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The Nightblade Nerfs are coming, better let the good ones negotiate the changes
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To the people that say buff other classes. If that was an option, the other classes wouldn't have been nerfed in the first place4 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »To the people that say buff other classes. If that was an option, the other classes wouldn't have been nerfed in the first place
Buffs are not an option because champion point power creep is destroying the game. If NBs get nerfed, it won't be because their class is too strong, it will be because EVERYTHING has been getting a nerf every patch to make up for the terrible power creep.
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DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnaroek93 wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?
In this last patch, basically nightblades became immune to two class specific and one general counter.
* Warden cliff racers are dodgeable. These used to be a nightblade’s bane, now they won’t ever hit you if you’re any good. Never. Hit.
* DK powerlash got a cooldown, and is now dodgeable. A nightblade will almost never get hit by this, the single most damaging regular skill proc that a magDK has, thats also tied to their burst heal. And they absolutely suck against good stamblades with it being dodgeable. Can’t hit you. Can’t heal. **** you ZOS.
* Soul Assault took a huge nerf to the snare, which used to be the whole point in using it. Its easy to escape now without dying.
So now TWO classes are now free AP Piñatas for nightblades that weren’t before. You are GOING to get a lot of these threads, you won’t like it, but neither do they.
Yes, and all of those were good changes because they really were countering medium armor builds too hard. I still see mDKs & Wardens doing well in Cyrodiil, BGs & Duels.
Also, you still get the heal from Power Lash even if it misses btw.
That said, I do agree that dodge roll spam needs to be toned down.
I like how it actually accomplishes something in this patch, but I dislike that people can spam it nonstop without running out of stamina.
So maybe ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier for dodge roll (or increase the duration for the debuff so that people can't use one cloak to just reset the counter & carry on spamming dodge roll until the next Incap).
Also, builds that struggle vs dodge roll tactics should get some undodgeable abilities (on par with Steel Tornado/Brawler which were recently changed to be undodgeable). For instance, bow builds should be able to bypass dodge roll with Acid Spray/Bombard.
To be fair, you underestimate Cloak and overestimate dodgeroll here. I can dodgeroll 9 times in a row (with almost 40k stamina and 2.6k stamregen) while I can Cloak more often in a row (and I can use Cloak offensive as well, I can't do that with dodgeroll). Lastly: how do you want to make other stam classes viable on anything other than a tank build if you nerf dodgeroll while leaving Cloak as it is?
Well, you've dueled my bowblade so you know how it is. I can put Piercing Mark on you & it makes no difference; you're still able to dodge everything I throw at you until I run out of stamina.
So it's not really cloak that is the issue. Coincidentally, cloak is also the only thing that keeps a high dmg build alive since you can't rely on dodge roll to survive.
You can't determine the effectiveness of dodge and cloak when having a build with 0 undodgeable skills, no burst outside of an 1 sec cast time skill with very long travel time while you are completely hardcountering cloak. There is a reason why the only dodge builds you see are nightblades or some brave templar which is much less effective.
Well, it's any build with undodgeable skills that has problems against them, not just bow builds. Why wouldn't they, when your opponent can essentially become immune to your damage for as long as they want?
I've actually tested this, on my bow build I had a rollerblade stand still & just dodge my skills.
Every second I cast Lethal Arrow->Bombard+LA and it wasn't the person dodging every second who ran out of stamina first...
Mind you, that's not even some "100% dmg screw sustain gank gear" as I have 2,5k buffed stam regen & lots of cost reduction passives (I run Marksman & Hawk Eye).
Sure, lots of this would be fixed in the case of bow builds by something simple such as Acid Spray/Bombard being dodgeable (and thus also forcing opponents to use heals atleast), but I still think there's an underlying issue of people being able to spam dodge roll too much.
I remember back in 2015/2016 when it was much more balanced, sustain dodge roll builds were alive & well, but you also weren't completely screwed if you played a high dmg build (landing one combo was enough to finish off any dodge roller).
I just wish the balance would tilt a bit more towards high dmg builds again, as it currently seems pretty much everyone is playing the same meta rollerblade builds & the balance discussions are driven by those builds alone.Edited by DDuke on March 20, 2018 11:47PM1 -
ascan7✭✭✭How can people still cling to this kind of logical thinking?
There is one rotten apple in the basket - the solution? Let's try to make them all equally rotten.
