Why are people so against crown crates exactly? (I now know why)

Logey7 · March 2018

I'm not really getting why people are against them. They don't offer any advantages over other players, they don't change the game in anyways besides some cosmetics, it doesn't take away from the game, and they are entirely optional. People are acting like they are being forced to buy them or they are missing out if they don't get them. Sure they may lose out on some cool skin or a fancy new horse, but they aren't losing anything. Plus the people who basically live on the game get the added benefit of getting a cooler horse or a new pet, and also then you can support the game if you would like. It's not putting you at a disadvantage if you don't buy them people, so whats the problem?

I was definitely wrong about this. Thank you for all of you who helped me realize

vyndral13preub18_ESO · March 2018

Logey7 wrote: »

I'm not really getting why people are against them. They don't offer any advantages over other players, they don't change the game in anyways besides some cosmetics, it doesn't take away from the game, and they are entirely optional. People are acting like they are being forced to buy them or they are missing out if they don't get them. Sure they may lose out on some cool skin or a fancy new horse, but they aren't losing anything. Plus the people who basically live on the game get the added benefit of getting a cooler horse or a new pet, and also then you can support the game if you would like. It's not putting you at a disadvantage if you don't buy them people, so whats the problem?

For me, it is because they hide a part of the game I enjoy behind gamble mechanics, just to try to screw me out of a couple more bucks. And then on top of that I have to come to the forum and read statements from people that things I enjoy don’t matter and I should be happy to pay extra for them because it supports the game.

All the pvpers and top end gear grinders would get their panties in a bunch if they started putting top tier equipment in the gamble crates. And the gamble crates were the only way to get them. I wouldn’t care because I don’t pvp all that much anymore, or do the top end trial thing. But I wouldn’t come to the forum and tell those pvpers/raidersto suck it up and what they enjoy isn’t important. So just suck it up and buy them to support the game or don’t.

Recremen · March 2018

Gambling boxes circumvent gambling laws while retaining all the salient qualities which made gambling regulated in the first place, they destroy the consumer-producer power dynamic, obfuscate real price signalling, and rob clients of agency in what had previously been a pretty standard business transaction of choosing what you wanted to buy and buying it.

NewBlacksmurf · March 2018

Why because the intent of them is to increase the frequency of purchasing ingame digital currency in order to gamble it away.

If it were that items could be purchased directly or gambled for that’s different. They are focusing every year on adding more ways to take more of the customers money without adding much gameplay under the dlc or optional subscription model they sold many on.

Aliyavana · March 2018

because buying a chance to get something sucks, and buying something directly and you know you will get the product is a good deal

Morgul667 · March 2018

Because they seem to focus a strong part of development and they introduce gamble and crazy prices.

Im fine with paying, im not fine for gambling or crazy prices

Logey7 · March 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

because buying a chance to get something sucks, and buying something directly and you know you will get the product is a good deal

True, I won't argue with that XD

Mattock_Romulus · March 2018

Because mounts similar to the Dro'Mathra Senche, Frostmare Steed etc., are now labeled radient mounts and are stuck behind a gambling wall with no way to purchase them directly.

Ratzkifal · March 2018

I feel like a lot of stuff moved from being a permanent addition to the crown store to being a time exclusive offer that might later reappear in crown crates. That's a shame because I don't want to be pressured to buy or ripped off through the laws of mathematics. Just remember that the average Apex item costs about 200$ or so. That's a lot of DLCs and chapters right there.
I hate seeing perfectly good and epic looking mounts locked behind gambling in overpriced crates when I would have bought them in the store for a reasonable price.
At least the gems from the free crates are slowly building up.

Logey7 · March 2018

Ratzkifal wrote: »

I feel like a lot of stuff moved from being a permanent addition to the crown store to being a time exclusive offer that might later reappear in crown crates. That's a shame because I don't want to be pressured to buy or ripped off through the laws of mathematics. Just remember that the average Apex item costs about 200$ or so. That's a lot of DLCs and chapters right there.
I hate seeing perfectly good and epic looking mounts locked behind gambling in overpriced crates when I would have bought them in the store for a reasonable price.
At least the gems from the free crates are slowly building up.

