DKs need a reform because the game has changed.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Well ***. The 4s power lash heal is gone. The last patch changes are swaying towards nerf again.

dodgehopper_ESO · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion on reflective scales. I love this skill but I've always felt it shouldn't be a 100% reflect. Reflect is like dodge only better: It sends the enemies weapons back in their face. It is for this reason I've always felt that it should be more of a defense mechanic that has a 25% chance or something along those lines, but lasts more in line with a skill line blur so 33 seconds-ish. It'd be fire and forget and a very powerful defensive tool as well as offense and the savings in magicka would be huge for DK's.

we don't need more RNG crap in this game. in its current state wings are meh, but if it was a buff that had %25 change people would riot for DK nerfs. As of right now there is clear counterplay against wings, you see the effect, you know reflect is on, you know its limited to 4, you know it lasts 6 seconds, counterplay is here. If It was a shuffle like buff, it would be so cancer.

My suggestion just makes it possible for ranged attackers to burst you, at a price. I don't take away without giving back though. I admit its a nerf and a buff at the same time. It would still only deal with ranged attacks so its not exactly a shuffle-like buff. My suggestion would make it fall in line more with the tanky style of a DK and keeping up long term pressure on opponents.

duude, to be honest, I would never ever drop wings if it was a %25 chance reflect buff for like 20 seconds.
Would be amazing on my stam or magDk.
But that could be ridicilously broken and worse; RNG based, you see my point right?

extremely hard to kill DK that also randomly reflects every 1 projectile out of 4... I don't even need to test it like, I can just think of it existing and I can already see the nerf DK threads popping from now ^^

Making wings a long time buff like shuffle is a very good idea to make the ability good, but a very bad idea to make the ability balanced.

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion on reflective scales. I love this skill but I've always felt it shouldn't be a 100% reflect. Reflect is like dodge only better: It sends the enemies weapons back in their face. It is for this reason I've always felt that it should be more of a defense mechanic that has a 25% chance or something along those lines, but lasts more in line with a skill line blur so 33 seconds-ish. It'd be fire and forget and a very powerful defensive tool as well as offense and the savings in magicka would be huge for DK's.

we don't need more RNG crap in this game. in its current state wings are meh, but if it was a buff that had %25 change people would riot for DK nerfs. As of right now there is clear counterplay against wings, you see the effect, you know reflect is on, you know its limited to 4, you know it lasts 6 seconds, counterplay is here. If It was a shuffle like buff, it would be so cancer.

That works against stamdks, magdks can keep up wings as long as they want, there's really not much counterplay. I'm for a change: the reflect works for
2 seconds, then you have a 1 sec downtime and then it pulses again for 2 seconds, another 1 sec downtime and then another 2 seconds of reflect. The maximum amount of reflects is nerfed to 3 projectiles but it refreshes after during the cd. This removea the 100% shutdown but increases the total number of reflects. So we don't have a " you can't touch me button" but a " if you can time your things right you can still hit me"

Ofc you can spam the ability to get a 100% reflect uptime but that is tied with high cost.

actually make you need around 1100-1200 magicka regen to just be able to have an uptime on wings. even for magDks it has some cost.
Surely they can spam it in 1v1s A LOT, but in open world things change drastically, think of it like sorc shields, effective in 1v1s, but loses its strength very fast against multiple attackers.

They could lower it to 20% or 15%. I've also suggested this in the past.

Kilandros · March 2018

More sustain, more threatening DoTs, more active defense beyond just blocking.

ak_pvp · March 2018

Kilandros wrote: »

More sustain, more threatening DoTs, more active defense beyond just blocking.

With more sustain and better defense more threatening dots will come. The max damage of a DK is massive.

Kilandros · March 2018

ak_pvp wrote: »

Kilandros wrote: »

More sustain, more threatening DoTs, more active defense beyond just blocking.

Kilandros wrote: »

More sustain, more threatening DoTs, more active defense beyond just blocking.

With more sustain and better defense more threatening dots will come. The max damage of a DK is massive.

Eh, not really. MagDK damage can be good if not excellent in a couple of niche PvP settings but it's nowhere near Bomblade and nowhere near massive. And in PvE, MagDK damage is bottom tier.

