's a reason why stamblades are so popular right now. If pvp was all about pressure they would be at the bottom, yet they're not.

Major Evasion isn't 30% but whatever.

Are you telling me that your 30k health heavy armor troll king magblade is unforgiving to play? Or that 50k magicka builds have weak defense? Or that you need to be a MLG pro gamer with 600 apm and 0.5 reaction time to successfully play a duroks mag build????? You should really try to play a stam class without Cloak (or stamblade when marked lol) on a bow build and rolldodge as defense, you're not in onehit territoy if you miss putting up a shield, you're in one hit territory the whole time on a normal med armor build. Stam defense is a joke compared to what magicka has (Healing Ward is saving the day), the only exception is Cloak (which is actually a magicka skill that is viable on the stamina counterpart of the class).

I shouldn't take a skill that actually deals 18k dmg, snares the opponent, roots the opponent and gives you major expedition into consideration because "dots are worthless in open world"? No problem in giving Cripple a stamina morph then, if everything is about burst? And give stamina an equivalent to Elemental Drain while we are at it

The reason why stamnb is popular is for sure not dodgeroll. And you should better prey that magblade doesn't get overnerfed at the same time instead of demanding nerfs for builds which you don't play.

We need an ulti cloak that cloaks your team for 10 sec and cannot be broken throughout the duration

BohnT wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

We need an ulti cloak that cloaks your team for 10 sec and cannot be broken throughout the duration

Yeah right...

Thanks I’m glad you agree.

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

BohnT wrote: »

joe.smith21b14_ESO wrote: »

We need an ulti cloak that cloaks your team for 10 sec and cannot be broken throughout the duration

Yeah right...

Thanks I’m glad you agree.

Yeah right...

Seriously people... all the classes in ESO are Rock, Paper, Scissors...

You can't keep making threads on Nerf those damn Rocks, they hit too hard and are way OP... but wait, those scissors are too damn sharp man, gotta NERF those Scissors!... but what about that pesky Paper? Totally smothers you... seriously that needs a NERF.

It doesn't matter what your class is, each has basic strengths and weaknesses, pro's and cons. If something is clearly out of balance it will get balanced, but this constant barrage of threads on 'Nerf every one else class but mine' are just pointless.

It's just Rock, Paper, Scissors. Learn to play against the mechanics of the other classes. The best way to do that is to roll all classess, play them and get an inside look yourself.

If anything, buff the classes that need some love.

As someone who has pvp'd with many different classes, these complaints are mainly L2P issues...and this is coming from someone who doesn't main a nightblade anymore.

BohnT wrote: »

MacCait wrote: »

Seriously people... all the classes in ESO are Rock, Paper, Scissors...

You can't keep making threads on Nerf those damn Rocks, they hit too hard and are way OP... but wait, those scissors are too damn sharp man, gotta NERF those Scissors!... but what about that pesky Paper? Totally smothers you... seriously that needs a NERF.

It doesn't matter what your class is, each has basic strengths and weaknesses, pro's and cons. If something is clearly out of balance it will get balanced, but this constant barrage of threads on 'Nerf every one else class but mine' are just pointless.

It's just Rock, Paper, Scissors. Learn to play against the mechanics of the other classes. The best way to do that is to roll all classess, play them and get an inside look yourself.

If anything, buff the classes that need some love.

Dude we are at the point where one class is clearly superior to 7 other specs in the game. Only stamwarden can compete and that is the next overpowered thing that needs balance.
You can't balance 7 specs at the same time without creating even more balance issues.
If we have roughly the same level things can get buffed again because then we can easily see how they affect overall gameplay this isn't doable in an appropriate way right now

So you point out a relevant issue... and your answer is NERF NERF NERF. Perhaps the real issues are ones that everyone is already aware of.

A, The nerf to sustain, although partially needed, went way overboard, so much so as to make things far too difficult for new and casual players, while Elite players continue to thrive.
B, We are going to have issues with balance FOREVER! ...until one day, IF that day ever comes, when ZOS finally seperates PvP and PvE CP.

Most issues surrounding nerf requests and these threads stem from PvP issues. With two seperate systems, the majority of players (who are PvE'ers NOT PvP'ers) can continue to enjoy the game, while the continual balance in PvP can rage on with nerfs and buffs... forever.

Wrobel's comment on why they won't seperate the CP system for PvP is that it's too much work.

With all respect, I'm sorry but most intelligent people don't buy that excuse. It's transparent.

The system for CP is already there. It just needed to be duplicated, and then set one way for PvE, and left the hell alone, while continually mess up the CP system while perpetually trying to balance PvP.

Saying its' too much work is a contradiction. Looks at the last few years. All the work that was wasted only to be thrown out the window and changed to something else. If the game is still here in 5 years, these same threads will be raging on Nerf this class, Nerf that class, just don't touch My class.

Overall it would be less work to just create two systems like some other games have done. ...and while your at it, just ease of on the insane nerfs to sustain that have done nothing for making the game more fun to play... just making it harder and more frustrating.

There are some stuff though that most people don't get also...

Nightblade aren't the best Single Target in PVE, they reach the highest dummy parse but are usually outparse by DK (stamina wise) who are easier to buff in raid. Same for magicka they do great parse but are usually beaten by petsorc during trial for the same reason. So #1 DPS... not really, and since they don't bring that much inside a group as a stamina they will usually be replace by a Stamplar. Also, Skill cap wise, Nightblade is the hardest PVE dps class to play which is also why they should have their spot in the DPS line up so... nerf for pve... not sure.

Now as far as PVP goes, yes Stamina Nightblade is a thing, always been tho, but have they got better lately ? or is it because the actual meta class (the StamWarden and the MagDk) aren't real counter to the Stamblade thus allowing them to shine more often then before .... Understand me, as a Stamblade I rather go toe to toe with a StamWarden and a MagDk then against a StamSorc or a Stamplar simply because of how the class perform against me and what type of counter they have. So I think this is also a thing to consider. Atm, yes Stamblade are powerfull in pvp, that's actually one of their key spot to shine but also atm they play against a meta which doesn't have much AoE to break their cloak thus allowing them better mobility and better strategic gameplay.

So that's a question too, could Nightblade be played as a MagDk and go toe to toe against anyone... nan, but they do have their thing and are they good at it ... yes, do they even got better since noone bother to bring AoE nowadays... yeah that to lolll, but to be honest if I wanted to Nerf Nightblade atm I would give Incapacitate, Minor Defile instead of Major Defile and had the question over with. The burst of the Nightblade is what makes the Nightblade, the actual issue most player encounter when they fight against a good Nightblade is that they cannot recover fast enough because of Major Defile and get killed by the Nightblade DPS... so if you had to nerf, Nerf Major Defile lol you would not stop glass canon from being severely punish by the nightblade playstyle which is actually one of their key element, but also you will stop the free kill major defile allow a good nightblade to get if he caught someone offguard.

2cent

also on another topic ... fear shouldnt snare. Its duration being unblockable and undodgable hitting up to 4 people is quite alot also has no business snaring even after "breaking-free".

If it should snare it should hit 1 person not 4. Otherwise allow other unblockable and undodgable CC hit 4 people.

There is a reason why NB is so popular. Wonder what that could be?