Leveling by grinding is really punihsing in this game :(

kamimark · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

In every other MMO or RPG I played max level is max level, you have access to all max level skills and whether you have to make choices of what to pick or you get them all they are there.
What is very annoying and tedious about ESO is that grinding you way to max level leaves you so far behind on skill trees and skill points etc. Yes the story and the quests and exploration can be fun the first time you do them, but by the third character it really become a chore that you must do that makes maxing out your character take much longer than any other MMO.
…

Questing isn't grinding; these words have meanings. If you want to get skills on a new character, you can either do quests and collect skyshards, or grind (kill mobs in one area repeatedly like a machine), or stay with one character if you lack the fortitude to do either.

I got my Warden to level 50, max crafting skills, and most of my weapon & class skills by questing and getting open world skyshards in 2 weeks from early access, and while I play a lot, it's not full-time. There are much faster ways to level than I did.

I don't know of any MMO that makes all your characters max level when you get one to max level; ESO is the closest to that with Champion Points being account-wide, and I'd rather that it wasn't like that. WoW lets you/makes you pay $20 or so to reach level 100 and then finish levelling, per character. Every other game just has you level up from 1.

maboleth · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Yes the story and the quests and exploration can be fun the first time you do them, but by the third character it really become a chore that you must do that makes maxing out your character take much longer than any other MMO.

How can it be boring? There's literally thousands and thousands of quests. Main quest and guild quests aside (as everyone's experience is the same), more importantly, there's 3 faction quests. If you follow them like a story, there's a three HUGE story lines. I can't believe you did all 3 with your 3 characters? Not to mention the DLCs - what about marvelous quests in Wrothgar? Or TG? Or DB? Imperial City? Or now - Morrowind?
PLENTY of quests to see and level up and never do any grinding for the sake of grinding or repetition.

Dracindo · June 2017

Why would you create a new character, if you can't start from 0? I love watching low numbers get high, that feeling that you've gotten alot of things done in an hour is just fantastic.

Also, you start out having no idea who you were and how you've spent your life before you entered the world of Tamriel. I don't think a guy like that would know how to call down a meteor. By luck, and only once? Yes, but everytime the ult is ready, having full control over how to cast it? No.

Skjoldur · June 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Don't worry! Coming soon to the crown store Skyshard Finders! For a mere 500 crowns! once these finders are released, they seek out and bring back to you 3 random Skyshards!

It isn't P2W it is pay for convience!

Ok maybe I made that up... I hope I made that up.... oh crap I never should have posted this...

Actually, I was going to say something similar...

F7sus4 · June 2017

Those kind of topics are usually made by players having 5+ characters (and they even don't regurarily play all of them later).

Bigevilpeter · June 2017

maboleth wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Yes the story and the quests and exploration can be fun the first time you do them, but by the third character it really become a chore that you must do that makes maxing out your character take much longer than any other MMO.

How can it be boring? There's literally thousands and thousands of quests. Main quest and guild quests aside (as everyone's experience is the same), more importantly, there's 3 faction quests. If you follow them like a story, there's a three HUGE story lines. I can't believe you did all 3 with your 3 characters? Not to mention the DLCs - what about marvelous quests in Wrothgar? Or TG? Or DB? Imperial City? Or now - Morrowind?
PLENTY of quests to see and level up and never do any grinding for the sake of grinding or repetition.

Actually I did it with 6 not 3 characters, some with grinding some with questing. I didnt do all 3 zones and dlc etc. except with one character, I did different zone quests with diff characters depending on alliance. In the end doing it with 1 char is like doing them with 50. When I hit 50 i just want to get gear and do end game and the skill points and trees are very hindering. I need to put skills on the wrong bars or ones that are just needed to level a tree and ruin my gameplay.

MLGProPlayer · June 2017

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

Don't worry! Coming soon to the crown store Skyshard Finders! For a mere 500 crowns! once these finders are released, they seek out and bring back to you 3 random Skyshards!

It isn't P2W it is pay for convience!

Ok maybe I made that up... I hope I made that up.... oh crap I never should have posted this...