Savos_Saren · March 2018

It's upsetting to be waddling around Cyrodiil or Battlegrounds... trying to catch up to the fight with no expedition... only to be ganked by a NB. Even if you have Volatile Armor up- your self heals are wrecked by Incap Strike. IF you manage to tag the NB with Burning Embers- they immediately cloak and ignore those DoTs (which DKs are supposedly "the best DoT builds") and the self heals from Burning Embers aren't applied. The NB then gets to reset the fight and try another quick Fear, Surprise Attack spam, Execute phase combo.

The worst is dying from a Sorc's dual execute. Mage's Wrath AND Implosion.

It just feels like the abilities we need are so spread out on our skill line- some need to be shifted and moved in order for us to be more formidable in PVP.

Ragnarock41 · March 2018

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion on reflective scales. I love this skill but I've always felt it shouldn't be a 100% reflect. Reflect is like dodge only better: It sends the enemies weapons back in their face. It is for this reason I've always felt that it should be more of a defense mechanic that has a 25% chance or something along those lines, but lasts more in line with a skill line blur so 33 seconds-ish. It'd be fire and forget and a very powerful defensive tool as well as offense and the savings in magicka would be huge for DK's.

we don't need more RNG crap in this game. in its current state wings are meh, but if it was a buff that had %25 change people would riot for DK nerfs. As of right now there is clear counterplay against wings, you see the effect, you know reflect is on, you know its limited to 4, you know it lasts 6 seconds, counterplay is here. If It was a shuffle like buff, it would be so cancer.

My suggestion just makes it possible for ranged attackers to burst you, at a price. I don't take away without giving back though. I admit its a nerf and a buff at the same time. It would still only deal with ranged attacks so its not exactly a shuffle-like buff. My suggestion would make it fall in line more with the tanky style of a DK and keeping up long term pressure on opponents.

duude, to be honest, I would never ever drop wings if it was a %25 chance reflect buff for like 20 seconds.
Would be amazing on my stam or magDk.
But that could be ridicilously broken and worse; RNG based, you see my point right?

extremely hard to kill DK that also randomly reflects every 1 projectile out of 4... I don't even need to test it like, I can just think of it existing and I can already see the nerf DK threads popping from now ^^

Making wings a long time buff like shuffle is a very good idea to make the ability good, but a very bad idea to make the ability balanced.

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion on reflective scales. I love this skill but I've always felt it shouldn't be a 100% reflect. Reflect is like dodge only better: It sends the enemies weapons back in their face. It is for this reason I've always felt that it should be more of a defense mechanic that has a 25% chance or something along those lines, but lasts more in line with a skill line blur so 33 seconds-ish. It'd be fire and forget and a very powerful defensive tool as well as offense and the savings in magicka would be huge for DK's.

we don't need more RNG crap in this game. in its current state wings are meh, but if it was a buff that had %25 change people would riot for DK nerfs. As of right now there is clear counterplay against wings, you see the effect, you know reflect is on, you know its limited to 4, you know it lasts 6 seconds, counterplay is here. If It was a shuffle like buff, it would be so cancer.

That works against stamdks, magdks can keep up wings as long as they want, there's really not much counterplay. I'm for a change: the reflect works for
2 seconds, then you have a 1 sec downtime and then it pulses again for 2 seconds, another 1 sec downtime and then another 2 seconds of reflect. The maximum amount of reflects is nerfed to 3 projectiles but it refreshes after during the cd. This removea the 100% shutdown but increases the total number of reflects. So we don't have a " you can't touch me button" but a " if you can time your things right you can still hit me"

Ofc you can spam the ability to get a 100% reflect uptime but that is tied with high cost.

actually make you need around 1100-1200 magicka regen to just be able to have an uptime on wings. even for magDks it has some cost.
Surely they can spam it in 1v1s A LOT, but in open world things change drastically, think of it like sorc shields, effective in 1v1s, but loses its strength very fast against multiple attackers.

They could lower it to 20% or 15%. I've also suggested this in the past.

