Incoherent Balance and Unbridled Bias - Cloak is Fine, Streak is Nerfed
King_Thelon
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@ZOS_Wrobel
10 updates ago, you nerfed streak to the ground, making sorcerer the only class in the history of the game that is punished with a stacking cost to an ability:
Sorcerer's escaping or resetting fights at will is OP. Nightblade's escaping or resetting fights at will is fine.
You don't need to nerf cloak; it's a fun and useful escape tool. But you do need to return that same fun and useful escape tool to the sorcerer's kit.
10 updates ago, you nerfed streak to the ground, making sorcerer the only class in the history of the game that is punished with a stacking cost to an ability:
ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »Bolt Escape: This ability no longer reduces out-of-combat Magicka recovery after casting. We have also increased the cost for Bolt Escape by 50%, which stacks with each cast within four seconds.
Sorcerer's escaping or resetting fights at will is OP. Nightblade's escaping or resetting fights at will is fine.
You don't need to nerf cloak; it's a fun and useful escape tool. But you do need to return that same fun and useful escape tool to the sorcerer's kit.
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kypranb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.
Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.
Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.
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Judas Helviaryn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »@ZOS_Wrobel
10 updates ago, you nerfed streak to the ground, making sorcerer the only class in the history of the game that is punished with a stacking cost to an ability:ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »Bolt Escape: This ability no longer reduces out-of-combat Magicka recovery after casting. We have also increased the cost for Bolt Escape by 50%, which stacks with each cast within four seconds.
Sorcerer's escaping or resetting fights at will is OP. Nightblade's escaping or resetting fights at will is fine.
You don't need to nerf cloak; it's a fun and useful escape tool. But you do need to return that same fun and useful escape tool to the sorcerer's kit.
A properly built sorcerer has no issue escaping the average player in Cyrodiil, and a properly built Nightblade has no issue with the same.
I'm for leaving the classes alone, and letting the people who whine figure it out the hard way.15 -
Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cloak doesn't equal streak, it equals shields. So for everyone looking to nerf cloak I say do it! Just as long as shields gets the same treatment. Increase cost with each use, reduce shield uptime to 2.9 seconds, have shields break if anything sneezes their way, etc etc...There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway10 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Cloak doesn't equal streak, it equals shields. So for everyone looking to nerf cloak I say do it! Just as long as shields gets the same treatment. Increase cost with each use, reduce shield uptime to 2.9 seconds, have shields break if anything sneezes their way, etc etc...
You should really try noCP where shields are gone with 2 light attacks.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.15 -
Drachenfier✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cloak is broken. It needs to be changed, and I've recently changed mains from DK to NB.5 -
King_Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
@kypranb14_ESOkypranb14_ESO wrote: »There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.
Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.
Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.
You should try using streak to escape while snared, immobilized or rooted. Let me know how that works out for you.17 -
rophez_ESO✭✭✭✭✭Yeah, what they've done to Sorcs and, worse, what they've done to DKs since ESO 1.0 is a crime.Edited by rophez_ESO on March 22, 2018 6:54PM4
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Sevn✭✭✭✭✭
✭Cloak doesn't equal streak, it equals shields. So for everyone looking to nerf cloak I say do it! Just as long as shields gets the same treatment. Increase cost with each use, reduce shield uptime to 2.9 seconds, have shields break if anything sneezes their way, etc etc...
You should really try noCP where shields are gone with 2 light attacks.
Nah, I don't even use cloak in PvP or shields for that matter. I usually die. Maybe I should start lol? I only use cloak in pve, a lot at that.There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man, true nobility is being superior to your former self
-Hemingway2 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
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Streak fails to work through most doorways, inclines, etc, and still adds the cost increase when it fails. You can be rooted (constantly happens) which messes with Streak. Also with how nerfed sustain is, streaking more than 1-2 times drains yours Magicka tremendously. Casting Streak, whether for combat or escape, is only ideal when battling on a flat surfaces. Take the fight to a staircase or hill, and this skill essentially loses its ability to function.kypranb14_ESO wrote: »There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.
Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.
Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.
Likewise they “nerfed” the effectiveness of Streak when they bugged out the skill and caused you to retain zero momentum after a Streak. If you Streak and fall even from the slightest height (<1m) you fall straight down rather than maintaining your movement speed forward. It’s all very nice for those trying to zerg you down I will say. If the stacking cost is going to be kept, a 50% stacking increase is too much since Morrowind launched. Likewise, if NB gets a stacking cost it shouldn’t be an enormous 50% increase.13 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Cloak doesn't equal streak, it equals shields. So for everyone looking to nerf cloak I say do it! Just as long as shields gets the same treatment. Increase cost with each use, reduce shield uptime to 2.9 seconds, have shields break if anything sneezes their way, etc etc...
show me a shield that goes down after you drink a pot
Trying to look for paralels between class skills is not a good way to address the entire situationSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Oh man, Sorcs bragging about Nightblades. As a DK or Templar I'd wish to have the nerfed Streak because it is still better than everything my class has.