Honestly, i think that Nightblades are the really good apple in the basket and other classes should be more like it.
They have a big variety of builds. Magblade for example can be "classic" mages with Strife, meee fighterss with Concealed weapons or bombers.
They generally work well with a lot of different weapons because they have both good class spammables and good support skills, so they can also use weapon skills efficiently.
I'd like to see other classes being more like NBs. Sure right now some NB's skills are overperforming, especially incap, but i don't think we should scrp the whole class because of that.
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?
In this last patch, basically nightblades became immune to two class specific and one general counter.
* Warden cliff racers are dodgeable. These used to be a nightblade’s bane, now they won’t ever hit you if you’re any good. Never. Hit.
* DK powerlash got a cooldown, and is now dodgeable. A nightblade will almost never get hit by this, the single most damaging regular skill proc that a magDK has, thats also tied to their burst heal. And they absolutely suck against good stamblades with it being dodgeable. Can’t hit you. Can’t heal. **** you ZOS.
* Soul Assault took a huge nerf to the snare, which used to be the whole point in using it. Its easy to escape now without dying.
So now TWO classes are now free AP Piñatas for nightblades that weren’t before. You are GOING to get a lot of these threads, you won’t like it, but neither do they.
Yes, and all of those were good changes because they really were countering medium armor builds too hard. I still see mDKs & Wardens doing well in Cyrodiil, BGs & Duels.
Also, you still get the heal from Power Lash even if it misses btw.
That said, I do agree that dodge roll spam needs to be toned down.
I like how it actually accomplishes something in this patch, but I dislike that people can spam it nonstop without running out of stamina.
So maybe ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier for dodge roll (or increase the duration for the debuff so that people can't use one cloak to just reset the counter & carry on spamming dodge roll until the next Incap).
Also, builds that struggle vs dodge roll tactics should get some undodgeable abilities (on par with Steel Tornado/Brawler which were recently changed to be undodgeable). For instance, bow builds should be able to bypass dodge roll with Acid Spray/Bombard.
Hey there! stamDK player here, Just here to say I don't have 3k stamina regen like some special class in the game and as a result I can't dodge roll 20 times in every 10 seconds.
So maybe you should nerf stamblades instead?
Could you clarify where you feel the Stamina Regen overperformance specific to Stamblades is coming from?
Wearing the same gear sets:
My Vampire Bosmer Stamblade has 3128 Stamina regen; 3478 with a Stamina Potion active -- also gets 31% extra Stam Regen from Bosmer + Vampire
My Imperial StamDK has 2499 Stamina Regen; 2849 with Stamina Potion/Green Dragon Blood active -- no additional passive Stam regen from Race or World
Are you seeing the discrepancy as a product of the Refreshing Shadows passive (15% passive Stamina recovery)
or is your statement more in reference to which stats get stacked?Edited by Samadhi on March 21, 2018 12:30AM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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MakoFore✭✭✭✭✭
✭it needs changing quick, i dont care if they buff t his or nerf that- but as someone who plays all 10 classes- or at least used to, i miss the good ol days of variety- esp in pve. went into a vAS yesterday and EVERY SINGLE DPS was a magblade. at most you ll see 2 sorcs, but this has been the case for a while now- the biggest concern is that zos hasnt acknowledged or even recognized it- and that they ll mess up nb's - which are actually really fun to play- and do a fair a mount of damage to the skill required. my hope is that they ll buff other classes- but make the action to proc that damage require skill and rhythm and technique.
the reason many end games are playing nb is that its doing killer damage- yes- but also because for end gamers- its engaging, challenging and satisfying a "rotation" to learn and master- getting that assasins will proc cleanly is like good golf swing. they should take that lesson and apply it to all the classes imo.0 -
Colecovision✭✭✭✭✭
✭So from this thread I’ve learned that there are nightblades that do a crap ton of damage, aren’t squishy compared to other classes, cloak 10 times in a row and continuously dodge roll.
Awesome guys. Please post the build. I’d like to use it.6 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?
I have a feeling it has a bit to do with Miat's no longer working like it used to.
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!2 -
Ragnarock41✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?
In this last patch, basically nightblades became immune to two class specific and one general counter.
* Warden cliff racers are dodgeable. These used to be a nightblade’s bane, now they won’t ever hit you if you’re any good. Never. Hit.