That is actually a good point, but they are still purely cosmetic and I'm not really seeing why people feel the need to get them anyways. I'm quite new to ESO though so I don't know much about it, but if the stuff in crown crates were available before, then I say that's definitely a really bad decision to take it out. Though if they got created purely for crown crates, I'm not seeing much harm

vyndral13preub18_ESO · March 2018

In my on going quest to model my life after Jim, I bring you...

https://youtu.be/Ce5CDrq4dGg

xenowarrior92eb17_ESO · March 2018

@Logey7 cuz right now Zo$ its neglecting even their own damn Crown Store in favor of Crown Crates and also right now Crown Crates have a built in lottery...like the Rng of the Rng to get the "hidden" mounts..im not sure people comprehend it main issue here but b4 with just crown store for a mount that good(like Dromathra senche was) you would pay a max of 5k crowns...now people don't understand they are paying way more than 5k crowns to get their wanted mounts and most don't even...instead they get stuck with countless gems that will never find actual use...I only got free crates and never bought one nor I will ever for the simple fact that this is exactly that DICE+EA did with their games...and look how good they got...ESO wont be able to take that kind of thing anymore and soon Zo$ will have to draw the line or a big shockweave will make their fairy town fall from the skies soon...everyone can feel it already...even them...and seriously ZoS bring if you need money that badly bring back the subscription requirement...I for one would gladly pay 30$ per month if you would start working on fixing the damn connection issues and bugs...also any plan on addressing Maw of Lorkhaj constant degrading state and bugs? we are crying since launch...we understand a DLC like that doesn't bring money anymore and its on the bottom of the list...but unlike others there are still those little few who enjoy a true challenge that's well done and not rng based(yes Asylum its a joke for PvE end-game and trial content...4 mechanics on a 15-20 minutes fight on hardmode with a lot of 1 shot hits its not a tactic) and has anyone of you even thinking about the current state of the game PvP? cuz right now its getting worse...whats even more worse its that the badness of things started to creep into PvE area which was somewhat "stable" (cuz playing with 20 fps in combat on a trial boss while having a powerplant rig its ok.)...and so much many other things I wont even bother to start writing the list again...seriously after 4 years...I can say that I am tired..i feel that my monitor is listening to me more out of pity...

Maryal · March 2018

Because everyone in the game can participate in crown crates without having to buy them (see spoiler), and because the crates only contain cosmetic items (and consumables that have no real effect on the game) I am fine with them.

For the past several crown crate seasons, ZOS has run an event where everyone in the game can earn up to 3 free crown crates at the beginning of each season ... no one has to spend dime (or crown).

Many of us are ESO subscribers and get 'free' crowns each month, which means you can save those crowns and later exchange them for more crown crates (if you so choose).

If you are not an ESO subscriber, but plan to spend money for crown crates, I would suggest becoming an ESO subscriber instead. If you opt for the 6-month payment plan (pay 6 months in advance), you will receive your 6 months worth of 'free subscriber crowns' in one lump sum right away! (I assume the same is true for the 3 month and yearly payment options).

You can also earn free crown crates with the leveling up system, but I think you can only get that benefit once per account.

If people want to spend money on crowns for crown crates, it's none of my business and I do not wish to force my values on them - it's their money they can spend it how they see fit.

As a gamer, so long as ZOS continues with the crown crate events each season so everyone can participate for free, I don't see a problem with them also offering the crates for sale in the crown store.

Some people have voiced very strong opinions against crown crates ... but I don't think they realize how watered down and hypocritical their argument looks when they also admit to opening free crown crates. Also, trying to support such an argument with a "the sky is falling" justification is a bit see-through and can hardly be taken seriously. Just saying.

Bhaal5 · March 2018

Maybe be there view on gambling, or just against been ripped off by corporate greed?