Sorcerers and Nightblades are the two classes that really should not complain about anything in that regard.PS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -14 -
King_Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
@SeraphayelSeraphayel wrote: »Oh man, Sorcs bragging about Nightblades. As a DK or Templar I'd wish to have the nerfed Streak because it is still better than everything my class has.
Sorcerers and Nightblades are the two classes that really should not complain about anything in that regard.
Friend please go play 100 hours solo on a MagSorc. You will quickly learn that EVERY STAMINA CLASS has better mobility. Forward momentum + sprint outshines MagSorc's class-defining "escape" mechanism by miles.15 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »
@SeraphayelSeraphayel wrote: »Oh man, Sorcs bragging about Nightblades. As a DK or Templar I'd wish to have the nerfed Streak because it is still better than everything my class has.
Sorcerers and Nightblades are the two classes that really should not complain about anything in that regard.
Friend please go play 100 hours solo on a MagSorc. You will quickly learn that EVERY STAMINA CLASS has better mobility. Forward momentum + sprint outshines MagSorc's class-defining "escape" mechanism by miles.
Okay? MagSorc still has the 2nd best tool for escaping right after Cloak (if Cloak would work properly Streak would still be the go to). Again, MagDK and MagPlar have nothing in comparison.
And there is no "stamina class". What's with Stamina Sorcs then? Even stronger with Streak + all the other options. Out of all MagDPS Sorcerers still outshine most other Magspecs. So forgive me when I (as a MagDK or MagPlar) laugh about Sorcerers complaining about their poor escape skills.
I agree, Cloak is too strong. Give it increased cost as well. But really, Sorcs complaining here?Edited by Seraphayel on March 22, 2018 7:16PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -5 -
Wreuntzylla✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Sorcs are still the most difficult to engage. The only changes the streak nerf brought on was make it harder to reset losing fights and you can no longer string a zerg out over 10miles and kill them one by one (at lest not as reliably). Although, I don't really see a problem with punishing over focused players...
Cloak, on the other hand, has been nerfed in every single patch without patch notes pointing to the changes as nerfs. It was originally a thing that no DoT would unstealth an NB. If I remember correctly, they tried to fix it to be that way 4-5 times before a fix actually worked. Now, every class has at least one DoT effect that pulls NBs out of cloak. I use fletcherfly solely because it decloaks NBs every tick...
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Zorgon_The_Revenged✭✭✭✭✭Lol, streak-streak-streak-Undo and streak the other way "see ya' noobs". How to sell a Summerset chapter in one easy skill.5
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Chilly-McFreeze✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭If you can't catch someone streaking away in cyro with all the snares and gap closers, the issue might be on you. Sure, if he starts streaking from 28m away you won't catch them. But once they are in melee range, they won't get out of it against any competent player with a gap closer.6 -
King_Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
@SeraphayelSeraphayel wrote: »Okay? MagSorc still has the 2nd best tool for escaping right after Cloak (if Cloak would work properly Streak would still be the go to). Again, MagDK and MagPlar have nothing in comparison.
And there is no "stamina class". What's with Stamina Sorcs then? Even stronger with Streak + all the other options. Out of all MagDPS Sorcerers still outshine most other Magspecs. So forgive me when I (as a MagDK or MagPlar) laugh about Sorcerers complaining about their poor escape skills.
1) Again, please gain perspective by playing the class. Alternatively, you may contine with the mental gymnastics - any tips for torn quad?Seraphayel wrote: »
I agree, Cloak is too strong.
2) Not what I said.Seraphayel wrote: »
Give it increased cost as well.
3) Not what I suggested.Seraphayel wrote: »
But really, Sorcs complaining here?
Please refer to the need for perspective referred to in #1.
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Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭kypranb14_ESO wrote: »There is a huge gap between how streak works and how cloak works.
Cloak is almost useless when you have high tier snares on you or are affected by any damage-after-time abilities.
Streak can be used when snared, immobilized, affected by any effect other than stuns really.
Please make streak not work when immobilized. Just like gap closers and other movement skills don't work while immobilized. If that is your argument. I accept. But then remove ALL the other nerfs to streak over the years including:- Losing momentum at the end of a streak instead of having a more natural curve to the ground
- Range reduction
- Reducing the effect of the ball of lightning absorption effects.
- Global skill cooldown at the end of streak.
- The first staking cost nerf
- The second stacking cost nerf.
- Aoe damage nerf
- I'm sure im forgetting one.