I'd pay for it.

MLGProPlayer · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Sigma957 wrote: »

Leveling a character is not really a big deal you can go as slow or as fast as you want, the biggest pain in the a@#$ is leveling the mages guild skill line in getting all those lore books.

Well that is cause you are a magika character, to Stamina characters leveling fighters guild is also a mega pain along with trying to get vigor and caltrops for PvE players or PvP players getting undaunted.

That is not even considering the gear grind, but i guess this should be fair if RNG was a bit better.

In general this game is the most pain getting a character to competitiveness compered to other MMOs.

Fighters guild is the easiest skill line to level in the game. All the best grind spots have you killing undead, which means your fighters guild will be max level long before your character even reaches level 50.

Enderus · June 2017

Simple solution? Get a Fiord's Legacy set and run your way to skill-point freedom! (I've been recycling a lowbie set for a few alts actually)

Mount speed is kind of a nuisance though, I'll agree. I'm just not sure what a better approach would be, in terms of making those upgrades more readily/quickly available.

Jitterbug · June 2017

Vvardenfell took my Warden to 30.
MQ, FG, MG, and some public dungeons, dolmens, and undaunted dungeons took her to 48.. still a little bit to go, but hasn't felt grindy at all. Plus, I'm at 8 FG, 5 MG, and 4 UD (again, no proper grinding involved).

Melilotta · June 2017

From my experience with my younger characters, Cyrodiil is great for skyshards, and after that, if you do all the public dungeons with their skyshards and group events, you get lots of skill points. If you still need more, there are delves with skyshards, very easy to find.

Bigevilpeter · June 2017

Jitterbug wrote: »

Vvardenfell took my Warden to 30.
MQ, FG, MG, and some public dungeons, dolmens, and undaunted dungeons took her to 48.. still a little bit to go, but hasn't felt grindy at all. Plus, I'm at 8 FG, 5 MG, and 4 UD (again, no proper grinding involved).

Well Vvardenfell is new so doing its quests are actually nice, but all Vvardenfel main quests got me from 1-10 then I left and came back and leveled from 26-29, I don't know how it got you to 30.

However even after you got all that from Vvardenfell you will go and repeat the main story quests and the guild quests and the zone quests. I don't know how many times you did them before but I did them 6 times now, so yeah it gets boring.

Beardimus · June 2017

The problem is grinding in itself, just don't do it. If you short cut, you can't complain at the game for you missing out on things..

TheShadowScout · June 2017

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

What is very annoying and tedious about ESO is that grinding you way to max level leaves you so far behind on skill trees and skill points etc.

I consider that one of its best features. Fu... uhm... forget abot the grinders!

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Yes the story and the quests and exploration can be fun the first time you do them, but by the third character it really become a chore that you must do that makes maxing out your character take much longer than any other MMO.

Nah. It is a good thing that you have a lot of gaming to do if you really want to "max out" your character. Rather then max it in a week, get bored in another, and wander off.
And yes, it can become a bit of a chore... if all you focus on is the goal. Those who are smarter and just enjoy the road, playing the game at a leisurely pace, and never worrying about when their character will be "maxed out" have it much easier...

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

I really believe that at least the skyshards should be account wide once the character hits level 50 he gets all the skyshard skill points the account has, Also skill trees like fighter's guild, mages' guild, undaunted and alliance should be account wide.

While that still won't fix the quests skillpoints and the other skill trees that need to be leveled, this would be a huge quality of life improvement just like the account wide CP was.

We already have -more- account wide stuff then -any- other MMORPG I ever played with the champion system, and here we have the "gimme crowd" again campaigning for more still??? Shame!

In the end, if you feel its worth the effort, you put in the time, and if you don't feel like putting in the time, you just have to do without on this or that alt of yours.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

I know there are many people here who want everything to take longer for no reason at all, but you guys need to take it easy a bit, there are many other grinding and time wasting alternatives in this game so fixing this shouldn't ruin your life.

That's bul... uhm... not entirely accurate.
Nothing in ESO can "ruin your life" - but if they made all account wide, there was far less motivation to actually play the game.