Logey7 · March 2018

@vyndral13preub18_ESO
That video had awesome points, and tbh I don't like them either, never really have liked loot crates, but I've come to accept them because it's unlikely it will change. I find now that acceptance is exactly why it won't change and I see why I was wrong. Thank you

woufff · March 2018

The problem for me with all these kind of crates, boxes etc. in online games is that there is no official information about the chances to win the big price. In any official lottery there is a legal obligation to publish theses chances to win, in crown crates there is not (yet!) such information (as far as I know) published officially.

I'm fine to risk my money when I know my chances

witchdoctor · March 2018

woufff wrote: »

The problem for me with all these kind of crates, boxes etc. in online games is that there is no official information about the chances to win the big price. In any official lottery there is a legal obligation to publish theses chances to win, in crown crates there is not (yet!) such information (as far as I know) published officially.

I'm fine to risk my money when I know my chances

And therein lies the rub: you don't have to take any chances. There is absolutely nothing in the Crown Crates that is needed to play, or 'win,' ESO. Nothing.

Recremen · March 2018

witchdoctor wrote: »

woufff wrote: »

The problem for me with all these kind of crates, boxes etc. in online games is that there is no official information about the chances to win the big price. In any official lottery there is a legal obligation to publish theses chances to win, in crown crates there is not (yet!) such information (as far as I know) published officially.

I'm fine to risk my money when I know my chances

And therein lies the rub: you don't have to take any chances. There is absolutely nothing in the Crown Crates that is needed to play, or 'win,' ESO. Nothing.

You also don't have to play end-game content to consider yourself as having "won" the game. Maybe player goals in an MMO are individualized and skating by on "but it's not P2W!" is an outdated excuse for adding gambling into an otherwise upstanding game.

Juhasow · March 2018

aliyavana wrote: »

because buying a chance to get something sucks, and buying something directly and you know you will get the product is a good deal

Ok so let's say I am buying 100 lottery tickets where the main price is (just as an example) dinner with a fauvorite actor in any restaurant I want , a thing I cannot buy anywhere I can only win this. I am not winning main price I am only winning few other things I could buy normally nothing super though. What is difference between that and crown crates ? Why QQing about not winning grand price in lottery would be considered stupid yet people think QQing about crown crates is ok ?

Lord-Otto · March 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

because buying a chance to get something sucks, and buying something directly and you know you will get the product is a good deal

Ok so let's say I am buying 100 lottery tickets where the main price is (just as an example) dinner with a fauvorite actor in any restaurant I want , a thing I cannot buy anywhere I can only win this. I am not winning main price I am only winning few other things I could buy normally nothing super though. What is difference between that and crown crates ? Why QQing about not winning grand price in lottery would be considered stupid yet people think QQing about crown crates is ok ?

The dinner used to be buyable in your example. Then it got pushed exclusively into the lottery.

witchdoctor · March 2018

Recremen wrote: »

witchdoctor wrote: »

woufff wrote: »

The problem for me with all these kind of crates, boxes etc. in online games is that there is no official information about the chances to win the big price. In any official lottery there is a legal obligation to publish theses chances to win, in crown crates there is not (yet!) such information (as far as I know) published officially.

I'm fine to risk my money when I know my chances

And therein lies the rub: you don't have to take any chances. There is absolutely nothing in the Crown Crates that is needed to play, or 'win,' ESO. Nothing.

You also don't have to play end-game content to consider yourself as having "won" the game. Maybe player goals in an MMO are individualized and skating by on "but it's not P2W!" is an outdated excuse for adding gambling into an otherwise upstanding game.

Sure, we all have different goals. What then is the goal being barred by the Crown store? Collecting every mount?

Frankly, if I 'am skating by' on pointing out how it isn't P2W; then you are surely 'skating by' on its 'gambling.'

Juhasow · March 2018

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

because buying a chance to get something sucks, and buying something directly and you know you will get the product is a good deal

Ok so let's say I am buying 100 lottery tickets where the main price is (just as an example) dinner with a fauvorite actor in any restaurant I want , a thing I cannot buy anywhere I can only win this. I am not winning main price I am only winning few other things I could buy normally nothing super though. What is difference between that and crown crates ? Why QQing about not winning grand price in lottery would be considered stupid yet people think QQing about crown crates is ok ?

