Crouch / Hidden Backstab nerfed ...

Ayurox · March 2014

I really felt dissappointed today when I logged in and realised that the crouch/hidden backstab has been nerfed into the ground.
As a close combat dps nightblade, I really felt this extra dmg could help me out in alot of way's and I find with this change that I lost a big playstyle of my close combat nightblade.
I'm really wondering why they nerfed such a little thing, you barely do 20-30% dmg with the attack now ... it was already hard to get close to someone and do this extra dmg and now its completely lost ...

Opinions ?

MyForumName · March 2014

Isn't this something that get's stronger as your abilities increase?

Byucknah · March 2014

Ayurox wrote: »

I really felt dissappointed today when I logged in and realised that the crouch/hidden backstab has been nerfed into the ground.
As a close combat dps nightblade, I really felt this extra dmg could help me out in alot of way's and I find with this change that I lost a big playstyle of my close combat nightblade.
I'm really wondering why they nerfed such a little thing, you barely do 20-30% dmg with the attack now ... it was already hard to get close to someone and do this extra dmg and now its completely lost ...

Opinions ?

Are you sure it was nerfed and is not bugged? I am literally getting NO sneak attacks with my bow. In beta it would randomly get my sneak attack bonuses only some times but since launch I have not gotten a single successful sneak attack with my bow. No stun, no bonus damage, nothing. I have a feeling this is not actually a nerf and is an unexpected bug. If this really is a nerf, then I am with you on being severely disappointed.

Ayurox · March 2014

Well I have no idea, either is a bug or a nerf but its not working.
To be sure I even remade a new charachter to try this on the starting zone and on beta you could 1 hit monsters with the crouch/hidden backstab, now you barely can scratch em ...

ausmisc · March 2014

If it's a nerf it's pretty detrimental to nightblades and medium armour wearers who have abilities revolving around aiding in sneak attacks. As a melee nightblade it's barely worth the effort now, only positive is a stun in pve.

00Serval · March 2014

There was a bug during most (all?) of the beta where partially charged sneaking heavy attacks did more damage than fully charged ones, so if you're doing that then it would explain some damage loss.

Otherwise, maybe things just have more health now. Although I see countless people say otherwise, I was also under the impression that you need to be behind or beside a target for the sneak attack stun to take effect (I don't know if it does anything for the damage, though.)

ausmisc · March 2014

Yeah you need hit from the rear 180 degrees whilst crouched to successfully sneak attack. And my comparison comes from using teleport strike so shouldn't have been affected by the partial charge glitch.

mutharex · March 2014

I used to one shot mobs from sneak, now it only scratches them. While I dunno if it's a nerf or a bug, it is true that maybe it was slightly overpowered. Anyone on PTS can tell us if this change was already in CB?

hackedwowb16_ESO · March 2014

not tried a sneaky toon yet but in beta i 'had' to be behind and fully hidden to have a good sneak attack bow / sword / 2hander (grin) so could be a nerf or bug .. shame but prolly good for balance issues

dumbo · March 2014

mutharex wrote: »

I used to one shot mobs from sneak, now it only scratches them. While I dunno if it's a nerf or a bug, it is true that maybe it was slightly overpowered. Anyone on PTS can tell us if this change was already in CB?

As someone mentioned above, there was a bug in beta with partially charged hidden strikes, this video (before fix) goes through the mechanics and the bug is apparent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eur7R3791Ww&list=UUpXOOPB9BftCMWHB1Nc5UhA
(his channel has several very interesting videos)

mutharex · March 2014

No, I didn't mean that. I used the DW first ability (the one that morphs into Blood Craze). Not charged attacks

Alphashado · March 2014

This is definitely bugged or nerfed. It has nothing to do with a fix to the partial attack bug unless they broke sneak attack totally in the process of fixing it. As a Templar, I was worried at first that Biting Jabs was nerfed. But the I tried the bow, and as mentioned above, sneak attack for that is also gone. It isn't smaller. It's GONE. I also heard that twin blades doesn't work.

So it seems that the sneak attack for every ability seems to be busted or nerfed into oblivion. If it's a nerf, than what's the point in stealth builds anymore? I hope it's a bug. What I can't understand is why this is getting so little attention.

RustyBlades · March 2014

Well I know I can't sneak attack with staves. Of course, that may be due to the level difference issue. I do agree there is a damage issue, though - a fully charged stave attack on a mob that is aware does X damage while a sneak attack fully charged attack does like 0.1 * X damage.

DenverRalphy · March 2014

Definitely something wrong with sneak attacks, and I'm willing to bet it's a bug and not a nerf. When I stealth attack with a bow, I can be crouched and fully hidden directly behind an oblivious garbage mob, and do no more damage than if I had been standing directly in front of them standing up in full view. I've tried several times with varying degrees of power on the attacks, and never see any sneak attack bonus.

zhevon · March 2014

Same here - both bow and duel wield could see no difference between stealthed and non-stealthed.