* DK powerlash got a cooldown, and is now dodgeable. A nightblade will almost never get hit by this, the single most damaging regular skill proc that a magDK has, thats also tied to their burst heal. And they absolutely suck against good stamblades with it being dodgeable. Can’t hit you. Can’t heal. **** you ZOS.
* Soul Assault took a huge nerf to the snare, which used to be the whole point in using it. Its easy to escape now without dying.
So now TWO classes are now free AP Piñatas for nightblades that weren’t before. You are GOING to get a lot of these threads, you won’t like it, but neither do they.
Yes, and all of those were good changes because they really were countering medium armor builds too hard. I still see mDKs & Wardens doing well in Cyrodiil, BGs & Duels.
Also, you still get the heal from Power Lash even if it misses btw.
That said, I do agree that dodge roll spam needs to be toned down.
I like how it actually accomplishes something in this patch, but I dislike that people can spam it nonstop without running out of stamina.
So maybe ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier for dodge roll (or increase the duration for the debuff so that people can't use one cloak to just reset the counter & carry on spamming dodge roll until the next Incap).
Also, builds that struggle vs dodge roll tactics should get some undodgeable abilities (on par with Steel Tornado/Brawler which were recently changed to be undodgeable). For instance, bow builds should be able to bypass dodge roll with Acid Spray/Bombard.
Hey there! stamDK player here, Just here to say I don't have 3k stamina regen like some special class in the game and as a result I can't dodge roll 20 times in every 10 seconds.
So maybe you should nerf stamblades instead?
Could you clarify where you feel the Stamina Regen overperformance specific to Stamblades is coming from?
Wearing the same gear sets:
My Vampire Bosmer Stamblade has 3128 Stamina regen; 3478 with a Stamina Potion active -- also gets 31% extra Stam Regen from Bosmer + Vampire
My Imperial StamDK has 2499 Stamina Regen; 2849 with Stamina Potion/Green Dragon Blood active -- no additional passive Stam regen from Race or World
Are you seeing the discrepancy as a product of the Refreshing Shadows passive (15% passive Stamina recovery)
or is your statement more in reference to which stats get stacked?
Point is that you can't realistically build that sort of high regen build on a non-nightblade class, and cloak allows these types of builds to work without worring about survival. And yes, %15 extra regen matters a lot actually. I'm not saying nerf %15 stam regen passive, I am saying nerf cloak so stamblades can't get away with glass cannon builds.Edited by Ragnarock41 on March 21, 2018 1:14AM0 -
ak_pvp✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭monktoasty wrote: »I'll just quit the game I'm sick of nerfs.
Can I have your stuff. I am poor since I wasted money on making a cave house.Edited by ak_pvp on March 21, 2018 1:40AMMagDK main. PC/EU @AK-ESO
Best houseknight EU.2 -
NyassaV✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭If you're being hit with Assasian's will and incap then it makes sense that will would do more damage sine that is a magicka ability and Stamblades seldom use the stam morph anymore (Which needs to be changed). Incap is a stamina scaling ability so naturally it would hit less.
Ive been hit with a 7.8k incap followed by a 10.3k assassin's will. . . sooooo, ok.
Yeah that's how it should be. Incap will always hit for less on a magicka build. The Incap can boost the damage of the assassin's will by 20% and you have to dodge and/or block one or both elements of it. The issue with incap is that as I stated above it is a knock down effect not a stun. If it worked like a stun people would actually be able to counter it effectively. It hits oddly hard on magic builds but when using soul harvest my will tends to hit for as much as soul harvest (I don't use incap)
Then immediately go to the next respec shrine and get incap. You'll absolutely feel the power. The damage difference is really really low as the only thing affecting it is your penetration and missing points into hardy ~10% damage difference most times but the stun will win you so many fights, some with bugs some where it works how the tooltip says
I use incap on my stamblade. On magic I prefer the extra damage. I'm already well away of how incap preforms and in many cases, over preforms. Every keeps ignoring the fact that the CC is a large part of the problem, not the damage, and sometimes not even the defile but that can help against trying to kill a templarFlawless Conqueror ~ Grand OverlordShe/Her ~ PC/NA | I record things for fun and for info0 -
thankyourat✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ragnarock41 wrote: »Ragnarock41 wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?
In this last patch, basically nightblades became immune to two class specific and one general counter.