Enslaved wrote: »

Only thing I would change asap is how morphs leveling works. We need to be able to change skill morphs on the fly, and all XP gained should lvl both morphs at once. This would reduce a lot of grinding time for mere XP and give us more time for a grindfest for gear.

No, we do NOT need that!
Having to make choices is actually a Good Thing! Since it means you have to think, have to decide what's important to yiu, instead of being easily able to tailor cour skills to whatever you want right now for maximum effectiveness...

Tandor wrote: »

...Once a player has done everything once he will have no reason ever to do it again and will either stay and complain about the lack of things to do or else move on to another game.

Well... there is one reason to do it all over again - see how a different class/setup does in fights that your first character has trouble with. Some go quite differently depending on class...
And of course... to see the different choices in quests outcome, though sadly that is not as diverse as I might have wished...
...
But yeah, in general, some people don't mind doing the same ole quests for the fourteenth time (we still find it mildly tenious, but we don't mind) to get their newest alt through the game... and others do and demand everything be handed to them account wide no matter how many alts they wanna make. And often have a "I don't give a damn for the questing, I don't give a damn about the work of the developers to make those zones, I just want to PvP, so gimme!" argument style...

F7sus4 wrote: »

Those kind of topics are usually made by players having 5+ characters (and they even don't regurarily play all of them later).

...and opposed by those having 14 characters like me and play them on a semi-regular basis...
Yeah, I'd benefit from account wide stuff, very much so.
I still oppose it, very much so.

At the end of the day, they have no reason at all to make anything more account wide.
They -might- add such options to the crown store though... just like riding training, or research times shortcut... there could be "Skyshard acquisition crystals" that give you all skyshards in one region at one go, or "guild sponsor contracts" that magically boost your guild levels, or "lorebook collections" that give you a full chapter of mages guild books, or "battlefield promotions" that raise your alliance rank... all for loads of crowns.
Would that make you happy?
I know I wouldn't be... but that is the closest you are likely to get to your "shortcuts"...

abelsgmx · March 2018

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

In every other MMO or RPG I played max level is max level, you have access to all max level skills and whether you have to make choices of what to pick or you get them all they are there.
...

What RPGs have you played? In Skyrim, you have to grind out skills to 100 or you can't access buffs. You can hit max level while still not able to unlock stuff in the constellation thingie. Perhaps you wrote this sentence on feeling and didn't actually take inventory of games you have played.

SWTOR, WoW, Diablo 3 those are the ones that come to the top of my head that have max levels.

SWTOR and WoW are the main competitors of ESO so I guess its a valid comparison, I dont know about guild wars havent played it yet

Diablo 3 (Paragon system) and DCUO (Something like CP) aren't level max now, need grind a lot too

(

DieAlteHexe · March 2018

Narvuntien wrote: »

Don't grind...problem solved.

What is the hurry? There isn't some super amazing late game you have to build towards. Okay fine you have done these same quests 12 times but I don't see how that is more boring than killing a million zombies.

This. I did the "grind" thing once and it was abysmally boring and I'll never do it again. Was pre-1Tamriel. Since then I just play the game and have no problem with speed of advancement.

Vahrokh · March 2018

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Narvuntien wrote: »

Don't grind...problem solved.

What is the hurry? There isn't some super amazing late game you have to build towards. Okay fine you have done these same quests 12 times but I don't see how that is more boring than killing a million zombies.

Both are boring, but one takes 6 hours and one takes 100 hours, its obvious people dont level by grinding because its fun.

100 hours?

I did not use a single XP scroll, yet I went from 1 to 50 doing starter zone + Stonefall + Shadowfen by questing. Hardly 100 hours worth of hard work.