Kyosji · March 2014

I get the bonus every so often with my teleport strike. Possibility they but a chance % instead of a 100% chance to crit this damage with a hidden attack?

MeatDumpling · March 2014

Has there been any official acknowledgment of this? If it is going to be addressed I don't mind keeping my stealth build but if this is perm than I see no point in trying to make this type of char work.

Alphashado · March 2014

It's certainly not working. Hopefully it's just a bug. Either way I hope we here something official about it.

mutharex · March 2014

MeatDumpling wrote: »

Has there been any official acknowledgment of this? If it is going to be addressed I don't mind keeping my stealth build but if this is perm than I see no point in trying to make this type of char work.

Has anyone 'bugged' it yet?

moXrox · April 2014

Well, use a dmg meter and make a video.

Ayurox · April 2014

I hope soon an official post is going to clear this up cause its a damn pain in the ass, I used to be a stealth focused nightblade now I feel utterly useless

Mephane · April 2014

To me it feels as if sneak attacks are outright broken. I hardly feel any additional damage; I always open with a fully charged heavy attack, and it doesn't appear any stronger than a heavy attack without stealth/invisibility. The stun is also completely missing, I remember very clearly from the beta that fully charged sneak attacks produced a stun (not sure about partial light sneak attacks).

On a similar note, I have yet to see Teleport Strike stun anything at all, regardless of whether it is used from stealth or not; this might be related.

Ayurox · April 2014

Mephane wrote: »

To me it feels as if sneak attacks are outright broken. I hardly feel any additional damage; I always open with a fully charged heavy attack, and it doesn't appear any stronger than a heavy attack without stealth/invisibility. The stun is also completely missing, I remember very clearly from the beta that fully charged sneak attacks produced a stun (not sure about partial light sneak attacks).

On a similar note, I have yet to see Teleport Strike stun anything at all, regardless of whether it is used from stealth or not; this might be related.

I do agree with the most part completely but with the Teleport Strike for me that works and the mob is stunned for 1.5sec

Yankee · April 2014

I agree the stealth bow attacks seem to be iffy. I do not normally use a melee weapon heavy attack from stealth.

I have found a stealthed Veiled Strike (from behind, of course) to work very well, I usually get at least 50% of the mobs HP bar. There is a huge difference in damage if they see me first.

And since that spell stuns (4 seconds I think), I can finish the mob off before the stun is over.

Mephane · April 2014

Yankee wrote: »

I agree the stealth bow attacks seem to be iffy. I do not normally use a melee weapon heavy attack from stealth.

That's what I was used to do since the beta. Sneak up from behind, fully charged heavy attack with a 2h sword, always stunned mobs that are not immune, plus huge opener damage. Now it feels the same as if opening without stealth.

Darrett · April 2014

I'm still getting pretty consistent sneak attacks with my bow for 25-30%, sometimes a bit more depending on target. Less than what I saw in beta, but that was too much. I don't get a crit using Poison Arrow, so it might be tied to ability use?

kitsinni · April 2014

It is very noticiable since beta. Using dual wield there is an extreme difference. Stealth attacks even from behind barely do more than a normal attack. I'm not talking about a bow that isn't fully charged either. It really hurts nightblades since sneak is the backbone of the entire class. Instant attacks like twin blades or teleport strike did huge damage in beta now it isn't even worth sneaking for them.

Steinbja · April 2014

I have also noticed the lack of sneak attach bonuses form using a bow and melee attacks. I have hit targets from in front and behind and do not see an appreciable difference in the damage caused.

I was looking forward to playing my Nightblade Archer that I played around with in the Open Beta and was really disappointed when I found out how much trouble I was having to kill anything at my level. In the Open Beta a sneak attack shot with a follow up Poison Arrow would leave most common mobs at no more than 1/4 health. Now I am lucky to remove 1/4 health.

For now I re-rolled as a Dragon Knight tank and glad I had saved my ring of mara to bind to my wife's character.

claudekennilol · April 2014

It works just fine for me as long as I stay out of sight. As in I can't be in front of whatever I'm attacking at all.

Hawke · April 2014

What medium armor level are you? Do you have skill passives for more damage coming out of sneak? Or are you noticing this at level 1 out the gate? Is your weapon of an appropriate damage level?

Alphashado · April 2014

I played in 5 betas. I know what mechanics are required for a sneak attack. It has nothing to do wit all of a sudden forgetting how to do it. Something is VERY wrong. Period. I can link you multiple quotes from developers saying that sneak attacks are supposed to be rewarding. One shot kills were part of the original design to reward a successful sneak attack.

That used to be the case. It is clearly bugged, broken, or nerfed with no explanation. And I'm not talking about the fix to partially charged attacks. Although I suspect that is somehow the culprit.