* Warden cliff racers are dodgeable. These used to be a nightblade’s bane, now they won’t ever hit you if you’re any good. Never. Hit.
* DK powerlash got a cooldown, and is now dodgeable. A nightblade will almost never get hit by this, the single most damaging regular skill proc that a magDK has, thats also tied to their burst heal. And they absolutely suck against good stamblades with it being dodgeable. Can’t hit you. Can’t heal. **** you ZOS.
* Soul Assault took a huge nerf to the snare, which used to be the whole point in using it. Its easy to escape now without dying.
So now TWO classes are now free AP Piñatas for nightblades that weren’t before. You are GOING to get a lot of these threads, you won’t like it, but neither do they.
Yes, and all of those were good changes because they really were countering medium armor builds too hard. I still see mDKs & Wardens doing well in Cyrodiil, BGs & Duels.
Also, you still get the heal from Power Lash even if it misses btw.
That said, I do agree that dodge roll spam needs to be toned down.
I like how it actually accomplishes something in this patch, but I dislike that people can spam it nonstop without running out of stamina.
So maybe ZOS should increase the stacking cost modifier for dodge roll (or increase the duration for the debuff so that people can't use one cloak to just reset the counter & carry on spamming dodge roll until the next Incap).
Also, builds that struggle vs dodge roll tactics should get some undodgeable abilities (on par with Steel Tornado/Brawler which were recently changed to be undodgeable). For instance, bow builds should be able to bypass dodge roll with Acid Spray/Bombard.
Hey there! stamDK player here, Just here to say I don't have 3k stamina regen like some special class in the game and as a result I can't dodge roll 20 times in every 10 seconds.
So maybe you should nerf stamblades instead?
Could you clarify where you feel the Stamina Regen overperformance specific to Stamblades is coming from?
Wearing the same gear sets:
My Vampire Bosmer Stamblade has 3128 Stamina regen; 3478 with a Stamina Potion active -- also gets 31% extra Stam Regen from Bosmer + Vampire
My Imperial StamDK has 2499 Stamina Regen; 2849 with Stamina Potion/Green Dragon Blood active -- no additional passive Stam regen from Race or World
Are you seeing the discrepancy as a product of the Refreshing Shadows passive (15% passive Stamina recovery)
or is your statement more in reference to which stats get stacked?
Point is that you can't realistically build that sort of high regen build on a non-nightblade class, and cloak allows these types of builds to work without worring about survival. And yes, %15 extra regen matters a lot actually. I'm not saying nerf %15 stam regen passive, I am saying nerf cloak so stamblades can't get away with glass cannon builds.
It's hard to play a nightblade with low regen though because avoiding damage is more costly than tanking damage. Mag sorcs also generally play high resource glass cannon type builds. I'm not understanding what makes them better than say a warden running a high resistance high damage build. Also these glass cannon nightblade builds are alot easier to beat 1v1 than a dk or warden with max resistances and crazy high weapon damage.2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »oXI_Viper_IXo wrote: »Tan9oSuccka wrote: »What’s the deal with the recent spike in NB hate/salt?
I have a feeling it has a bit to do with Miat's no longer working like it used to.
DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!
Thing is, many players in this thread, like myself, are on console2 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don’t really think NB is op. I started playing magblade a few months ago and never felt op against anything. High damage but if I miss a cloak or shade I’m dead. Maybe if I ran shields it would be different. I also don’t use incap so maybe there is something too.PvP needs more love.0 -
Drdeath20✭✭✭✭✭
✭I don’t really think NB is op. I started playing magblade a few months ago and never felt op against anything. High damage but if I miss a cloak or shade I’m dead. Maybe if I ran shields it would be different. I also don’t use incap so maybe there is something too.
Do you play or have alot of knowledge about other classes?0 -
Bbsample197✭✭✭✭i dont have a proper nightblade and the only class im a good at are templars and sorc so i dont know any class outside of those two
BUT!!! if you can post an actual data and not just speculations or based on your lowly experience then ill acknowledge youre nerf post on NB!!
PS: Post your parses on NB then will talk im tired of seeing threads that contains too much information without any legal sources and referencesGrumpyDuckling wrote: »
i also have the same question, if your not going to post any information backing up your post then your just fishing for attention
Edited by Bbsample197 on March 21, 2018 5:18AM3 -
Kalante✭✭✭✭✭
✭and how many of those nightblades were actually melee nightblades and not lethal arrow/cloak spammers?
