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Incoherent Balance and Unbridled Bias - Cloak is Fine, Streak is Nerfed
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Conduit0✭✭✭✭✭
✭Gotta love all of the Nightblades obsessively defending their broken skill to the bitter end.10 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »King_Thelon wrote: »
@NyassaVStreak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Streaking 4 times not only bleeds every MagSorc in the game dry, but every player with access to a snare, root and / or gap closer says lol. Please friend go play MagSorc solo for 100 hours and try for yourself.
Streak is fine the way it is. It was absolutely overpowered without the increasing cost.
Hope you don't mind that I cut your text a bit short. But streak is not fine. Every single gap closer counters it. It would be absolutely fine if it gave a short gap closer immunity. So we still have to streak twice but at least we could get away.0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »King_Thelon wrote: »
@NyassaVStreak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Streaking 4 times not only bleeds every MagSorc in the game dry, but every player with access to a snare, root and / or gap closer says lol. Please friend go play MagSorc solo for 100 hours and try for yourself.
Streak is fine the way it is. It was absolutely overpowered without the increasing cost.
Hope you don't mind that I cut your text a bit short. But streak is not fine. Every single gap closer counters it. It would be absolutely fine if it gave a short gap closer immunity. So we still have to streak twice but at least we could get away.
And how is that better with Cloak? And what do classes like Templar or DK that have neither Cloak nor Streak do? They can't get away.
Streak as it is now is still better than no Streak, isn't it?Edited by Seraphayel on March 22, 2018 9:38PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -2 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ilithyania wrote: »cloak has had some nerfs too:
Compare cloak to literally every other defense in practice. It is by far the best scaling and best mitigating and best escaping tool. Only Mark/DPs are zergy OP counters.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.3 -
Emmagoldman✭✭✭✭✭
✭Streak---> gap close ----> streak ---> gap close
Streak is on one hand a great counter to night blades. I think cloak is fine, but i would like to see either a slight decrease to the cost of streak or a slight increase to the range. Nothing op. As of now, you cannot out distance a gap closer leaving the only spec unable to catch you is a magdk, which lacks speed and a gap closer in vlass or weapon. Chains usually arnt the most reliable and if up close for a magsorc a huge threat.
Sorcs need the above mentioned for streak
Frags--> 1 morph to have a stun at low dmg, another with past dmg but no stun.
Not huge changes but it would add better game play and variety outside of nothing but master staff builds
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BigBadVolk✭✭✭✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »
Shade would be a better comparison"The ass is similar to the opinion: Everyone has it, but no one cares about the others!"
I'm 120 years old2 -
Universe✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GoodFella146 wrote: »Adding the Streak penalty to cloak seems pretty reasonable to me
Exactly!
Cloak should have an increased cost.
Maybe not same as streak but increased cost if used again in less than 4 seconds.
But sadly this has been suggested multiple times and the developers team ignored the feedback.
Right now over 50% of Cyrodiil population are Nightblades, "balanced"(proof ? just go to cyrodiil and find out).
Shadow Cloak should be changed to the following(Shadowy Disguise-example):
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds. Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.
Casting again within 4 seconds cost 30% more Magicka.
Bolt Escape should be changed to the following(Streak-example):
Transform yourself into pure energy and flash forward, stunning enemies near origin location for 2 seconds.
Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effects for 2 seconds.
Casting again within 4 seconds cost 40% more Magicka.Some videos I recorded for fun: Main character:
PC EU main: Universe - AD magicka Sorcerer, Former Emperor, Grand Overlord, The Merciless, Trial Bosses Solo Champion
Top alts: Genius(stamina/sagicka Dragonknight) The Force(stamina Nightblade) and other chars.
PC NA main: The Magic - AD magicka Sorcerer
Started playing ESO in beta & early access
User_ID: Daedric_Prince2 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Streak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Let's not go all crazy now. If I cloak 2-4 times, I am gone unless someone used a detect pot, snared me for 50%+, dropped a fast pulsing AoE, or hit me with a cloak breaking DoT or an effect that prevents cloaking.