The dinner used to be buyable in your example. Then it got pushed exclusively into the lottery.

Nope the dinner was never used to be buyable. The dinner is equivalent of radiant apex mounts the only thing You cant buy because other things starting from apex mounts can be obtained through the gems. Yes some of this things was present in the crown store months or years ago but this is actually good zenimax is bringing them back. Keepinmg all that things in the store and adding just new would be stupid. Personally I would't like to see at some point crown store with 2 thousand items in it.

Cpt_Teemo · March 2018

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uWL1O9r_mI

Lord-Otto · March 2018

Juhasow wrote: »

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Juhasow wrote: »

aliyavana wrote: »

because buying a chance to get something sucks, and buying something directly and you know you will get the product is a good deal

Ok so let's say I am buying 100 lottery tickets where the main price is (just as an example) dinner with a fauvorite actor in any restaurant I want , a thing I cannot buy anywhere I can only win this. I am not winning main price I am only winning few other things I could buy normally nothing super though. What is difference between that and crown crates ? Why QQing about not winning grand price in lottery would be considered stupid yet people think QQing about crown crates is ok ?

The dinner used to be buyable in your example. Then it got pushed exclusively into the lottery.

Nope the dinner was never used to be buyable. The dinner is equivalent of radiant apex mounts the only thing You cant buy because other things starting from apex mounts can be obtained through the gems. Yes some of this things was present in the crown store months or years ago but this is actually good zenimax is bringing them back. Keepinmg all that things in the store and adding just new would be stupid. Personally I would't like to see at some point crown store with 2 thousand items in it.

The Dro-M'Athra Senche is quite obviously the earlier equivalent to the Shadowrider Senche, just in blue. It was sold for a very steep 40 bucks, and the people who bought it really enjoy it. The Shadowrider is radiant now. No one has it, no one enjoys it. Pre-crates, this would have been a weekend-exclusive. But now, ZOS are simply p***ing everyone off.

Radinyn · March 2018

Only cosmetics and consumambles, nothing bad, nothing good. They are ok and if they support my favourite game I'm happy with them.

Dracofyre · March 2018

crown crates may not be around very soon, congress at Washington DC will make a new law on "RNG boxes" on several online games, they are trying to ban "gambling" boxes and could force many companies to pay fines.
reasons....
1. too many kids with no CC, or steal parents CC to use, or in some areas, underages are not allow to participate "gambling" activities. i admit my nephew did stole his older brother's CC that was saved up for buying a car for work, took him more than 6 months to recover all the order made.
2. to curb any online games that use boxes as gambling, to get big cut for taxes or something too greedy.
3. people with nasty habit of gambling history.

if the law get pass, we might not see anymore gambling boxes, no more buying the keys (other online games), or use of other means of real cash to throw away to get "lucky".

rfennell_ESO · March 2018

For anyone with issue regarding "crowns" and what they buy for being a cash store...

It's really not that bad in implementation in eso.

You could give Destiny 2 a try with their version being voiced by Claudia Black and a character at your home base that you mostly can't avoid. "She" also sells certain things that you mostly can't live without and can't get in game normally past the fact you can generate the currency in game over time. It's in your face and not so optional to deal with...

For the most part you can have played eso since beta and never once dealt with the crown store or crates and it wouldn't really matter much.

Do I think creating additional "revenue" streams in game past your game is crappy? Sure. But the implementation by ZOS is non invasive and non important enough for it to be tolerable.

Really the only thing I can't see you being able to live without isn't in the cash grab store and that's the bank space and crafting bag from eso plus.

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Dracofyre wrote: »

crown crates may not be around very soon, congress at Washington DC will make a new law on "RNG boxes" on several online games, they are trying to ban "gambling" boxes and could force many companies to pay fines.
reasons....
1. too many kids with no CC, or steal parents CC to use, or in some areas, underages are not allow to participate "gambling" activities. i admit my nephew did stole his older brother's CC that was saved up for buying a car for work, took him more than 6 months to recover all the order made.
2. to curb any online games that use boxes as gambling, to get big cut for taxes or something too greedy.
3. people with nasty habit of gambling history.

if the law get pass, we might not see anymore gambling boxes, no more buying the keys (other online games), or use of other means of real cash to throw away to get "lucky".