If anything they should get a buff since they are only good at bursting single targets. There are tanks out there who burst medium armor. That should not even happen.
Bad players never appreciate or know how hard it is to play stamblade properly. They get bursted and think that's how a stamblade always works while in reality you end up dying 99% of the time. I know because am a stamblade. You can't burst everyone you see, if that was the case i would not even be here wasting my time and actually be having fun killing everyone according to all these stam nb haters.
If you got bursted here the only two reasons, you were not paying attention and i understand it happens to the best us and the other one is you just need to l2p if you get bursted during a fight.Edited by Kalante on March 21, 2018 5:22AM4 -
Casul✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I don’t really think NB is op. I started playing magblade a few months ago and never felt op against anything. High damage but if I miss a cloak or shade I’m dead. Maybe if I ran shields it would be different. I also don’t use incap so maybe there is something too.
Do you play or have alot of knowledge about other classes?
Yeah have magsorc, magdk, magplar, and stamward all geared and ready. Especially the warden. Made it when Morrowind released and has roughly 50 days server time maybe more haven’t checked in a while since I made the magblade. Never felt like any of them really stuck out. They had benefits and cons for each. Depending on the play style I choose.PvP needs more love.0 -
Kram8ion✭✭✭✭✭
✭Pardon the pun but as a stamblade recently changed back from magblade,they’re a shadow of their former selfAussie lag is real!1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭@BohnT
I’m not so sure Nightblade nerfs are coming. I don’t see them being in the cards. Maybe as a 5th card from Pacrooti, but you know how likely these are.Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.0 -
jssriot✭✭✭✭✭
✭GrumpyDuckling wrote: »
Out of his ass, I think. Utter nonsense. Nbs have two major things going against them that limit their appeal:
1) they are the hardest class to learn to play, especially in pvp
2) they are best in very specific roles and this can make them rather unappealing to play in pvp for many people who might want something more flexible or all-purpose
IME, a lot of players who go into cyro on a NB end up either sticking to pve or stitching to different class. I'm a relatively experienced NB player in pve and *** if I like playing them in pvp. What a pain. You spend most of your time just trying not to get killed before you can do what you're good at. And then it's all about getting the timing right or you end up looking like a joke by barely doing any damage.
I said this in another thread, but on my Templar I hardly see 95% of NBs in cyro as a real threat. DKs and other Templars are far more a threat, followed by Sorc and then Wardens.
Edited by jssriot on March 21, 2018 8:22AMPC-NA since 2015. Tired and unimpressed.2 -
Thogard✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m surprised how nobody has mentioned that NB benefits the most from laggy servers due to its ability to have “first strike”
And the servers have been a bit laggy lately.PC NA - @dazkt - Dazk Ardoonkt / Sir Thogalot / Dask Dragoh’t / Dazk Dragoh’t / El Thogardo
Stream: twitch.tv/THOGARDvsThePeasants
YouTube: http://youtube.com/c/thogardpvp1 -
Feanor✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I’m surprised how nobody has mentioned that NB benefits the most from laggy servers due to its ability to have “first strike”
And the servers have been a bit laggy lately.
You didn’t get the memo my friend. It’s another deserved benefit for being “squishy”
. Main characters: Feanor the Believer - AD Altmer mSorc - AR 50 - Flawless Conqueror (PC EU)Idril Arnanor - AD Altmer mSorc - CP 217 - Stormproof (PC NA)Other characters:Necrophilius Killgood - DC Imperial NecromancerFearscales - AD Argonian Templar - Stormproof (healer)Draco Imperialis - AD Imperial DK (tank)Cabed Naearamarth - AD Dunmer mDKValirion Willowthorne - AD Bosmer stamBladeTuruna - AD Altmer magBladeKheled Zaram - AD Redguard stamDKKibil Nala - AD Redguard stamSorc - StormproofYavanna Kémentárí - AD Breton magWardenAzog gro-Ghâsh - EP Orc stamWardenVidar Drakenblød - DC Nord mDKMarquis de Peyrac - DC Breton mSorc - StormproofRawlith Khaj'ra - AD Khajiit stamWardenTu'waccah - AD Redguard StamplarAll chars 50 @ CP 1900+. Playing and enjoying PvP with RdK mostly on PC EU.2