Could work as a passive %15 chance like shuffle. But as I said it still will be problematic, will result in ''nurf Dk'' threads.
Your suggestion would greatly benefit stamDKs while it would be questionable change for magDks, but either way I don't think it is a good idea to add more RNG elements into the game, especially when it comes to reflecting a spell, there should be clarity so both Dks can rely on their wings and their enemies can rely on visual cue to know that they're getting a reflect or not, instead of just ''oh, my projectile reflected back at me cus RNG''

ak_pvp · March 2018

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion on reflective scales. I love this skill but I've always felt it shouldn't be a 100% reflect. Reflect is like dodge only better: It sends the enemies weapons back in their face. It is for this reason I've always felt that it should be more of a defense mechanic that has a 25% chance or something along those lines, but lasts more in line with a skill line blur so 33 seconds-ish. It'd be fire and forget and a very powerful defensive tool as well as offense and the savings in magicka would be huge for DK's.

we don't need more RNG crap in this game. in its current state wings are meh, but if it was a buff that had %25 change people would riot for DK nerfs. As of right now there is clear counterplay against wings, you see the effect, you know reflect is on, you know its limited to 4, you know it lasts 6 seconds, counterplay is here. If It was a shuffle like buff, it would be so cancer.

My suggestion just makes it possible for ranged attackers to burst you, at a price. I don't take away without giving back though. I admit its a nerf and a buff at the same time. It would still only deal with ranged attacks so its not exactly a shuffle-like buff. My suggestion would make it fall in line more with the tanky style of a DK and keeping up long term pressure on opponents.

duude, to be honest, I would never ever drop wings if it was a %25 chance reflect buff for like 20 seconds.
Would be amazing on my stam or magDk.
But that could be ridicilously broken and worse; RNG based, you see my point right?

extremely hard to kill DK that also randomly reflects every 1 projectile out of 4... I don't even need to test it like, I can just think of it existing and I can already see the nerf DK threads popping from now ^^

Making wings a long time buff like shuffle is a very good idea to make the ability good, but a very bad idea to make the ability balanced.

BohnT wrote: »

Ragnarock41 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

I disagree with your suggestion on reflective scales. I love this skill but I've always felt it shouldn't be a 100% reflect. Reflect is like dodge only better: It sends the enemies weapons back in their face. It is for this reason I've always felt that it should be more of a defense mechanic that has a 25% chance or something along those lines, but lasts more in line with a skill line blur so 33 seconds-ish. It'd be fire and forget and a very powerful defensive tool as well as offense and the savings in magicka would be huge for DK's.

we don't need more RNG crap in this game. in its current state wings are meh, but if it was a buff that had %25 change people would riot for DK nerfs. As of right now there is clear counterplay against wings, you see the effect, you know reflect is on, you know its limited to 4, you know it lasts 6 seconds, counterplay is here. If It was a shuffle like buff, it would be so cancer.

That works against stamdks, magdks can keep up wings as long as they want, there's really not much counterplay. I'm for a change: the reflect works for
2 seconds, then you have a 1 sec downtime and then it pulses again for 2 seconds, another 1 sec downtime and then another 2 seconds of reflect. The maximum amount of reflects is nerfed to 3 projectiles but it refreshes after during the cd. This removea the 100% shutdown but increases the total number of reflects. So we don't have a " you can't touch me button" but a " if you can time your things right you can still hit me"

Ofc you can spam the ability to get a 100% reflect uptime but that is tied with high cost.

actually make you need around 1100-1200 magicka regen to just be able to have an uptime on wings. even for magDks it has some cost.
Surely they can spam it in 1v1s A LOT, but in open world things change drastically, think of it like sorc shields, effective in 1v1s, but loses its strength very fast against multiple attackers.

They could lower it to 20% or 15%. I've also suggested this in the past.

Could work as a passive %15 chance like shuffle. But as I said it still will be problematic, will result in ''nurf Dk'' threads.
Your suggestion would greatly benefit stamDKs while it would be questionable change for magDks, but either way I don't think it is a good idea to add more RNG elements into the game, especially when it comes to reflecting a spell, there should be clarity so both Dks can rely on their wings and their enemies can rely on visual cue to know that they're getting a reflect or not, instead of just ''oh, my projectile reflected back at me cus RNG''

Yeah that is the thing. Neither side likes. RNG because it's either a Bs win if it procs or Bs win if it doesn't.

Whereas the changes in the OP are more usable and fair for both sides and involve buffs and nerfs. And since wings unlike shield are discreet protection, so one projectile is one projectile, on a shield how much it takes off can vary. So it could work well as a per person defense.