I have a sneaking suspicion this proposed "law" will never pass or at least not in a "strong" form. This is one of those things that it sounds really good on a lawmaker's resume. Then reality (and lobbying) hit.

Besides, lot of serious stuff going on in the US just now and gaming probably isn't taking much of a focus.

xXSilverDragonXx · March 2018

The biggest reason I personally believe is because they know that the majority of their players are not hardcore players that want to grind out endgame content. In fact, if you are in several guilds and pay attention, you will realize that the vast majority of this game are not concerned with being the best but rather with some variation of TES, skyrim, morrowind type experiences. Sure some may progress on to more difficult content, but it's not really a large percentage. The larger percentage of this game's players care far more about housing, storage, mounts, costumes and housing as witnessed by how much time they have dedicated to bringing this type of content to you for the last 1.5 year often at a hefty price and now locking it behind more types of paywalls (crown crates). It's a kind of sucker punch with crappy justification. 'Oh you don't have to pay to win!' and the reply from most players would be, "I don't care about winning. I want my damn mount. That's part of the fun for me.'

Fact is, people still want those immersions, those toys, those things that give them TES not-MMO. That is a huge chunk of their player base whether they have the balls to admit it or not. This is evident by how many people start this game and don't last very long (weeks to a few months) before they disappear into the great void sometimes never returning or only after many months or years. So to lock the specific kinds of content that a majority of players want and would buy outright anyway without crates behind a greedy wall of RNG BS sort of makes them jerks in my book. It's kind of like the craft bag. They know the majority of people would love this kind of inventory management because they are hoarders and like this kinds of stuff. But they lock it behind its own type of paywall. But seriously? It's in game inventory management. Paying for it is somewhat insane. Sure we can say we are supporting them yada yada yada or we are paying for the servers yada yada yada, but really we aren't. We are paying for the storage or whatever else they give us with the sub but the sub is usually bought only because of things we want access to like the craft bag. I mean what else does it offer? Sure they need to make money but then hey well, make more actual gaming content! I know it's a novel idea. But how do all the other game creators survive? They keep making new games and make their millions off of that and the DLC they provide with it. Same here. No different. They have just found ways to gouge the players for being exactly the kind of players they are - TES fans through and through mainly.

And you can bet your last dollar that if a new TES game came out next year, droves of players would dump this and head there! Why? Because for many, that is the experience they really want and they come here because that is all they can have. Why do you think Todd Howard is very blunt about there not being another TES anywhere on the horizon? Because this is it. And so yeah, if you want those fun items that in particular PC gamers would get free through mods in a SP game, now you have to gamble your bucks away instead.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · March 2018

witchdoctor wrote: »

Sure, we all have different goals. What then is the goal being barred by the Crown store? Collecting every mount?

For some people yes. Some people want all the wolf mount variants. Others want a cat pet that looks like their real life cat. Some have a particular character concept that's, say, fire-themed, and a Fire Atronach mount would have been an excellent fit. All of these people are being forced to gamble for a chance at meeting their goals.

I don't see why it's okay to make those people pay arbitrarily high prices for the things they want when it's not okay to make the people who want the most pluses to their stats pay arbitrarily high prices for the things they want. EVERYONE should be treated fairly.

Vizier · March 2018

Everyone has a right to make a profit and they should be able to charge what the market can bear without too much criticism...but...that's a far cry from putting content that used to be come free with patches or at least complete with expansions behind a paywall mechanism that preys, feeds on and develops addictive compulsive behaviors in an impressionable client base. It's gambling in every sense of the word. Loot boxes are organized EXACTLY in the same fashion as slot machines with the same hooks and rewards. Gambling is an incredibly destructive behavior for most people that pick it up. Lootboxes are a gateway to that world at best. The lootbox trend the industry is no different than what big tobacco did for years.

Lootbox items should ALL be available for purchase in the crown store and crown store items should all have an option of paying with in game money.