FrancisCrawford · March 2018

Some thoughts:

Leveling a character to the point that s/he has enough skill points to be highly versatile is hard. Leveling to be fully effective for a particular role and type of build is easier.
Leveling SKILLS and skill LINES is helped a lot by enlightenment. You have 400K XP per day that can be gotten at 4X speed. It's easy to save a fraction of those for the characters who most need the help. E.g., turn in quests on the when you have enlightenment, with the gear and skills equipped that need advancement.
If you don't think that there are a lot of skill points that are fun to get, why are you playing the game? For most people, not ALL skill points are fun -- but there are a lot more skill points available in the game than most characters need.
Grinding to 50 is a lot easier during double XP events. So is leveling skills and skill lines post level 50.
You can buy XP-boost drinks, e.g. using gold that your other characters obtained. This helps with most of the ideas noted above.
Doing a single random normal dungeon during a double XP event can take you up 1 1/2 levels or so (especially if it's your first time in and you're hence also doing the quest).

DaveMoeDee · March 2018

Sakiri wrote: »

I've grinded two alts to 50 and had 0 issue with skyshards or skill points.

Do mq, guild quests, two or so zones of shards. Done. Takes a day, tops.

Add in skill books. On PC, skill books is so easy with an addon. I just knocked off the last two mages guild levels of a long neglected max-level alt yesterday running through zones grabbing books and any nearby skyshards.

Must be a lot more painful without addons.

I still need to level a few more morphs though. It is a little silly that I'm doing busy work like that to be able to do certain content with a 4th or 5th alt, but whatever. I would hate to sacrifice a sense of progression. I was fine with VR until they removed it. When they removed it though, I was pretty happy that my v8 (or 9 maybe) and v2 alts jumped to max level. I was happy repeating all base game quests to level back then, but am much happier now not having to repeat them on all my alts.

SugaComa · March 2018

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

In every other MMO or RPG I played max level is max level, you have access to all max level skills and whether you have to make choices of what to pick or you get them all they are there.

What is very annoying and tedious about ESO is that grinding you way to max level leaves you so far behind on skill trees and skill points etc. Yes the story and the quests and exploration can be fun the first time you do them, but by the third character it really become a chore that you must do that makes maxing out your character take much longer than any other MMO.

I really believe that at least the skyshards should be account wide once the character hits level 50 he gets all the skyshard skill points the account has, Also skill trees like fighter's guild, mages' guild, undaunted and alliance should be account wide.

While that still won't fix the quests skillpoints and the other skill trees that need to be leveled, this would be a huge quality of life improvement just like the account wide CP was.

I know there are many people here who want everything to take longer for no reason at all, but you guys need to take it easy a bit, there are many other grinding and time wasting alternatives in this game so fixing this shouldn't ruin your life.

Creating a new character if you have a one over 160cp should give the link option

This links them together so both share the same achievements, and as an added bonus overland content is ramped up to higher difficulty

Shantu · March 2018

I sort of agree with the OP. Leveling my second toon felt like torture at times. But he was a tank and took forever to kill anything

On the other hand, it helps to just slow down and smell the roses, so to speak. I still can't get into all the dialog and have this "tell me where to go to kill something" attitude, but slowing things down you get to see a lot of little things you pass up, particularly if you take up alchemy, enchanting, or provisioning, etc. And then you reach a point where to advance any further you have to get better, unless you like getting your butt kicked from dungeons. That's a different challenge altogether. My advice is build characters who's skills and abilities suit your interesting and playing style. And just try to have some fun

Still one of the best combat games I've ever played!

Sparr0w · March 2018

Sort of agree, not for the grinding an alt part as the base levelling skill points are sufficient for one build.

But skillpoints to complete all crafting trees & have a decent damage dealer without the need to respec each time you want to venture out in the world is a grindddd especially on console

Maryal · March 2018

Spending time to collect skyshards for your alt, along with leveling up your alt's fighters guild, mages guild, and undaunted levels can be annoying, however, it wouldn't be much of a game if everything was handed to you. You already get full use of CP points across all alts. This game is different than its competition and the ways it is different draw people to this game.

No game will be a perfect fit for 100% of the people 100% of the time ... if the things that bother you about this game outweigh the things you like about it, then this game probably isn't a good fit for you.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

@FrancisCrawford Leveling SKILLS and skill LINES is helped a lot by enlightenment. You have 400K XP per day that can be gotten at 4X speed. It's easy to save a fraction of those for the characters who most need the help. E.g., turn in quests on the when you have enlightenment, with the gear and skills equipped that need advancement.

that 4xp is just for champion points, not actual exp that goes for skills, they are 2 different things. so you gain nothing doing what you are talking about.