Vampire + concealed weapon (yes, the magicka version). I walk/run faster cloaked than I do uncloaked. There are plenty of good spammables to replace suprise attack with, my personal favorite is shrouded daggers. Way underused, snare up to 3 enemy.
I personally have more success using streak than cloak, but it's more a function of being a stam NB and needing the magicka for more things than a sorc needs stam. In both cases, there are various tricks to getting away but my success rate is highest going through my opponent. That's obvious for streak, and it takes an extra step with cloak (they need to see you running away from them before you switch directions and go through them), but both have a generally high success rate that drops to near zero when facing players that know what to do.
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waitwhat✭✭✭✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »@ZOS_Wrobel
10 updates ago, you nerfed streak to the ground, making sorcerer the only class in the history of the game that is punished with a stacking cost to an ability:
This is false. Roll-dodging has an exponentially increased cost after each use as well, punishing all classes that rely upon roll-dodging for damage mitigation with a stacking cost to an ability.
Just because it isn't on the bar or on the tooltip doesn't mean it doesn't matter.PS4 NA AD ScourgeVivec Loading Screen Simulator 2017
Khajiit stamblade main - Walking the Two-Moons Path and robbing cute Breton boys.
Breton magplar vet Trial Healer - Promoting wellness through self-reflection.
Argonian Tripot DK Cyrodiil Tank - One with the Hist and guarding cute Breton boys.
Altmer magsorc PvE DPS - Scamp tramp and unrepentant lush.
"30s to eval"
"Read the ******* lorebook."7 -
brandonv516✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Need to change the following:
Cloak removes snares when casted.
Streak removes snares when casted.
Wings removes snares when casted.
Crystal Shield removes snares when casted.
Ritual has reduced costs.
Everyone wins.3 -
mb10✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You dont understand lol.
Nightblades have NO proper self heals or shields.
Nerf cloak and the class is pretty much finished.
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ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You dont understand lol.
Nightblades have NO proper self heals or shields.
Nerf cloak and the class is pretty much finished.
Rebalance it fairly then. Counters become less zergy but more reliable for the users. Dots tick, miss trail fixed, crit fixed to work for anything, healing and damage in cloak. so then the dot ticks are less painful.
StamDK has no healing worth while either, (Inb4 GDB burst) mending+minor vit+DK passives is still less amps than cloak. You also have the power of stopping all ST attacks, and being invisible. Legitimately just that is better, both scaling and mitigation, than all other defenses. If other classes have to sacrifice things for survival, so should NB.MagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.3 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭You dont understand lol.
Nightblades have NO proper self heals or shields.
Nerf cloak and the class is pretty much finished.
I assume you mean stamina nightblade.
Even then, Nightblades roll dodging around in circles at the top of towers 24/7 want to have a word with you. Shadowimage made it ludicrous. Although I haven't seen anyone use that in a while, is it broken again? Even though invig is not a class heal, it also hurts the argument.
Now you might say that any meta where rolling around in the dirt and running away from the enemy should not be in an epic/hero based game, and I wouldn't argue with you.2 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Just FYI you can gap close spam cloak as well, and the gap closer snare still effects you when you cloak. I had a nightblade about 30 minutes ago spam abush and steel tornado over and over again to prevent me from cloaking I couldn't even move and eventually got zerged down. Large groups spamming gap closers is the counter to all3 -
WakeYourGhost✭✭✭✭✭GoodFella146 wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »GoodFella146 wrote: »Adding the Streak penalty to cloak seems pretty reasonable to me
Or how bout we keep cooldowns out of this game so it doesn't turn into guild wars.
Ok remove the Streak penalty then. Or even better give vampires a cloak so that every class can cloak
That is actually a brilliant idea that has foundations in the Lore.
Lyrezi clan from "Daggerfall" (Which Lamae Bal created) could Turn Invisible.