Give all of that back. But make sorcerers dodge roll if they are immobilized. Done deal. Streak has been nibbled to death with nerf after nerf when the right thing to do from the start would have been to make immobilization be a counter to streak. That way sorcerers would have to use stam to dodge roll, before streaking if immobilized. But can streak as much as they want without penalty afterwards. Perfect. Done.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on March 22, 2018 7:41PM8 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭GoodFella146 wrote: »Adding the Streak penalty to cloak seems pretty reasonable to me
Or how bout we keep cooldowns out of this game so it doesn't turn into guild wars.17 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Thread title is solid.
I've never been a fan of the stacking cost increase of any kind (which right now is just dodgeroll and streak). IMO, it goes against the core original design of the game, in which you manage resources rather than cooldowns. Now streak and dodgeroll have "soft timers" where you have a short delay after 2-3 uses, and it just feels inconsistent.
That being said, I think it's kind of necessary given the sustain power creep. Without the increasing cost, it would be pretty easy to make an infinite roll build or infinite streak build, and those aren't really healthy things to have around, imo.
If they doubled-down on bringing sustain back to low levels, I'd hope they would reassess the stacking cost on streak and roll.Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub3 -
GoodFella146✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »GoodFella146 wrote: »Adding the Streak penalty to cloak seems pretty reasonable to me
Or how bout we keep cooldowns out of this game so it doesn't turn into guild wars.
Ok remove the Streak penalty then. Or even better give vampires a cloak so that every class can cloak
Edited by GoodFella146 on March 22, 2018 7:56PM3 -
Tan9oSuccka✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »
@SeraphayelSeraphayel wrote: »Oh man, Sorcs bragging about Nightblades. As a DK or Templar I'd wish to have the nerfed Streak because it is still better than everything my class has.
Sorcerers and Nightblades are the two classes that really should not complain about anything in that regard.
Friend please go play 100 hours solo on a MagSorc. You will quickly learn that EVERY STAMINA CLASS has better mobility. Forward momentum + sprint outshines MagSorc's class-defining "escape" mechanism by miles.
Do you really think Stamina characters use sprint to escape?0 -
Sugaroverdose✭✭✭✭✭
Actually cloak was nerfed at the same time and was completely useless for 3 month because it lost only one used in pvp morph which gave 4 dots purge, than it was barely useful other 3 month by getting dot suppression because cast time abilities and abilities which have travel time completely ignored it, then it was almost good other 3 month because not all dots was actually suppressed, than it was fixed.King_Thelon wrote: »@ZOS_Wrobel
10 updates ago, you nerfed streak to the ground, making sorcerer the only class in the history of the game that is punished with a stacking cost to an ability:ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »Bolt Escape: This ability no longer reduces out-of-combat Magicka recovery after casting. We have also increased the cost for Bolt Escape by 50%, which stacks with each cast within four seconds.
Sorcerer's escaping or resetting fights at will is OP. Nightblade's escaping or resetting fights at will is fine.
You don't need to nerf cloak; it's a fun and useful escape tool. But you do need to return that same fun and useful escape tool to the sorcerer's kit.
So you whining is actually only because you don't know any class except always favoured sorcEdited by Sugaroverdose on March 22, 2018 8:32PM4 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Streak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 timesEdited by NyassaV on March 22, 2018 8:33PMFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info12 -
King_Thelon✭✭✭✭✭
@NyassaVStreak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Streaking 4 times not only bleeds every MagSorc in the game dry, but every player with access to a snare, root and / or gap closer says lol. Please friend go play MagSorc solo for 100 hours and try for yourself.6 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »
@NyassaVStreak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Streaking 4 times not only bleeds every MagSorc in the game dry, but every player with access to a snare, root and / or gap closer says lol. Please friend go play MagSorc solo for 100 hours and try for yourself.
I actually have tried it. I ran out at 6 streaks, not 4. And even then after 4 you have almost 100% of the time gotten away. Can't say the same about cloak no matter how many times you spam itEdited by NyassaV on March 22, 2018 8:48PMFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info3 -
Seraphayel✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭King_Thelon wrote: »
@NyassaVStreak and Cloak are EXTREMELY different. You can escape pretty much 100% of the time after streaking 4 times. There is no guarantee that you'll escape if you spam cloak 8 times
Streaking 4 times not only bleeds every MagSorc in the game dry, but every player with access to a snare, root and / or gap closer says lol. Please friend go play MagSorc solo for 100 hours and try for yourself.
Again, it has nothing to do with "perspective" as you said several times. Streak is fine the way it is. It was absolutely overpowered without the increasing cost. Cloak is different and too strong at the moment because it is bugged.
Streaking 4 times (or 6 times) and to lose all your Magicka: so what? If you're streaking that often you want to escape and not fight.
Streak is not the problem. The skill is fine the way it is. The problems here are a) classes missing something like Streak/Cloak entirely (-) and b) classes having something similar/better than Streak (+).Edited by Seraphayel on March 22, 2018 9:17PMPS5EUAldmeri Dominion- Khajiit Arcanist -3