FrancisCrawford · March 2018

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@FrancisCrawford Leveling SKILLS and skill LINES is helped a lot by enlightenment. You have 400K XP per day that can be gotten at 4X speed. It's easy to save a fraction of those for the characters who most need the help. E.g., turn in quests on the when you have enlightenment, with the gear and skills equipped that need advancement.

that 4xp is just for champion points, not actual exp that goes for skills, they are 2 different things. so you gain nothing doing what you are talking about.

Have you tested that?

Edit: I just tested. You are correct. I've been wasting a lot of effort trying to schedule which characters used enlightenment. Oh well ...

MarrazzMist · March 2018

I cannot grind. After two hours trying, I’m super bored. That’s not the thing I want to spend my precios time on.

I started a new character to experience new leveling guidange. My ”starter land” is Wrothgar, then planning to hop on Khenarthis Roost, and other AD areas. All places where I haven’t been for a long time. Leveling feels fresh.

Dungeon are still fun in this game, and fighters and mages guild ok, when you can do them ar once, thus still remember what’s happening.

Agree with OP, grinding is punishing in this game. Not advicable, find another way.

Integral1900 · March 2018

Been here since launch..... well mostly lol... never saw any point in grinding, I do quests, dungeons, explore, craft, read books, the whole show. The cp just keeps piling up. What possible reason is there to grind? My latest baby charecter is chewing her way through the dominion zones and the skill points are pretty much keeping up with what she is unlocking through xp and that’s with just using gear that drops, she doesn’t even have training traits on the gear.

First and foremost you must remember that eso was never, ever meant to be a sprint, it’s a marathon, the journey is the whole point. The end game stuff is only there to keep the minority happy and give everyone else something long term to aim at, if you want a game in a hurry this simply is not it. It’s also why I love it

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO · March 2018

FrancisCrawford wrote: »

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

@FrancisCrawford Leveling SKILLS and skill LINES is helped a lot by enlightenment. You have 400K XP per day that can be gotten at 4X speed. It's easy to save a fraction of those for the characters who most need the help. E.g., turn in quests on the when you have enlightenment, with the gear and skills equipped that need advancement.

that 4xp is just for champion points, not actual exp that goes for skills, they are 2 different things. so you gain nothing doing what you are talking about.

Have you tested that?

yes. you can turn on exp gains with AUI or FTC, i forget which, there is always 2, one for regular skill exp and one for champion points.

see here

before exp

the exp gain, the lighter blue is champion point exp and the darker blue is skill exp.

after exp

as you can see the pre exp was 124,637, the exp gain was 621 and the amount at the end was 125,258. not 127,121, like it would be if want you say was happening.

Vanya · March 2018

You are punishing yourself if you Decide to Grind. If you want top end gear and nearly all of the skills ,you have to embrace the grind. I understand the need to complete and acquire all the skills , Surely but then ask yourself would it be far too simple to hit level 50 and end with absolutely everything? The players should put a lot of effort,time and energy to maximize the full potential and unlock the greatest power of the particular class.

That is reason why you should have the main character and stick to the main only, at least for my perspective. Coming from the Lord of the Rings Online and few other MMO's ESO is by far the Least Grindy MMO.

The Story and exploration is nothing, it goes rapidly. In comparison with other games , The Elder scrolls has least grind factor while providing superb amount of freedom,rich lore and incredible combat system.

As for Skyshards I disagree. If you wish to have multiple very powerful characters you are expected to put an effort even if is "tedious" or boring or draining which relatively is speaking of the game genre. The champion system seems overpowered, It shouldn't be auto assigned to other characters when you start the new character for example.

Huyen · March 2018

The biggest thing that is killing this game is the damn championpoints. I had to restart anew on the ps4, without championpoints or anything else. The grind after level 50 is real. First to 160 to equip decent gear, and then to at least 300 to get into vet dungeons without being kicked out...