It could easily be a weaker Cloak.
They could also add another power that raises your Elemental Resistances in some fashion
And one that casts some form of Silence for a short time.
A full skill tree that draws on the Lore
Several other abilities already have "weaker" forms with altered effects scattered through out the skill trees - This one seems fair enough.0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GoodFella146 wrote: »Adding the Streak penalty to cloak seems pretty reasonable to me
Exactly!
Cloak should have an increased cost.
Maybe not same as streak but increased cost if used again in less than 4 seconds.
But sadly this has been suggested multiple times and the developers team ignored the feedback.
Right now over 50% of Cyrodiil population are Nightblades, "balanced"(proof ? just go to cyrodiil and find out).
Shadow Cloak should be changed to the following(Shadowy Disguise-example):
Cloak yourself in shadow to become invisible for 2.5 seconds. Your next attack within 3 seconds will always be a Critical Strike.
Casting again within 4 seconds cost 30% more Magicka.
Bolt Escape should be changed to the following(Streak-example):
Transform yourself into pure energy and flash forward, stunning enemies near origin location for 2 seconds.
Also grants you immunity to knockback and disabling effects for 2 seconds.
Casting again within 4 seconds cost 40% more Magicka.
Lol cloak for 2.9 seconds with rank 2 Dark Veil passive, can't cloak for 4 secs on 10K magicka stamblade.
Increase the duration of the cloak to 4 seconds and maybe.
Edited by TequilaFire on March 23, 2018 3:07AM1 -
Thunderknuckles✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.
Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.
Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.
Streak also causes damage, too. And stuns. I'll admit it. In the IC sewers the other day a sorc and I came across each other unexpectedly and he reacted very quickly. Well, just enough faster than me to hit Streak. He didn't run off. He instantly streaked back and forth about 4 times and the shock damage plus whatever else he was firing off just blew me up. "Why ain'tchoo juss break free, d00D!?" In case you forgot, it also stuns. I was basically stun locked till dead. LOL
I wouldn't say that Streak has been gimped too much. Cloak certainly doesn't stun AND damage nearby enemies.
Edited for typo.Edited by Thunderknuckles on March 23, 2018 3:09AM5 -
kyle.wilson✭✭✭✭✭
✭Tan9oSuccka wrote: »King_Thelon wrote: »
@SeraphayelSeraphayel wrote: »Oh man, Sorcs bragging about Nightblades. As a DK or Templar I'd wish to have the nerfed Streak because it is still better than everything my class has.
Sorcerers and Nightblades are the two classes that really should not complain about anything in that regard.
Friend please go play 100 hours solo on a MagSorc. You will quickly learn that EVERY STAMINA CLASS has better mobility. Forward momentum + sprint outshines MagSorc's class-defining "escape" mechanism by miles.
Do you really think Stamina characters use sprint to escape?
That's exactly what they do. Almost no mag build can keep up to a stam build, and if they try they just leave themselves open to being CC locked without stam.
When I'm CC'd on a mag sorc a stam build can easily jog to keep up with my attempt to streak.
Which is why if I'm trying to bail I usually streak through the target while drinking an invis pot.
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NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »King_Thelon wrote: »
@NyassaVStreak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Streaking 4 times not only bleeds every MagSorc in the game dry, but every player with access to a snare, root and / or gap closer says lol. Please friend go play MagSorc solo for 100 hours and try for yourself.
Streak is fine the way it is. It was absolutely overpowered without the increasing cost.
Hope you don't mind that I cut your text a bit short. But streak is not fine. Every single gap closer counters it. It would be absolutely fine if it gave a short gap closer immunity. So we still have to streak twice but at least we could get away.
And how is that better with Cloak? And what do classes like Templar or DK that have neither Cloak nor Streak do? They can't get away.
Streak as it is now is still better than no Streak, isn't it?
DK and Templar are not supposed to be mobile to begin withFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info5 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wreuntzylla wrote: »Streak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Let's not go all crazy now. If I cloak 2-4 times, I am gone unless someone used a detect pot, snared me for 50%+, dropped a fast pulsing AoE, or hit me with a cloak breaking DoT or an effect that prevents cloaking.
Vampire + concealed weapon (yes, the magicka version). I walk/run faster cloaked than I do uncloaked. There are plenty of good spammables to replace suprise attack with, my personal favorite is shrouded daggers. Way underused, snare up to 3 enemy.
I personally have more success using streak than cloak, but it's more a function of being a stam NB and needing the magicka for more things than a sorc needs stam. In both cases, there are various tricks to getting away but my success rate is highest going through my opponent. That's obvious for streak, and it takes an extra step with cloak (they need to see you running away from them before you switch directions and go through them), but both have a generally high success rate that drops to near zero when facing players that know what to do.
When the hell are you not snared in Cyrodiil?Flawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info4 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »King_Thelon wrote: »
@NyassaVStreak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Streaking 4 times not only bleeds every MagSorc in the game dry, but every player with access to a snare, root and / or gap closer says lol. Please friend go play MagSorc solo for 100 hours and try for yourself.
Streak is fine the way it is. It was absolutely overpowered without the increasing cost.
Hope you don't mind that I cut your text a bit short. But streak is not fine. Every single gap closer counters it. It would be absolutely fine if it gave a short gap closer immunity. So we still have to streak twice but at least we could get away.
And how is that better with Cloak? And what do classes like Templar or DK that have neither Cloak nor Streak do? They can't get away.
Streak as it is now is still better than no Streak, isn't it?
DK and Templar are not supposed to be mobile to begin with
That doesn't make it better in any way. And why aren't they supposed to be mobile? Who said that? Why are MagBlades and MagSorcs supposed to be mobile?PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3 -
Derra✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Judas Helviaryn wrote: »King_Thelon wrote: »@ZOS_Wrobel
10 updates ago, you nerfed streak to the ground, making sorcerer the only class in the history of the game that is punished with a stacking cost to an ability:ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »Bolt Escape: This ability no longer reduces out-of-combat Magicka recovery after casting. We have also increased the cost for Bolt Escape by 50%, which stacks with each cast within four seconds.
Sorcerer's escaping or resetting fights at will is OP. Nightblade's escaping or resetting fights at will is fine.
You don't need to nerf cloak; it's a fun and useful escape tool. But you do need to return that same fun and useful escape tool to the sorcerer's kit.
A properly built sorcerer has no issue escaping the average player in Cyrodiil, and a properly built Nightblade has no issue with the same.
I'm for leaving the classes alone, and letting the people who whine figure it out the hard way.
A properly built NB will escape any player except for another NB that has slotted mark + dedicated to chase them down.
Any decent player with a gapcloser/mediumarmor build can chase down a sorc.
The average player should never be a point of reference when discussing things like this.Edited by Derra on March 23, 2018 7:03AM<Noricum>
I live. I die. I live again.
Derra - DC - Sorc - AvA 50
Derrah - EP - Sorc - AvA 506 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭At this point I’d be happy if Streak didn’t come with its own root (can only streak into the direction you’re facing and you lose momentum) attached and the range was nearer to gap closer range. Although the argument can be made that after Morrowind sustain changes the penalty should be looked at, I don’t think that will get changed.
My prediction is that neither Sorc will see buffs/good changes nor NB meaningful nerfs. In both cases the forum would explode.
What most people forget is that there is noCP also. CP can cover for a lot of class misgivings. In noCP the issues stand out much clearer. There is a reason the standard Sorc template is Shackle/Lich as no one can really sustain a more damage oriented build.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.3 -
Dredlord✭✭✭✭✭Drachenfier wrote: »Cloak is broken. It needs to be changed, and I've recently changed mains from DK to NB.
So have I and a lot of the pvp player base.
It’s actually pretty *** sad...
ZOS should be ashamed to let it get this bad0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thunderknuckles wrote: »kypranb14_ESO wrote: »There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.
Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.
Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.
Streak also causes damage, too. And stuns. I'll admit it. In the IC sewers the other day a sorc and I came across each other unexpectedly and he reacted very quickly. Well, just enough faster than me to hit Streak. He didn't run off. He instantly streaked back and forth about 4 times and the shock damage plus whatever else he was firing off just blew me up. "Why ain'tchoo juss break free, d00D!?" In case you forgot, it also stuns. I was basically stun locked till dead. LOL
I wouldn't say that Streak has been gimped too much. Cloak certainly doesn't stun AND damage nearby enemies.
Edited for typo.
In case you forgot, there is something like CC immunity.1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Thunderknuckles wrote: »kypranb14_ESO wrote: »There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.
Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.
Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.
Streak also causes damage, too. And stuns. I'll admit it. In the IC sewers the other day a sorc and I came across each other unexpectedly and he reacted very quickly. Well, just enough faster than me to hit Streak. He didn't run off. He instantly streaked back and forth about 4 times and the shock damage plus whatever else he was firing off just blew me up. "Why ain'tchoo juss break free, d00D!?" In case you forgot, it also stuns. I was basically stun locked till dead. LOL
I wouldn't say that Streak has been gimped too much. Cloak certainly doesn't stun AND damage nearby enemies.
Edited for typo.
In case you forgot, there is something like CC immunity.
Not when you never break free.
Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Seraphayel wrote: »Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Seraphayel wrote: »King_Thelon wrote: »
@NyassaVStreak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Streaking 4 times not only bleeds every MagSorc in the game dry, but every player with access to a snare, root and / or gap closer says lol. Please friend go play MagSorc solo for 100 hours and try for yourself.
Streak is fine the way it is. It was absolutely overpowered without the increasing cost.
Hope you don't mind that I cut your text a bit short. But streak is not fine. Every single gap closer counters it. It would be absolutely fine if it gave a short gap closer immunity. So we still have to streak twice but at least we could get away.
And how is that better with Cloak? And what do classes like Templar or DK that have neither Cloak nor Streak do? They can't get away.
Streak as it is now is still better than no Streak, isn't it?
Are we arguing about DKs and Temps or are we arguing about cloak and streak? Classes are designed differently. I think you have noticed that NB and Sorcs are designed for mobile playstyles while DK and Temps are not.
Even the GDB is better than no insta heal, isn't it? See, that's not a good argument. If a tool is there to create a gap then it should be able to do exactly that. If a tool is designed to do X in general than you should be able to achieve X with it.
Honestly, I'm fine with cloak as it is. Are the crit heals a bug? Maybe, maybe not but the tooltip doesn't mention heals. Someone either have to sacrifice a skill slot or pot or he has to get lucky to drop that aoe at your current location.
A gap closer however is no specific sacrifice to counter streak, it's a very useful skill on most builds. And it isn't even on you to mislead your opponent's gap closer like it is with AoEs and cloak. To counter streak your only effort is to push the GC button and the target lock does the rest. Very skillfull indeed.Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »Thunderknuckles wrote: »kypranb14_ESO wrote: »There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.
Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.
Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.
Streak also causes damage, too. And stuns. I'll admit it. In the IC sewers the other day a sorc and I came across each other unexpectedly and he reacted very quickly. Well, just enough faster than me to hit Streak. He didn't run off. He instantly streaked back and forth about 4 times and the shock damage plus whatever else he was firing off just blew me up. "Why ain'tchoo juss break free, d00D!?" In case you forgot, it also stuns. I was basically stun locked till dead. LOL
I wouldn't say that Streak has been gimped too much. Cloak certainly doesn't stun AND damage nearby enemies.
Edited for typo.
In case you forgot, there is something like CC immunity.
Not when you never break free.
Indeed^^ But if he dies to 4 streaks + whatever he light attacked in between no immunity would have saved himEdited by Chilly-McFreeze on March 23, 2018 9:06AM0
